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Government shutdown won't shut Obamacare: Report
CNN Money ^ | 08/05/2013 | Jennifer Liberto

Posted on 08/05/2013 8:52:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Edited on 08/05/2013 8:52:50 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Obamacare would keep running even in a government shutdown, a new congressional report suggests.

The new health care law draws funding from sources that are not subject to the congressional budget process, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service. Also, the revenue collected under Obamacare is considered to be part of a category that ensures the "safety of human life or the protection of property," which makes it immune to government shutdowns, the report said.


(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 113th; abortion; bhohealthcare; deathcare; deathpanels; defundobamacare; federalspending; government; obamacare; romneycare; shutdown; socializedmedicine; zerocare
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1 posted on 08/05/2013 8:52:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I say let it go forward and let people feel the effects of Obamacare. Just make sure that the Dems get credit for it.


2 posted on 08/05/2013 9:01:00 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: SeekAndFind

Just as the Dems “deemed” it passed, why don’t the Republicans deem it de-funded?


3 posted on 08/05/2013 9:02:14 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: WILLIALAL
I say let it go forward and let people feel the effects of Obamacare. Just make sure that the Dems get credit for it.

Wouldn't do any good. Let's say you do that, and it pisses off sufficient voters to overcome Obama's vote fraud machine and elect a slew of Republicans. They might do less damage during their own terms than a corresponding number of Dems would (even that may be questionable), but when was the last time you saw R's dismantle a big Dem program, much less punish those responsible and lock in the dismantlement in some way?

4 posted on 08/05/2013 9:04:37 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: SeekAndFind; stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; Impy; NFHale; BillyBoy; ...
RE :” Government shutdown won't shut Obamacare: Report
Obamacare would keep running even in a government shutdown, a new congressional report suggests.
...The new health care law draws funding from sources that are not subject to the congressional budget process, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service. Also, the revenue collected under Obamacare is considered to be part of a category that ensures the “safety of human life or the protection of property,” which makes it immune to government shutdowns, the report said.”

Yep, shutdown government services to take a stand on Obama-care spending with Obama-care spending unaffected by shutdown because its exempt from it.

Reminds me of 1996 after three weeks of shutdowns the GSAs got back salaries for all three weeks paying some overtime.(caught me by surprise at time)

Imagine how that would play in media and public opinion...

5 posted on 08/05/2013 9:06:19 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: WILLIALAL

RE: I say let it go forward and let people feel the effects of Obamacare. Just make sure that the Dems get credit for it.

I think you are articulating the Tom Coburn position.

I’m surprised you are not getting grief from the the DEFUND OBAMACARE crowd here in FR.


6 posted on 08/05/2013 9:06:44 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: WILLIALAL; SeekAndFind
RE :”I say let it go forward and let people feel the effects of Obamacare. Just make sure that the Dems get credit for it.”

Of course its near impossible to take away freebees once given out.

The GOP should pass a bill that takes away Obama’s ability to delay parts of it or give exemptions, hell, the GOP w Dems just begged Obama to exempt congress (themselves) in-spite of the law.

7 posted on 08/05/2013 9:11:53 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: SeekAndFind; WILLIALAL
RE :”I’m surprised you are not getting grief from the the DEFUND OBAMACARE crowd here in FR.”

I think this post above will take some wind out of their sails.

In a shutdown Defund everything but the stuff that the GOP claims we must cut.(Obamacare, SS, medicare, medicaid, food stamps)

I can imagine this one going badly, again.

8 posted on 08/05/2013 9:15:15 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t get it. Congress appropriates money to the government. But if it doesn’t then the government can get it elsewhere? Where is that?

Of course, I don’t get much of anything anymore.


9 posted on 08/05/2013 9:17:47 AM PDT by VerySadAmerican (If you vote for evil because you can't see evil, you ARE evil!)
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To: All

Well, if not funding it doesn’t hurt obamacare, then they should go ahead and defund it...no harm done, and the libs can’t get mad, because after all, obamacare is not affected.


