Skip to comments.Congress Exempt from Obamacare in Last-Minute Deal
Posted on 08/05/2013 11:26:07 AM PDT by xzins
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Excuse the typos, I am not responsible for what the touch pad does in Windows8 ;)
I appreciate your back and forth discussion and would like to just offer my own thoughts. I believe that the two of you are closer than you may think. I am interpreting your positions as follows:
Invar believes that given the slide towards tyranny that the American people are proving to be willing to accept being ruled by tyrannical leaders.
Windflier believes that there will be a point that the ruling elite pushes the American people to far and that will result in a violent response.
I believe that you are both correct, in a way. Yes, we have seen the slide towards total tyranny speed up and we are not seeing much of a response from the people. However, we are seeing an agitation begin to get more visible from a minority of the American people.
Remember, the Founders tried peacefully to redress the King for years. They were answered with further abuses and would respond with more peaceful attempts at redressing the abuse. This was ignored.....So, they decided to officially make the Declaration of Independence, knowing it could cost them their lives and would be followed with violence.
Still, after all of the abuse and the public declaration, there was still only a minority of the populace that supported them. There was approximately an equal number of folks that supported the King and again an equal number of folks that were complacent.
I believe we are currently in the same situation. We are suffering abuses and are petitioning for redressing our grievences. The governing elite are ignoring our peaceful attempts and foisting further abuses upon the citizenry. At some point a line will be crossed and that will lead to a violent response. However, this response will be supported by about a third of the population, and actually fewer will participate. Another third will actively oppose those fighting for liberty and finally a third will just not give a damn.
So, as Invar has stated, we are being abused by the governing elite and we have not seen any overwhelming response. Yet, as Windflier has stated, there will be some breaking point that results in an active opposition. I think the disconnect is that we must realize that it will be left to a minority of the population to protect liberty. Well, at least I can hope that we will be joined by others.....
I was talking to my three teenaged kids the other day, and laid out that very scenario to them. Like you, I cross-referenced it with America's early revolutionary history, although I believe the percentages will be different in the next revolution. I believe that more Americans will support it, and more will actively participate.
I think you read my and Invar's arguments correctly, and (being on the outside) have a clearer view of where we meet, and where we diverge. I think your analysis of where the people stand, vis a vis the ongoing tyranny, is correct.
I appreciate your perspective. That settles it for me.
You are close in your assessment of my position in this discussion CSM.
I believe we have already accepted and knuckled under to so much tyranny and fundamental upheaval of Foundational and Religious principles as a people - that I am doubtful liberty as we knew it can remain.
Without God as our Sovereign and Religion as our bulwark - then the very idea of liberty as was intended and bequeathed to us, is IMPOSSIBLE to last and maintain.
Both scripture and history teach us what happens to a people who are no longer governed by the principles that established them, and are ruled instead by the tyranny of men.
I already quoted the Declaration where Jefferson noted that mankind prefers to suffer evil while evils are sufferable than right themselves by throwing off those yokes.
I believe that a majority of this people are willing to suffer evil, because the evils are sufferable, and indeed to some, preferable to risking liberty. I believe that once liberty is surrendered to Statists - it is gone forever.
John Adams gave what I believe to be a prophetic warning on that score:
“A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it” - John Adams, letter to Abigail 1775
There are no examples I can find from history of a free people who lost their liberty and foundations, ever regaining what they once had, despite efforts.
I also believe that history teaches that such ideologues like Obama and those like him will follow in the genocidal footsteps of the other despotic Marxist regimes that came before.
Does that mean I think we should do nothing and accept defeat?
No. I have not heard God speak to anyone and say “Pray for this people no more”. But what I know is that too many Americans and Conservatives are not willing to look at the very hard truth. They are hung up on romantic notions of reliving the American Revolution or beating their chests in a display of what is silly bravado.
They are not looking at the battlefield properly. Nor are they regarding the enemy now ruling us with the discernment required to endure such an enemy on the battlefield ideologically, tactically and practically.
Where we have arrived is a sickening cross between the Balkans in the 90’s and the French in the late 1780’s. We are at great risk of a bloodbath, not a war for independence. A war of civil horror we cannot even now comprehend, not a battle for liberty. heck, most of us cannot even agree what the definition of liberty is outside of doing whatever one feels like in their own eyes. That’s anarchy - not ordered liberty. Ordered liberty that came from the pulpits and churches.
