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MILLER: ‘Docs vs. Glocks’ showdown in Florida
The Washington Times ^ | August 5, 2013 | Emily Miller

Posted on 08/05/2013 8:40:00 AM PDT by jazusamo

Physicians have no business interrogating patients about their guns

In the wake of the George Zimmerman verdict, President Obama and other anti-gun advocates have called for changing Florida’s pro-Second Amendment laws. Their chances of getting the “stand your ground” statute overturned are slim, but the anti-gun groups are making significant progress in the Sunshine State in allowing activist doctors to push their agenda to disarm families.

A federal appeals court heard oral arguments on July 18 in the case that has become known as “Docs vs. Glocks.” The issue before the court is whether a patient’s right to privacy and protection from doctors who ask inappropriate political questions about what firearms are in the family home trumps the health care providers’ rights to ask and to keep records of whatever they want.

The Firearm Owners Privacy Act, which Gov. Rick Scott signed into law in June 2011, says that doctors should not ask families about whether they own guns. But if they choose to do so, and a patient feels the doctor has harassed or discriminated against them, he can file a complaint with the medical board so that the doctor’s peers can decide if the accusation is legitimate.

“The wording in the law is ‘should refrain,’” Florida Solicitor General Allen Winsor told the justices of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, according to The Associated Press.”It’s not mandating anything. It’s recommending. The use of the term is critical in this case.”

The issue came about after repeated cases surfaced of children being asked by doctors if there was a gun in the home. During the legislative process, one mother said her pediatrician refused to continue treating her child if she did not respond to questions about firearms at home.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; doctors; govtabuse; guncontrol; secondamendment; syg; wewillnotcomply; youwillnotdisarmus
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1 posted on 08/05/2013 8:40:00 AM PDT by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

In a completely unrelated development, all medical records are to be stored electronically and made accessible to the Federal government. So medical records would be as good as a registry.

Just a coinky-dink, I’m sure...

The onlly proper answer to this question is “None of your damn business”.


2 posted on 08/05/2013 8:43:12 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Gun Control Haiku: Say "Registration" / And they call you paranoid / So say "Privacy")
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To: Haiku Guy
Yes. And, you can lie to a doctor all you want as long as you're not trying to get drugs. Many docs are required to ask questions they do not want to ask. Many, probably most, resent the situation.

Keep this in mind when you are tempted to be a smart ass or even threatening--bad, bad idea. that could go down on your medical record, too.

3 posted on 08/05/2013 8:46:00 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Haiku Guy

Absolutely, that’s mentioned and the Brady Campaign tried to poo poo it in court.


5 posted on 08/05/2013 8:46:18 AM PDT by jazusamo ("I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white." T. Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

Has anybody ever just grabbed their medical file from the Doc’s office and left?

Oh, I know they insist “you can’t do that!”, but it’s not true.


6 posted on 08/05/2013 8:53:33 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: jazusamo
“The wording in the law is ‘should refrain,’” Florida Solicitor General Allen Winsor told the justices of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, according to The Associated Press.”It’s not mandating anything. It’s recommending. The use of the term is critical in this case.”

So "should refrain" is not an order, but "we don't need you to do that" is?

7 posted on 08/05/2013 8:57:23 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: G Larry

I tried that when we moved from one state to another. They would not give it to me, said they would send it to my new Doc when requested from s/he. I said I wanted it to take to them myself, they still wouldn’t give it to me. I suppose I could have eventually gotten it by fighting but they know full well most people won’t because they send it to the new Doc.


8 posted on 08/05/2013 8:59:20 AM PDT by jazusamo ("I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white." T. Sowell)
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Please bump the Freepathon or click above and donate or become a monthly donor!

9 posted on 08/05/2013 9:01:43 AM PDT by jazusamo ("I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white." T. Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

Don’t think for a minute that your private medical records under Obamacare won’t end up in a government data base and be used for your “background check” to purchase or own a firearm. Feeling depressed at the loss of a loved one and getting a short term anti-depressant prescription...no guns for you. Taking a prescription medication that in rare instances from some obscure government study might cause you to have suicidal thoughts...no guns for you. I can even see gun grabbing goon squads just showing up at your door because of something in your medical records the government deems might cause you to be a “risk”. The Second Amendment might be another victim of Obamacare.


