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Pope: 'Who am I to judge' gay people?
NBC News ^ | 7/29/2013 | Anne Thompson and Henry Austin

Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen

Pope Francis on Monday said “who am I to judge?” gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.

Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.

“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.

“They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."

Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.

"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.

The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.

The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.

All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.

The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.

The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.

Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.”

He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.

"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."

History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.

He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.

He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.

"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; homosexuals; popefrancis; sincondoned; whoisthepope
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Well Francis will fit in perfectly in regards to his conformance to the mind set of his predecessors.

Who is he to judge? He is supposed to be the pope and a leader of Christ's Church on earth and a guiding light in respect to faith and morals. Homosexuality is a moral issue. It is a sin. Without forgiveness and amendment of one's life heaven's gates are barred, but Hell is open for business.

The Catholic Church at one time was a rock that stood as firm as St. Peter and was looked to by other Christians for some guidance. No more. It has joined the gaggle of other lukewarm or phony, watered down dogmas. In fact, subsequent to Vatican II an entirely new religion was formed.

As far as homosexuals slinking about the Vatican, I feel certain there are as I'm certain that America's current evil regime is full of them.

1 posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:05 AM PDT by IbJensen
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To: IbJensen

wimp


2 posted on 07/29/2013 7:08:34 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: IbJensen

The Pope may not have the power to judge but he does have the power to bless.

And God will not want him blessing muff divers and butt humpers.


3 posted on 07/29/2013 7:08:49 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: IbJensen

big time fail!


4 posted on 07/29/2013 7:09:06 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: IbJensen

The reporters were having a field day and picking and choosing what they said and how they said it to make Francis seem as liberal as possible. He’s right about the sin being forgiven and forgotten. He is not the judge. He represents Christ and the Church but Christ is the judge.


5 posted on 07/29/2013 7:09:12 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: IbJensen

The real threat is the Masonic lobby


6 posted on 07/29/2013 7:09:19 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: babble-on

Or rather, gay members of the Masonic lobby.


7 posted on 07/29/2013 7:11:40 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Kim Jong Un won't have a single "bad underwear day" unless/until we've a patriot in the White House)
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To: IbJensen

This is not a “church.” It is a Trojan horse. It has always been.


8 posted on 07/29/2013 7:12:23 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: IbJensen; fabian
Who is he to judge?

The article says so clearly The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are -- so hate the sin but not the sinner.

We hate homosexuality and the gay mafia but sympathize with those sinners.

What's wrong with what the Pope said in this context ". If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?”" - nothing?

Don't stick to just the headline... the MSM blurbs are nonsensical

9 posted on 07/29/2013 7:12:26 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: IbJensen

Judge no, remove/excommunicate if the practice openly, yes...


10 posted on 07/29/2013 7:12:38 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: BenLurkin; fabian; IbJensen
And God will not want him blessing muff divers and butt humpers.

sorry but God would WANT him to bless these mds and bhs that they go and sin no more

If someone has latent homosexual tendencies but does not succumb to it, they should be supported by the Christian community. if someone has a tendency to stray from the bounds of marriage, but does not act on this, they should be supported

Hate the sin,not the sinner.

Bless those who "search for the Lord" -- remember that that would mean giving up the sin.

11 posted on 07/29/2013 7:15:28 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: IbJensen

FR used to be a good place to dismantle media spin and propaganda. It’s sad to see it, instead, being swallowed - hook, line and sinker.


12 posted on 07/29/2013 7:15:53 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: IbJensen

I am an evangelical “fightin’” fundie, but also God has showed me how Christian faith exists in many different segments of nominal Christendom. The bothersome thing to me here would be for this leader of the Roman Catholic segment of Christendom to use the now ubiquitous word “gay” — if he did that. That word’s the devil’s sugarcoat on a life centered on the celebration of iniquity and it’s not JUST buggery, it’s a whole complex of hate that moves the people involved to such vicious things and to call them love. Language IS leverage. It’s not an unforgiveable sin, but it’s something I hope he watches in the future (for the sake of Christendom).


13 posted on 07/29/2013 7:16:29 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: Cronos

I stand corrected.


14 posted on 07/29/2013 7:16:55 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: fabian

The Church is as fortunate as our pitiful nation!

-Now there will be NO IRS audits of Roman Catholic Churches in America.

-Now Catholic schools will not have to hand out condoms to their students.

-Now Catholic hospitals will not have to provide birth control and abortion services.

-Obama will drop the Order he issued to them to start providing birth control and abortions.

-The IRS will now DROP the requirement that the Roman Catholic Church Pro-Life groups clear their prayers with the IRS, before praying them, like they did to that PL group in Iowa.

The pope’s statements are a major, 90 degree left turn from the previous positions of the previous popes following Pius XII, who were all lukewarm on most of the major tenets of the Church, but stood firm on abortion and sodomy.

