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Getting the lead out, literally: U.S. Army plans switch to ‘green’ bullets
dailycaller.com ^ | 07/24/2013 | Michael Bastasch

Posted on 07/25/2013 8:04:26 AM PDT by kimtom

The U.S. Army is taking the expression “get the lead out” quite literally and switching to lead-free, environmentally-friendly bullets.

The Army’s Picatinny Arsenal is working on a “green” version of the M80A1 7.62 mm bullet, which troops are supposed to start being issued in 2014, according to an Army press release.

The Army has been looking to “green” small caliber ammo for some time now. In 2010, the Army switched to the greener 5.56 mm M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round. “The EPR replaces the lead slug with a copper slug,” said Lt. Col. Phil Clark, product manager for small caliber ammunition in the Program Executive Officer Ammunition. “This makes the projectile environmentally-friendly, while still giving soldiers the performance capabilities they need on the battlefield. So far we have eliminated 1,994 metric tons of lead from 5.56 ammunition production.”

“Thirty-two grains of lead are eliminated per M855A1 projectile, and 114.5 grains of lead will be eliminated per M80A1 projectile,” according to the Army.

The Army projects that the use of.....

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ammo; military; usarmy; weapon
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"this is what we've been asking for!!" A real effective fighting force: (sarc)

1 posted on 07/25/2013 8:04:26 AM PDT by kimtom
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To: kimtom

This of course will lower the ballistic Coefficient of the round making it less accurate and shorter ranged.


2 posted on 07/25/2013 8:08:09 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: kimtom

Will this double or triple the cost of Ammo ?


3 posted on 07/25/2013 8:08:38 AM PDT by molson209
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To: kimtom

Copper is expensive, why not use a zink aluminum alloy? Maybe a copper jacket over cast iron would work out better?


4 posted on 07/25/2013 8:09:51 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Remember Ty Woods? Glenn Doherty ? Forgot already?)
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To: molson209

Copper sells for several times more per pound vs. lead.


5 posted on 07/25/2013 8:10:04 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (NRA Life Member)
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To: kimtom

Not only is it stupid to seek green ammo ... but, even if environmentally-friendly ammunition were your cause-of-choice, lead bullets aren’t even near the top of the list. Don’t they use depleted uranium anti-tank shells and cluster munitions?

Good grief.

SnakeDoc


6 posted on 07/25/2013 8:10:53 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens)
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To: kimtom

If we started a rumor that all our bullets are coated with a pig-fat based lubricant, we would have to use a lot less of them


7 posted on 07/25/2013 8:11:36 AM PDT by Mr. K (4 election)
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To: kimtom
This makes the projectile environmentally-friendly

Insane.

I don't give a damn about another country's "environment" when they have done something, anything that draws our troops there. F'em.

8 posted on 07/25/2013 8:11:45 AM PDT by Ghost of SVR4
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To: kimtom

As long as the bullets incorporate a pork based lubricant, I’m fine with it.


9 posted on 07/25/2013 8:12:15 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: SnakeDoctor
Don’t they use depleted uranium anti-tank shells and cluster munitions?

Yes they do, and the eco-nazis, the pacifists and other similar riff-raff whine and cry about it.

10 posted on 07/25/2013 8:13:18 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: kimtom

Well in another green initiative, they are replacing Marines with Gays. Marines are defiantly not environmentally friendly.


11 posted on 07/25/2013 8:14:05 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: kimtom

The part of the military that has and deserves respect is the solder/airman/sailer.

The part of the military that deserves derision and scorn is the “leadership” comprised of rank and status seeking poorly educated politican generals and admirals - few, of any - who think of anything other than the latest politically correct move.

They - as their leader the Obamadork - are scum.

Pure scum.


12 posted on 07/25/2013 8:14:45 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: kimtom

Insanity.

War isn’t something where we worry about being “green”

How green was Germany when we finished with it, or Korea.

I wonder if the 1.6 Billion bullets ordered for the IRS, and Social Security administration are “green” They are for killing Americans not for the enemy.