10 posted on 08/05/2013 9:06:55 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: Haiku Guy

NOYFB is better. And they can ask all the questions they want. There is no guarantee that any response is a) truthful or b) accurate.

I believe that on consent forms you can specify who does NOT get your medical records. It would be interesting to find out what happens if you object to the feds getting your medical information. Looks like this case decides you can’t object.

However, HIPAA is still in force and the doctor could be sued if he gives out your medical information to the feds. I spoke to a Medicare rep and she was unaware of the contradiction, nor what doctors will wind up doing.

And to the NSA trolls, FU.


11 posted on 08/05/2013 9:07:15 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: G Larry

you can grab the paper... doesn’t mean you’ve grabbed the ‘file’

your ‘file’ is a set of electronic records in a national database

consider lying about your name to confuse any record keeping. of course, any blood taken can be sequenced... which results in your national id... otherwise known as your DNA


12 posted on 08/05/2013 9:17:25 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: Mamzelle

Doctor asks questions, simply do what Obama would do. LIE.How could this administration disagree with that?


13 posted on 08/05/2013 9:21:25 AM PDT by Quickgun (I got here kicking,screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Haiku Guy
"The only proper answer to this question is “None of your damn business”."

Ah. So the doctor writes, "This person is angry because he cussed at me. And because he didn't say he didn't, he clearly has guns in the house. Suggest SWAT get over to his house and bust down the door before he uses those guns."

14 posted on 08/05/2013 9:23:38 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: MeganC

“In due time enough people will simply start shooting doctors who ask questions like this and that’ll squelch this BS faster than any poorly written law.”

I understand the emotion behind your statement but do you really want to make this statement?


15 posted on 08/05/2013 9:24:12 AM PDT by Cyman
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To: tacticalogic
tacticalogic :" So "should refrain" is not an order, but "we don't need you to do that" is? "

I prefer to follow the suggested quote of the director of NSA in his appearance before Congress ,
and offer " the least untruthful answer " , and let them figure it out for themselves.

16 posted on 08/05/2013 9:26:18 AM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt (“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” - Ronald Reagan)
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To: NTHockey

Lie to the doctor, then stop using him. Pretty simple to me.Lots, if not most doctors are firearms owners/sportsmen who won’t ask.


17 posted on 08/05/2013 9:29:25 AM PDT by Quickgun (I got here kicking,screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Cyman

The poster stated a 3rd-person extrapolation so really, nobody G-A-F.


18 posted on 08/05/2013 9:33:27 AM PDT by Justa
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To: Haiku Guy; All

“..The onlly proper answer to this question is “None of your damn business”....”

Actually, the ONLY proper answer is “No, why would you ask that?” with a slight air of indigence.

Saying “none of your damn business” automatically implies you DO own, and the doc writes it up as such.

Giving up ANY information does you no good.

If they want that information so badly let THEM go digging for it in the databases that they’re not supposed to have.


19 posted on 08/05/2013 9:35:32 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Cyman

“I understand the emotion behind your statement but do you really want to make this statement?”

Yes, I do. And it isn’t ‘emotion’ on my part, it’s just logic. Once SWAT raids start following on after people visit doctors who insist on asking these questions it won’t take people long to connect the dots between the doctor and the SWAT team that busts in their door at 3am in the morning, shoots the dog, and then ransacks the house looking for legally owned firearms.

In the Revolutionary War it wasn’t just British soldiers who incurred the wrath of Americans but the tax collectors and bureaucrats who gave those soldiers their target lists.

If some doctors decide to come down on the wrong side of liberty then they’ll have picked sides and they’ll have to deal with consequences of violating their oath of, “First, do no harm.”

If their questions cause harm to people then they’ll deserve whatever happens to them as a consequence of those actions.

Bear in mind, I’m not saying that I’ll do any such thing nor am I encouraging it. I’m just saying that the results of this BS will be absolutely predictable especially in Florida where certain of their ethnic groups are noted for dispensing their own unique forms of justice.

