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Vatican's shift on gay priests may influence civil law in US
Allvoices ^ | Monday, July 29, 2013 | Paul Jesep

Posted on 07/29/2013 10:25:42 AM PDT by Jyotishi

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1 posted on 07/29/2013 10:25:42 AM PDT by Jyotishi
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To: Jyotishi
In doing so, he has set the stage for a lively, much needed discussion about human sexuality.

Swell. Just what we DON'T need.


2 posted on 07/29/2013 10:27:47 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Jyotishi
Can gays be celibate? To me it is an oxymoron.
3 posted on 07/29/2013 10:29:58 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Democrats: Robbing Peter to buy Paul's vote.)
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To: Jyotishi

Has there actually been a shift in RC policy and practice?

Are the statements by the Popes contradictory?


4 posted on 07/29/2013 10:31:26 AM PDT by mbarker12474
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To: Jyotishi

More from the writer

“The comments rai.se questions about long-standing Vatican policies that are spiritually and emotionally abusive. The predecessor of Pope Francis, Benedict, said homosexuality, “is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.” “

Correct

“Of course, science has long rebutted the notion homosexuality is a “disorder.” “

BS.


5 posted on 07/29/2013 10:31:35 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Cowboy Bob

Yea, to me gay is a verb.


6 posted on 07/29/2013 10:31:43 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Cowboy Bob

Priests face terrible temptations. Celibacy is a challenge for both gay and straight priests.

Priests who break their vows are not spending enough time with Christ in humble prayer. When we cease to pray, we lose the ability to resist our temptations. Holds true for the ordained and the laity.


7 posted on 07/29/2013 10:33:29 AM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: Jyotishi

I hope this is erroneous reporting of a blabbermouth Pope who needs to watch his diarrhea of the mouth


8 posted on 07/29/2013 10:33:35 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Jyotishi

If only the “orientation” is present, and not the behavior or the self-advertising, then there is nothing to be observed, judged, or objected to.


9 posted on 07/29/2013 10:34:05 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: Jyotishi

This article is trash

Look for the Pope to restate his position which is the Catholic position and always has been

This article staes that there is hatred in the conservative circles of the Church

This is ignorant beyond reason for any journalist

There is no such thing as a coservative circle in the Church. It is not a democrat organization

It’s members do mot get to opine nor onfluence it. When they don’t like that they can separate from the Church in disobedience and free (but not God’s) will

Second, there is no hatred toward people in the Church. It unwaveringly states that homosexual acts are sin, bit that those who have mere temptation without acting on it are not in sin

It’s in the Catechism


10 posted on 07/29/2013 10:36:40 AM PDT by stanne
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To: Cowboy Bob

He did not state that priests should enter the clergy. In fact the Church states that they should not do so, as temptation is there


11 posted on 07/29/2013 10:38:10 AM PDT by stanne
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To: Jyotishi
He appeared to accept the service of gay priests who don’t act on their sexuality.

It isn't my place to judge, but I have questions.

Who benefits by this opinion? Is it for the gay priests' benefit or for the lost sheep and lambs? Or something else?

Can the gay priest speak to everything that Scripture teaches with the same spirit, conviction and intent as the Original Teacher, so that his flock isn't lead astray?

To what end is this designed to lead Peter's Church to?

12 posted on 07/29/2013 10:38:34 AM PDT by GBA (Our obamanation: Romans 1:18-32)
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To: yldstrk

I think in a sense these comments speak to his naiveté regarding public discourse in our current cultural decline. Perhaps he as led a cloistered existence and doesn’t fully grasp the rabid nature with which the immoral will twist and turn the words of truth for their own purposes.

In some ways his naiveté is more dangerous than his would be acceptance of homosexual priests.

The catholic church has knowingly allowed gays into the seminaries because they fear a decline of priests to lead the flocks, instead they have let in the wolves.

Pray for priests and the pope, they are under constant attack because they strive for the salvation of souls. Follow Christ and love your neighbor. Easier said than done.


13 posted on 07/29/2013 10:43:07 AM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: Jyotishi
the ugly, hateful stereotype someone gay is inclined to be a pedophile

Because of course NAMBLA was founded by heteros, and 98% of the priestly molestation cases were not adult males fondling adolescent altar boys.

