Skip to comments.Hackers Reveal Nasty New Car Attacks--With Me Behind The Wheel (Video)
Posted on 07/25/2013 9:36:18 AM PDT by Crazieman
Stomping on the brakes of a 3,500-pound Ford Escape that refuses to stopor even slow downproduces a unique feeling of anxiety. In this case it also produces a deep groaning sound, like an angry water buffalo bellowing somewhere under the SUVs chassis. The more I pound the pedal, the louder the groan getsalong with the delighted cackling of the two hackers sitting behind me in the backseat.
(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...
EXACTLY what I was thinking.
Maybe I’ll just keep my ‘98 Maxima for a few more decades...
It was in Fast and Furious 6 too. To combat hacking they went old school and bought mustangs and chargers from the 60s.
Occam’s razor would seem to point elsewhere.
Our focus, and that of the entire auto industry, is to prevent hacking from a remote wireless device outside of the vehicle, he writes in an e-mail, adding that Toyota engineers test its vehicles against wireless attacks. We believe our systems are robust and secure.
A team of researchers at the University of Washington and the University of California, San Diego, experimenting on a sedan from an unnamed company in 2010, found that they could wirelessly penetrate the same critical systems Miller and Valasek targeted using the cars OnStar-like cellular connection, Bluetooth bugs, a rogue Android app that synched with the cars network from the drivers smartphone or even a malicious audio file on a CD in the cars stereo system. Academics have shown you can get remote code execution, says Valasek, using hacker jargon for the ability to start running commands on a system. We showed you can do a lot of crazy things once youre inside.
In the article it mentions wifi and things like OnStar but the car they’re messing with has the computer hooked up to the car via what they say is the diagnostic port but is probably the OBDII port so unless you see a guy in your car with his computer hooked up to it I probably wouldn’t worry about it.
They hackers say that that has already been demonstrated so they’re showing what happens once they are inside but that is a little disingenuous. I want to see them do this on a car going down the road next to me through the wireless connection.
Since my car has none of that they can’t do anything to me but they could do it to a car next to me and take me out.
Isn’t this like the Boeing 787 where the flight control systems and the passenger cabin systems are only separated by a firewall? That bothers me more.
From what I've read of the Person of Interest set-up, it's downright creepy and gives me a feeling that it's part of a campaign to desensitize you for the Surveillance/Police State.
Seriously creepy.You are being watched. The government has a secret system: a machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know, because I built it. I designed the machine to detect acts of terror, but it sees everything. Violent crimes involving ordinary people; people like you. Crimes the government considered 'irrelevant'. They wouldn't act, so I decided I would. But I needed a partner, someone with the skills to intervene. Hunted by the authorities, we work in secret. You'll never find us, but victim or perpetrator, if your number's up... we'll find you.
Season one opening voice-over by Mr. Finch
It's as dumb as a bank putting a chip with an antenna on a credit card and expecting not to get hit with a class action lawsuit.
Totally agree on the 787 issue.
Just wait until you’re required by the state to have a wireless connection so they can check your mileage when they implement a “tax-per-mile” system.
That way, when they don’t like what you say, or what not, they can make the car lock it’s doors and drive you to the police station for processing.
Gonna be fun when millions of driverless cars are on the road and some kid from Romania hits Enter and they all crash.
When it comes to 'Spooks' and 'Ghosts' and political intrigue , there is no such thing as coincidence .
Or ,.. they weren't legitimate "FBI"..
I specifically obtained a card without it. And I think I’ll stick with my old vehicle.
Hey, that’s what I’ve been considering...or a 60’s truck.
Also , there is the question of Hastings body being creamated against family wishes.. Under whose authority did that occur ? Too many coincidences ..
Need to get that Willys back to road ready after vacation. Have a case of probable stuck valves. Have to get that master cylinder swapped too.