My advice to Florida doctors who just can’t help but ask such questions is to find a new career or perhaps move to a state where they’re less likely to have problems. Massachussetts is a good place for statists.


20 posted on 08/05/2013 9:37:46 AM PDT by MeganC (A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll never need one again.)
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To: NTHockey
"NOYFB is better. And they can ask all the questions they want. There is no guarantee that any response is a) truthful or b) accurate."

I think the better response is just to lie and say "no guns". Telling the doctor to MYOFB will just get you put down as a gun owner and probably a "belligerent" gun owner at that. And this will become part of your permanent federal digital medical records. (ie. gun registry). As much as it hurts, in this instance one should "just say no."

21 posted on 08/05/2013 9:39:13 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: G Larry

The actual medical file is the doctors property. You can get a copy of it but if you try to walk out they’ll report it stolen. They have to as it would be reportable to HHS.


22 posted on 08/05/2013 9:42:23 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Haiku Guy

No, the proper answer is: “I will have my lawyer call you to discuss the issue with you.”


23 posted on 08/05/2013 9:46:10 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: circlecity

The next step will be making giving false information to a doc a felony.


24 posted on 08/05/2013 9:46:48 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: jazusamo

Hmmm. Seems every doctor in the country has become a feral government informant. I wonder how that feels.


25 posted on 08/05/2013 9:53:07 AM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: jazusamo

Tell the “docs” to f*** off.


26 posted on 08/05/2013 9:53:52 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
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To: Standing Wolf

Most of the docs i talk with hate it. There are only about 30% which support it.


27 posted on 08/05/2013 9:55:41 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: jazusamo
Years ago I got the firearms question from my doctor. It was on a questionnaire along with a lot of other prying questions about my sexual practices, past drug use and so on. I left that entire section blank. When the doctor examined the form she asked me "did you forget to fill out this part?" I responded "no." She looked puzzled for an instant and then sensibly let the matter drop.

Is there a state where the doctor can compel you to answer these questions?

28 posted on 08/05/2013 9:58:06 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
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To: Haiku Guy

A better answer might be, “you’re fired.”


29 posted on 08/05/2013 10:02:15 AM PDT by DPMD
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To: jboot
Is there a state where the doctor can compel you to answer these questions?

I honestly don't know but doubt it. I believe that may change with the full implementation of 0care and future changes to it. One more very good reason to kill 0care.

30 posted on 08/05/2013 10:04:04 AM PDT by jazusamo ("I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white." T. Sowell)
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To: Quickgun
Lie to the doctor

Or you can play the legal/political game:

Do what I did. Set up a "gun trust", a legal entity spelled out in a document. Put your title 1 firearms in Appendix A, your Title 2 firearms in Appendix B.

When any agent of the government asks you, "Do you own (or have) any firearms?".
Legally and ethically you can say, "No. I do not own any firearms, nor do I have any". (That is the truth, because your Gun Trusts owns/has them).

Now if they ask you "Do you have ACCESS to a firearm, you can always say, "I'm a law abiding citizen, so I guess if I went to a gunstore and bought one, I could quickly get access to one".

31 posted on 08/05/2013 10:17:00 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: sten

“your ‘file’ is a set of electronic records in a national database”

Not mine kiddo!!!

My medical records are NOT in an electronic format and they are NOT in a “national database”!!!

That’s what Obama wants, but it aint so yet!

Even if they scanned the written files, it’s pretty hard to search on the Doc’s handwriting!!

Do you know of some effort to type all that material in?


32 posted on 08/05/2013 10:20:45 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: driftdiver
I haven't been arrested yet!

It's been many years, but I got my entire ORIGINAL primary care folder at one time.

I would still advocate firing your Doc, rather than answering such intrusive and irrelevant questions.

33 posted on 08/05/2013 10:25:44 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: jazusamo

Yeah, we had to pass it just to find out what is in it. There’s always fun new things coming out of the Obamacare box...


34 posted on 08/05/2013 10:26:26 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
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To: jazusamo

Importantly, this was started by the radical liberal American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), who are strictly agenda politics, not care of children.

It got so bad that a former AAP president founded the American College of Pediatricians (ACP), which supports traditional values and emphasizes medical care for children, not political agenda.

