Think Government Is Intrusive Now? Wait Until E-Verify Kicks In

Wall Street Journal ^ | 08/03/2013 | John Cochrane

[SeekAndFind]

Massive border security and E-Verify are central provisions of the Senate immigration bill, and they are supported by many in the House. Both provisions signal how wrong-headed much of the immigration-reform effort has become.

E-Verify is the real monster. If this part of the bill passes, all employers will be forced to use the government-run, Web-based system that checks potential employees' immigration status. That means, every American will have to obtain the federal government's prior approval in order to earn a living.

E-Verify might seem harmless now, but missions always creep and bureaucracies expand. Suppose that someone convicted of viewing child pornography is found teaching. There's a media hoopla. The government has this pre-employment check system. Surely we should link E-Verify to the criminal records of pedophiles? And why not all criminal records? We don't want alcoholic airline pilots, disbarred doctors, fraudster bankers and so on sneaking through.

Next, E-Verify will be attractive as a way to enforce hundreds of other employment laws and regulations. In the age of big data, the government can easily E-Verify age, union membership, education, employment history, and whether you've paid income taxes and signed up for health insurance.

The members of licensed occupations will love such low-cost enforcement of their cartels: We can't let unlicensed manicurists prey on unsuspecting customers, can we? E-Verify them! And while the government screens employee applications, they can also check on employers' compliance with all sorts of regulations by looking at the job applications they submit for verification.

[Menehune56]

From the Open Borders crowd at WSJ.

[Vaduz]

E-Verify is a joke if it was used 30% of the people in California would be pot of a job.

[jimpick]

This is another communist agenda item. You will only be able to do the job the government says you are allowed to do.

[Tenacious 1]

I worked at a company that used E-Verify 3 years ago. This article seems to have it wrong (at least back then).

We simply had to enter a social security number into a Fed data base and check to see who it was linked to and if it matched the person we were hiring. If not, no job.

[knarf]

Basseh-baw would cease to exist except in old re-runs ... The Senate and The House would be depleted by at least a third ... the Presidency would be vacated along with its entire cabinet ... I could not buy a car, ‘cause I wouldn’t be allowed a license ... and a TON of et cetera’s

[sport]

Yep! What job you get, if any, will depend upon your political views, party affiliation , physical appearance, and who you screw[ engage with sex with] just like the old Communists system.

One of the last scandals in the former Soviet Union was that the political commissars of the submarine bases required sexual favors of the officer wives before they were allowed off base to visit their families while their husbands were at sea.

[Regulator]

It is just the whine of the cheap labor crowd.

But the criticism of such a system is valid. It is just more government control.

But this is where the modern “civil rights” movement has taken us.

If citizenship is now nothing more than a legal abstraction, and you can be prosecuted for not hiring a guy who doesn’t speak English or looks vaguely “foreign”, then how to comply with the employment laws?

Employers need an impartial third party to make the call.

[Standing Wolf]

[sincerity, average] Wouldn’t it be simpler if all legitimate citizens were to receive unique numbers tattooed inside their left forearms? Any law enforcement officer could tell who’s who and what’s what at a glance. [/sincerity]

[SeekAndFind]

RE: We simply had to enter a social security number into a Fed data base and check to see who it was linked to and if it matched the person we were hiring. If not, no job.

That would be the counter argument to this article, that is — IF eVerify were SIMPLY used like how you described it.

However, we know that government WILL always expand its mission into something else (which he just described in the article ).

As the author worries:

Soon, attending a meeting of a group that is a bit too enthusiastic about the Constitution or gun rights—or being arrested at an Occupy Wall Street rally—could well set off a “check this person” when he applies for a job. If the government can stop you from working, how can you be free to speak out in opposition?

It’s the need for prior permission rather than ex-post prosecution that makes E-Verify so dangerous. A simple delay in processing or resolving an “error” in your data is just as effective as outright denial, cheap to do, and easy to cover up.

Every tyranny silences opponents by controlling their ability to earn a living.

THEREIN LIES THE DANGER.

[freedomfiter2]

Exactly, employers who oppose this are probably crooks.