Fun and games. We did all these things in test cars when I worked for an automotive supplier in the mid 1980s. Like these guys, we had to use a (much larger, heavier, slower) computer attached to the ECU module. They have it easy because they can just plug into the OBD2 connector and access the CAN bus that ties all the smart modules together. He even admits “we flooded the CAN bus with traffic” which is similar to when the hackers shoot a website down with DOS attacks.
Now if you want to believe any car is vulnerable to this kind of tampering by some nefarious means, that’s fine, you probably believe in global warming too because neither are supported by technical facts. There has to be a connection to the ECU bus, and most cars don’t have it unless you’ve got a diagnostic tool pluged in.
But as you consider your next car, think about how that neat Sync function or equivalent is now adding a wireless ECU to the vehicle, not unlike plugging a wi-fi card did to your old dumb non-networked laptop. Are there potential connective paths between the telematic and entertainment systems and the ECUs that control vehicle functions? Ask your dealer, I’m sure he’ll know ;-)
The only answer I can give is “maybe”. But one thing is for sure, if you don’t have that kind of wireless connectivity in the car, you’re immune, just like you’re not likely to get an internet virus if you don’t have internet connectivity. But what fun is that?
TWB And in this article, Hastings says he is on a ‘big story’.
Considering his recent activities, a ‘big story’ could be pretty big.
The article notes that the wifi problem has already been demonstrated, these guys are showing what happens after control has been compromised.
The comment about worrying about a guy with a laptop is silly. While a direct wifi connection to your car's computer would not leave traces, a Raspberry Pi computer + wifi could be connected to the data port and tucked under your dash and you'd likely never notice. And since the car companies are mostly worried about wifi penetration, the data port is the current weak spot.
If they can get my 65 jeep to drive itself via remote, maybe I will give in.
Realistically, I would expect it and any other non controllable vehicle to be seized, outlawed, or victim of an accidental drone attack.
Well done. The Feebs were wasting resources investigating Hastings to begin with as the Boston Bombers plotted with barely an iota of scrutiny. The Feebs convenient Johnny-on-the-Spot appearance at 4:30 AM sent the following memo:
"ALL WHISTLEBLOWERS BEWARE. WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE. ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. YOUR VERY LAST KEYSTROKES, 'HELP -- I'M BEING FOLLOWED!!' WON'T HELP YOU."
This is why we pulled your duplicate thread(s).
This reporter was reporting on the same story that thousands of other reporters were covering. It doesn’t make sense that he would be singled out to be assassinated, but all those other reporters are not. Also, the FBI is not known for its history of assassinations. They might have been investigating leaks, or something related to internal security, but they just aren’t one of the agencies that engages in “wetwork”. If you had said the CIA were investigating him, then this theory might at least make a little sense, but as it stands, it doesn’t hold water.
As for this: “A FReeper who lives in the area of the crash scene made mention that among emergency services
at the scene of the accident were a couple of “ FBI “ agents also there.
At 4:30 AM , .. and they were just passing by ?”
Sorry, but an anonymous internet poster is not really a reliable source. I wouldn’t give that notion any credence unless there is some confirmation.
Yes, but that article, if you read the whole thing, showed that none of those hacks would work on a “virgin” vehicle, that the hackers didn’t gain access to somehow beforehand. That access may have been by getting them to play an audio cd in the vehicle, or through a compromised diagnostic computer at the mechanics, but there had to be some setup work done in order for any of the hacks to work. They cannot just pick a random car on the street and hack into it wirelessly.
“Just wait until youre required by the state to have a wireless connection...”
Move to another state, problem solved.
Yes, I’ve seen that too, but it’s still not enough for me to get worked up about. Coincidences do actually happen, all the time. They only seem sinister when you have already decided that something strange is going on and start looking for them, treating them as bad omens.
Agreed that the FBI isn't known for assasination, or "wetwork "
That is why I put the acronym in quotes (ie: " FBI " ).