13 posted on 07/25/2013 8:16:14 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: mountainlion

Not to mention the cost enhancement.


14 posted on 07/25/2013 8:16:33 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

They could replace the lead core with Fruit Cake DC has plenty


15 posted on 07/25/2013 8:16:58 AM PDT by molson209
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To: Mr. K

Good point. Let’s start that rumor about bullets being coated with pig fat.

We have seen people getting killed over false rumors that the Koran was flushed down a toilet. So let’s start this rumor, and give the Muslims something to think about.


16 posted on 07/25/2013 8:18:35 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Copper sells for several times more per pound vs. lead.

What do they care? It's only our money.

17 posted on 07/25/2013 8:21:57 AM PDT by RedMDer (When immigrants cannot or will not assimilate, its really just an invasion. Throw them out!)
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To: kimtom

If this is true, then why in the heck have all the governmental agencies from HLS to the IRS been buying up all the ammo. Are they going to chuck all of that into the Potomac now? So they can use these green turd bullets? You know this crap has been in the pipeline for a couple of years now.


18 posted on 07/25/2013 8:22:07 AM PDT by GoreFreeTN (Keep the change, I want my dollars back.)
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I use copper bullets for hunting. They work fine. But not because they're "green."

19 posted on 07/25/2013 8:22:53 AM PDT by Rio
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To: GoreFreeTN

HLS to the IRS been buying up all the ammo..”

green ammo is less likely to be effective against THEM!!!


20 posted on 07/25/2013 8:26:24 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: kimtom
The U.S. Army is taking the expression “get the lead out” quite literally and switching to lead-free, environmentally-friendly bullets.

Lead bullets are NOT the same type of lead say, in lead paint that people freak about. This is complete BS. It's a fallacy.

21 posted on 07/25/2013 8:26:57 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: kimtom
Combined with forced acceptance of (with harsh punishment for objecting to) open, declared homosexuality in the ranks, along with co-ed fighting forces putting women in combat, including on submarines, this is STEP NUMBER THREE in the ongoing process of literally and deliberately sabotaging our military so that it will lose thte next armed conflict.

I repeat: This is Step 3 of the deliberate sabotage of our military.

22 posted on 07/25/2013 8:28:20 AM PDT by Finny (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. -- Psalm 119:105)
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To: kimtom

So? I’ve known for the last forty years that the anti-lead panic was really to ban ammo.

For those interested, the FRENCH used solid bronze bullets about 100 years ago.


23 posted on 07/25/2013 8:28:27 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: kimtom

What’s next, GREEN Nuclear weapons? Geeez!


24 posted on 07/25/2013 8:30:46 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

It doesn’t matter anyway. When the o finishes there will be less than one hundred infantry men/women/its left in the Army anyhow...and they can throw their powder puffs at the enemy.


25 posted on 07/25/2013 8:31:17 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: Rio

I’m curious. What happens to a tree if a copper bullet lodges in it?


26 posted on 07/25/2013 8:31:28 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: mountainlion

I think what the military is doing is a mistake, and a waste of copper, but the Barnes bullets I use for hunting give up nothing to lead. The Triple Shocks, with the three recessed rings, get better velocity with lighter loads than conventional lead bullets. I also use lighter grain weights with the copper bullets to avoid over penetration, and to get good expansion. That probably wouldn’t be a consideration for military purposes.


27 posted on 07/25/2013 8:32:07 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Portcall24
.and they can throw their powder puffs at the enemy.

Or spitballs.

28 posted on 07/25/2013 8:32:33 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Agreed. An idiotic choice that will also affect performance majorly.


29 posted on 07/25/2013 8:32:49 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I’ve been trying to start that rumor for years with no success

Even tried to leak fake (but accurate) news stories

But it’s still fun to try


30 posted on 07/25/2013 8:32:56 AM PDT by Mr. K (4 election)
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To: Mr. Lucky

A copper-cored bullet has what plants crave: electrolytes.