[Sherman Logan]

I have always believed there is an inherent conflict between conservative goal of keeping illegal aliens from working here, and their objecting to everybody having to carry government “papers.”

Accomplishing #1 pretty much requires implementing #2.

IMO.

[JCBreckenridge]

“That means, every American will have to obtain the federal government’s prior approval in order to earn a living.”

Fantastic article.

“That’s a nice little business you’ve got going on there. Shame if something were to happen.

“Hey you don’t have any SEIU members on staff. No hiring unless it’s SEIU.

[greene66]

Maybe there are some good things about E-Verify and maybe there are some bad things. All I know is that I don’t trust a single word on the topic coming from the duplicitous open-border scumbags at the WSJ.

[JCBreckenridge]

Yeah, just like folks who object to unreasonable search and seizure are probabaly crooks too.

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

That needs to be repeated :

Every tyranny silences opponents by controlling their ability to earn a living.

THEREIN LIES THE DANGER!!

[DoughtyOne]

As an opponent of illegal immigration, it has been my contention that part of a crackdown would be a working verification system, so that employers could avoid hiring them.

We have stated that they shouldn't be able to get work or get services for free.  They should go home.  To that end, I see e-verify as a big help.

Without e-verify, all an employer has to say is there was no way for me to know.

So I guess the question is, do we want to end illegal immigration or not?  I do.

The Wall Street Journal has been humping the leg of illegal immigration for over a decade.  I long ago wrote them off when it comes to sane thought on protecting our nation.

On the one had we have 20 to 35 million illegals in the nation, and the government wants to legalize them ASAP.

On the other hand there is a tool that will help us to encourage them to go back home.

So which is it folks?  Do they stay and work?  Do they take your job or your neighbor's job?  Do they stay and our nation goes down forever, them voting as Democrats?

It's your choice.

Once again the powers that be have found a way to divide us.  And now folks who have sided with me for over a decade, can't pull the trigger when a tool is finally here.

I guess we deserve what we get.  It's why I just don't get worked up over it any longer.  We're conquered.  Deal with it...

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FOLKS, THOSE OF YOU WHO CAN, PLEASE CLICK HERE AND PENCIL IN YOUR DONATION TO HELP END THIS FREEPATHON.  THANK YOU!
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[Mr Rogers]

E-verify works fine. It isn’t perfect, but it doesn’t brand a 666 on your forehead, either. We use it in Arizona. Count on the WSJ to support cheap labor and foreign workers...

[Mr Rogers]

“However, we know that government WILL always expand its mission into something else (which he just described in the article ).”

Yes, and a speed limit law could be modified to require you to drive no more than 3 mph if heading to a church. The ‘government creep’ theory would prevent ALL laws.

So...why do YOU want to hire illegals?

[Georgia Girl 2]

E-Verify is only supposed to verify citizenship status. Anything can be abused but we need some way to make sure employers are not hiring illegals. Otherwise they will do it.

[freedomfiter2]

I work in construction. Want to guess the percentage of contractors who knowingly hire illegals?

[Vaduz]

Welcome to the new C.C.C.P.

[McGavin999]

Every tyranny silences opponents by controlling their ability to earn a living. THEREIN LIES THE DANGER!!

Oh, you mean like the quarterly reports every employer has to send in with the names, social security numbers, and amount earned for each employee? How about those little pieces of paper issued and sent in to the federal government that records every penny earned by honest workers? Do you suppose people can be tracked and controlled by that?

E-Verify is a way to keep the under the table crowd under control. I have no problem with it since the government already has all the information it needs to destroy every honest taxpayer in the country.

[sr4402]

That means, every American will have to obtain the federal government's prior approval in order to earn a living.

You mean it will catch illegal (undocumented Democrat) aliens that the employers aren't supposed to hire?

[JCBreckenridge]

Where does it say in the constitution that employers are responsible to check the immigration status of their employees?

What the constitution actually states is that it is the obligation of the federal government to protect the border. If the federal government isn’t policing the border then what sense does it make to force employers to do their job for them? It’s actually illegal, and a violation of the rights of American citizens.

[JCBreckenridge]

It’s called deportation. When was the last time the federal government deported anyone? It’s not the job of the employer to deport someone - something they have no authority to do.

