Posted on 08/03/2013 10:45:53 PM PDT by grundle
The best educated children in America don't go to school.
Brian Ray, president of the National Home Education Research Institute, compared home schoolers and public school students on the results of three standardized tests -- the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test -- for the 2007-2008 academic year. With public school students at the 50th percentile, home schoolers were at the 89th percentile in reading, the 86th percentile in science, the 84th percentile in language, math and social studies.
(Excerpt) Read more at post-gazette.com ...
what I already knew ping!
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This stat means nothing.
what you need is to take random sample of 100 kids and home school them, like it or not and compare to a random sample of 100 kids who are in public schools, like it or not.
All this stat means is that home schooled kids likely have involved, intelligent parents who are likely wealthier and smarter than the average parents.
Also, the public school scores are dragged down by the scores of blacks and hispanics. I suspect that the home schooled are largely white.
from the article
“Socio-economic factors may have a lot to do with why home schoolers do so much better. Virtually all have a mother and a father who are living together. Nearly two-thirds of fathers and 62 percent of mothers have a bachelor’s degree or higher.”
Furthermore, I suspect that most home schoolers are white, while the blacks and hispanics drag down the scores of the non home schoolers.
Don’t home-schooled kids always win the Spelling Bee nowadays?
Home schooling is the only way the average family has to fight back against the government indoctrination and low learning expectations of government schools. No wonder the government hates it and tries hard to repress home schooling.
But, we are winning. The next round of policy-makers will have a higher percentage of home schooled people and the round after that even more. This is the natural result of better preparation and intelligence.
“Don’t home-schooled kids always win the Spelling Bee nowadays?”
I think they are all Indian Americans.
2008
guerdon
Sameer Mishra
Journal & Courier
West Lafayette, Indiana
[66]
2009
Laodicean
Kavya Shivashankar
The Olathe News
Olathe, Kansas
[67]
2010
stromuhr
Anamika Veeramani
The Plain Dealer
Cleveland, Ohio
[68]
2011
cymotrichous
Sukanya Roy
Times Leader
Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
[69]
2012
guetapens
Snigdha Nandipati
U-T San Diego
San Diego, California
[70]
2013
knaidel
Arvind Mahankali
New York Daily News
New York, New York
True enough, the difference is likely less stark (but I would expect, still noticeable) if we look at similar “socioeconomic” situations across the homeschool and public school models. Still it’s a good illustration of “train up a child in the way he should go” however that is achieved, and yes parental guidance is sacrificed in the public school model. Children have to have a reason why to study, and if those nurturing them care more, they generally perceive a better reason. Which is about as non rocket science as one can get, but it also tells us how to produce better rocket scientists. Just care about them more when they are growing up.
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The keyword for the FREE REPUBLIC HOMESCHOOLERS’ FORUM is frhf.
What we ALL knew already.
Your ignorance of homeschoolers and homeschooling is staggering.
I have yet to meet ANY homeschoolers who are wealthier than average. And I have not found homeschoolers to be any more or less intelligent than public/private school parents.
Homeschoolers are just your average, run of the mill people who want better for their kids than the public indoctrination system pumps out.
Your problem, as with all who dismiss the standardized test results, is that you are using it for the wrong purpose. You are using it as a measure of the intelligence of the child, as opposed to a measure of the success of the schooling method.
Homeschooling works for a lot more reasons than simply inherent intelligence.
You can try to dismiss and excuse away the results of the standardized tests, but they are what they are and show that homeschooling works.
yes but the point is that homeschooling produces better results because the teachers there give a crap and they make sure the kid understands.
there have been cases where a few people were lazy and weren’t doing proper schooling but they were soon found out.
I think you have a point; it’s not the most wealthy who are most highly represented in that set. Money means nothing without being spent wisely. Still for those with an empirical bent, such stats would be helpful so that for those having the object, there is a candid credible answer. Does the HSLDA keep track of such things?
argh... object => objection.
I give disclaimer myself, I was a public school kid as far as grade and secondary was concerned. However my background was exceptional. I have, I believe, a gifted (but not genius) IQ. My mother took pride in my literacy achievements and I was spelling and reading at a grade advanced level before I was in first grade. So one might say I was home preschooled, but without formal lessons.
Exactly my argument. I'm not against home schooling, but the vast majority of parents are quite unqualified to teach. Maybe 20-30% of parents could do a decent job teaching their kids. My own parents would have been totally inadequate. At any rate, my Dad worked and my mother didn't have time with sometimes four or five squalling brats running around the house.