31 posted on 07/25/2013 8:33:53 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: Venturer

Does anyone here think the Russians or chinee are concerned with “green” or a kinder gentler enviro encounter as they slaughter us? This is insanity defined. Under this kind of thinking, nukes are “environmentally unfriendly” ... no shiiite, buckwheat— war is, too!!


32 posted on 07/25/2013 8:34:57 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: dfwgator

When I was a little boy we used to take a wooden match, cut the head off and replace it with a needle. We’d cut cross slots in the other end and attach two little paper fins. We could make those for them to throw in place of grenades. As long as they said, “Watch out for your eyes,” as they did it.


33 posted on 07/25/2013 8:38:24 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: kimtom

Great idea. Copper bullets. And now all the meth heads will be stealing them to sell for their habit.


34 posted on 07/25/2013 8:38:44 AM PDT by llevrok (The American dream is but a catnap today.)
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To: kimtom; All

35 posted on 07/25/2013 8:39:00 AM PDT by gura (If Allah is so great, why does he need fat sexually confused fanboys to do his dirty work? -iowahawk)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
"...For those interested, the FRENCH used solid bronze bullets about 100 years ago...." And we know how successful they have been in wars since!! (sarc)
36 posted on 07/25/2013 8:39:55 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: kimtom

This means the end of lead bullets, and the start of civilian ammo costing 5x what it does now, based on the price of copper vs lead.

Hard to hand-cast copper.


37 posted on 07/25/2013 8:41:59 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: DBrow

Bingo


38 posted on 07/25/2013 8:45:21 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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Please Contribute Today!

39 posted on 07/25/2013 8:48:36 AM PDT by RedMDer (When immigrants cannot or will not assimilate, its really just an invasion. Throw them out!)
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To: DBrow
And, “green” (lead free) has nowhere near the storage shelf life of standard ammo. Absent lead styphenate to stabilize the primer, it goes inert. Great way to preclude ammo stockpiling.
40 posted on 07/25/2013 8:56:14 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: Portcall24

They will throw foul smelling used condoms at the enemy.

LLS


41 posted on 07/25/2013 8:57:37 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

How about tungsten? Heavier and harder?


42 posted on 07/25/2013 8:58:41 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: kimtom

Besides keeping the battlefield green, these rounds will also avoid lead poisoning of enemy combatants when we shoot them.

Rumor is the development of new “nerf” bombs.

New etiquette training will also be enforced such as no profanity by service people and scheduling appointments for drone attacks.


43 posted on 07/25/2013 9:08:43 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought
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To: mountainlion
"....making it less accurate...."

No, it makes it quite a bit more accurate. Using a bullet core that is essentially the same density as the jacket negates the consequences of jacket sidewall variations in thickness. Dr. Mann's "X-Factor" is thereby eliminated.

44 posted on 07/25/2013 9:53:59 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: molson209
"Will this double or triple the cost of Ammo?"

No. Only the bullet component of the ammunition has a very slight cost increase. That has very small effect upon the total packaged ammunition cost.

45 posted on 07/25/2013 9:56:59 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: School of Rational Thought

This is how our next war is going to be fought:

Chinese Soldier: Got any queens?
American Soldier: You homophobe... No, go fish.
Chinese Soldier: Fished a queen and he looks fabulous!
American Soldier: You are so silly. Like my khaki scarf? It’s Halston.
American President to Generals: Looks like Brucey lost Taiwan.


46 posted on 07/25/2013 9:58:16 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The reason we own guns is to protect ourselves from those wanting to take our guns from us.)
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To: Ghost of SVR4

Your position is very short sighted. The ammo is green so that it can be used domestically for training. It doesn’t make sense to inventory two different rounds.


47 posted on 07/25/2013 9:59:13 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Buffalo Head

Read up on Ballistic Coefficient.


48 posted on 07/25/2013 9:59:58 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: sprky777

????


49 posted on 07/25/2013 10:10:34 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: tumblindice

Yep. Idiocracy. We’re living in one.


50 posted on 07/25/2013 10:21:44 AM PDT by SargeK
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