It’s amazing to me how some feeble non-believers think that the mind of god can shift so strongly and swiftly from one pope to the next. These cafeteria Catholics believe that Jesus Christ should be brought into the 21st century and are too stupid to believe that our Savior does not change and he doesn’t wear Nikes, nor does he wear a loose baseball cap backwards!

This pope is a true modernist with deep secular leanings and stands as proof that the Church will not change until the second coming. There are many churchmen that will not make it past the Pearly Gates.

Francis is the antithesis of what the leader who sits on the throne of Peter should be.


15 posted on 07/29/2013 7:17:25 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen

Consider the abysmal track record of the MSM when reporting on anything to do with Christianity.

I would wait until an actual transit comes out before passing judgment.


16 posted on 07/29/2013 7:17:54 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Cronos

Why doesn’t he just shut up about it? He is catering as much as the phony in the White Hut.


17 posted on 07/29/2013 7:18:29 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: Cronos

True enough Cronos. The problem seems to be terminology. The world may say “gay.” Christendom shouldn’t.


18 posted on 07/29/2013 7:18:46 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: IbJensen

Yes...just another false teacher. We need to follow our own light from God..not people. copingstrategiescd.org has that pathway!


19 posted on 07/29/2013 7:19:48 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: IbJensen; All

Jesus Christ in Matthew said to not judge with outward appearances, but to “judge with righteous judgment.”

And thus, we are to judge things by the Word of God (the Bible, the scriptures). Paul the Apostle echoed these statements when he said that we are to test all things by scripture.

There are no scriptures that condone homosexuality...


20 posted on 07/29/2013 7:21:33 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: IbJensen

I would assume he meant “gay” as in orientation and not as in homosexual behavior. The Pope is not going to go against Church teaching on the matter. As he said, the catechism explains very will the difference between having same sex attraction which is disordered and the sin of homosexual acts.


21 posted on 07/29/2013 7:21:34 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: fabian

Ya lost me there when you plugged this website hawking a serenity CD.


22 posted on 07/29/2013 7:21:53 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: don-o

Well that has always been easy for many to do when it comes to Holy Mother Church.


23 posted on 07/29/2013 7:23:10 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: Cronos

As regards the evil of homosexuality and the inherent behavior:

It is rather like those who are addicted to pornography. The degrading scenes are etched on the brain and direct the hands and the minds back to those websites.

Homosexuality is an acquired ‘taste’ and that person who has delved into this satanic abyss can extricate himself by confession and amendment of his life.

There is no excuse. If homosexual thoughts are deliberately harbored and reflected upon, then that is a mortal sin.

Those who continue to wallow in thought or deed are more than likely to drift into pedophilia. At that point their souls are lost to satan.


24 posted on 07/29/2013 7:23:28 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Insightful.


25 posted on 07/29/2013 7:24:40 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen
“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican. “They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."

"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said....

....Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.” He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked. "Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."

Ping for later

26 posted on 07/29/2013 7:25:40 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("...Someone handed the keys to the Forum to the OPC and its sympathizers...")
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To: lastchance

The issue needs to be looked at with clearer vision than saying “same sex attraction.” That’s another unfortunate euphemism; male bonding with brotherly love even at a David-Jonathan level (they even bought garments for one another) is NOT NOT NOT (a million times NOT) the condition in mind here. Where the glory goes is what makes the difference. When the glory goes to the devil you get violence and buggery, what is commonly called “homosexuality.” When the glory goes to God it’s all on the up and up and there’s no sexual perversion at all; the men if anything will encourage one another to be better husbands to any wives, not worse ones.


27 posted on 07/29/2013 7:26:32 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: lastchance

The two are the same and if one believes his mind and soul has drifted into evil he must fervently pray and confess his sinful thought and/or actions.


28 posted on 07/29/2013 7:26:38 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen
“They say they exist"

Now that's funny.

29 posted on 07/29/2013 7:27:31 AM PDT by montag813 (NO AMNESTY * ENFORCE THE LAW * http://StandWithArizona.com)
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To: IbJensen

I’d say “sincerely” (there may or may not be degrees of fervor involved with handing one’s erring life back over to the Lord, but it should be sincerely).


30 posted on 07/29/2013 7:28:27 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: IbJensen; Cronos

In fact, here is a transcript:

«Si scrive tanto della lobby gay. Io finora non ho trovato in Vaticano chi ha scritto “gay” sulla carta d’identità. Bisogna distinguere tra l’essere gay, avere questa tendenza, e fare lobby. Le lobby, tutte le lobby, non sono buone. Se una persona è gay e cerca il Signore con buona volontà, chi sono io per giudicarlo? Il Catechismo della Chiesa cattolica insegna che le persone gay non si devono discriminare, ma si devono accogliere. Il problema non è avere questa tendenza, il problema è fare lobby e questo vale per questo come per le lobby d’affari, le lobby politiche, le lobby massoniche».

