Skip to comments.Pope: 'Who am I to judge' gay people?
Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen
Pope Francis on Monday said who am I to judge? gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.
Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.
I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay, the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.
They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge? he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."
Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.
"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.
The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.
The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.
All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.
The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.
The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.
Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop the theology of women in the church.
He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.
"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."
History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.
He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.
He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.
"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."
I would assume he meant “gay” as in orientation and not as in homosexual behavior. The Pope is not going to go against Church teaching on the matter. As he said, the catechism explains very will the difference between having same sex attraction which is disordered and the sin of homosexual acts.
Ya lost me there when you plugged this website hawking a serenity CD.
Well that has always been easy for many to do when it comes to Holy Mother Church.
As regards the evil of homosexuality and the inherent behavior:
It is rather like those who are addicted to pornography. The degrading scenes are etched on the brain and direct the hands and the minds back to those websites.
Homosexuality is an acquired ‘taste’ and that person who has delved into this satanic abyss can extricate himself by confession and amendment of his life.
There is no excuse. If homosexual thoughts are deliberately harbored and reflected upon, then that is a mortal sin.
Those who continue to wallow in thought or deed are more than likely to drift into pedophilia. At that point their souls are lost to satan.
"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said....
....Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop the theology of women in the church. He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked. "Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."
Ping for later
The issue needs to be looked at with clearer vision than saying “same sex attraction.” That’s another unfortunate euphemism; male bonding with brotherly love even at a David-Jonathan level (they even bought garments for one another) is NOT NOT NOT (a million times NOT) the condition in mind here. Where the glory goes is what makes the difference. When the glory goes to the devil you get violence and buggery, what is commonly called “homosexuality.” When the glory goes to God it’s all on the up and up and there’s no sexual perversion at all; the men if anything will encourage one another to be better husbands to any wives, not worse ones.
The two are the same and if one believes his mind and soul has drifted into evil he must fervently pray and confess his sinful thought and/or actions.
Now that's funny.
I’d say “sincerely” (there may or may not be degrees of fervor involved with handing one’s erring life back over to the Lord, but it should be sincerely).
In fact, here is a transcript:
«Si scrive tanto della lobby gay. Io finora non ho trovato in Vaticano chi ha scritto “gay” sulla carta d’identità. Bisogna distinguere tra l’essere gay, avere questa tendenza, e fare lobby. Le lobby, tutte le lobby, non sono buone. Se una persona è gay e cerca il Signore con buona volontà, chi sono io per giudicarlo? Il Catechismo della Chiesa cattolica insegna che le persone gay non si devono discriminare, ma si devono accogliere. Il problema non è avere questa tendenza, il problema è fare lobby e questo vale per questo come per le lobby d’affari, le lobby politiche, le lobby massoniche».
Bottom line is he draws a clear distinction between somebody who is sincerely seeking God and happens to have same sex attraction and this “gay lobby”
Reading his actual words, the is no major controversy here.
I guess I wouldn’t have minded Francis making a call for repentance along with this. Perhaps he did and it wasn’t reported.
A judge is one who convicts. Conviction of sin only happens through the Holy Spirit. Christians are supposed to be vessels through which the Holy Spirit flows.
Homosexuality must flee in the presence of the Holy Spirit.
Christians who do not seek the presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives are leaky vessels that won’t hold what is needed for the process of conviction.
Well, they have words for homosexuality in Italian don’t they? There is no need to import the misleading euphemism “gay”?
Not hawking serenity..it is true prayer that is being used by our US military. Its free to listen to there...or at fhu.com
Answer this for me please... who is he to ignore scripture or does his being pope make him rise above the word of GOD?
The judge of all is God Almighty and the Pope never did have such power. However, the Pope does have the ability to preach the Word and should do so. The Word of God does say that being a practicing homosexual is a sin and to try to worm out of God’s truth is not a good idea. Down the road that may be very costly.
there is controversy..because he is saying it’s okay to be gay...just not lobby
What is wrong with the Pope quoting these?
Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Read More...)
Romans 1:26-28 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Read More...)
Exodus 22:19 - Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Leviticus 18:1-30 - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (Read More...)
Leviticus 18:15-24 - Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she [is] thy son’s wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.