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Will Grassroots Conservatives' Effort to Defund Obamacare Also Take Out McConnell?
Conservative HQ ^ | 7/26/13 | CHQ Staff

Posted on 07/27/2013 7:42:45 AM PDT by xzins

The effort to stop the further implementation of Obamacare that Utah’s principled limited government constitutional conservative Republican Senator Mike Lee got rolling is starting to gather steam at the grassroots, with conservative commentator and talk radio superstar Mark Levin, the Club for Growth, Heritage Action and Freedom Works all weighing-in to support of Lee’s effort.

Yet the Senate Republican leadership, especially Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, have been using every behind the scenes tactic they can muster to spike the effort of conservatives to defund Obamacare.

This ain’t rocket science, all it takes, as Senator Lee observed, is for Republicans to vote NO.

"If Republicans in both houses simply refuse to vote for any continuing resolution that contains further funding for further enforcement of Obamacare, we can stop it. We can stop the individual mandate from going into effect," Lee told "Fox & Friends."

Lee’s key point is that withholding money from further enforcement and implementation of Obamacare and would not affect the portions of the law already in effect, including provisions on pre-existing conditions and children being able to stay on their parents' plans until age 26.

Lee’s goal – and it is one we heartily endorse – is to take-out the individual mandate.

"We're talking about the individual mandate, the exchanges," Lee said according to NewsMax. "That's what Americans are afraid of. That's what's causing premiums to skyrocket. And that's what we've got to stop through this effort of don't fund it."

"This movement is going to continue to build because the American people understand the president is not following the law," Lee said. "The American people shouldn't be required to fund it."

"We already knew that Obamacare was going to be unaffordable. Now we know it's going to be unfair as well because the president is rewriting it not just once, but twice, by telling us that he's not going to enforce the employer mandate, but leave individuals on the hook," as NewsMax reported Lee putting it.

What we don’t understand is with a broad coalition of Republican Senators behind the idea – from longtime Members like Chuck Grassley, to establishment leaders like John Thune, to “boat rocking” conservatives like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz – why hasn’t Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell signed on?

The reluctance of the Senate Republican leadership to draw a line in the sand and join conservatives like Lee, Paul and Cruz to stand against Obamacare is even more puzzling when one looks at the results of the latest CBS News poll on the issue.

The new CBS News poll found that more Americans than ever want Obamacare (the Affordable Care Act) repealed.

According to the poll, 36 percent of Americans want Congress to expand or keep the health care law while 39 percent want Congress to repeal it - the highest percentage seen in CBS News polls. The poll also found a majority of Americans - 54 percent - disapprove of the health care law, 36 percent of Americans approve of it and 10 percent said they don't know about it.

The poll also found just 13 percent of Americans say the health care law will personally "help me" while 38 percent said they believe the law will personally "hurt me."

Setting aside that it is the right thing to do for the country, those numbers are running two and three to one in favor of Republicans gaining a political advantage by fighting implementation of Obamacare.

No one knows for sure why McConnell, Wisconsin’s Senator Ron Johnson and others are opposed to Lee’s effort, because, as usual McConnell and the Republican establishment are operating from the shadows, using behind the scenes political pressure instead of actually engaging in an open debate based on conservative principles about the merits of the strategy to defund Obamacare, rather than the usual Capitol Hill Republican say one thing, do another culture.

Any Republican, starting with Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, who chooses to fund Obamacare should be primaried.

Republicans, by voting to fund Obamacare, are putting people out of work, driving up healthcare costs, and hurting families. Republicans are not listening to voters who hate the law if they fund Obamacare.

With 54 percent of those polled telling CBS that they disapprove of Obamacare and 38 percent saying they expect to be personally hurt by the Obamacare law, the advertisements in those Republican primaries, as Erick Erickson said, write themselves.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Kentucky
KEYWORDS: gopelite; kentucky; lundergangrimes; mattbevin; mcconnell; mitchmcconnell; obamacare; rino
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Follow the money is wisdom in many cases of political puzzlement. People like McConnell are somehow benefitting from ObamaCare either direct from their donors, lobbyists, etc., or indirectly in covert ways.
1 posted on 07/27/2013 7:42:46 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins

2 posted on 07/27/2013 7:47:17 AM PDT by PLD (-)
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To: xzins

If McConnell disappeared form Senate “leadership”, who would even notice?