10 posted on 08/05/2013 9:17:55 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: Madame Dufarge

FROM SENATOR TOM COBURN’s WEBSITE:

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=1933ce98-a8cf-48bc-af5c-b222c18fcb1d

CRS: “Government Shutdown” Does Not Shut Down Obamacare

On July 29, 2013 the Congressional Research Service (CRS)
issued a memo to Dr. Coburn at his request for information on “the potential effects of a funding lapse and
related government shutdown on implementation of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.” The memo specifically addressed several questions he posed.

The memo reveals that if government were shut down, funding for Obamacare would still continue. In other words, shutting down the federal government does not shut down Obamacare.

This document is a summary of direct quotes from that memo.
__________

The Administration Can “Exercise Some Discretion” Implementing Obamacare “In the context of a prospective or actual lapse in appropriations and government
shutdown, several presidential administrations have interpreted the nature and scope of restrictions on government activities during a shutdown and any related exceptions.

These interpretations….identified specific exceptions that govern federal agency decisions regarding which operations may continue during a government shutdown under certain circumstances. These exceptions arguably have been read broadly, resulting in a situation where executive agencies may exercise some discretion. It is important to note that past views and practice in the executive branch do not
necessarily constrain or guide what may happen in the event of a future funding lapse and shutdown.”

The Obama Administration Already Had Obamacare Funding Plans Online “The near-impasses [in FY2011 and FY2012] also resulted in executive branch agencies posting a substantial amount of information on the Internet about their plans
for a potential shutdown, including information about excepted and non-excepted personnel and activities. These plans might provide insight into questions of whether
government activities at specific agencies and programs, and in specific situations, would continue or cease….”

A “Government Shutdown” Does Not Cause All Government Functions To Cease“A funding gap also may occur any time that interim funding in a continuing resolution
(CR) expires and another CR or regular appropriations bill is not enacted immediately thereafter. When a funding gap occurs, the federal government begins a “shutdown” of
the affected activities, including the furlough of certain personnel and curtailment of agency activities and services. There are some exceptions to this process, however, as
explained further…..In 1980 and 1981, [sic], U.S. Attorney General Benjamin R. Civiletti issued two opinions that more strictly interpreted the Antideficiency Act in the context of a funding gap, along with the law’s exceptions.

There Are Four Types of Funding That Do Not Cease During Shutdown.The GAO has summarized the 1981 Civiletti opinion as identifying four sub-types of “authorized by law” exceptions. Those include:

1. “Activities funded with appropriations of budget authority that do not expire at the end of one fiscal year, such as multiple-year and no-year appropriations”

2. “Activities authorized by statutes that expressly permit obligations in advance of appropriations, such as contract authority.”

3. “Activities ‘authorized by necessary implication from the specific terms of duties that have been imposed on, or of authorities that have been invested in, the agency.’ The Civiletti opinion illustrated this abstract concept by citing the situation when benefit payments under an entitlement program are funded from other-than-one-year appropriations…but the salaries of personnel who
administer the program are funded by one-year appropriations … the Attorney General offered the view that continued availability of money for benefit payments would necessarily imply that continued administration of the program is
authorized by law at some level and therefore excepted from the Antideficiency Act.”

4. Obligations “necessarily incident to presidential initiatives undertaken within his constitutional powers,” such as the power to grant pardons and reprieves.

“Substantial” Obamacare Implementation Would Continue In a Shutdown

“It appears that substantial ACA implementation might continue during a lapse in annual appropriations that resulted in a temporary government shutdown for two reasons.

The first is that the federal government will be able to
rely on sources of funding other than annual discretionary appropriations to support implementation activities, including multiple-year and no-year discretionary funds still available for obligation as well as mandatory funds…..The HHS shutdown contingency plan that was
prepared in anticipation of a possible government shutdown in FY2012 indicated that ACA implementation activities at CMS would continue because of the mandatory funding provided in the law.”

What About Obamacare Implementation Funding From Other Sources?

“The Administration’s FY2014 budget requested $1.4 billion in new funds for CMS Program Management for ongoing ACA implementation activities, plus an additional $400 million for the IRS to administer ACA’s tax-related provisions, including the premium tax credits. In the event that congressional appropriators do not provide any of
these funds, or in the event of a temporary lapse in discretionary appropriations that results in a government shutdown, it seems likely that the Administration will continue to rely on alternative sources of funding to support ACA implementation activities.”