Truthfully, new parents should be advised that when shopping for a Pediatrician, that they should make sure they are ACP not AAP.


35 posted on 08/05/2013 10:27:49 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Be Brave! Fear is just the opposite of Nar!)
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To: The Great RJ

Overweight?
High blood pressure?
Hich cholesterol?
Homophobic?
Smoker?
Drink alcohol more than once a week?

Sorry. You can’t legally own a firearm...for your own good.


36 posted on 08/05/2013 10:28:29 AM PDT by subterfuge (CBS NBC ABC FOX AP-- all no different than Pravda.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Good info Bump.


37 posted on 08/05/2013 10:33:55 AM PDT by jazusamo ("I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white." T. Sowell)
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To: NFHale

The correct answer is “non-applicable in this context” and move on. Do not elaborate.


38 posted on 08/05/2013 10:35:46 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: G Larry

I would fire them too. I would not want to be associated with an anti-gun doc. there are two many ways they can cause you problems plus their judgement is already suspect.


39 posted on 08/05/2013 10:36:18 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: G Larry

I work with hospitals every single day. If you’ve been to a hospital or a doctor your records have most likely been scanned into their medical records database.

They are most likely working on a link between their database and the states Health Information Exchange (HIE) system.

Each state is working to connect that HIE to the IRS.

Its significantly more complicated then this shows but hopefully you’ll get the idea. Eventually written records will be completely replaced with electronic records. For key pieces of information there will be alerts built into the system, weight, smoker, diabetic, and probably gun owner (my guess).


40 posted on 08/05/2013 10:42:03 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: G Larry

medical records have been getting transcribed for years

unless your doctor is in the country and has no computer access, your records have been entered in some form or another.

whether or not they are in full compliance with 0bamacare is a different issue. all medical records are in various degrees of compliance already


41 posted on 08/05/2013 10:47:05 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: jazusamo
I love it.

The people are just getting what they deserve.

Private medicine has been delivering the goods for more than 100 years.

But, people want it free, and they want it perfect, and always risk-free. All three are not possible in the real world.

So what do they do? They appeal to the government and try to enact the impossible, also known as socialism. Thereby punishing the doctors, and cutting off their own noses to spite their faces.

So be happy, people! This government micromanagement and screwing up an excellent system is exactly what you wanted. Enjoy!

42 posted on 08/05/2013 10:53:49 AM PDT by caddie
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To: NFHale

Correct


43 posted on 08/05/2013 11:09:39 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Dole are sure losers. No more!)
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To: All
The Second Amendment Sisters website has a great "Physician Affidavit" should one be needed...

Physician Affidavit

44 posted on 08/05/2013 11:28:37 AM PDT by Prov1322 (Enjoy my wife's incredible artwork at www.watercolorARTwork.com! (This space no longer for rent))
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To: Prov1322

Went to that link and received a “404 Error - Does not exist”.


45 posted on 08/05/2013 11:47:27 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITIZEN: BORN IN THE USA OFCITIZEN PARENTS)
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To: SatinDoll; Prov1322

Went to that link and received a “404 Error - Does not exist”.
. . . . .

Remove the “/” at the end of the URL and it will work. . .

http://www.2asisters.org/PhysicianAffidavit.pdf


46 posted on 08/05/2013 11:59:14 AM PDT by deks ("...the battle...liberty against the overreach of the federal government" Ken Cuccinelli)
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To: deks

Thank you!


47 posted on 08/05/2013 12:07:39 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITIZEN: BORN IN THE USA OFCITIZEN PARENTS)
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To: Quickgun

It’s called regulation and “standard of care”— docs are more conservative than the GOP senate. So the government can’t make YOU do things you don’t want to do? Well go ahead and get nasty to your doctor. Knock yourself out.


48 posted on 08/05/2013 12:09:11 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: G Larry

Go ahead. Grab the iPad and run! Sometimes FRs can be so idiotic I think they must be liberal plants.


49 posted on 08/05/2013 12:11:16 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: NVDave

Just say no with no expressed emotion. All those other evasions and reactions will register as an imputed ‘yes’.


50 posted on 08/05/2013 12:11:28 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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