Heh, they didn’t check my girls’ math scores!
Oh, I have. I sometimes go to events at other families' homes and think, "Wow, how the other half lives!"
But it doesn't bother me, because I've cleaned some of those houses, and it's just too much work.
Yea but, has the students need for mental health services been met, phyc care, family intervention, nutritional service like school breakfast lunch and dinner, after hour recreation programs, social service programs, food stamps social secuirty, disability welfare?
Any conservative who still allows their children to attend public schools, is essentially turning them over to Big Brother and his degraded minions.
Quite frankly, it’s child abuse, and an abdication of personal responsibility at this point.
Before anyone flames me for being insensitive to those parents who can’t afford private school for their kids, or who have to have both parents working to make ends meet, let me just say that it’s better to scale back on your lifestyle requirements so that one parent can stay home and devote themselves to the proper rearing and education of the kids.
That’s the path that my family chose more than a decade ago, and my kids are immeasurably better off because of it.
These “involved” parents are **AFTERSCHOOLING***!!!! If you disagree with me then post the studies that will prove me wrong. You can't because NO ONE knows if government schooling even does the job is says it does.
If “involved” parents is the key then maybe, just maybe, taxpayers are WASTING up to $30,000/kid/year by supporting institutional government owned and run indoctrination centers ( oops! “schools”). Maybe these mulit-multi-mulit-million prison-like “schools” are essentially doing NOTHING at all except chewing up lots of tax dollars.
Let's do the study that should have been done **150** YEARS ago!!! We should see exactly where children are learning ( school or home) and who is doing the teaching ( parent, child by doing homework, or tutors).
These studies will never be done because it would put lots of very minimally educated, and talented white collar Democrats out of work, and free millions of kids from the Marxist Borg mind control machine.
By the way,...yeah...I shouting, jumping up and down, and having a fit.
We spend thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars a year on a government “school” BORG MACHINE and no one, absolutely NO ONE, knows if it even works.
What a mouthful of assumptions.
My family home schools, and I'd say we're pretty typical for that demographic. We have a (very) small business, which allows my wife to stay home with the kids and educate them. Even in the best of times, I don't think we've ever made more than $60K a year, so we're not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination.
As far as being smarter than other parents, my wife went to public schools in her youth, and got a rotten education. That didn't stop her from rolling up her sleeves and improving her own education while bringing our kids up through the grades. She's done a remarkable job for someone who can't even spell the word, 'potato'.
Throughout the years we've encountered countless instances where our kids showed a markedly higher level of academic knowledge and skill than their public school counterparts. We don't even question it anymore, we've seen it so often.
I worked (and was often away in another country for weeks or months at a time) and my wife dealt "with sometimes four or five squalling brats disciplined and loved kids running around the house."
Oh, and she also dealt with living in Africa where the water supply while we were in town was unreliable, sometimes milk, cheese & flour were nowhere to be found and our 6 year old came home from playing at a friend's house with the news that a cobra had reared at them. When not in town and living in the bush, she dealt with cooking on a "3 stone fire" and wild critters coming into the tent through a broken zipper.
Between them, our four (partially) home-schooled kids have 5 bachelors degrees and a Masters & 2/3rds. (BTW, neither my wife nor I have degrees)
We have friends whose 6 children were/are all home schooled and extremely successful. The father is a long distance truck driver. The mother broke her back in a car accident during this time. They set their priorities and lived by them.
Nearly everyone can do this, if they choose to do so. There is a whole network of friends, other home schoolers and educational material for support.
In the words of the eminent 20th century philosopher, Roger Miller, "All ya gotta do is put your mind to it. Knuckle down, buckle down, do it, do it, do it!"
BUMP!!
BTW, why should it be illegal for your kid to ‘home-school’ next door? Why can’t a person who is home schooling take in a few neighbor kids too?
Just a thought
Yes, indeed! Some parents are too distracted, too drug addicted, too illiterate, too innumerate, too materialistic, too poor, too stupid, too mentally ill, too greedy, too physically ill, too inept, too foolish, too uncaring, too burdened, too divorced, single parents by choice, too undisciplined...etc....to homeschool.
The children of these dysfunction parents ( or single mom by choice) to homeschool. But....guess what? They aren't doing well in institutional government run and Marxist-Borg controlled institutional schools either!
Bump!
This is worth the read.
They can, in some states. Current North Carolina law allows two families to form a home school.
More than that, you'd have to establish a private school under a different set of regulations, but it's been done with as few as ten students.
