Skip to comments.Coburn thinks defunding Obamacare is a horrible idea
Posted on 07/27/2013 6:38:13 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
Sarah Kliff: What do you think of the effort underway to defund Obamacare?
Tom Coburn: I dont think its achievable. A good portion of the health-care law is mandatory spending and repealing that would require two-thirds of the House and 67 votes in the Senate. I dont see that happening.
SK: An argument Ive heard from some of your colleagues in the Senate is that, if you oppose Obamacare, then the only thing you can do is cut off the laws funding.
TC: How many people are going to close down the government over I want to get rid of Obamacare? Ive lead the charge against it, and Im not going to do that. What I do want to do is able to be in a position where we can fix it later.
SK: But dont those run into the same problem as defunding Obamacare, that they would just be vetoed by the President?
TC: You cant defend letting rich businesses off and not letting individuals off. Nobody wants the medical device tax. And most of the American public thinks you should have to have the right income to qualify for benefits, and have that verified.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
The professional liars in Washington are endlessly creative when it comes to excuses for confiscating hard-earned citizen funds.
What I do want to do is able to be in a position where we can fix it later.
Why cut out the cancer when you can have so much more fun micro-adjusting it?
Ted Cruz - 2016
Coburn has been assimilated by the Borg.
“The only way you get rid of Obamacare is winning the 2016 election. Their worry is that if you get a bunch of people on free health care, you may not be able to do that. But I think costs are going to be so high that those who are not going to get the benefits are actually going to revolt.” - Senator Coburn
Uh, yes, Senator Coburn...it IS our “worry” that once the implementation begins repealing it WILL be impossible. If you, Senator, think this is a false alarm on our part, suppose then you enlighten us on which government boondoggles have been revoked after enactment. Hmm? YOUR own operating debt of the US is almost 17 TRILLION ... and counting. How many times EVERY YEAR do YOU keep telling us about WASTE in spending. Does your identification of such END that WASTE of OUR money? You have a Dept. of Agriculture STILL charged with providing phone service to rural farms. Has THAT ever been defunded??? Nope. If you gutless feckless Senators can’t find the fortitude to stop even the simplest government waste, you expect us to believe you will be forced by demand to revoke a program on the scale of ObamaCare...because it COSTS too much? As if what anything costs has EVER deterred you Feudalist Ruling Class Elitists in Congress from revoking it?? You’re an idiot to think we’d ever believe in something so laughably refutable.
The Oklahoma delegation to congress has been a big disappointment this week. Coburn said he was not going to seek another term. I hope he keeps his word because it is becoming obvious he has been turned by the GOPe.
One more sellout; one more reason to throw them all out; one more proof that we have a one-party dictatorship. Voting will do NOTHING to change Versailles on the Potomac. There will always be those who say one thing to get elected and then do another once they have power.
Arrest them all as traitors to the republic. They betray their oath every time they open their mouth. They consider US the enemy, when it is THEY who are the enemies of freedom.
And to the NSA trolls, FU.
Once upon a time, Coburn was in favor of term limits. Now he’s grown roots in his senatorial seat. Oklahoma conservatives should replace him in his next primary with someone who still gives a ****,
Why cut out the cancer when you can have so much more fun micro-adjusting it?
Senator Tom Coburn: the Micro-Adjuster for the Socialist State.
He isn’t running for another term.
With the IRS in charge of Taxation and Obamacare, the wealth and health of the LEGAL citizens of the United States of America will become totally controlled by corrupt politicians at the Federal level, IOW, we will be a Communist State.
We need to create as much civil disobedience as legally possible, because our sorry Congressional RINOs will not Impeach Obama for violations of the US Constitution, Anti-Trust Laws, Cowardice in the face of the enemy, or Dereliction of Duty.
Commie Obama will succeed ONLY if the RINO enablers allow him to do so.
Communist Tyrant B. Hussein Obama has no intention of allowing the US Congress to interfere with Obamas selective implementation of the Anti-Trust violations of Obamacare.