Obamacare’s Subsidies for Health Coverage Would Continue During a Shutdown“Like many other tax credits, the monies used to fund such provisions are permanently appropriated outside of the annual appropriations process. Therefore, the funds for such credits would continue to be available via this permanent appropriation during a government shutdown caused by a lapse in annual appropriations….it may be likely that at least some of the eligibility and processing functions associated with payment of this credit might continue during a government shutdown, even if the salaries of the federal employees who would be making those determinations are paid from annual appropriations that have lapsed. This is because the IRS could rely upon that portion of the Civiletti opinion which indicates that continued availability of money for benefit payments would necessarily imply that continued administration of the program is
authorized by law despite the lapse in discretionary funding.”

Even Past Shutdown Experience Suggests Subsidies Would Still Be Operational

The experience of the Social Security Administration (SSA) during the two FY1996 shutdowns illustrates what might happen over a period of time in these situations…..SSA had not retained staff to, among other things, respond to “telephone calls from customers needing a Social Security card to work or who needed to change the address where their check should be mailed for the following month.” SSA then
advised OMB that the agency would need to retain 49,715 additional employees for direct service work, including the processing of new claims for Social Security benefits….. The SSA workers described above were determined to be excepted based on the “necessary implication” standard enunciated in the Civiletti opinion.

Consequently, it may be reasonable to infer that any similar benefit programs under the ACA with a separate funding stream could also be considered excepted functions under
the ‘necessary implication’ doctrine in the event of a lapse in annual appropriations.”

The IRS Could Still Continue To Collect Obamacare’s Taxes During a Shutdown

In its government shutdown Contingency Plan from November 16, 2011, the IRS cited memoranda from OMBand the General Counsel of the Treasury for the proposition that incoming tax revenue constitutes property in the context of this exception to the Antideficiency Act. As a result, that contingency plan indicated that ‘during a lapse in
appropriations, the Service may continue processing tax returns to insure the protection of those returns that contain remittances.’…… Importantly, it should be noted that a lapse in funding does not automatically result in the suspension of filing and payment deadlines imposed by the Internal Revenue Code (IRC). While some enforcement and
collection activities may be unavailable during a government shutdown, those authorities would resume if funding is subsequently provided for the IRS, and any outstanding tax liabilities accrued during that time period may be subject to enforcement and collection at that time.”


11 posted on 08/05/2013 9:18:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: VerySadAmerican

From Sen. Tom Coburn’s website:

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=1933ce98-a8cf-48bc-af5c-b222c18fcb1d

The Individual Mandate Would Continue Under a Shutdown

The individual mandate “applies to tax years beginning after December 31, 2013 (i.e.,calendar years 2014 and on), and is intended to be assessed as part of a taxpayer’s annual income tax return required to be filed during April of the year following the applicable tax year….. If a government shutdown were to occur during calendar year 2014, the lapse in funding would not automatically suspend the requirements of the individual mandate. In other words, during the time period that the government is shut down, taxpayers who fall within the coverage of the individual mandate would still be accruing penalties for any months in which they lacked minimum essential coverage. There is no general exception to the individual mandate that automatically applies during a lapse in government funding. Moreover, the HHS Secretary has not included a government shutdown among the various circumstances enumerated in regulation as constituting a hardship.


12 posted on 08/05/2013 9:21:18 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Madame Dufarge

No, the Dems did not use reconciliation or deemed it passed. They passed it the Senate then in the House.


13 posted on 08/05/2013 9:27:53 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
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To: VerySadAmerican

This is contrary to the constitution.


14 posted on 08/05/2013 9:34:37 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge ("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")
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To: WILLIALAL
I say let it go forward and let people feel the effects of Obamacare.

I believe you're correct. The ONLY way most of these fools will LEARN is to have the ceiling fall in on them. Then, and only then, will they wake up.

The only problem is we are afflicted as well.

15 posted on 08/05/2013 9:41:10 AM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: sickoflibs

“Of course its near impossible to take away freebees once given out.”

