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The Beginning of the End for Liberal Jewry
commentary ^ | June 12, 2012 | Jonathon S Tobin

Posted on 07/30/2013 7:04:43 PM PDT by amnestynone

A new survey of the Jewish population in the Greater New York area contradicts the conventional wisdom about the subject. It has long been assumed that any portrait of American Jews must tell us a story about an aging, liberal population that is rapidly assimilating. But, as the New York Times reports, the latest results show that the population of the largest center of Jewish life outside of Israel is actually growing. The survey’s estimate of New York City’s Jewish community pegs it at about 1.1 million, with 1.54 million being counted when you include the surrounding suburban counties on Long Island and Westchester (Jews in Northern New Jersey who would also be considered part of Greater New York were not counted). Of even greater import is that the rapid expansion of ultra-Orthodox and Hasidic Jewry are the sole reason for this population growth. By contrast, the numbers of Jews who identity with the heretofore much larger non-Orthodox movements have declined precipitately. The only other sector that is growing is made up of those Jews who reject all the denominations or eschew religion entirely.

If, as the survey tells us, 40 percent of Jews in New York City and 74 percent of all Jewish children are Orthodox, then this must inform our conclusions not only about what American Jews believe but also about its future. When combined with the nearly one-third of Jews who are abandoning Jewish identity altogether, this paints a picture of an American Jewish population that is comprised of two ships passing each other in the night — one becoming increasingly Orthodox and the other on the brink of not being Jewish at all. Because the Orthodox have radically different views on political issues from those of the non-Orthodox as well as generally identifying more thoroughly with Israel, this will inevitably alter the political balance of the community. Though the numbers may be different elsewhere in the country, with about one-third of American Jewry located in Greater New York, there’s little doubt this means the Jewish community of the future will be far less liberal.


TOPICS: Editorial; Israel; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey; US: New York
KEYWORDS: demograpics; israel; jews; newjersey; newyork
There is really alot of demographics that are going are way if you dig deeply.
1 posted on 07/30/2013 7:04:43 PM PDT by amnestynone
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To: amnestynone

2014 elections could be a proving point.


2 posted on 07/30/2013 7:07:03 PM PDT by doc1019 (Get our troops the hell out of the ME)
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To: amnestynone

I don’t buy it.


3 posted on 07/30/2013 7:08:07 PM PDT by HChampagne
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To: amnestynone

So jews will vote 69-31 for the most liberal politicians rather than 75-25...


4 posted on 07/30/2013 7:09:08 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: amnestynone

Wistful thinkin!


5 posted on 07/30/2013 7:09:57 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: amnestynone

Naw, not buyin it.


6 posted on 07/30/2013 7:12:27 PM PDT by uncitizen (Barack Obama hates white people)
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To: amnestynone

I’ll believe it when I see it. Actually, I will probably still need some convincing. Still, it’s a nice thought.


7 posted on 07/30/2013 7:12:44 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: amnestynone

Liberal Jews vote just like blacks...even though neither group can stand the other.


8 posted on 07/30/2013 7:16:14 PM PDT by peyton randolph (Tagline copyright in violation of Directive 10-289)
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To: amnestynone

In 1916, the republicans won an incredible 45% of the Jewish vote, that is something to strive for again.


9 posted on 07/30/2013 7:18:26 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12

That was before Hitler (who acted like a liberal) starting slaughtering Jews, and Jews for some unknown reason rebelled against Americans.

I sure don’t get it.

We did everything perfectly. Yet we get blamed.

So I’ll say it. Buy American.


10 posted on 07/30/2013 7:21:36 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: amnestynone

Any “liberal” versions of a religion seems to gain a lot of adherents at first, because some people want the comfort of religion without the strictures. The problem is, that drops off, because people find out that the liberal version doesn’t really offer them much comfort at all.


11 posted on 07/30/2013 7:22:59 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: amnestynone
What percentage of Orthodox and Hassidic Jews vote?

Besides being "conservative" on issues related to Israel, what are their opinions on social and domestic issues?

