Skip to comments.Government shutdown won't shut Obamacare: Report
Posted on 08/05/2013 8:52:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFindEdited on 08/05/2013 8:52:50 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
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I say let it go forward and let people feel the effects of Obamacare. Just make sure that the Dems get credit for it.
Just as the Dems “deemed” it passed, why don’t the Republicans deem it de-funded?
Wouldn't do any good. Let's say you do that, and it pisses off sufficient voters to overcome Obama's vote fraud machine and elect a slew of Republicans. They might do less damage during their own terms than a corresponding number of Dems would (even that may be questionable), but when was the last time you saw R's dismantle a big Dem program, much less punish those responsible and lock in the dismantlement in some way?
Yep, shutdown government services to take a stand on Obama-care spending with Obama-care spending unaffected by shutdown because its exempt from it.
Reminds me of 1996 after three weeks of shutdowns the GSAs got back salaries for all three weeks paying some overtime.(caught me by surprise at time)
Imagine how that would play in media and public opinion...
RE: I say let it go forward and let people feel the effects of Obamacare. Just make sure that the Dems get credit for it.
I think you are articulating the Tom Coburn position.
I’m surprised you are not getting grief from the the DEFUND OBAMACARE crowd here in FR.
Of course its near impossible to take away freebees once given out.
The GOP should pass a bill that takes away Obama’s ability to delay parts of it or give exemptions, hell, the GOP w Dems just begged Obama to exempt congress (themselves) in-spite of the law.
I think this post above will take some wind out of their sails.
In a shutdown Defund everything but the stuff that the GOP claims we must cut.(Obamacare, SS, medicare, medicaid, food stamps)
I can imagine this one going badly, again.
I don’t get it. Congress appropriates money to the government. But if it doesn’t then the government can get it elsewhere? Where is that?
Of course, I don’t get much of anything anymore.
Well, if not funding it doesn’t hurt obamacare, then they should go ahead and defund it...no harm done, and the libs can’t get mad, because after all, obamacare is not affected.
FROM SENATOR TOM COBURN’s WEBSITE:
CRS: Government Shutdown Does Not Shut Down Obamacare
On July 29, 2013 the Congressional Research Service (CRS)
issued a memo to Dr. Coburn at his request for information on the potential effects of a funding lapse and
related government shutdown on implementation of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The memo specifically addressed several questions he posed.
The memo reveals that if government were shut down, funding for Obamacare would still continue. In other words, shutting down the federal government does not shut down Obamacare.
This document is a summary of direct quotes from that memo.
The Administration Can Exercise Some Discretion Implementing Obamacare In the context of a prospective or actual lapse in appropriations and government
shutdown, several presidential administrations have interpreted the nature and scope of restrictions on government activities during a shutdown and any related exceptions.
.identified specific exceptions that govern federal agency decisions regarding which operations may continue during a government shutdown under certain circumstances. These exceptions arguably have been read broadly, resulting in a situation where executive agencies may exercise some discretion. It is important to note that past views and practice in the executive branch do not
necessarily constrain or guide what may happen in the event of a future funding lapse and shutdown.
The Obama Administration Already Had Obamacare Funding Plans Online The near-impasses [in FY2011 and FY2012] also resulted in executive branch agencies posting a substantial amount of information on the Internet about their plans
for a potential shutdown, including information about excepted and non-excepted personnel and activities. These plans might provide insight into questions of whether
government activities at specific agencies and programs, and in specific situations, would continue or cease .
A Government Shutdown Does Not Cause All Government Functions To CeaseA funding gap also may occur any time that interim funding in a continuing resolution
(CR) expires and another CR or regular appropriations bill is not enacted immediately thereafter. When a funding gap occurs, the federal government begins a shutdown of
the affected activities, including the furlough of certain personnel and curtailment of agency activities and services. There are some exceptions to this process, however, as
explained further ..In 1980 and 1981, [sic], U.S. Attorney General Benjamin R. Civiletti issued two opinions that more strictly interpreted the Antideficiency Act in the context of a funding gap, along with the laws exceptions.
There Are Four Types of Funding That Do Not Cease During Shutdown.The GAO has summarized the 1981 Civiletti opinion as identifying four sub-types of authorized by law exceptions. Those include:
1. Activities funded with appropriations of budget authority that do not expire at the end of one fiscal year, such as multiple-year and no-year appropriations
2. Activities authorized by statutes that expressly permit obligations in advance of appropriations, such as contract authority.
3. Activities authorized by necessary implication from the specific terms of duties that have been imposed on, or of authorities that have been invested in, the agency. The Civiletti opinion illustrated this abstract concept by citing the situation when benefit payments under an entitlement program are funded from other-than-one-year appropriations
but the salaries of personnel who
administer the program are funded by one-year appropriations the Attorney General offered the view that continued availability of money for benefit payments would necessarily imply that continued administration of the program is
authorized by law at some level and therefore excepted from the Antideficiency Act.
4. Obligations necessarily incident to presidential initiatives undertaken within his constitutional powers, such as the power to grant pardons and reprieves.
Substantial Obamacare Implementation Would Continue In a Shutdown
It appears that substantial ACA implementation might continue during a lapse in annual appropriations that resulted in a temporary government shutdown for two reasons.