It's simply impossible for any government or private school teacher to know, love and serve a child, like a parent does, or to compete with a 24/7 tutor.
Nevertheless, there are many single parents, and some parents who are abusive, who can't homeschool, and should be provided with school vouchers. But there is absolutely no justification, under our Constitution, for our current school funding system.
Homeschoolers now represent 5% of the school-age population, the number having doubled in the last 15 years. In another ten years, the number will equal the private school population (10%). At that time, one out of five children will have escaped the schoolag archipelago. That's enough for a social revolution.
I call it the Marxist run Borg machine.
Quite frankly, it’s child abuse, and an abdication of personal responsibility at this point.
It is more than child abuse in the physical and mental sense. It is **spiritual abuse! The studies are plain enough! Those children of active Christian families who attend school are far, far, far more like to abandon their faith than those who are homeschooled!!! Parents who send their children to godless, Marxist-Borg machine, indoctrination centers will answer to God.
Before anyone flames me for being insensitive to those parents who can’t afford private school for their kids, or who have to have both parents working to make ends meet, let me just say that it’s better to scale back on your lifestyle requirements so that one parent can stay home and devote themselves to the proper rearing and education of the kids.
ILLITERACY AND INNUMERACY IS BETTER than turning a child over to the Marxist-run and godless BORG MACHINE. ( Can you tell that I really feel strongly about this?)
That’s the path that my family chose more than a decade ago, and my kids are immeasurably better off because of it.
Personally, I have made a decision. Marxist-run, godless, and Borg machine indoctrination is sooooooo EVIL for the child that I will NOT have government school teacher or worker for a friend. They are too evil, too stupid, or too much of a Useful Idiot to have as a friend. I don't have abortion mill assistants for friends either, ( even if they do save a baby or two in their careers.)
At that time, one out of five children will have escaped the schoolag archipelago. That’s enough for a social revolution.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Will it come in time to save this nation? I hope so.
The wealthy people I know send their kids to private schools, or live in affluent towns with the proverbial "great school system." < snort>
The homeschoolers I know are generally middle-income. I don't know how smart they are.
I can also tell you that my wife would have to be the last person you would choose to homeschool. She doesn't have a great deal of patience. But somehow, we managed to get through. Our oldest just graduated. It's one decision I will NEVER regret.
Same here. I've even snipped my connection to family members who work for the government and its related tentacles.
Over the long haul, I've found that their mindset and societal orientation is so out of kilter with our Founding Ideals, that they're totally alien to me. They are quite literally, domestic enemies of America, and I'll have nothing to do with them.
You forgot the free condoms, homosexual instruction in the most intimate, detail, free trips and secret trips to an abortion center, and morning-after pills on demand. And....Of course, instruction in every pagan religion with the mention of Christianity banned.
I think if you took any classroom, be it public or homeschool, and filled it with a one teacher per every couple of kids, there would be high tests scores.
Yep! Contact with these people is just too draining. I feel sucked dry after being with them even a minimal amount of time. They are dark,..like a spiritual black hole.
Because of this homeschooling is elitist and racist.
Although your points are all well founded, I think there is little doubt that homeschooling accelerates learning.
Because my wife and I work full time, we have sent our children to private Catholic shool. They’ve done quite well. But when I help them with their homework, I am left with a solid feeling that I could teach them the same material in <50% of the time.
It is hard to beat learning at your best pace and having a personal tutor.
I could believe it for the most part. I do know a very much Christian lady who had been a schoolteacher and to my observation she just let the NEA stuff roll off her back. Like the bible says, the light has shined in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome/comprehended it. However anyone without a firm foundation in that position is going to give in pretty quickly. The drumbeat is just too systematic and intense.
Probably not, but at least it will form the nucleus of a counter-revolution.
Half my family is from Poland, and I can see how 40 years of suffering under socialism/communism purified the country, spiritually. The country is now very strong.
But of course, the corruption of Western culture is now beginning to seep in.
It's an endless struggle.
I don't know what research would show today, but when my wife and I began homeschooling in about 2000, the research showed that the median family income of homeschoolers was lower than the population as a whole, primarily because homeschooling families seldom have a second wage earner in the household.
Other than that, the “criticisms” you list are valid. Sort of. Except that they're irrelevant.
The reason why folks do this kind of research is because critics have often said that homeschoolers just can't be providing a quality education for their children.
How can folks who are not professional teachers, they say, not rigorously trained in the pedagogical sciences, do a better job of teaching than professional teachers, who spend grueling years learning and honing their craft (ROFLMAO)?