Those who vote to fund Obama’care’ are thus Communist enablers, pure and simple.
Commie Obama will use HIS Bureaus, HIS Executive Orders, and HIS Military to preserve, protect and defend his Commune-Style, Communist Obamacare in order to insure the complete financial destruction of The United States of America, and thus fulfill his first Inaugural vow to Fundamentally change the United States of America.
Closing down the Government is an excellent idea, It can do less damage that way.
Uh, yes, Senator Coburn...it IS our worry that once the implementation begins repealing it WILL be impossible. If you, Senator, think this is a false alarm on our part, suppose then you enlighten us on which government boondoggles have been revoked after enactment. Hmm? YOUR own operating debt of the US is almost 17 TRILLION ... and counting. How many times EVERY YEAR do YOU keep telling us about WASTE in spending. Does your identification of such END that WASTE of OUR money? You have a Dept. of Agriculture STILL charged with providing phone service to rural farms. Has THAT ever been defunded??? Nope. If you gutless feckless Senators cant find the fortitude to stop even the simplest government waste, you expect us to believe you will be forced by demand to revoke a program on the scale of ObamaCare...because it COSTS too much? As if what anything costs has EVER deterred you Feudalist Ruling Class Elitists in Congress from revoking it?? Youre an idiot to think wed ever believe in something so laughably refutable.
That’s good news for this muggy morning! Guess he has to get his creds in order to join the army of grossly overpaid lobbyists in his retirement.
Wow, what in the world happened to turn him so liberal? He used to be a dependable conservative vote, but now - who is this guy?
An Obamacare repeal threat is an existential threat to 0bama. He will not give in on this. There is no consequence we can threaten to impose on him that will affect that.
The only threat we have is to withhold funding. But 0bama does not fear that... he’ll just allow the gov’t to shut down until repubs cave - which they would.
With Senate plus Executive “in favor” of 0bamacare, the House alone can’t sway opinion to the extent that a gov’t shutdown would help.
If we had Senate plus House vs Executive it may be closer but I still think this is an existential threat to 0bama. He’ll shut it down until we cave and that is what he wants. He doesn’t care about how many lives he hurts - we do. We have the weakest position here and he knows it. It’ll make midterms problematic for us too - hence 0bama’s desire to pick the fight.
I don’t know the solution other than to win elections. Debt ceiling needs to apply lots and lots of pressure - don’t give him what he wants, give him less. Require that choices be made. We have the upper hand here because we have followed thru on that deal before hence the sequester. If the gov’t is funded - just not to the level that 0bama requests via debt ceiling increase request - he’ll have to find some places to cut back. EVERYONE understands that.
So using debt ceiling increase request has major advantages - we’ve previously “won” a similar negotiation and all Americans will understand our position b/c they’re in the same spot in their own lives.
In borrowing this phrase from Dr. Philips the author of the book of similar name, one was tempted to write, "the coming conservative crackup" but that would not be accurate. The Republican Party, not the conservative movement, is facing the crackup simply because the conservatives have nothing to lose and the Republicans have everything to lose.
In the conservative worldview the governing class in Washington operates roughly the same whether Democrats or Republicans are in control. Therefore there is no downside risk to conservatives in campaigning for conservative values. What is the downside? More of the same. What is the upside of a Republican/rino victory? More of the same. At worse, conservatives see Democrat victories only shortening a timeline to the same inevitable national disaster. Republicans only marginal value to conservatives at this point is that they might buy time.
But the Republican elite has everything to lose. Their objective, conservatives have now come to believe, is not to pursue conservative governance but to selfishly maintain themselves in office. That is why Republican elitists are appalled at the idea of shutting down the funding for Obamacare. Sen. Coburn, for example, fears that a shutdown of Obamacare funding will inevitably tip into a shutdown of the government generally. This need not be true if the continuing resolution is properly structured so that essential government services, or indeed all government services, are provided for except Obamacare-and inferring from Sen. Coburn's remarks, only that portion of Obamacare which is not funded by mandatory spending.