[ridesthemiles]

Oh, you mean like the quarterly reports every employer has to send in with the names, social security numbers, and amount earned for each employee?”””””

The Federal Quarterly Report- Form 941 hasn’t required the details of names & Soc Sec numbers for about 20 years. State reports often still do. Calif does.

The first chance the Feds get to find a “Non-Match” is when you send in the W-2 forms or 1099 forms before Jan 31 each year.

[reformedliberal]

The members of licensed occupations will love such low-cost enforcement of their cartels: We can’t let unlicensed manicurists prey on unsuspecting customers, can we? E-Verify them!
_____________________________________________

Not so much. These sorts of licensing issues are at the state (maybe even the municipal) level. In my state it is the Department of Registration and Licensing. ALL they care about is the fee. The interpretation of required qualifications is loose. I cannot begin to count the unlicensed massage therapists who sneak by under one or another titling pretexts, even though we have real licensing, not just title protection.

However, I would be happy if they did verify qualifications. A poorly trained and unaccountable massage therapist can injure you or worse. There was a spate of infections traced to untrained manicurists back a few years ago. A cosmetologist or an esthetician without proper training is also a health hazard and there are lawsuits all the times against these professions for severe injury.

As for MDs, I know of two separate incidents in different states where licenses were waivered for various allowable practices with good cause, but both MDs were still allowed to practice if they avoided those procedures/practices and both regained their licenses after time, therapy and reapplication/review.

There is turf guarding, but it is mainly to protect the professions involved from being subjected to broad brush condemnation from a few unscrupulous practitioners.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Believe it or not a lot of people actually do get deported every year. Even Barry’s regime has deported a goodly number. But self deportation is the real answer and if the illegals can’t get a job they will leave on their own. E-Verify is not necessarily a bad thing. Or we could just have everybody show their birth certificate when they apply for a job. Call your Congressman.

As much as I would love to see all the illegals rounded up and kicked out a la Operation Wetback it just ain’t gonna happen. Too many bleeding hearts out there screaming its not fair.

[kneehurts]

0 would not be PRESident if subject to Everify. They used it at my employer and people got walked out. People with access to very sensitive info. Fyou wsj.

[unixfox]

But we STILL can't have voter I.D.

PATHETIC

[JCBreckenridge]

“But self deportation is the real answer”

When welfare is available and EBTs are handed out like candy, self-deportation would only happen if and when welfare and EBTs were eliminated.

“illegals can’t get a job they will leave on their own.”

Nonsense. They’ll simply survive on welfare and EBTs. Not only will E-Verify fail to drive illegal immigrants from America, they will simply ‘shuffle’ them around to other states.

At the cost of vastly increasing the power of the federal government to regulate private hiring. This is bad.

“E-Verify is not necessarily a bad thing.”

It’s unnecessary. If employers did due diligence it would be entirely unnecessary. Most employers do not and want a ‘cheap and easy method’ that saves them from making difficult decisions.

Heck, if I were working as HR, I could easily sort out illegal immigrants from the rest. They are not hard to spot.

“Or we could just have everybody show their birth certificate when they apply for a job. Call your Congressman.”

I have no problem with employers asking for this.

“Too many bleeding hearts out there screaming its not fair.”

So the solution is to vastly increase the power of the federal government? The medicine is worse than the disease. I don’t trust Barry’s regime not to impose illegal mandates (such as forcing RTW to ‘use the union label’, or ensure that ‘political dissidents’ do not get a job. Welcome to the USSA.

[Don Corleone]

The slightest error (Does the Government ever make a mistake?)would subject a person to a lifetime of legal battles with an ignorant bureaucracy just to remain out of prison, let alone earn a living. Ever try to talk to a government employee about anything??

[Whenifhow]

E-Verify is only supposed to verify citizenship status.

and

This is another communist agenda item.
*************

No need for E-Verify now that all of North America is the “Homeland”.

Canada, Mexico become part of U.S. ‘homeland’ during NSA Senate briefing (NAU)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3050361/posts

Chart on the web page shows all of North America as the “homeland”.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/canada-mexico-united-states-identified-homeland-during-senate-192128693.html

[T-Bird45]

My daughter is a manager at a fast-food burger place (not McD/BK/Wendy’s) who told me yesterday that e-Verify has eliminated the illegal kitchen staff for the most part. It’s now local teens/twenties.