He is always trying to find his men so he can lead them?


3 posted on 07/27/2013 7:47:46 AM PDT by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: xzins
The Coming Republican Crackup

In borrowing this phrase from Dr. Philips the author of the book of similar name, one was tempted to write, "the coming conservative crackup" but that would not be accurate. The Republican Party, not the conservative movement, is facing the crackup simply because the conservatives have nothing to lose and the Republicans have everything to lose.

In the conservative worldview the governing class in Washington operates roughly the same whether Democrats or Republicans are in control. Therefore there is no downside risk to conservatives in campaigning for conservative values. What is the downside? More of the same. What is the upside of a Republican/rino victory? More of the same. At worse, conservatives see Democrat victories only shortening a timeline to the same inevitable national disaster. Republicans only marginal value to conservatives at this point is that they might buy time.

But the Republican elite has everything to lose. Their objective, conservatives have now come to believe, is not to pursue conservative governance but to selfishly maintain themselves in office. That is why Republican elitists are appalled at the idea of shutting down the funding for Obamacare. Sen. Coburn, for example, fears that a shutdown of Obamacare funding will inevitably tip into a shutdown of the government generally. This need not be true if the continuing resolution is properly structured so that essential government services, or indeed all government services, are provided for except Obamacare-and inferring from Sen. Coburn's remarks, only that portion of Obamacare which is not funded by mandatory spending.

Red-blooded conservatives who frequent these threads do not believe that the elitists, Sen. Coburn to be counted among them, are right when they predict that a shutdown will redound to a disastrous Republican defeat at the polls. So, yes even if that belief is honestly held by Republican elitists like Dr. Coburn, what is fundamentally dishonest is that there is no real desire on the part of the Republican elite to repeal Obamacare, to close the border, to cut spending, or to rationalized the tax system. At best they will tinker at the margins and at worst they will act dishonestly as faux opponents of the Democrats so that they can appeal to the conservative base as saviors. These elitists owe their electoral existence to the threat to conservatism represented by Democrats and they will contrive to shamelessly appeal to well-meaning Republican voters on that basis.

Conservatives believe that without these reforms the Republic is inevitably destined to plunge over the fiscal cliff. Whether true or not, conservatives have now become convinced that elitist Republicans do not share their sense of danger. Many are convinced that the Republican establishment are too selfishly concerned with protecting their offices to do their patriotic duty.

So in this showdown between conservatives and Republican elitists, the conservatives have nothing to lose and the Republicans have all that they dearly value at risk.

It is probable that the elite will be able to beat off this movement to defund Obamacare in the upcoming continuing resolution. I do not see how they can do so and avoid a subsequent rupture in the party. The reality is, if only conservatives will embrace it, that the elitists need us but in the desperate circumstances in which honest Americans find themselves today, conservatives do not the need Republican Party. If John Boehner loses his speakership, will the Republic sink? If Mitch McConnell loses even more ground for his party in the Senate, will conservatism find itself even more beleaguered? We conservatives are already living the downside.

By way of full disclosure I have been a longtime opponent of any third party reform movement. I base this on a historical understanding of the American constitutional system with its winner-take-all system which in turn produces a two-party system. We have not had a successful splinter party since the Whigs and, ultimately, third-party breakaways serve only to hand power to the very party they most oppose. However, history tells us that when the issue was big enough, and in the 1850s slavery was a big issue, a breakaway party prevailed. Obamacare is a very big issue but probably not enough to galvanize the electorate. That will come as we are in freefall over the fiscal Cliff.

[This reply was just posted on a companion thread]


4 posted on 07/27/2013 7:51:23 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: xzins
“People like McConnell are somehow benefitting from ObamaCare either direct from their donors, lobbyists, etc., or indirectly in covert ways. “

This would not be surprising. Lots of businesses would love to not have to offer health care and push people into a government run system. Your health care is being ping-ponged between the efforts of ideologues and of special interests with economic incentives.

5 posted on 07/27/2013 7:51:43 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: xzins

What you say may be true, but we can’t really know that for sure. There’s no real investigative journalism by the big players anymore, so it’s also unlikely that we’ll ever have proof that Senator McConnell is benefiting from Obamacare.