Red-blooded conservatives who frequent these threads do not believe that the elitists, Sen. Coburn to be counted among them, are right when they predict that a shutdown will redound to a disastrous Republican defeat at the polls. So, yes even if that belief is honestly held by Republican elitists like Dr. Coburn, what is fundamentally dishonest is that there is no real desire on the part of the Republican elite to repeal Obamacare, to close the border, to cut spending, or to rationalized the tax system. At best they will tinker at the margins and at worst they will act dishonestly as faux opponents of the Democrats so that they can appeal to the conservative base as saviors. These elitists owe their electoral existence to the threat to conservatism represented by Democrats and they will contrive to shamelessly appeal to well-meaning Republican voters on that basis.
Conservatives believe that without these reforms the Republic is inevitably destined to plunge over the fiscal cliff. Whether true or not, conservatives have now become convinced that elitist Republicans do not share their sense of danger. Many are convinced that the Republican establishment are too selfishly concerned with protecting their offices to do their patriotic duty.
So in this showdown between conservatives and Republican elitists, the conservatives have nothing to lose and the Republicans have all that they dearly value at risk.
It is probable that the elite will be able to beat off this movement to defund Obamacare in the upcoming continuing resolution. I do not see how they can do so and avoid a subsequent rupture in the party. The reality is, if only conservatives will embrace it, that the elitists need us but in the desperate circumstances in which honest Americans find themselves today, conservatives do not the need Republican Party. If John Boehner loses his speakership, will the Republic sink? If Mitch McConnell loses even more ground for his party in the Senate, will conservatism find itself even more beleaguered? We conservatives are already living the downside.
By way of full disclosure I have been a longtime opponent of any third party reform movement. I base this on a historical understanding of the American constitutional system with its winner-take-all system which in turn produces a two-party system. We have not had a successful splinter party since the Whigs and, ultimately, third-party breakaways serve only to hand power to the very party they most oppose. However, history tells us that when the issue was big enough, and in the 1850s slavery was a big issue, a breakaway party prevailed. Obamacare is a very big issue but probably not enough to galvanize the electorate. That will come as we are in freefall over the fiscal Cliff.
Here’s what Mark Levin said about Coburn. He said he’s too ECCENTRIC to be reliably ANYTHING. I think that’s right. Coburn can seem very conservative. But he prides himself on being very NUANCED. Very much in the policy wonk weeds. That is a poor combination. In any room Coburn would see himself as being the very deepest, most detail oriented, intellectually superior mind in the room.
He’s bogged down in the forest - unwittingly - because he can’t see the forest for the trees.
Levin used to follow his work and had hopes for him at one time.
Come Coburn, are you really going to support slavery?
Here's an open call to public interest lawyers: Why don't you attack the income tax on 13th Amendment grounds, that it equals involuntary servitude?
“Tom Coburn: I dont think its achievable.”
Nothing is achievable if you don’t try. Ask the American colonists who went to war against Great Britain. Ask Thomas Edison or the Wright brothers. Ask the men who held out at Guadalcanal or scaled the cliffs at Normandy. Ask the people of NASA who planned and executed the moon landing. Ask Dr. King. Ask Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Ask Barak Obama about passing health care.
America was once about trying the “impossible”. Today’s Republican leaders are not Americans in the traditional sense. They are protectors of conventional wisdom and their positions within the elite power structure.
If voting could change anything it would be illegal.
I prefer calling it Mordor on the Potomac.
They'll say that the 16th Amendment to the Constitution is by definition constitutional. They'll say that no one requires you to work and they'll say that you can live on tax-exempt income.
It ain't right (as in fair), but thems the facts, Jack.
And, in the meantime, the boycotters will probably live healthier, longer lives. Doctors kill as many as they save.
South, you are a patriot!
And I think Coburn is a horrible idea and a disgrace to Oklahoma.