This is going to happen anyway. There is no major push from the electorate to make major changes to any big government program. There are too many hooked on government large-es already to neutralize any conservative push to rein in spending. There is too much momentum against us. Sad but true.


16 posted on 08/05/2013 9:57:38 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: Turbo Pig

“Well, if not funding it doesn’t hurt obamacare, then they should go ahead and defund it...no harm done,”

Because this would turn out badly in the end for conservatives. The media blow back would be damaging with no impact upon Obama.


17 posted on 08/05/2013 10:01:07 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: VideoDoctor

The Greek ecconomy has collapsed as a result of a few families ruling the country on a rotaiting basis. The country is bankrupt but the power players are just fine.

Thos inside the belway will be just fine, they view those outside the beltway as nothing more than illiterate sharecroppers.


18 posted on 08/05/2013 10:02:19 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: SeekAndFind

When they say shutdown they mean screw the public but keep their special privileges.


19 posted on 08/05/2013 10:08:41 AM PDT by I want the USA back (There's no autocorrect for stupidity.)
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To: longtermmemmory

All the Republicans have to do is one thing and Obamacare shuts down.

Write a bill called the no exemption bill. No one is exempted from Obamacare for any reason. This includes Houses of worship, everyone.

Then you hold a major press conference and talk about the inequalities of the law and how this fixes it. After that hand it off to the Senate and every day hold a presser about when the Senate will sign the bill and send into Obama.

Then do the same thing with Obama. Regardless of how far the bill goes, one thing remains the same. The Rats own it.


20 posted on 08/05/2013 10:14:25 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The reason we own guns is to protect ourselves from those wanting to take our guns from us.)
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To: VerySadAmerican
"I don't get it"

Its called off budget.

21 posted on 08/05/2013 10:17:09 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Madame Dufarge
Just as the Dems “deemed” it passed, why don’t the Republicans deem it de-funded?

Just as the spying on Americans, Obamacare has been going ahead full steam without much fanfare from the media since before its inception...

I imagine it is so fully entrenched within the gov't departments and bureaucracies that it was designed to have provisions within it to prevent it from ever being defunded...

22 posted on 08/05/2013 10:53:37 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
I remember there being discussion a short time back about there being no mechanism in Obamacare for federal funding to run the exchanges when the states refused to set up their own.

It seemed like an avenue that the House might have pursued, but then the issue seems to have disappeared.

Maybe the Marxists found a loophole.

23 posted on 08/05/2013 11:12:59 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: sickoflibs

Wind out of sails - not really - those who make that argument have not listened to the entire argument presented by Ted Cruz and Mike Lee. Cruz has authored a bill to attach to the CR that does, in fact, defund the entire Act. Anyone who thinks that Ted Cruz does not understand all the legal implications does not appreciate the legal intelligence of Senator Cruz — he is a brilliant lawyer and Constitutional scholar. Things will go badly if the GOP must rely on rudderless nitwits such as Boehner, Cantor, Rove, McCain, and Graham to do the explaining. But the GOP does not have to rely on them. Cruz, Rubio, Lee, and Paul are compelling speakers.


24 posted on 08/05/2013 11:24:57 AM PDT by susan_wv
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To: WILLIALAL; stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
RE:”“Of course its near impossible to take away freebees once given out.”....
There are too many hooked on government large-es already to neutralize any conservative push to rein in spending. There is too much momentum against us. Sad but true.”

The GOP supplied the Dems with much fuel for this to speed up the process.

Here’s the optics for most regardless of the GOP’s alternative version of history:

Republicans wanted everyone to know that Clinton RAISED taxes and GWB cut taxes, and they succeeded too

So Clinton leaves office at a time when it looks like things
went pretty well for the past few years,
and GWB leaves office when all hell is breaking loose and he is on TV demanding congress give him a huge blank check to bail out the banks, or else great depression is coming.

So this leaves certain destructive associations behind.

25 posted on 08/05/2013 11:37:52 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: susan_wv; WILLIALAL; SeekAndFind; stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
RE:”Wind out of sails - not really - those who make that argument have not listened to the entire argument presented by Ted Cruz and Mike Lee. Cruz has authored a bill to attach to the CR that does, in fact, defund the entire Act.