Frankly, I don’t care why he’s not fighting to defund Obamacare. Does it really matter. It’s just like Senator Ryan and illegal immigration. He claims he wants an amnesty (he won’t call it that BTW) for non-political reasons. He claims he believes strongly that it’s the right, moral thing to do. OK. Fine. So what? Amnesty still sucks, and we need to oppose it. It simply means we have to elect someone else, because Ryan is not going to do what we want.


6 posted on 07/27/2013 7:53:09 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: xzins

Still, it’s a puzzlement that people are so willing to destroy the country for personal gain

I mean, we might not survive obamacare as Detroit shows, and for the same reason

But we can not survive illegalimmigration, not mentioning that the libs themselves wee the ones screechinh in favor of abortion for population control in th 1970s

But these people are a puzzlement as they swear to God Himself to protect the Constitution and He will ask them individually when they stand for judgment what thwy did with that. It’s NOT as if God doesn’t want our constitution protected, giving people a LEGAL refuge for religious and moral freedom

This life is 100 years at the most. Hell is eternity with no fu, money nor power

The puzzlement is the stark lack of logic that runs the lives of RINOs

Libs are mentally disordered and have an excuse for their lack of logic they are practicing pagans who worship licentiousness and abortion

The puzzlement is their enablers RINOs


7 posted on 07/27/2013 7:54:39 AM PDT by stanne
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To: xzins

I’ll have to take issue with this.

“Grassroots Conservatives” do not all advocate defunding Obamacare without a replacement ready to roll-out.

We do not have a current replacement ready to roll-out.

Until we have a current replacement (and not just a return to the previous mess) we have nothing, except the single most powerful issue against our side, which Obama has had yet.

Either FIX healthcare, or leave it alone.

Please we do not want back, what we had before.


8 posted on 07/27/2013 7:56:01 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: xzins

0bama will shut it down. He simply will not accept defunding. He would die first.

As long as Lee understands that and will play to it, I’m ok with this threat. When it comes to crunch time, just explain that 0bama is willing to shut the gov’t down and [insert random anti-shut down arguement] to save this monster of a law - that he is holding each American hostage by threatening to shut down gov’t to save the law that people don’t want. Explain that we are not going to hurt America by shutting down and that we’ll have to win some elections to get rid of 0bamacare.

But please don’t just play into 0bama’s hands and allow him to get repubs blamed for shutting down the gov’t. It’s plain as day that he won’t give in on this - so we shouldn’t go ahead unless we plan on shutting it down and for taking the blame.

We do have the upper hand on debt ceiling negotiations though - we’ve followed thru on our threat once already in those negotiations hence the sequester.


9 posted on 07/27/2013 8:00:50 AM PDT by Principled
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To: All
Republicans who don't stop this are helping Obama empower Planned Parenthood's savagery.

===============================================

Planned Parenthood Will Run Federal Data Hub With Private Patient Info
by Elise Hilton | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | FR Posted by smoothsailing

EXCERPT Enter the Federal Data Hub, w/ govt access to “reams of personal information compiled by federal agencies ranging from the IRS to the DOD.....navigated by an army of “patient navigators.”

The federal government is planning to quietly enact what could be the largest consolidation of personal data in the history of the republic,” Paul Howard of the Manhattan Institute and Stephen T. Parente, a U of Minnesota finance professor, wrote in USA Today. No wonder that there are concerns about everything from identity theft to the ability of navigators to use the system to register Obamacare participants to vote.

And….....it gets even worse. One group acting as “patient navigators” will be Planned Parenthood: Planned Parenthood is among the long list of…organizations that are expected to receive taxpayer-funded navigator grants. The navigator grants would further enable Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in America, to continue its misuse of taxpayer dollars to [supplement] their big abortion business,” said Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.), who says she wants to eliminate the navigator program — for which $54 million in funds will be made available — even without a Planned Parenthood link because it’s ‘ripe for fraud and abuse’, violations of privacy and identity theft.

The navigators will receive 20-30 hours of online training on the 1200 page Obamacare law, and some feel that isn’t enough, likening it to “giving someone a first-aid course and then making him a med-school professor.” In addition, some lawmakers say that the standards set by HHS could allow felons to access info----the entire system is open to fraud and corruption. House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan says this is a hugely under-reported story, and that the Data Hub is a “danger to civil liberties.” ......we can all say good-bye to the shreds of privacy we have left.