[Grampa Dave]

Excellent point:

“E-Verify is a way to keep the under the table crowd under control. I have no problem with it since the government already has all the information it needs to destroy every honest taxpayer in the country.”

Amen, the feds, state and locals have a lot of data on every legal citizen, and it is used basically every day in our current lives.

Even as a retired couple in our 70’s we are monitored and logged into data bases on a regular basis. Below are some examples:

We are in the process of refiing our home. Our FP retired and we have a new doctor. I will be needing some surgery in September with a new doctor in different city. My wife has recently fully retired and is in the process of rolling over her 401k to her established IRA. We had one of our credit cards recently compromised. We pay our federal and state income taxes quarterly and whenever we have an auto Minimum Distribution from our IRAS.

Each one of the above actions and others require a full submission of our SS numbers and a follow up of the last 4 digits whenever we check up on our credit cards or use the health system. We use our Cali drivers’s licenses to use our credit cards or to cash checks.

I can document ancestors arriving in country from the Mayflower and before then. I had ancestors in country before those coming over by ship came over.

In the military, I held a top secret clearance with background checks ran on me and my wife and our families.

Yet if either of us decided to go to work again, we would have to be E-Verified.

There are some, who want cheap labor or to expand a voting block of illegals, who think that E-Verification is illegal.
for the illegals.

In closing, here are your remarks again:

“E-Verify is a way to keep the under the table crowd under control. I have no problem with it since the government already has all the information it needs to destroy every honest taxpayer in the country.”

[BfloGuy]

From the Open Borders crowd at WSJ.

Yes, but the questions raised are legitimate.

[john mirse]

immigration reform, e-verify installed, and Obama's own Social Security number controversy:

Pro-amnesty supporters make a big thing about how illegal immigrants will have to pass Social Security screening by passing the e-verify system.

I think it is a good idea for all persons applying for jobs to pass the e-verify program.

So let's start with President Obama himself.

1. Let's see Obama demonstrate on national tv how the e-verify system will work under the new amnesty bill by putting his own social security number through the e-verify system.

2. Will Obama pass e-verify?

3. Maybe. Maybe not, because as we all know, some people claim that Obama's present Social Security number is a fraud.

4. So I challenge President Obama: Put up or shut up about e-verify by putting your own Social Security number through the e-verify program on national tv to show the American public how easy it is.

5. Right. Don't hold your breath.

[Mr. K]

You mean the E-VERIFY system that Obama fails?

[usurper]

All I know is that I don’t trust a single word on the topic coming from the duplicitous open-border scumbags at the WSJ.

Yep they are squawking because they know that mandatory E-Verify will instantly cut off their access to illegals.

This is why the establishment dems and reps keep shifting the argument back to border enforcement knowing full well that without E-Verify border enforcement has and will always fail.

E-Verify is the strongest border enforcement tool we have and the WSJ knows it.

[PapaNew]

Truth works, fallacy doesn't. Truth stands the test of inquiry, practice and history, fallacy doesn't.

I am all for wise and legitimate means of securing our borders and protecting against threats to our country. Wise and legitimate means you're wisely and constitutionally balancing protection against true threats from others with the very real threat from your own government (which history shows is a greater threat than any other).

We've all seen the questionable government actions in the name of security in creating yet another useless, expensive (OUR money) bureaucracy (Homeland Security) and the abuses and threats toward the American people in the name of security. "Security" is a common excuse totalitarian governments use to gain power. What has apparently not dawned on many is the unrestrained hue and cry against immigration and illegal immigration is yet another opportunity for an even MORE threatening government to take on even MORE power which by definition is LESS freedom for you and I.

The two main arguments I've heard here against immigration (not necessarily illegal immigration) are a socialist argument (essentially, in acquiescence to a socialist state, "We have to pay for them") and that they are Obama voters (a partisan argument against a traditional American value (we're all immigrants) basically unfettered until the 1920's; also a denial that these people may be persuaded, as they were with Reagan, by the stronger argument for freedom against the weaker argument for government dependency).