Does he have 60 votes in Senate? Will Obama sign it?

Regardless

The above article is talking about how a government shutdown would defund all kinds of stuff that voters like, but still leave Obama-care funding in place.

That would make it even more easy for Obama to attach blame to GOP, then the GOP caves anyway left hated by everyone.

Or do you believe the MSM will all line up and blame Obama so he caves and signs a bill defunding his legacy item?

26 posted on 08/05/2013 11:51:22 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs

” So Clinton leaves office at a time when it looks like things
went pretty well for the past few years,”

Clinton lucked out..

1) Hi-tech boom

2) dot com boom.

“and GWB leaves office when all hell is breaking loose and he is on TV demanding congress give him a huge blank check to bail out the banks, or else great depression is coming.”

Bush had a lot to do with HIS bust. Contrary to Bush apologists, Bush campaigned for the damn NINJA loans, so he OWNS them.

As for the “blank check”, that is merely Bush putting another nail in our coffin.


27 posted on 08/05/2013 11:51:48 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (K I L L T H E B I L L !!)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
RE :”Clinton lucked out..”

Regardless, its a curse on us.

On GWB : If ya wanna leave office with fond memories left behind then dont demand trillions of dollars to bail out banks threatening with us with a Depression, at the end of your eighth year.

28 posted on 08/05/2013 11:55:27 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs

” On GWB : If ya wanna leave office with fond memories left behind then dont demand trillions of dollars to bail out banks threatening with us with a Depression, at the end of your eighth year. “

BINGO


29 posted on 08/05/2013 12:07:53 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (K I L L T H E B I L L !!)
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To: WILLIALAL
Because this would turn out badly in the end for conservatives. The media blow back would be damaging with no impact upon Obama.

And how is that different than what happens on a daily basis? Again, it's gonna happen anyway, why not do something to protect the country and truly earn the slings and arrows they will receive no matter what they do?

30 posted on 08/05/2013 12:33:08 PM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Bush spent less than half of the $780 billion requested for the bailout.

He also had two key fiscally conservative stipulations to his bailout actions:

1. All money must be paid back
2. Money must be paid back to taxpayers with interest.

Those features do not exist in democrat/Obama spending actions.

Incidentally, the bank bailout has been paid back and with interest just as Bush promised.

The blind rage of Republican=Democrats is one of the most serious threats to the republic.

Bush was reducing the deficit three years in a row until democrats took over congress in January 2007. Democrats uncorked fannie mae and freddie mac and directly caused the housing crash destroying 6 trillion dollars in assets for homeowners.

Even in this thread the ridiculous gloss about Clinton boom is offered. One can easily see in the past twenty years or more a simple correlation between democratic control of the federal government and spending madness.

Republicans gained strong control of Congress from 1994 through 2000. That controlled spending and Clinton’s fiscal madness [which included hopes of passing massive health care bills]. That produced growth. That reduced the debt.

I am fine with people wanting ‘more conservative’ reps but I am fed up with the Republican = Democrat mantra. Its obvious both in Congressional realities and Presidential realities.

The democrats have long done massive fiscal damage to the nation and presently hold the economy in a catastrophic tailspin. FR endlessly repeats the mantra: they’re all the same.

Actually, they’re not.


31 posted on 08/05/2013 12:40:04 PM PDT by lonestar67 (I remember when unemployment was 4.7 percent)
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To: lonestar67; sickoflibs

” Bush spent less than half of the $780 billion requested for the bailout.

He also had two key fiscally conservative stipulations to his bailout actions:

1. All money must be paid back
2. Money must be paid back to taxpayers with interest.

Those features do not exist in democrat/Obama spending actions.

Incidentally, the bank bailout has been paid back and with interest just as Bush promised.

The blind rage of Republican=Democrats is one of the most serious threats to the republic.”

Smoke

What was the national debt in 2001, and what was it in 2008?
(Pre-crash)

” . Democrats uncorked fannie mae and freddie mac and directly caused the housing crash destroying 6 trillion dollars in assets for homeowners.”