SOURCE http://www.lifenews.com/2013/07/25/planned-parenthood-will-run-federal-data-hub-with-private-patient-info/

10 posted on 07/27/2013 8:01:59 AM PDT by Liz
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To: nathanbedford

Interesting post nathanbedford - and I agree with it all but I think there is an omission that is important...

If the House writes a good bill just without funding for 0bamacare, 0bama will simply veto. He absolutely nothing to lose. First, 0bamacare is everything to him. He will not give it up. Second, Repubs will be blamed for the subsequent shutdown. So imo 0bama wants this to happen - he wants a shutdown. It’s about the only thing that can pull his party out of the low ratings they’ve got just before midterms.

However, if there are enough votes to override his veto GO FOR IT!!!!!


11 posted on 07/27/2013 8:12:28 AM PDT by Principled
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To: xzins

Let’s hope it does take McConnell out.


12 posted on 07/27/2013 8:19:18 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: nathanbedford

I was going to post some of this, but you said it all. BRAVO!

I will echo your sentiments to all the whiny folk who come on with this “GOP is dead to me” and “real conservatives should form a third party” etc. Our party is still there and it’s the GOP. The GOP is a grass roots organization and begins at the county level. Small government people selected as delegates in the district and state conventions will change the national leadership.

Please don’t send the RNC any money until it changes. That is fine. Take over your county by attending monthly meetings and voting in a bloc. Same for the district level. Then move up to the state level. We have been doing just this in Georgia, small government people uniting. The Liberty Caucus is working with Social Conservatives. The next election for state officers should do it! Libertarians are adopting pro life and border enforcement stances (without life, liberty doesn’t much matter). Social Conservatives are realizing the police state required to keep everyone sober will destroy the first, second, third, fourth and fifth amendments, and will soon turn into war on Christianity. The recent and ongoing NSA and IRS scandals are presenting a golden opportunity to evangelize this message.

Big Government is Bad Government, and the leviathan State cannot withstand a population united for Liberty. Only through Almighty God is man perfectable, NOT THROUGH GOVERNMENT. Unity where we agree, Liberty where we differ, and Charity for all is the path for victory.


13 posted on 07/27/2013 8:20:24 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: Principled

Time to stand for FREE America...shut it down.


14 posted on 07/27/2013 8:26:59 AM PDT by ogen hal (First amendment or reeducation camp)
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To: Principled
It is impossible to forecast whether Obama will veto a continuing resolution which fails to fund parts of Obamacare.

One has to presume that he will, as you suggest, and then one should wait and see whom fortune favors. The media, of course, will side with the president. The problem is that much of the Republican Party will side with the president, in fact they already have done so. But the Republicans at this point would not be out of bullets, they can send additional supplemental resolutions to the president's desk, or to the Senate, which address whatever objections are raised collateral to Obamacare. In other words, the Republicans can generate activity designed to make them look engaged.

Conservatives believe that there will be no other chance to stop Obamacare. One must consider the dimension of Obamacare, one out of every seven dollars which changes hands in America is for healthcare and will be controlled by this act-or rather it will be controlled by God knows what kind of regulations which are drawn under this act. Soon, subsidies will kick in and it will be impossible to tear out Obamacare from the culture, it would be akin to repealing Social Security.

So, conservatives believe that it is now or never.

It is not a given that Republicans will prevail in the next election if they simply sit on their hands until then. Many Republicans thought that the country could not possibly reelect Obama in 2012 and we were rudely disabused. One might say that we did the elitists' bidding in 2012, we nominated the Rino, the man who had passed Obamacare in Massachusetts, the man who ran a better campaign than John McCain except in one respect, there was no real attack on Obama personally. There was no explicit articulation of the profound fiscal threat facing the country.

As recently as this week Sarah Palin has complained that her hands were tied in the 2008 campaign and she was not allowed to attack Obama for his radical roots. Romney followed suit. Now, we are to go down this route one more time-why will we expect a different result?

You say we should expect a different result because of the results in 2010? But what was the Republican victory in 2010 based upon? Opposition to Obamacare!


15 posted on 07/27/2013 8:27:09 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: noprogs

I for one am certainly not “whining” and I resent the implication. I am frigging mad-dog mad! Mad at spineless
Republican leaders who will not lead. Mad at those that always prop up that same old “we’ll lose big time next time” if we do this or that.