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/vaticano/dettaglio-articolo/articolo/gmg-26831/%26h%3D9AQHSVW2p%26s%3D1/pag/2/

Bottom line is he draws a clear distinction between somebody who is sincerely seeking God and happens to have same sex attraction and this “gay lobby”

Reading his actual words, the is no major controversy here.


31 posted on 07/29/2013 7:29:11 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: IbJensen

I guess I wouldn’t have minded Francis making a call for repentance along with this. Perhaps he did and it wasn’t reported.


32 posted on 07/29/2013 7:29:44 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Army dad. And damned proud.)
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To: IbJensen

A judge is one who convicts. Conviction of sin only happens through the Holy Spirit. Christians are supposed to be vessels through which the Holy Spirit flows.

Homosexuality must flee in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Christians who do not seek the presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives are leaky vessels that won’t hold what is needed for the process of conviction.


33 posted on 07/29/2013 7:31:58 AM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: markomalley

Well, they have words for homosexuality in Italian don’t they? There is no need to import the misleading euphemism “gay”?


34 posted on 07/29/2013 7:32:20 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Not hawking serenity..it is true prayer that is being used by our US military. Its free to listen to there...or at fhu.com


35 posted on 07/29/2013 7:38:01 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: IbJensen

Answer this for me please... who is he to ignore scripture or does his being pope make him rise above the word of GOD?

LLS


36 posted on 07/29/2013 7:39:15 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: BenLurkin

The judge of all is God Almighty and the Pope never did have such power. However, the Pope does have the ability to preach the Word and should do so. The Word of God does say that being a practicing homosexual is a sin and to try to worm out of God’s truth is not a good idea. Down the road that may be very costly.


37 posted on 07/29/2013 7:39:57 AM PDT by mulligan
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To: markomalley

there is controversy..because he is saying it’s okay to be gay...just not lobby


38 posted on 07/29/2013 7:40:44 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: IbJensen
I don't judge cigarette smokers either, but I can use my judgement about cigarette smoking. Catch the difference there, Francis?
39 posted on 07/29/2013 7:42:05 AM PDT by NurdlyPeon (It is the nature of liberals to pervert whatever they touch.)
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To: Cronos

What is wrong with the Pope quoting these?

Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Read More...)

Romans 1:26-28 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Read More...)

Exodus 22:19 - Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Leviticus 18:1-30 - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (Read More...)

Leviticus 18:15-24 - Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she [is] thy son’s wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.


40 posted on 07/29/2013 7:45:51 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: IbJensen
Is Pope Francis "Peter the Roman" ?

41 posted on 07/29/2013 7:45:58 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: IbJensen
""Mary is more important than the apostles," he said."

Just one of the many errors the Roman Catholic Church lives in.

42 posted on 07/29/2013 7:46:24 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: IbJensen

I’ll tell you who you are, Pope Francis.

You are a Pope that I do not care for at all.

I’ll leave it at that.


43 posted on 07/29/2013 7:46:35 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: IbJensen

he’s new. he must not have read the job description yet.


44 posted on 07/29/2013 7:47:29 AM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: Dutchboy88

Despising the Mother of Jesus is an error of the protestant sects


45 posted on 07/29/2013 7:47:57 AM PDT by stanne
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To: don-o

Another rush to judgement, a la anti-Zimmerman style, perfectly orchestrated by the media for the consumption by the mouth breathers, with the facts of the faith shuttered.

Gird your loins.


46 posted on 07/29/2013 7:49:33 AM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: IbJensen

After the firestorm this spun comment causes he will definitely shut up about it


47 posted on 07/29/2013 7:51:36 AM PDT by stanne
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To: RummyChick

There is a problem because those statements ignore the very next verse in Matthew.

Matthew 7:1-5 is do not judge.

6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

You cannot be gay on the inside, be a murderer on the inside, be an adulterer, a liar, a idol worshiper...whatever on the inside and think it’s okay by God. Jesus was none of these things and we are to be like Him in action and in heart.

Matthew 11

28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”


48 posted on 07/29/2013 7:53:51 AM PDT by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: Cronos

The full quote is even more disturbing because the Pope knows that is not the issue. All Christians should agree with that statement. The Culture is being wagged by a tiny group of homosexual radicals who want their lifestyle approved & exulted. They have infiltrated all the major institutions of Govt., Education, Entertainment, and the Church. To disagree is to HATE - that is intolerable to me, and I want our leaders to speak out against that. If the Pope can’t see that or won’t see that, well...who is he really representing?


49 posted on 07/29/2013 7:56:16 AM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: IbJensen

The headline is deceptive. PF said that if the ga person was living a good Christian life and seeking God, the ‘who am I to judge him?”

So, in no way did PF endorse homosexual behavior; he merely said that to have a homosexual attraction is not in itself a sin. The behavior is the factor in whether the person is committing sinful acts.

I do wish people would get all the facts correct before judging the person.


50 posted on 07/29/2013 7:58:00 AM PDT by Gumdrop
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