The first is that the federal government will be able to
rely on sources of funding other than annual discretionary appropriations to support implementation activities, including multiple-year and no-year discretionary funds still available for obligation as well as mandatory funds ..The HHS shutdown contingency plan that was
prepared in anticipation of a possible government shutdown in FY2012 indicated that ACA implementation activities at CMS would continue because of the mandatory funding provided in the law.
What About Obamacare Implementation Funding From Other Sources?
The Administrations FY2014 budget requested $1.4 billion in new funds for CMS Program Management for ongoing ACA implementation activities, plus an additional $400 million for the IRS to administer ACAs tax-related provisions, including the premium tax credits. In the event that congressional appropriators do not provide any of
these funds, or in the event of a temporary lapse in discretionary appropriations that results in a government shutdown, it seems likely that the Administration will continue to rely on alternative sources of funding to support ACA implementation activities.
Obamacares Subsidies for Health Coverage Would Continue During a ShutdownLike many other tax credits, the monies used to fund such provisions are permanently appropriated outside of the annual appropriations process. Therefore, the funds for such credits would continue to be available via this permanent appropriation during a government shutdown caused by a lapse in annual appropriations
.it may be likely that at least some of the eligibility and processing functions associated with payment of this credit might continue during a government shutdown, even if the salaries of the federal employees who would be making those determinations are paid from annual appropriations that have lapsed. This is because the IRS could rely upon that portion of the Civiletti opinion which indicates that continued availability of money for benefit payments would necessarily imply that continued administration of the program is
authorized by law despite the lapse in discretionary funding.
Even Past Shutdown Experience Suggests Subsidies Would Still Be Operational
The experience of the Social Security Administration (SSA) during the two FY1996 shutdowns illustrates what might happen over a period of time in these situations
..SSA had not retained staff to, among other things, respond to telephone calls from customers needing a Social Security card to work or who needed to change the address where their check should be mailed for the following month. SSA then
advised OMB that the agency would need to retain 49,715 additional employees for direct service work, including the processing of new claims for Social Security benefits .. The SSA workers described above were determined to be excepted based on the necessary implication standard enunciated in the Civiletti opinion.
Consequently, it may be reasonable to infer that any similar benefit programs under the ACA with a separate funding stream could also be considered excepted functions under
the necessary implication doctrine in the event of a lapse in annual appropriations.
The IRS Could Still Continue To Collect Obamacares Taxes During a Shutdown
In its government shutdown Contingency Plan from November 16, 2011, the IRS cited memoranda from OMBand the General Counsel of the Treasury for the proposition that incoming tax revenue constitutes property in the context of this exception to the Antideficiency Act. As a result, that contingency plan indicated that during a lapse in
appropriations, the Service may continue processing tax returns to insure the protection of those returns that contain remittances. Importantly, it should be noted that a lapse in funding does not automatically result in the suspension of filing and payment deadlines imposed by the Internal Revenue Code (IRC). While some enforcement and
collection activities may be unavailable during a government shutdown, those authorities would resume if funding is subsequently provided for the IRS, and any outstanding tax liabilities accrued during that time period may be subject to enforcement and collection at that time.
From Sen. Tom Coburn’s website:
The Individual Mandate Would Continue Under a Shutdown
The individual mandate applies to tax years beginning after December 31, 2013 (i.e.,calendar years 2014 and on), and is intended to be assessed as part of a taxpayers annual income tax return required to be filed during April of the year following the applicable tax year .. If a government shutdown were to occur during calendar year 2014, the lapse in funding would not automatically suspend the requirements of the individual mandate. In other words, during the time period that the government is shut down, taxpayers who fall within the coverage of the individual mandate would still be accruing penalties for any months in which they lacked minimum essential coverage. There is no general exception to the individual mandate that automatically applies during a lapse in government funding. Moreover, the HHS Secretary has not included a government shutdown among the various circumstances enumerated in regulation as constituting a hardship.
No, the Dems did not use reconciliation or deemed it passed. They passed it the Senate then in the House.
This is contrary to the constitution.
I believe you're correct. The ONLY way most of these fools will LEARN is to have the ceiling fall in on them. Then, and only then, will they wake up.
The only problem is we are afflicted as well.
“Of course its near impossible to take away freebees once given out.”
This is going to happen anyway. There is no major push from the electorate to make major changes to any big government program. There are too many hooked on government large-es already to neutralize any conservative push to rein in spending. There is too much momentum against us. Sad but true.
“Well, if not funding it doesnt hurt obamacare, then they should go ahead and defund it...no harm done,”
Because this would turn out badly in the end for conservatives. The media blow back would be damaging with no impact upon Obama.
The Greek ecconomy has collapsed as a result of a few families ruling the country on a rotaiting basis. The country is bankrupt but the power players are just fine.
Thos inside the belway will be just fine, they view those outside the beltway as nothing more than illiterate sharecroppers.
When they say shutdown they mean screw the public but keep their special privileges.
All the Republicans have to do is one thing and Obamacare shuts down.
Write a bill called the no exemption bill. No one is exempted from Obamacare for any reason. This includes Houses of worship, everyone.
Then you hold a major press conference and talk about the inequalities of the law and how this fixes it. After that hand it off to the Senate and every day hold a presser about when the Senate will sign the bill and send into Obama.
Then do the same thing with Obama. Regardless of how far the bill goes, one thing remains the same. The Rats own it.