I think there is a lot of resentment toward the WASP strawman that supposedly still dominates the Republican Party. Lots of nominally conservative Asians and Jews will continue to register as Democrats just to stick it to the strawMAN.

12 posted on 07/30/2013 7:27:23 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Boogieman
You can clean up trash on the beach and go to a liberal religious service in a stuffy building afterwards, or you can clean up trash on the beach and go to your favorite place for brunch afterwards.

If you're a liberal, which do you prefer?

13 posted on 07/30/2013 7:29:35 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: ansel12

striving? Okay...I cant think of a better attitude

Realistically its been nearly 100 years. Todays voter...aint the voter of 1916, Jewish or otherwise.

The “progressives” are evil...but sadly not dumb enough to let fly with a rash of Anti- Jewish insults,...in public.


14 posted on 07/30/2013 7:35:00 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey (Macabre Crumpet of Caucasian Ethnicity)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
That was before Hitler (who acted like a liberal) starting slaughtering Jews, and Jews for some unknown reason rebelled against Americans.

Jews rebelled against Americans? What the hell are you talking about?

15 posted on 07/30/2013 7:41:33 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: peyton randolph
Liberal Jews vote just like blacks...even though neither group can stand the other.

I heard the quote ....live like Presbyterians and vote like Puerto Ricans.

16 posted on 07/30/2013 7:47:19 PM PDT by VRW Conspirator (The Lefties can drink Kool-Aid; I will drink Tea.)
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To: amnestynone

Maybe they all moved to Miami :)


17 posted on 07/30/2013 7:49:38 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: Alter Kaker

OK let me reword that.

Not rebelled. But the Jewish voters in America seem overwhelmingly to be hard-core Democrats.

Not the ones here, but overwhelmingly in America, a very significant number of Jews are Democrats.

Overwhelmingly.

I get quite frustrated, with Jewish tendency to support the left.

It is very consistent.


18 posted on 07/30/2013 7:51:08 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: MeshugeMikey

I don’t know what you were trying to say in that post.


19 posted on 07/30/2013 8:03:42 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
So jews will vote 69-31 for the most liberal politicians rather than 75-25..

It's hard to see, because most of the liberal Jews today are anti-religious, and they vote. But they're old, and have no grandchildren. That number of 74 percent of children among New York Jewry being Orthodox or Hasidic. That's a world-changing number. The Orthodox are a whole 'nother smoke.

The demographic habit decimating liberal Jews is doing the same thing among liberal Protestants, Catholics, and atheists. They don't have children. They grow old and don't leave a trace.

20 posted on 07/30/2013 8:06:18 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: amnestynone

21 posted on 07/30/2013 8:10:49 PM PDT by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: amnestynone

Finding an American Jew who votes Republican is about as easy as finding a Leprechaun riding a Unicorn through a Category 5 Hurricane.


22 posted on 07/30/2013 9:23:34 PM PDT by Prole
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
OK let me reword that. Not rebelled.

No, actually I won't let you reword that. Not only did you speak in error, but you did so in a patently offensive manner that seems to question the "Americanness" of Jews, despite the fact that Jews have lived in America since before its founding and served it honorably in every war since the Revolution.

Not the ones here, but overwhelmingly in America, a very significant number of Jews are Democrats.

So what? Many Jews are conservative Republicans too. It's a free country, and one of the freedoms we cherish is the freedom to vote for whatever damn fool you want to. If some Jews want to vote for dumb candidates, we can argue with them but that's their right. What's not ok is questioning their citizenship or loyalty to the country on the basis of their religion.

23 posted on 07/30/2013 10:00:32 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Alter Kaker

OK then I stand my original ground.

Up to you. :D


24 posted on 07/30/2013 10:02:22 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

You’re free to post anti-Semitic nonsense on this forum if the moderators let you, and I’m free to call out that garbage.


25 posted on 07/30/2013 10:03:28 PM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Alter Kaker

Hey I get a bit near the edge every once in a while, but I think I have never crossed over into blatant inappropriateness.

