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High-tech and Humanity: 'English Majors Are What We're Looking For'
Townhall.com ^ | July 26, 2013 | Suzanne Fields

Posted on 07/26/2013 10:40:44 AM PDT by Kaslin

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To: tacticalogic

We use Quest Active Roles Server here (I’m an AD engineer), and the AD management plugins are really awesome compared to just the ActiveDirectory import module for PS. I spend most of my days scripting in PowerGUI to automate processes in ARS.

Good to know there are FReepers out there doing the same stuff.


51 posted on 07/26/2013 12:23:32 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: dfwgator

“Good code is its own best documentation.”

Good code to a certain point is good documentation however, since every programmer has his own style, it is good manners to comment your logic and why you built it that way. Otherwise you are just a rent-seeking punk looking to make yourself indespensible ans the master of black-box spaghetti code. Just saying.


52 posted on 07/26/2013 12:28:36 PM PDT by WMarshal (Free citizen, never a subject or a civilian)
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To: ken in texas

And then there was code documentation. The engineers programming the company’s products had standards to follow, and code reviews to attend. On the lower floor of the building, the IT engineers, mostly by the time I left Indians, immune to all layoffs, even more so than the few blacks who worked there, these guys didn’t have to do chit, and didn’t, not a single word of documentation in their Java and SQL code, and their (white) management didn’t care, resisted calls for standards, disdained talk of code reviews. I was in those respects lucky, working in IT but coding for Engineering, having to document my perl code, and going through code reviews with the Engineering group which also produced software for Engineering, a weird arrangement, having to do with competing personnel budgets and other such political nonsense.


53 posted on 07/26/2013 12:30:59 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: rarestia
I'll use the Quest stuff from the console, but try to avoid 3rd party requirements for scripting. I've used PowerGUI in the past, but switched to the ISE with V3, which is much better than V2.

Hated to see them lose Kirk Munro from the team at Quest. Has support and development suffered any for being acquired by Dell?

54 posted on 07/26/2013 12:31:36 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

He probably had to take more history classes then barber classes


55 posted on 07/26/2013 12:36:03 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: cdcdawg

And bean abel two cummyunikate is kinder overrrrraited anyways, doncha think?


56 posted on 07/26/2013 12:36:18 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: a fool in paradise; Slings and Arrows

Rachel Jeantel has a better chance of getting into a law school (as she’s planning to do) obtaining her masters degree in English than in Rocket Engineering!


57 posted on 07/26/2013 12:39:18 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: IronJack

Are you series? Its a hugh deal.


58 posted on 07/26/2013 12:49:48 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: Revolting cat!
And then there was code documentation.

LOL... I remember being told many years ago that properly written code was self documenting and did not need comments.

I occasionally cranked out some very elegant code, with comments, but when looking at it some years later I often wondered "what on earth was I thinking that day?" Everything makes great sense at the time, not so much after a year or two.

59 posted on 07/26/2013 12:51:36 PM PDT by ken in texas (The Obama Excuse: They never told me and I didn't ask.)
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To: cdcdawg

....How hard it is too major in English? When its you’re fist language. Arts and cratfts magors is pointless.

How hard is it to major in English when it’s your first language? Arts and crafts majors are pointless.


60 posted on 07/26/2013 2:48:18 PM PDT by GunsareOK
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To: Kaslin
A half-century ago, 14 percent of college students studied the humanities, the reflection of the great ideas that liberated an imagination grounded in what Matthew Arnold, the 19th-century English poet and critic, described as "the best that has been thought and said in the world."

This is, to a large extent, no longer offered. That's the actual problem. Instead the Humanities major sits through diatribes about race, class, and gender.

61 posted on 07/26/2013 2:52:58 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: All

They need people that can read and write cursive.


62 posted on 07/26/2013 2:54:18 PM PDT by newnhdad (Our new motto: USA, it was fun while it lasted.)
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To: tacticalogic

Ugh... that explains a few things. Unfortunately Quest isn’t directly under my control, and I fear our systems suffer as a result. They use Quest to control user provisioning from Lawson. Other than that, they’re barely using the capabilities of the system. I can’t guess if the lack of utility of the system is due to the incompetence of the team handling the product or lack of support from the vendor, so I can’t say one way or another if support and dev suck.


63 posted on 07/26/2013 3:19:21 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Kaslin

I don’t need an English major, just somebody who can read and write English properly.


64 posted on 07/26/2013 3:27:16 PM PDT by FXRP
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To: rarestia

I’m working in a large corporate client’s infrastructure group’s offices. The documentation on that stuff is uneven, older stuff is often non-existent, and I have no faith that in 3-5 years when systems going in today need to be refreshed, anyone will know where the doc they do produce will be located.

It’s pretty interesting.


65 posted on 07/26/2013 3:50:22 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: PapaBear3625

I have a friend who was attempting to struggle through an English PhD at Auburn, and diatribes about race, class, and gender are about right, based on his reports. Plus he realized that as a white male he had no chance getting anywhere in the academic system in that area.

He gave it up, managed to transition into doing securities analysis, and is very good at it. His writing skills are a large part of the reason why.


66 posted on 07/26/2013 4:01:16 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: rarestia
Documenting a program’s functionality for a user is easy to export. Documenting domain structure, services, networks, storage configurations, standards, policies and procedures, etc. is not something that can be outsourced with any efficiency.

LOL. How quaint. You think the folks driving outsourcing care about efficiency? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dude, what have you been smoking? LOL

67 posted on 07/26/2013 8:37:34 PM PDT by zeugma (Be a truechimer, not a falseticker!)
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To: meadsjn
why the heck would they ever hire another illiterate, counter-productive American over a foreign coder who will at least try to read, write, and speak English, and work as part of a team.