The banks didn’t start full throttle on sub-prime until 2002. THe banks/mortgage companies then opened the floodgates from 2002-2007. Bush gave a half hearted attempt to slow it down, but when rebuffed, he jumped on the sub-prime bandwagon. FReeper Sickoflibs saved the proof if you want it.

” Even in this thread the ridiculous gloss about Clinton boom is offered.”

There was a boom, and Clinton lucked out. He had nothing to do with any of it. No “gloss” here.


32 posted on 08/05/2013 1:00:06 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
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To: lonestar67
What do you think about the "path to citizenship" for illegals, that W and Repubs like Ryan, Rubio, McCarthy, etc. support?

Also, why do you suppose W hasn't come out strong, or AT ALL, on the excessive DC spending being approved by Dims AND Repubs?

I've heard all of the "Well, W is too gracious to comment about another admins policies". Our country is being destroyed at warp speed....a patriot would try and put a stop to it...or, at the very least, say something disapproving.

It's long boggled by mind how W can just sit by, quietly, while our country spins further into Marxist destruction.

33 posted on 08/05/2013 1:03:07 PM PDT by Jane Long (While Marxists continue the fundamental transformation of the USA, progressive RINOs stay silent.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

You won’t acknowledge the deficit going down prior to dems taking control in jan 2007.

Bush pressed for tighter GSE regulation throughout. One frank and Dodd controlled the question in 2007 all restraint was gone. Franklin Raines said mortgages were without risk.

Clinton did not get lucky.

He got republicans in congress who saved the economy from exactly what is choking it now— looming massive healthcare.


34 posted on 08/05/2013 1:34:15 PM PDT by lonestar67 (I remember when unemployment was 4.7 percent)
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To: lonestar67

” Bush pressed for tighter GSE regulation throughout.”

No, he didn’t.

” One frank and Dodd controlled the question in 2007 all restraint was gone”

By 2007, 95% of the sub-prime damage had been done, and banks/ mortgage companies were already dropping like flies.


35 posted on 08/05/2013 1:48:09 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
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To: Jane Long

Buish and Jeb are in full press on amnesty, just like 2007. It will destroy the country, if passed. W still hurting America, and helping Obama with pro-amnesty rhetoric.


36 posted on 08/05/2013 1:59:52 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
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To: WILLIALAL

Yes, and do it well before the 2014 election season. It may just spark some of the useful idiots without a clue to the realization that “holy schnikes’ this thing is way screwed up!


37 posted on 08/05/2013 2:22:34 PM PDT by rhubarbk (It's official, I'm suffering from Obama fatigue!)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; lonestar67
Buish and Jeb are in full press on amnesty, just like 2007. It will destroy the country, if passed. W still hurting America, and helping Obama with pro-amnesty rhetoric.

Agree. Still waiting on my questions to be answered (post #33) by this Bush supporter.

...sigh...

38 posted on 08/05/2013 2:23:09 PM PDT by Jane Long (While Marxists continue the fundamental transformation of the USA, progressive RINOs stay silent.)
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To: Jane Long

: )


39 posted on 08/05/2013 2:39:21 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
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To: Jane Long

Of course its not the topic of the thread so you need to ask so you can rant away on some unrelated point.

So let’s get that done.

I do support W’s path to citizenship policies. I don’t think that is mutually exclusive with enforcement and clear identification of who is entering the country.

To be clear, both as governor of Texas and as President— Bush took a consistent view of immigration that was far less accommodating than California but far less strict and unrealistic than the border war crowd that attacks him.

The reality of that practice from the 1990s until 2007 is as follows:

1. Texas is the most over riding economic engine remaining for the US economy. We produce most of the job gains in the US. We presently have 25% of all the fossil fuel wells in the world. We have a booming fiscal surplus that will continue to explode. Our state is not blue but emphatically red and despite fantasies to the contrary will remain so.

2. Hispanics did support President Bush rather dramatically throughout his role as governor and President.

3. In January 2007, unemployment in the United States was 4.7 percent. That is hardly an economic disaster. The deficit was 160 billion dollars— barely a tenth of what it runs now. Bush protected the nation from further attacks despite the wild rhetoric that the borders will bring in another attack. It did not happen in 8 years of Bush’s leadership.