14 posted on 07/29/2013 10:44:51 AM PDT by Argus
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To: Jyotishi

A link to the catechism statement on homosexuality

It’s no different from what the pope said

The news will have a whole month of fodder over this and the sweet pope will clarify and regret trusting the media to exhibit intelligence and logic

Free Republic will post these anti Catholic sources gleefully
Trust National Catholic Register not Reporter and EWTN.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357


15 posted on 07/29/2013 10:49:52 AM PDT by stanne
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To: Jyotishi

The Vatican did not “shift” at all. It as always been the policy that if someone suffers from a homosexual orientation, it’s like any other problem (for example, being born with a birth defect that leaves one crippled) and is a cross that must be dealt with. A person who is crippled cannot let himself be swamped by anger and bitterness or attempt to cripple other people of jealousy; a person who has homosexual tendencies (which I think are the result of upbringing) cannot let them take him over and cannot act on them.

Obviously, acting on a homosexual tendency would be a sin and encouraging it would be a sin, as he clearly points out. But people can fall and repent and come back again, and this has ALWAYS been the position of the Church. And it was not up to him to judge them (because only God can judge). That was all he was saying, not that homosexuality was ok.

I also think he wants to avoid having witch-hunts in the Church (he was asked about this in connection with the charges that an appointee of his was homosexual, which he had investigated and found without cause).

In addition, he made the point that when people become a “lobby,” they are essentially leaving the Faith for some cause of their own, and setting it up to the destruction of the Church.

Remember when Benedict said that some people argued that condom use was permissible in Africa (because of AIDS) but that they were not even useful in preventing AIDS - and the press came out saying that BXVI had announced that condoms were ok?

I think Pope Francis should be more careful about what he says, but at the same time, there’s really no way to keep the press from twisting his words, no matter how bland or neutral they may be.


16 posted on 07/29/2013 10:51:50 AM PDT by livius
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To: don-o; ArrogantBustard

Of course this spin is just malicious propaganda, but it illustrates why a Pope must be very careful in both his official pronouncements as well as his off the cuff remarks and interviews.


17 posted on 07/29/2013 10:53:41 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: mbarker12474
Has there actually been a shift in RC policy and practice?

Are the statements by the Popes contradictory?

No shift. Pope made distinction between the sin or temptation and the person. The person who is tempted should be cared for. The person who acts on activity is sinning gravely.

Not said is whether public knowledge of the sin disqualifies from priesthood. What is confessed in the sacrament of penance remains, as always, secret. I can't imagine an publicly active homosexual priest would remain in the ministry.

18 posted on 07/29/2013 10:55:24 AM PDT by HapaxLegamenon
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To: Argus

Understanding why homosexuality leads to pedophilia requires a truthful look into homosexuality... Here goes hope I don’t get censored.

Men who enjoy sex with other men ( and animals and children ) do so because of the thrill of the taboo. In other words it is the thrill of doing perverted things and evil things that results in a high. Once the initial thrill of doing the taboo wears off, the perversion must be extended to regain the high. Look to examples of S&M behavior and torture combined with sexual acts. This leads to pornography, orgies and sex with children as it becomes impossible to achieve the high without increasing the degree of depravity. Homosexuality comes from a love of the perverse not from the love of another human being. It comes from a desire to rebel against the rules ( i.e. God’s natural law)

Now who started the rebellion? Look at the dedication in Saul Alinsky’s rules for radicals if you need a refresher.


19 posted on 07/29/2013 10:55:55 AM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: Jyotishi
The comments raise questions about long-standing Vatican policies that are spiritually and emotionally abusive. The predecessor of Pope Francis, Benedict, said homosexuality, “is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder." Of course, science has long rebutted the notion homosexuality is a “disorder.” In his comment, Francis spoke to the personhood of every individual, regardless of his calling to the priesthood. In doing so, he has set the stage for a lively, much needed discussion about human sexuality.

Will the Vatican now take a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach to the priesthood? Will it permit celibate, but openly gay priests to serve? What message does it send to LGBTQ Catholics long marginalized by orthodox Catholics and conservative hierarchs, if openly, celibate gay priests serve the holy sacraments? If a gay or straight priest acts on a need for physical intimacy and companionship, what makes it a sin, breaking the vow given to the church over celibacy? If an openly gay, celibate priest is worthy to serve Eucharist, solemnize straight marriages, and perform the last rites at someone’s bedside, how is it possible two parishioners of the same gender can’t have a blessing of their union, though not called a marriage? Will gay, celibate priests be able to speak out against such injustices as discrimination in housing and employment due to sexual identity? Will a lesbian teacher now be allowed to keep her job at a Catholic school? Does acceptance of gay priests finally break the ugly, hateful stereotype someone gay is inclined to be a pedophile, long perpetuated by conservative elements in the Catholic Church, but disavowed by science?

What does a celibate-but-openly-gay priest look like?

20 posted on 07/29/2013 10:56:26 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("...Someone handed the keys to the Forum to the OPC and its sympathizers...")
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