I don't know. A lot of companies have discovered in recent years, that just because certain nationalities say "yes' to any question you ask of them, it doesn't mean that they have any idea how to do what was asked of them, or even the words coming out of your mouth. They'll say "yeah, yeah" all day long, yet comprehend nothing.

Of course, the "cheap" code they produced for you doesn't have any great relationship to what was requested of them, but that's OK, because it can always be rewritten, because it was cheap.

 

68 posted on 07/26/2013 8:47:41 PM PDT by zeugma (Be a truechimer, not a falseticker!)
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To: zeugma
I detest that ANY IT work is being out-sourced or off-shored, or that ANY foreign IT people are being imported under the pretense of doing IT work of any kind -- especially when millions of educated Americans with engineering and computer science degrees are unemployed or underemployed.

It is sad that American coders laugh at any attempts to educate them about concepts, systems, processes, methods, or whatever else that has been industry standard for twenty or thirty years, while they continue to build in their own job security with crap coding that is cheaper to replace than maintain. Same, same with American DBAs who are clueless about the purpose of a DB system. Same with PC techs, IT security, sys admins, etc., etc., even IT managers all the way up the food chain. Arrogant Americans, bragging about their own ignorance, and back-stabbing anyone who bothered to invest in a few years of education to qualify themselves to enter their field.

Right now, our company is spending $100 million on a system being built by an Indian firm that will likely put many of us on the streets. Yes, there's a lot of grumbling and worrying.

We have quite a few very competitive coders among our American staff, most with around three decades experience, but most refuse to acknowledge that any advances have occurred in the IT field since COBOL and VSAM hit the market. Most of them have never been on an application project team from start to finish, through every phase of the project, participating in every phase, as educated professionals should have done. They know how to compete; but they don't have a clue how to cooperate to conceive, design, build, and launch a system that will be worth more than it costs to maintain.

They have 20 to 30 years experience coding; entry-level, jack-leg coding; but they have and want the job titles and pay of educated IT professionals, and most won't even pretend to learn about newer technologies and methods. Even with company reimbursement, they refuse to get an education to qualify themselves for their current positions.

If the Apollo program had been plagued with this mindset, every single launch would have ended in the gulf stream, if they could even have gotten off the ground.

69 posted on 07/26/2013 11:45:40 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: zeugma

I’ve been involved in three outsourced IT shops, two mergers, and an acquisition. The bottom line is efficiency. Efficiency in operations is of paramount concern, and a fast handoff of responsibilities to the new bearers is the primary concern of any manager. The longer it takes to migrate those job responsibilities, the less payoff the higher ups get from the process.

If you can hire, train, and put to work 10 Indian or Eastern European workers for the same cost as one American, why wouldn’t you look to do so? That’s the very heart of capitalism, in my opinion: efficiency for a lower cost.

America’s business problem is her taxes. American-based corporations get put through the ringer around tax time, so much so that the larger ones, Hell even the mid-range corporations, need to have entire armies of financial accountants to keep the ship asea. With IT opex often being the largest chunk of a corporations budget, why wouldn’t they consider outsourcing to save money on hiring domestic workers who have a higher standard of living than those in burgeoning business economies like India or Mexico.

So yes, zeugma, I DO think folks driving outsourcing care about efficiency, because I’ve seen it and know how it works.


70 posted on 07/27/2013 4:14:35 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Romulus
If all you want is a skill, why go to college?

Griggs vs. Duke Power Co.

71 posted on 07/27/2013 4:22:01 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: cdcdawg
Are you series? Its a hugh deal

Ewe maye thing sew and eye mayy thing sow, butt it dont seam two mattur much too sum peepul.

72 posted on 07/27/2013 9:00:29 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: rarestia
So yes, zeugma, I DO think folks driving outsourcing care about efficiency, because I’ve seen it and know how it works.

Sorry, but everywhere I've seen "outsourcing" it's been a slow moving train wreck that is so important to the big executives because it makes their numbers appear better that they'll never admit what a dismal failure it is in every way because they plan to jump ship before it crushes the organizations where it has been introduced.

73 posted on 07/27/2013 9:23:25 AM PDT by zeugma (Be a truechimer, not a falseticker!)
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To: IronJack

It matters more two some then other’s.


74 posted on 07/27/2013 3:08:30 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: cdcdawg
It matters more two some then other’s.

Eye agrea. Butt ive allways thout awl that english stuff was a waist of thyme.

75 posted on 07/27/2013 3:10:31 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: zeugma

I’ve been through two “successful” outsourcing projects myself. The problem is exit strategy. Oftentimes executives come to leadership, specifically IT in my case, and state, “We need to offshore tech support to save money.” Despite every best- and worst-case scenario presented, they continue with blinders thinking that the end results will be dollars saved. I agree with you, MOST outsourcing projects go terribly awry due to poor project management, mismanagement of budget, failure to temper expectations, and poor relationship management with the new offshore team.

In the cases of success I’ve experienced, we worked (both times) with an outfit called TCS (Tata Consulting Services). They were very professional and eager to assist, and their workers spoke impeccable English. Most of our customers thought they were calling the UK when they got through to support. Additionally, they focused on expectations and set very realistic goals to accomplish the resolution of project goals. In the end, they didn’t save a large sum of money over what they laid out for domestic workers. Additionally, the management group (they tend to travel in packs) wound up leaving the company and leadership decided to hire more domestic workers in one of the companies.

Thankfully, the management types who prided themselves and their teams on effective and efficient outsourcing are starting to fade away. Market changes often dictate a faster approach to shifting winds in IT. What was long-term and slow to form in the late 90s is now fast-moving and rapidly changing.


76 posted on 07/28/2013 2:43:15 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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