The hatred Bush receives from Obama supporters and faux conservatives does not faze me.

I would like to see some results. Bush actually has some. They compare favorably with California and they compare favorably with this nation since Obama was sworn in January 2009.

Roosevelt was right. It is easier to be the critic than the man in the ring fighting for something.

Bring it.


40 posted on 08/05/2013 4:09:09 PM PDT by lonestar67 (I remember when unemployment was 4.7 percent)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

This is absurd and yet a normative response on so many parts of the internet.

“No he didn’t”

Really?

Bush did not call for regulation of Fannie Mae.

He called Congress to increase regulation 17 times!

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/barone/2008/10/06/democrats-were-wrong-on-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac

Why not just admit to reality?

Especially when it supports an intuitive position you ought to have against Democrats?!

The democrats took overwhelming control of congress on January 2007. Dodd and Obama were some of the largest recipients of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

You and so many others would rather lazily assert that Republicans and Democrats are all the same and the events of 2008 have no partisan theme to them.

Consequent to this delusion, we must now believe that the Fairy Tale party of Golden Conservative unicorns will mystically right the country from its present demise.

There’s no empirical backing for this new vision but the situation is bad enough that any assertion should suffice—right!?

Actually, no.


41 posted on 08/05/2013 4:20:02 PM PDT by lonestar67 (I remember when unemployment was 4.7 percent)
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To: sickoflibs
The new health care law draws funding from sources that are not subject to the congressional budget process..

What sources? Begging? Obamacare won't have any cash flowing in for a long time.

42 posted on 08/05/2013 5:12:56 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Fight the culture of nothing.)
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To: longtermmemmory

That only will last a short while, though. We don’t produce enough for that to last. More and more cities will bankrupt, the freebies will play out, and there will hell to pay. Several possible scenarios, none good..


43 posted on 08/05/2013 5:15:31 PM PDT by Quickgun (I got here kicking,screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: WILLIALAL

-— . The media blow back would be damaging with no impact upon Obama. ——

Who do you think is going to get blamed for the effects of Obamacare? The government, or greedy doctors and insurance companies?

The Republican’s bold, 30-year strategic retreat has resulted in a $17 trillion deficit. When are you planning on fighting?

We shut down the government until WE get what WE want, that is, Obamacare defunded.

We might as well have some fun fighting the bastards.

Or we can keep retreating. Maybe we can risk a fight in 2032.


44 posted on 08/05/2013 5:25:52 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: lonestar67
Rant away on some unrelated point?

Well, FRiend, you're the one who brought up W and your gold standard 4.7% unemployment meme. I'll give you that W held a much better economy...and economic principals that lead to a much more prosperous economy, than the Marxist-in-Chief.

I do support W’s path to citizenship policies.

Ha! Somehow, I knew that you would! That doesn't surprise me.

By the way, hispanics supported W, as Gov and Pres, at about the same rate they supported Ted Cruz' Senate race. Which proves you CAN stick to CONSERVATIVE principles -- and NOT pander to race (with promises of citizenship, etc.) and garner 40% of the vote. Heck, while Bush was pandering to hispanics, Kerry won 53% to Bush's 44% of the '04 vote.

I don't *hate* Bush, I actually respect W MUCH more than 0. I just don't appreciate pandering to any race while abandoning Conservative principles/platform. To me, that defines *faux* more than anything. So, take your *faux* conservative/0 supporter tripe somewhere else

Why do you suppose W hasn't come out strong, or AT ALL, on the destructive policies of 0 (being approved by Dims AND Repubs)? That alone, has bothered me as much or more, than anything else W has ever done.

45 posted on 08/05/2013 7:47:25 PM PDT by Jane Long (While Marxists continue the fundamental transformation of the USA, progressive RINOs stay silent.)
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To: Jane Long

I don’t disagree with much of what you say.

I love Ted Cruz and I voted for him twice. I thought he was much better than dew hurst

He would be my number one pick for pres 2016.

I know bush pretty well. He’s extraordinarily humble and people try to spin it as a weakness. It’s not.

His library and institute do good work arguing for his principals.