Well, get physical access (valet, car wash, etc), and attach an odb2 reader to a Wi-Fi (Raspberry Pi, $25) and then you’ve essentially enabled the mother of all extension cords.
I searched hacker. I did honest!
Of course it didn’t work. “Hackers” (as in the headline) does.
What does Occam’s point to in this case then?
Well, I could think of several simpler explanations for a late night car crash than “remote control assassination by government agents”. Reckless driving, alcoholic relapse, asleep at the wheel, mechanical failure, prescription drug interaction incident, mental health problems, etc. I don’t know which of those best fit this particular case, but I would want to rule out all of those options and more before I even thought about “government assassination”.
None of those examples fit this situation particularly well. Have you have seen a car accident? I’ve done 100+mile per day commute for more than 10 years and I’ve literally seen hundreds of accidents. I’ve only seen 2 car fires and neither were caused by collisions. When the overwhelming majority of even bad collisions don’t cause car fires why would you then think that the it’s logical that the collision was caused by a car fire.
Never buy a car made after 1980 if you have to buy a newer car, never buy a car made after 2001, or 1997 if you want a Cadillac...
Well, I could think of several simpler explanations for a late night car crash than remote control assassination by government agents. Reckless driving, alcoholic relapse, asleep at the wheel, mechanical failure, prescription drug interaction incident, mental health problems, etc. I dont know which of those best fit this particular case, but I would want to rule out all of those options and more before I even thought about government assassination.
I wonder how quick the gov would shut down a site that would publish how to remove the wireless circuitry from a car, to make it a truly stand alone car.
“When the overwhelming majority of even bad collisions dont cause car fires why would you then think that the its logical that the collision was caused by a car fire.”
Well, I don’t think the collision was caused by the fire, but probably the other way around, I think that is what you mean. It’s also true that in the vast majority of collisions, vehicles are not traveling in excess of 100mph, nor does the vehicle come to a dead stop from such a speed by hitting an immovable object like a tree. So, to judge one particular accident by a lot of other accidents that it is not similar to is not a logical proposition.
Is it rare for collisions to start fires? Under normal circumstances, yes. However, these were not normal circumstances, and it wouldn’t be rare at all to see a fire in a case like this where the vehicle stopped so suddenly that the engine was torn free.
Here is some info the conspiracy mongers probably won’t tell you:
“According to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), one out of five reported fires is a car fire. In fact, 18 percent of all fires takes place on a highway or other road and involves a motor vehicle.
· Also according to the NFPA, 33 car fires are reported every hour across the country, with one person per day dying in a car fire accident in the years between 2002 and 2005.
· According to the National Fire Protection Association, there were 258,000 vehicle fires in 2007 and 385 deaths. There were 1,675 injuries.
· There is a vehicle fire every 96 seconds in the United States.
· The majority (75%) of highway vehicle fires are caused by mechanical failures or other car malfunctions. However, vehicle fires caused by collisions are responsible for almost 60% of vehicle fire deaths. “
“I wonder how quick the gov would shut down a site that would publish how to remove the wireless circuitry from a car, to make it a truly stand alone car.”
Why don’t you publish the info and find out? I don’t think that they would bother. There are plenty of cars out there with no wireless capability, anyone can just buy one of those if they are worried.
Amen on no Cadillacs made after 1997...
I made the mistake of buying a 97 caddie only to discover that the Vortek engine, while a pretty awesome piece of technology, likes to crack head gaskets and eats oil like most cars eat gasoline. I hear they worked those problems out after a few years, but I am not buying another Cadillac just to find out if it is true.
I like it. I've been wanting to restore any of several late 60s/early 70s cars I wanted in high school, from when I got got my permit on, but never could afford.
At the time, they were usually beaters by the time we (and the salt) got them, but I still regret a couple that I had to let get away.
I've been trying to figure out a way to justify spending the money to buy/build a "new" old car and/or pickup and now I've got one! "But, hon, it's hackerproof! We need this car. Like the Winchesters."