At this point I do not care! I’d rather be rid of our Republican leadership and enablers in the Senate and House of Representatives more than I care about ObamaCare or a frigging budget or who gets blame.

I’d rather be part of a party of principles than to have to suffer each agonizing, embarrassing and pitiful leadership attempt by Boehner and McConnell that ends in capitulation and less freedom for me. I don’t want a third party, but I am more than willing to decimate mine to rid it of appeasing elitists. Count on it.


16 posted on 07/27/2013 8:28:53 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: noprogs
Bravo to you and to all those in Georgia who joined with you to restore the Republican Party to its conservative vision.


17 posted on 07/27/2013 8:29:44 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Gaffer

Don’t decimate it. Help be part of the tumor that takes over from the inside. Please get involved at the county level. Expect to get your ass handed to you a few times. Keep at it. It will work.

I’m mad too, but join with other like minded folk and please work within the GOP system. The tools are there.


18 posted on 07/27/2013 8:36:42 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: nathanbedford

If the repubs can get a CR thru without funding 0bamacare I’m all in for it.

Indeed there is more opposition to 0-care than ever. It could well be that Rs could successfully outmaneuver dems with a number of dems willing to defect.

Interesting times.

Do you think the Rs can successfully navigate a CR thru both houses without funding for 0-care hence forcing 0bama’s hand to veto/shut-down or accept defunding of his legacy?

Do you think a protracted/lengthy shutdown results in defunding of 0bamacare?


19 posted on 07/27/2013 8:39:59 AM PDT by Principled
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To: nathanbedford

Thanks NB. Each of us must maintain a local party focus to eventually correct the national party problem.

I just hope we have the time. One thing is for sure, every individual who gets mad and quits only lengthens the time this will require.


20 posted on 07/27/2013 8:41:56 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: Principled
I don't think the Republicans can get a CR that defunds Obamacare through either house. But they should try.

In any event they need only get it through the House of Representatives to defund it.

As I understand it, the whole system will break down without funds. I especially hope that the 3/10 of $1 billion earmarked for "community organizations" would be cut off.


21 posted on 07/27/2013 8:45:01 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Gaffer

In other words, the two best things about a pile of crap are; you can stir in it, and you can throw it.


22 posted on 07/27/2013 8:46:47 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: noprogs

You don’t need to tell me how to be involved. I was born here 6 decades ago. My family has been here since well before the Civil War.

A politician can start out here like your best boyhood friend. They end up after years in DC your worst enemy.

I’ve spent years and years telling them over and over that they are on the road to hell - Newt was my congressman and didn’t listen. Chambliss finally gave it up and is gonna retire. Isakson has started to toe the line some, but I’m gonna primary him, too.

I have told my new congressman exactly and succinctly what I want, and if I don’t get it, I’ll support his next opponent. Fortunately, he’s not a ‘reformer’ in the context of immigration.

My goal is to work within the system just enough to rid us from Chambliss (completely, including his endorsee), Isakson and any state rep or my US Congressman if he votes for any immigration reform other than enforcing current law.

Beyond that, my hope is that McConnell gets his axe along with Boehner, and my working at the county-level as you suggest will not change that. My county is a healthy majority Republican endeavor.


23 posted on 07/27/2013 8:47:07 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: noprogs

One should at least offer the courtesy of waiting for a reply to one’s first post before rethinking and re-answering before anything has been received.


24 posted on 07/27/2013 8:49:02 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: nathanbedford
I don't think the Republicans can get a CR that defunds Obamacare through either house. But they should try.

I agree with all that!

I also think the Rs should require a budget as a negotiating tool. ie "no CRs with 0care funding".

25 posted on 07/27/2013 8:50:07 AM PDT by Principled
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
What we don't want is another federal program instead of Obamacare. Let states and local communities decide some kind of reasonably priced clinics or whatever for people who do not have health insurance, for whatever reason.

What we need is a population more concerned about health, fitness, nutrition and finding reasonably priced solutions to medical situations. If some people can't afford some kinds of medical care, I know this is cold, but they'll have to do without.

There's nothing "conservative" about a federal solution to a problem that isn't covered by the constitution.

26 posted on 07/27/2013 8:50:10 AM PDT by grania
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To: Gaffer

I apologize. We are on the same page. Thanks.