I’m pretty unhappy with how harshly people like bush are treated. He’s more conservative than McCain and people can certainly vote for more conservative options such as Cruz.

Democrats control too much of history— making heroes of villains and demons of good people. We need to defend the good actions of republicans and stop playing this coy game of bipartisanship that we dislike republicans as much as democrats.

2013 isn’t 2001 or 1980 for that matter. It’s a unique moment.


46 posted on 08/05/2013 8:16:18 PM PDT by lonestar67 (I remember when unemployment was 4.7 percent)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; lonestar67
RE :”” . Democrats uncorked fannie mae and freddie mac and directly caused the housing crash destroying 6 trillion dollars in assets for homeowners.”
......
The banks didn’t start full throttle on sub-prime until 2002. THe banks/mortgage companies then opened the floodgates from 2002-2007. Bush gave a half hearted attempt to slow it down, but when rebuffed, he jumped on the sub-prime bandwagon. FReeper Sickoflibs saved the proof if you want it.”

Yes those waskally Dems twicked Bush into a housing bubble that he took credit for in 2004 to get re-elected, new homeowners, cash in pocket, happy days are here again. That Bawny Fwank is an evil genius getting Bush to say this.

GWB 2002 Speech :”More and more people own their homes in America today. Yet we have a problem here in America because fewer than half the Hispanics and African Americans own their own homes. That’s a home ownership gap; a gap that we got to work together to close. And by the end of this decade we’ll increase the number of minority homeowners (future Obama voters ) by 5.5 million families.
...
“One of the major obstacles to minority home-ownership is financing. Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac (who I will bail out in 2008) have committed to provide more money for lenders, they committed to meet the shortage of capital available for minority home-buyers. Freddie Mac just began 25 initiatives around the country to dismantle barriers (like income requirements) and create better opportunities for home-ownership. One of the programs is designed to help families with bad credit histories to qualify for home ownership loans (by faking their income) . You don’t have to have a lousy home for first time home-buyers. You put your mind to it the first time low income home buyer can have just as nice a house as anyone else (till those adjustable rates go up). “

President Bush Mortgage Speech 2002(Helping those w bad credit buy houses)

47 posted on 08/05/2013 9:06:50 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; lonestar67
Funny how GOP loyalists were falling all over themselves to take credit for the housing bubble upswing, but as soon as it turns sour AFTER GWB re-election it was all Fwank, Clinton and Carters fault. Bush knew NOTHING, NOTHING about all those easy loans and low interest rates,, just like Obama and Benghazi.

President Bush Mortgage Speech 2002(Helping those w bad credit buy houses)

President Bush Reiterates Goal on Homeownership, Remarks by the President on Homeownership, Department of Housing and Urban Development Washington, D.C. (2002)

Early in George W. Bush’s first administration, a home ownership initiative was introduced, sometimes referred to as the Blueprint for the American Dream, to close the homeownership gap by 5.5 million minority families. Along with this homeownership initiative, there were other policies implemented to dismantle barriers to homeownership in minority communities.” from :
The Great American Mortgage Scam & The Latino Community

George W. Bush, The White House.gov: Homeownership Continues to Increase in 2002 , HUD Statement on Record Homeownership Rates in 2002

George W. Bush, The White House.gov: National Homeownership Month, 2003, By the President of the United States of America A Proclamation

48 posted on 08/05/2013 9:12:46 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Mike Darancette
RE :” The new health care law draws funding from sources that are not subject to the congressional budget process..
....
What sources? Begging? Obamacare won't have any cash flowing in for a long time. “

You believed Obama when he said that O-care would pay for itself?

Its funded similar to medicare except no paper IOUs from government to itself, by Federal borrowing $$$.,

49 posted on 08/05/2013 9:19:11 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

I recall the last time this came up just a few months ago a Bush-bot claimed that by 2006 or 2007 GWB had changed his mind 180 degrees on handing out those home loans to anyone who applied, so that made it OK.

Well by 2006 it was too late and 2007 it was WAY too late.

Like a fantastic airplane ride to 20K feet with little fuel left and only the bankers get the parachutes.


50 posted on 08/05/2013 10:22:46 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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