I wonder who and how much he is being paid? He can’t need the money. Just more greed and power though he says he isn’t running again. For spinate at least.
Does this fellow know what he is talking about? If the government is funded except for Obamacare, then the government is NOT shut down.
In fact, the Democrats do it all the time. In 1987 they passed a law to secure our borders, patted themselves on the back, and then never funded that securing our borders. They just funded the amnesty.
Many border problems and illegal alien problems would be solved if the laws on the books were actually funded and enforced.
Sen. Coburn needs to enroll in a course entitled Political Science 101, or maybe he should just retire in disgrace. We desperately need lawmakers with common sense.
Just what has coburn done “in the closet” that nsa knows? All these congresslosers are corrupt.
This monstrosity was passed with a simple majority in a procedural move so I don’t see why an effort can’t be made to repeal it with a simple majority. Just keep pushing that angle and see what traction it gets. I’m only dreaming. There’s only a handful of real conservatives left and unfortunately see the communists getting everything their way. When have they not? and they’ll get the rest by the end of the usurpers term he’ll be ready. For exactly what?.. Maybe to sign that peace deal or covenant of death.
Tom sounds like a lot of people here on FR.
Nothing is achievable if you dont try. Ask the American colonists who went to war against Great Britain. Ask Thomas Edison or the Wright brothers. Ask the men who held out at Guadalcanal or scaled the cliffs at Normandy. Ask the people of NASA who planned and executed the moon landing. Ask Dr. King. Ask Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Ask Barak Obama about passing health care. America was once about trying the impossible. Todays Republican leaders are not Americans in the traditional sense. They are protectors of conventional wisdom and their positions within the elite power structure.
Amen. Without trying, losing becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Seems now that people would rather give up, rather than invest their emotions against long odds to try and change things.
I am so embarrassed I ever voted for this man. And I’ve done that more than once. Shame.
Yup...noticed that too.
Seemingly, the coward will only fight using Marxist arguments.
TC: If youre actually going to do that, and hold it, thatd be fine. The problem is that I know the strength of the backbone of the Senate and House, and as soon as the heat gets hot theyll fall like wet suits.
Tom blames his lack of backbone on his colleagues.
His argument is that 'he would be in if only everybody else was in'.
So nothing happens.
TC: Theyll never get the votes to carry out the strategy in the Senate. Its dead now. Theyre not going to target the votes. So the Senate will never shut down the government over this but that will create a problem. If they carry out this strategy in the House, either [House Majority Leader John] Boehner is going to have to make a deal with the Democrats to pass the CR, so hes going to have to allow a whole lot more spending in what comes over, and we are not going to do that.”
Since when does the US Senate have to agree to a spending bill BEFORE Obamacare is defunded? All spending bills MUST originate in the US House of Representatives NOT the US Senate. If the House refuses to fund Obamacare, there is NO longer authority to send tax dollars to fund Obamacare. The US Senate has no vote in this matter what so ever! Is Coburn actually telling the American people that is the Senate does not vote to defend Obamacare, the House can't defund it? How crazy is that statement!
The Republicans can stop ALL spending in the House, but elects to continue making deals with the liberals and spend, spend, and spend without end!
Coburn is desperate telling this lie to the American people!
i agree with you except I don’t think shutting it down will result in the defunding of 0bamacare. 0bama simply would die before he let that happen.
Shutting down is what 0bama wants. It takes ALL attention away from the advantage the Rs currently have - takes attention away from 0bamacare, away from Benghazi, away from IRS abuses, away from the economy. It’s what he wants and it’s easy to see why. Plus it would not result in defunding. 0bama will be happy to let America wither while he waits for Rs to cave.
The only thing that will work is repeal. So i think it would be good to vote but not good to shut down over it. Publicize the vote, offer plenty of ways around the shut down and publicize them too. But no shut down.
The danger I perceive in this strategy is that with time, it will be harder to get rid of it. But I don’t think this is quite time to go all in.