27 posted on 07/27/2013 8:51:17 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: xzins

Who is available to primary McConnell?


28 posted on 07/27/2013 8:52:03 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
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To: xzins
One can only hope.
29 posted on 07/27/2013 8:55:36 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Who knew that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional journalism?)
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To: xzins

Lose owebama care and the Kentucky doughboy? Sounds like a two-fer to me.


30 posted on 07/27/2013 9:09:18 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (GOTS: Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, friends, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: stanne

“The puzzlement is the stark lack of logic that runs the lives of RINOs.”

Re-examine your premises. The gop wing of the uniparty is in it for themselves and their cronies. There’s your logic for you: what best feathers my nest and those of my cronies.


31 posted on 07/27/2013 9:11:17 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (GOTS: Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, friends, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: RKBA Democrat

It is not logical for a mature individual to ruin the country for personal wealth.

Illogical


32 posted on 07/27/2013 9:18:02 AM PDT by stanne
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To: nathanbedford

The problem is that millions of voters have been promised trillions of dollars of physician and hospital services with OPM, and the Members of Congress have neglected to collect one tenth of what the people have been promised.

Just look at Mike Lee. In his latest remarks on defunding, he promised to leave “all pre-existing conditions OK” and “keep your children on your policy until 26” intact. Of course, either of these things will destroy the existing structure anyway, so why is he bothering?

So, a crackup is coming, and, among other things, a lot of people will die for want of services they’ve been promised.

All that’s going on now is that various Republicans and Democrats are maneuvering to cast the blame on somebody, anybody, but themselves.

As long as Obama is in a position to pull everything down if the GOP succeeds in defunding the PPACA, they won’t do it.

The GOP is caught in a web of unconstitutional legislation and deficit spending, which is at least as much their doing as the Democrats. Obama, or whoever is running him, recognizes their predicament and wants to use it to destroy them.

I feel sorry for them. Their only way out is to stand up for principles they don’t believe in. Sucks to be them.


33 posted on 07/27/2013 9:18:40 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: nathanbedford

“So, conservatives believe that it is now or never.”

It’ll be never.

Both wings of the gop and ‘rat uniparty are firmly behind owebamacare. It’s a pure power play for them. Taking over the largest industry in the US, PLUS getting ahold of everyone’s personal medical data? That’s just too juicy of a prize for the uniparty to walk away from. Of course there will be the usual posturing and breast beating and such. And they’ll probably throw in a “nailbiting vote” for dramatic effect besides. But when the day is over, owebamacare will come into being.

The folks in Congress who can be called reliably conservative make up maybe 15-20% of the whole. On a good day. You need 2/3 to override a veto.


34 posted on 07/27/2013 9:20:02 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (GOTS: Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, friends, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: noprogs

Great post, and though I’m a steadfast opponent of the gop/’rat uniparty, glad to see y’all are trying to shake it up.

But I have a challenge for you. Quit looking for freedom and liberty within the current political construct. It won’t be found there. Look for autonomy instead. Personal, religious, moral, and political autonomy.


35 posted on 07/27/2013 9:33:44 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (GOTS: Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, friends, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: stanne

“It is not logical for a mature individual to ruin the country for personal wealth.”

Sure it is. Both logical and EVIL. In their twisted little psyches, taking a wrecking ball to the republic is perfectly logical if not desirable for certain parts of the political leadership. If you were to believe that you will personally gain from the destruction and that you won’t be held to account for doing so, it does make some logical sense.

I didn’t say it was good. Quite the contrary, I think it’s evil as hell. But don’t make the mistake of ascribing benevolent motives to those who don’t actually have them.


36 posted on 07/27/2013 9:40:51 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (GOTS: Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, friends, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: xzins

Like Dubya once said, “You are either with us or against us. It’s up to McConnell.


37 posted on 07/27/2013 9:46:48 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Principled
Repubs will be blamed for the subsequent shutdown.

If the Repubs can be falsely blamed for the shutdown then they could be falsely blamed for anything...and we lose our country.

It's time to stand up for the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

38 posted on 07/27/2013 9:48:15 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: RKBA Democrat

I think it’s illogical to ignore one’s promise to God to take care of the country as a duty and to then blow it off.