If I can get physical access to your computer, it's no longer YOUR computer.
Now it applies to vehicles, too.
This fact alone points to a poisoning rather than some fanciful remote car hacking. Where was this man going at such a high rate of speed? A hospital could make sense. Don’t know the area.
It could be as you say, to desensitize US to the ever present, omni-eyed beast, like they have built in other countries. The machine seems to be a "good guy" and on our side, acting on behalf of life.
Is that because Finch is a good person and he not only programmed it for this watchdog function/purpose, his program is by extension also good?
We like to believe good outweighs bad, and it should, but what if society and/or that programmer is bad? Think of what all we're building now. Please don't misunderstand, I enjoy enjoy a good drone strike as much as the next guy, but we are seriously starting to creep me out.
I grew up reading/watching science fiction that is now reality, so I see that show as a warning, that this is now possible, no longer just sci-fi.
Reminds me of a joke: What is the difference between mechanical engineers and civil engineers?
Mechanical engineers build weapons. Civil engineers build targets.
Agreed. And seriously scarey. For this reason:
"You know what's wrong with scientific power?" Malcolm said.
Its a form of inherited wealth. And you know what assholes congenitally rich people are. It never fails."
Hammond said, "What is he talking about?
Harding made a sign, indicating delirium. Malcolm cocked his eye.
"I will tell you what I am talking about," he said.
"Most kinds of power require a substantial sacrifice by whoever wants the power.
There is an apprenticeship, a discipline lasting many years.
Whatever kind of power you want. President of the company. Black belt in karate. Spiritual guru.
Whatever it is you seek, you have to put in the time, the practice, the effort.
You must give up a lot to get it. It has to be very important to you.
And once you have attained it, its your power. It can't be given away: it resides in you.
It is literally the result of your discipline.
Now what is interesting about this process is that,
by the time someone has acquired the ability to kill with his bare hands,
he has also matured to the point where he won't use it unwisely.
So that kind of power has a built-in control.
The discipline of getting the you so that you won't abuse it.
But scientific power is like inherited wealth: attained without discipline.
You read what others have done, and you take the next step.
You can do it very young. You can make progress very fast.
There is no discipline lasting many decades.
There is no mastery: old scientists are ignored.
There is no humility before nature.
There is only a get-rich-quick, make-a-name-for-yourself-fast philosophy.
Cheat, lie, falsify--it doesn't matter. Not to you, or to your colleagues.
No one will criticize you. No one has any standards.
They all trying to do the same thing: to do something big, and do it fast.
"And because you can stand on the shoulders of giants, you can accomplish something quickly.
You don't even-know exactly what you have done, but already you have reported it; patented it, and sold it.
And the buyer will have even less discipline than you. The buyer simply purchases the power, like any commodity.
The buyer doesnt even conceive that any discipline might be necessary.
Hammond said, "Do you know what he is talking about?"
"I haven't a clue" Hammond said.
Ill make it simple" Malcolm said.
"A karate master does not kill people with his bare hands. He does not lose his temper and kill his wife.
The person who kills is the person who has no discipline no restraint,
and who has purchased his power in the form of a Saturday night special.
And that is the kind of power that science fosters, and permits.
And that is why you think that to build a place like this is simple."
"It was simple," Hammond insisted.
'Then why did it go wrong?"
--from Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton. New York: Ballantine Books, 1990, pp.305-307.
As I mentioned I have seen car fires but most of them are not caused by collisions and even in very bad collisions, including where engines are ripped apart fires are not common. There is more to this than just a suspicious fire though, this is a person that said that he was being investigated for a big story he was about to break. Added to that, the city decided to cremate the body despite the families formal request for a autopsy. When taken at face value this seems like an unlikely set of coincidences.
One time is an accident.
Two times is a coincidence.
Three times is a pattern.
Four times is a trend.