And you’ll have to admit, I tried to climb down.

You refused, so I doubled down instead.

That was your decision. :D


26 posted on 07/30/2013 10:07:06 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: amnestynone
Remember folks: don't pee on the Third Rail!


27 posted on 07/30/2013 10:07:08 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: amnestynone

Please note the author.....

Jonathan S. Tobin, from “Commentary” magazine.

For Tobin, “Conservative” means guys like David Brooks at the New York Times and Chris Christie, governor of New Jersey.

Tobin is a rock solid Conservative on defense policy and foreign policy.

On everything else, he is a standard issue RINO.


28 posted on 07/30/2013 11:43:53 PM PDT by zeestephen
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To: ansel12

Re: “In 1916, the Republicans won an incredible 45% of the Jewish vote, that is something to strive for again.”

Strive for the number, but NOT the candidate!

Charles Evans Hughes ran against Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

Hughes was the former Republican governor of New York.

He was a leader of the American Progressive movement, an admirer of Teddy Roosevelt, an admirer of British Socialism, and, as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, he supported most of FDR’s Constitution destroying policies.


29 posted on 07/31/2013 12:03:46 AM PDT by zeestephen
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To: 2banana

But 25% of them do vote Republican and that is where the maority of the 10% that is orthodox vote.


30 posted on 07/31/2013 7:18:55 AM PDT by amnestynone
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To: 2banana

“So jews will vote 69-31 for the most liberal politicians rather than 75-25”

Not the orthodox they voted 90% for the gop accoprding to thiarticle and they may very well be the majority of the jewish vote(or wht is left of them) in a couple of generations.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/republicans-carry-over-90-of-orthodox-jewish-vote-1


31 posted on 07/31/2013 7:18:55 AM PDT by amnestynone
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To: zeestephen
trive for the number, but NOT the candidate! Charles Evans Hughes ran against Woodrow Wilson in 1916. Hughes was the former Republican governor of New York. He was a leader of the American Progressive movement, an admirer of Teddy Roosevelt, an admirer of British Socialism, and, as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, he supported most of FDR’s Constitution destroying policies.

True, and in the next election, in 1920, the Jewish vote went 43% republican while 38% went for the Socialist Party and Eugene Debs, and 19% for the democrat party.

32 posted on 07/31/2013 8:01:26 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: amnestynone; 2banana

No one knows how Orthodox Jews vote because the numbers are too small, your article does not give the orthodox Jewish vote for the nation and it is wrong for you to post facts that aren’t facts at all.


33 posted on 07/31/2013 8:14:40 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Santorum appeared on CBS and pronounced George Zimmerman guilty of murder, first degree. March-2012)
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To: ansel12

There is some diffrence of opinion on how much they vote Republican but there is no doubt they vote more Republican then the other elements of the Jewish community as a whole. This article says 87% of the Orthodox voted GOP. But, I think that may be high. http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Washington-Watch-Are-Jewish-voting-patterns-changing


34 posted on 07/31/2013 11:42:50 AM PDT by amnestynone
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To: amnestynone
It is indeed true that Orthodox Jews have views very different from those of the non-Orthodox. However, there are still three things to contend with before even this bloc becomes a consistent conservative vote:

1)The Chasidim and Charedim live extremely insular lives, which means their views often remain private and limited to the community itself. Towards the larger outside community they are far from didactic and tend to adopt the extremely pragmatic tactic of getting along with and supporting the liberal Democrats who run NYC. Shoot, they live in a portable Theocracy, but that Theocracy never seems to impinge on the outside political world.

2)Even the "ultra-Orthodox" Jews often depend on secular and liberal Jews for funding. This is one of the ways (along with political ultra-radicalism) the seculars get to assure themselves that they are indeed "good Jews," and if the Orthodox were to mount any sort of campaign to correct their opinions, well . . . there it would go.