Hell exists whether we believe in it or not and it’s illogical to opt for eternity in Hell over money


39 posted on 07/27/2013 9:57:52 AM PDT by stanne
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To: Jim Noble; RKBA Democrat
I, of course, share the pessimism both of you have expressed. I also share, let's call it what it is, the cynicism concerning the motives of Republicans and Democrats.

in I note that in this battle Obama's ability to be to veto does not get him his funding, it merely raises the stakes.

I, of course, also agree with the sentiments that we are heading for crackup which was the predicate of my original post and I suppose the question of how conservatives and Republicans should comport themselves comes down to a question of honor.

I doubt the CR can be put through the house much less the Senate, nevertheless, the effort stakes out a claim of honor which can be cited when the shit hits the fan. However, there is always Nathan Bedford's second Maxim to consider:

Failed socialism does not lead to reform but to more socialism.


40 posted on 07/27/2013 10:00:38 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
“People like McConnell are somehow benefitting from ObamaCare either direct from their donors, lobbyists, etc., or indirectly in covert ways. “
This would not be surprising. Lots of businesses would love to not have to offer health care and push people into a government run system.


Spot-on call. Howell Raines, the former editor of The New York Times, wrote an article about this convergence of interests in October, 2008. It appeared in Conde Nast's now-defunct Portfolio (folded in 2009, along with much of the rest of the economy). Raines is a card-carrying liberal and was hastening to bring good news to Democrats before the happy election of America's First Black Communist.

Anyone who follows the business press or business shows like Nightly Business Report or Lou Rukuyser's Wall Street Week will have seen this coming, especially after S&P 100 CEO's started going to TV interviews to rage against employer-paid healthcare plans and their grievous deductions from the fat comp of major shareholders and leading executives.

According to Raines, eggheads holding party-leadership proxies (Harvard for the Dems, Cato Institute for the RiNO diplomate) reached an unwritten agreement in principle that the American People would be pushed out of their private arrangements and private, employer-paid healthcare and into the arms of a State system conjured by the sleepless, eyes-glow-in-the-dark power junkies of the 'Rat-Communist Party.

They big. You little. Screw you.

41 posted on 07/27/2013 10:01:29 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: stanne

“I think it’s illogical to ignore one’s promise to God to take care of the country as a duty and to then blow it off.”

I suggest re-examining your premises. These people don’t believe in any god but themselves. Their words may not betray that, but their actions certainly do.


42 posted on 07/27/2013 10:06:41 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (GOTS: Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, friends, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: CitizenUSA
There’s no real investigative journalism by the big players anymore, so it’s also unlikely that we’ll ever have proof that Senator McConnell is benefiting from Obamacare.

Ping to my last. Raines's article -- which was surprising in that it told the (apparent) truth and named names (including the Cato Ph.D. -- ironically, a middle-aged woman who is apparently prepared to eat her own cooking in a few years -- who brought Sen. McConnell's and the rest of the RiNOs' proxies to the table) -- showed that the RiNO seigneurate were willing to allow the Democrats to impose Soviet health, and it gave the reasons why: to-wit, demand from the S&P chiefs and the rest of the Business Roundtable/Chamber stakeholders. The bread crumbs are there, for anyone who cares to follow them.

43 posted on 07/27/2013 10:12:30 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: RKBA Democrat

It’s illogical to invite one’s family in and do a public swearing in and swear to God on a bible to protect and defend the US Constitution and then pretend God does not exist

That is illogical


44 posted on 07/27/2013 10:14:03 AM PDT by stanne
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To: nathanbedford

Threating a shutdown over Obamacare is a ‘Lost Cause’. People like Mark Levin pushing this are great attorneys but don’t understand politics. Let Obama be the one to threaten a shutdown over sequestration. Already conservatives are losing the PR war on this one ...


45 posted on 07/27/2013 10:14:27 AM PDT by 11th_VA
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To: nathanbedford
The problem with the RINO-e’s is that they are only concerned with the political “power” in Washington and so every consideration of voting on an issue is framed behind “what will this do to our political power” instead of “is this the right vote for our people and the country.”

The RINO-e’s would not even be in power at all, still wandering around in the woods of despair if it wasn't for the Tea Party showing up and handing the US House of Representatives to them. Again, instead of using the power of the purse to prevent any further harm to the American people and this Country, they have elected to use the House to further their political power, e.g. comprehensive immigration (amnesty), agreement to raise the national debt again for another trillion dollars, farm bill (farm welfare), and now the RINO-e’s are clearly supporting Obamacare electing to fund it instead of governing on behalf of the American people by defunding it, etc.