This research answers the question: Yes, we DO manage to overcome all our handicaps and lacunae in the pedagogical sciences to produce superior educational results.
One of the other accusations against homeschoolers is that we're all just trying to skirt the truancy laws, that we're likely to be LESS involved than other parents.
In fact, the laws of many states are punitive toward homeschoolers with the excuse that the state must heavily regulate homeschoolers to make sure that 1) the children will receive a quality education and 2) that parents won't just goof off and make no effort to educate their children, and take homeschooling as an excuse to be less involved with their children.
It's a little hypocritical for the non-homeschooling folks to then say that this research “means nothing” because, of course we'll do a better job, because, well, obviously, homeschoolers are MORE involved with their children than other parents.
sitetest
I very much agree with that. I think I'm a lot saner because I refuse to get sucked into their orbits.
The stat doesn’t mean “nothing”.
The report really does communicate useful information about a sample. It’s a logical fallacy to assume that just because a sample differs from the population at large that analyzing the sample is worthless.
Now, it would also be a logical fallacy to assume that education can significantly improve outcomes - that subjecting the wider population to the conditions of the sample population would elicit the same results.
“All this stat means is that home schooled kids likely have involved, intelligent parents who are likely wealthier and smarter than the average parents.”
That’s one of the useful things the study illustrates.
Given that recent studies of twins reared apart indicate that adult IQ is somewhere in the range of 70%+ to 90% genetically determined, and that childhood IQ variations due to educational environment tend to disappear in adulthood, and given that the 30% to 10% of IQ that is environmentally determined is determined least by education and far more by childhood nutrition and gestational environment (fetal alcohol syndrome for example), then one of the better predictive measures of a person’s cognitive power would be to look at said person’s biological parents and rate them on intelligence and involvement.
Much like looking at, for example, Eagle Scouts, home schooling isn’t necessarily about the effects the program would have on a child or young adult so much as the fact that the sieving process involved in completing the process weeds out a lot of individuals without the necessary self-discipline and inherent ability.
That doesn’t mean that actually quantifying the difference in test scores between home-schooled children and the wider population is worthless, far from it. Even if a sieving process is responsible for the massive differences noted, it is still useful to have an objective categorization that places home-schooled students somewhere on the spectrum from latch-key kids to pampered preppies.
For example, imagine that as an employer you have limited time and resources available for interviewing potential new hires. As you sit at your desk and sift through a pile of resumes for a new entry-level position, you compare and contrast two resumes. Both applicants have the requisite 4-year degree for the position (both from state colleges), however one applicant is a home-schooled Eagle Scout with an honorable discharge from the Air Force, and the other applicant is a Detroit Public School graduate.
Which person would you schedule for an interview first? Do you think that knowing home-school graduates tend to score highly on achievement tests, and tend to be raised by intelligent and involved parents as well, has some value for a decision-maker?
Exactly, it's that sacred lifestyle gets in the way. Got to have their stuff, their trophy home and a second car shining in the driveway, made possible by the dear government babysitters. Welfare you pay for, welfare you're entitled to!
I have no idea.
The real effectiveness of homeschooling and the real effectiveness public schooling would be shown if you took a sampling of homeschooled kids and compared them to a sampling of public school only kids whose parents had no involvement in their education.
The public school kids who do well, do so in spite of the public education, not because of it. They are the ones whose parents are involved and we will hear teachers time and again, even the public school defenders who come on these threads and harass homeschoolers, admit that the kids whose parents are involved at the ones who do better.
They themselves tell us that it’s the parents, not their own system of education which is the difference.
An indictment of their chosen profession if I ever heard one by their own admission.
And you know that how?
Just what exactly makes a person *qualified* to teach?
You can't honestly think that it's a teaching degree, because we know better. Teaching degrees don't teach aspiring teachers to teach and I have had teachers tell me that to my face.
And they are proved wrong every single time the stats come out.
Homeschoolers not only can but DO.
There was someone on FR not too long ago whose accountant husband showed a co-worker that if she stayed home with her kids, that she would be coming out ahead financially by dropping her job and staying home with the kids, going from a two income family to a one income family.
Dropping into a lower tax bracket, fewer expenses for work clothes, gas, convenience foods, babysitting, etc, all gave them MORE expendable income instead of less.
Most children have a desire to learn; a desire that it takes years to stifle.
I taught mine more music than I am “qualified” to teach. Often on instruments that I scarcely know one end from another.
I’m convinced a hopeless dyslexic could teach a child to read. All one needs is reading material and encouragement. Parental attention is the essential sunlight.
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