3)There is currently an obsession with "Jewish unity" above and beyond anything else. Everyone from the most withdrawn Chasidic rebbe to the most depraved moral nihilist is supposed to stick together because Jews shouldn't quarrel among themselves. Never mind that in the Torah Jews were often ordered to put fellow Jews to death in great numbers, without any "let's not find among ourselves" involved.

Still, this is good news in the long run. But the arrival of Mashiach is still our best hope.

35 posted on 07/31/2013 1:22:49 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
What percentage of Orthodox and Hassidic Jews vote?

Not all of them do.

Besides being "conservative" on issues related to Israel, what are their opinions on social and domestic issues?

They are conservative about their fellow Jews in 'Eretz Yisra'el, not necessarily about the Medinah (State of Israel) which many of them actually oppose. As to other issues, as I said in an earlier post, they basically live in an insular Theocracy. The good thing about this is that it's a Theocracy. The bad thing is that it is insular. They tend to worry about their internal world and not pay too much attention to what's going on outside and pragmatically maintain good relations with liberal Democrats. This is bad, but it must be remembered that these are a people in exile and have always had to walk a very narrow line.

I think there is a lot of resentment toward the WASP strawman that supposedly still dominates the Republican Party. Lots of nominally conservative Asians and Jews will continue to register as Democrats just to stick it to the strawMAN.

Which kind of WASP? There's the Rockefeller Republican varity (which the John Birch Society insists is actually Secretly Behind Communism), and there are the rednecks like me. If those rich WASPS have it so good I wish like blazes they'd share some of their good fortune with me.

36 posted on 07/31/2013 1:28:44 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
OK let me reword that.

Not rebelled. But the Jewish voters in America seem overwhelmingly to be hard-core Democrats.

Not the ones here, but overwhelmingly in America, a very significant number of Jews are Democrats.

Overwhelmingly.

I get quite frustrated, with Jewish tendency to support the left.

It is very consistent.

The Democrats can have the non-Orthodox Jews so far as I'm concerned. It's the Orthodox I want to support us.

There are two reasons for the continuing support of Democrats among Orthodox (and even "ultra"-Orthodox) Jews. One is that they tend to live in cities run exclusively by liberal Democrats and have to stay in the good graces of whoever is in power. And as I said earlier, though they essentially live Theocratic lifestyles, they are very insular. There are those who point out what a public desecration of G-d's Name supporting Democrats is, but there is such a thing as historical inertia.

The Democrats traditionally are the party not only of Jews, but of large numbers of ethnic communities: Catholics, Irish, Italians, Slavs, Greeks, you-name-it. "Blacksandhispanics" are just the latest addition (the Dems traded grudge-bearing white Southerners for the Blacks).

I hope this helps to explain things in some way.

37 posted on 07/31/2013 1:36:15 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Alter Kaker
No, actually I won't let you reword that. Not only did you speak in error, but you did so in a patently offensive manner that seems to question the "Americanness" of Jews, despite the fact that Jews have lived in America since before its founding and served it honorably in every war since the Revolution.

Some three hundred years ago practically all the Jews in the world lived in autonomous Theocratic communities under the civil authority of the Rabbinate. We'd all be better off it that were the situation today. This notion that Jews are just another religious denomination instead of a Theocratic nation in exile has lead to all sorts of mischief.

Bury the enlightenment. Worldwide Judaic Theocracy now!

38 posted on 07/31/2013 1:43:18 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

It was an hornor to receive a reply like this on my post. You have remarkable and interesting background for a site like this. I understand how they may not openly opppose the lib establishment but if they vote for our side that is great and all we need. I gather we will be seeing more freepers like yourself in the future.


39 posted on 08/01/2013 8:53:33 AM PDT by amnestynone
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Jews have been here for a long time We allknow of Haym Solomon and Robert Morris’s efforts in financing the American Revolution.


40 posted on 08/01/2013 9:04:45 AM PDT by amnestynone
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To: Zionist Conspirator

So you are a student of the Kaballah as I am(wasp Kabbalah). Very good we have common interests.


41 posted on 08/01/2013 9:04:45 AM PDT by amnestynone
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