Until the RINO-e’s e.g. Karl Rove and company are challenged, defunded, booted from office, and put out to pasture for good, the liberals are simply going to sit back, feed the feud between the RINO-e’s and the true conservatives (Tea Party) and continue to win with each vote in Washington. This was no accident when the liberals put Marco Rubio in charge of the gang of eight for comprehensive immigration (amnesty) because it was a win win for the liberals, if the immigration bill passed, the Tea Party would turn against Rubio, a liberal win, if the immigration bill failed, the liberals would point a political finger at the Tea Party, a win for the liberals. Once again the RINO-e’s get played for idiots that they are.

When a representative stands on his or her principles and votes to govern on behalf of the American people and this country they cannot fail. But, politics comes first and so the same dance of who can fool the American people while voting to support stupid social engineering schemes and give me programs in order to buy votes will continue to take us down that road to ruin. They only question left, who has the guts to take a stand and vote to support the American people and this Country before it is too late?

46 posted on 07/27/2013 10:17:05 AM PDT by PotatoChop (Respect is earned, not demanded by this out of control socialist government!)
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To: nathanbedford

“I, of course, also agree with the sentiments that we are heading for crackup which was the predicate of my original post and I suppose the question of how conservatives and Republicans should comport themselves comes down to a question of honor.”

I also think some sort of crackup is coming, but not a breakup in the sense that your namesake would recognize. I think imperial Rome of the 4th and 5th century may be a better analogy, or perhaps Zimbabwe under robert mugabe. I’m virtually certain that a repeat of the history of Ft. Sumpter is NOT coming. Not because the sentiments aren’t there, but because pursuing such a course of action would result in the deaths of a very large number of people.

The question then, is what do people of honor do when faced with this sort of stark reality? Personally, I believe the they would be wise to look for the answers by asserting autonomy. Personal, moral, philosophical, religious, and yes, political autonomy.


47 posted on 07/27/2013 10:22:08 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (GOTS: Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, friends, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: nathanbedford

Always an interesting conversation when you appear on the site,
we don’t see enough your insight here!! Great conversation from all!!


48 posted on 07/27/2013 10:26:27 AM PDT by Kit cat (OBummer must go)
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To: RKBA Democrat
“It is not logical for a mature individual to ruin the country for personal wealth.”

Sure it is. Both logical and EVIL. In their twisted little psyches, taking a wrecking ball to the republic is perfectly logical if not desirable for certain parts of the political leadership.

The Hamiltonian, or business, approach to government has always been "Empire without the King". In that, Hamilton (once Washington's ADC) actually subverted the liberty interest of the People in favor of -- let's call it by its name -- access capitalism.

Money doesn't care about the size or shape of government. It cares about its quarterlies.

The ability of the business interest to blink its own destruction was proved by the businessmen of Carthage long ago, who denied Hannibal the large tranches of cash he needed actually to dissolve the Roman captive-alliance system, which was already putting 20+ legions in the field and eventually destroyed Carthage utterly.*

They simply refused to pay for their own safety, very much like the "wooden-gun" Republican Congresses of the Gilded Age and the 1920's.

*(Footnote)The virtuous, homespun, "little Italian town" mythology of Roman beginnings, as marketed by Livy and others, was always a children's bedtime story. Rome was always, from the post-regal fifth century BC onward, the biggest city in Italy and its political and military heavyweight. The place probably had more than 100,000 inhabitants well before the Punic Wars. Its political m.o. was indistinguishable from that of a modern Mafia syndicate.

49 posted on 07/27/2013 10:28:39 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: 11th_VA
Already conservatives are losing the PR war on this one ...

If the Journolist conspiracy holds together, conservatives are very likely to lose every PR war.

Obama can count on it.

It would take a lot to get enough conservatives out (GOTV) to turn the 'Rats out of power, esp. since the MSM run voter-suppression campaigns against us at every election -- and then complain that it's the conservatives and the GOP that are doing the voter suppression by asking people to present fraud-defeating credentials in order to vote.

50 posted on 07/27/2013 10:35:04 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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