When a society, even with the best intentions, seeks to curb the non-interfering liberty of others (as I believe immigration to America is), it generally weakens that society. Here, the efforts to curb immigration, even illegal immigration, have opened the door for this Marxist (IMO) administration and sympathetic Congress to threaten the American people with even more power. E-verify is just the latest in a long line of government abuses just waiting to be unleashed upon the American people in the name of security against illegal immigration.

Our rogue government has been slow to reasonably secure our southern borders. This is a legitimate way to curb illegal immigration. Unsecured borders has allowed many illegals in (who BTW actually help us because they do jobs no one else will do in the CA fields below minimum wage so you and I get lower food prices). Reasonable and wise patriots who love our country must ask which is worse: the presence of illegal immigrants or more government intrusion into our lives. I know where I stand on that choice.

ps. One obvious area for immediate deportation is incarcerated illegals.

[Georgia Girl 2]

We were talking jobs and E-Verify not welfare. Of course you have to cut off everything and don’t forget they need to stop being allowed to enroll the kiddies in our free public school system.

Still E-Verify will go a long way toward keeping them out of the workplace. As long as that is what we use it for. Otherwise we will just keep the status quo which IMO is still better than legalizig them all and their trillion member extended families.

Its been great chatting about all this but the reality of the situation is that you have both parties salivating to legalize the illegals. Its quick, its easy and then they can all move on with their lives. So look for Boehner and his little axis of evil, Cantor, McCarthy and Ryan to push through an amnesty/immigration bill above the screams of all of us.

[JCBreckenridge]

“Of course you have to cut off everything”

So why aren’t we cutting off welfare? All E-Verify does is require employers to report back to good ol’ Eric Holder just whom they are hiring and why.

It’s got nothing to do with ‘self-deportation’ and everything to do with expansion of federal government control over the hiring process.

How difficult is it as an employer to screen folks properly? It takes time, yes, but it’s just easy to punch in some buttons and have the machine tell you whether John Smith has a ‘green light’.

Do you not see how susceptible this system is to fraud? What happens when dear King Obama issues SS numbers to his pals? Will you be subject to a discrimination lawsuit for refusing to hire one of his pals who got a ‘green light’?

[JCBreckenridge]

“So look for Boehner and his little axis of evil, Cantor, McCarthy and Ryan to push through an amnesty/immigration bill above the screams of all of us.”

Mandatory E-verify to prevent illegal immigration is like mandatory condom use to prevent pregnancy. Arguing that employers should not hire illegals ignores the question as to how they were able to get here in the first place.

[freedomfiter2]

I think it’s in the same section that requires employers to collect taxes.

[EQAndyBuzz]

I have to laugh. The government couldn’t tie multiple systems together if you spotted them the interfaces and the code.

There are so many variables involved, from an act of congress all the way down to the engineer that needs a firewall opened to the coder that needs permissions to access a programming environment.

The problem isn’t the systems. The problem is who has access to the systems and who they are ultimately working for. All of this is compartmentalized enough that only people at the highest levels who work directly for the administration can access the information that will do the most damage to their political opponents. This is why the rogue agent lie at the IRS fell apart very quickly

I know this brings up Snowden. As for Snowden, when you think about it, everything he said we already knew. Heck, that is the NSA’s job to spy on communications. Just so happens that over the course of the years due to technology the role of the NSA expanded. Anything that bounces off a satellite, uses a hardline or communicates over wireless can be monitored.

I call Snowden a dogwhistle by the administration to take pressure off the other scandals.

[montag813]

In other words: (1) We need our slave laborers and will say anything to keep them - no lie to is too big; (2) if eVerify will cost any business a single penny, then it’s too expensive to prevent $113 billion in ANNUAL welfare, education, healthcare and incarceration costs to the taxpayers from millions of illegal aliens.

[EQAndyBuzz]

Oops.. This is about eVerify. The system works. Just cannot let it get into the wrong hands to be used for political destruction and not its true intention.

[JimRed]

So I challenge President Obama: Put up or shut up about e-verify by putting your own Social Security number through the e-verify program...

Which one? I've heard he has had several, under different names.