But you cannot even get many churches today to call sin what it is. Preaching the need for repentance is something that some pastors have told me, will cost them their congregation. The people do not want to hear about the need to repent - they only want to hear smooth and easy things. Truly the hallmark of a II Timothy 3 generation.
Without a moral and religious culture - the Constitution itself is irrelevant to govern such a people.
So when good-intentioned folks like Windflier tell me that the government is at risk of a massive and violent uprising they will lose to liberty-loving Americans who are going to restore the Republic, I look at all the facts and the spiritual and cultural condition we are in as a people - and such notions are pie-in-the-sky delusions. The people have to accept reality, know the full measure of what we face - REPENT and be willing to do what is necessary to prevent what is about to happen to us.
That said - there is this fact: the longer we do nothing in the face of the kind of tyranny I see this regime erecting around us - the more impossible it will become to stop what will be done to us.
We are in a Churchill moment as a remnant.
I am sure that we would all be comfortable in a smokey tavern of 1770 and quibbling over one degree of tyranny or another, as well I am sure that we would all be willing stand next to each other on the firing line.
Sadly, we are not legally able to do such a thing today.....At least we have FR and when the time comes we know that we will stand together or fall seperately.
As a point of reference, I have a somewhat limited, but growing personal distribution list. I send a “Tyranny Tracker” note to those folks at least a couple of times a week and very often it is daily. That list has grown over time from a handfull to 30 and it continues to grow. These folks are people that I know personally and aren’t some random facebook or twitter “friends.” A few of them have told me that they forward them along and in the rare occasion that I can’t get a blast out, I get folks sending me notes to encourage me to keep them going.
I only wanted to provide this information to let you know that although the general public is very complacent, and very blissful in their ignorance, I see signs stirring of people that are being stirred to action. I agree that the further the Tyranny progresses, the more we will need to pray for God’s favor to re-instate liberty. However, I will not give up and I suspect that neither of you will.
I care to much for my daughter and grand-daughter to allow them to live in bondage. However, I know that the consideration of progeny is a rarity in our citizenry.
I will pray and continue to practice my aim. I look forward to standing with both of you, as well as a few other of my FRiends.
Found this on Drudge:
Last week, when President Barack Obama came to the Hill to meet with Senate Democrats, he informed them that he would personally get involved to sort out the confusion, and the White House said that OPM would issue guidelines this week.
Bump for action!
Hes a Fag
That means they will continue to get a taxpayer-funded contribution to help pay for their health care premiums.
Amazing!! We the people will pay for their golden ins. and we will all be on Medicaid/welfare!
Just about the entire Congress is complicit in this by their silence. Democrat, Republican, Independent....they’ve had a week to be shouting about it in public, and we’ve heard virtually nothing. And we darn sure don’t have it being pounded in the media.
Democrats are complicit.
Republicans are complicit.
Independents are complicit.
Not hearing much from Reps per this makes you wonder.
Each of us need to ask our Rep specifically about this, by message , phone call to their local office or at a townhall .
Well, the simple solution would be to fire them all, every single one of them, and put into place people who will actually dismantle this unsustainable, un-Constitutional mandate once and for all...
What folks need to understand is the only reason the SCOTUS, and John Roberts went along on this was that they recognized that this system was simply another tax on the people, therefore it IS something, if the representatives and senators had any balls would dismiss this tax/law, and we could simply move on...
But no one seems to have the balls to do so...Therefore, the only option is a big Testosterone Bomb being dropped in air-burst mode on their collective heads...
All kidding aside...When things like this happen, why we are not absolutely scaring the hell out of these people when they come back to their districts is beyond me...
Liberal/Fabian Socialist Democrats, and Feckless Republican elitist need to be shown the door...No matter how much you may, or may not like them...They are ALL complicit in this situation, and they need to be held accountable for this debacle!!!
Just my opinion...
Well, it really is a simple solution to this...
It is the ultimate gut-check question, rhetorical in nature not requiring an answer in a publically monitored forum like this...
“What are YOU prepared to do about this??? And, what are you prepared to sacrifice for that to occur???”
Remember, our legacy we leave for the future of this country ALWAYS rests in OUR hands, not these temporary representatives who the people elect that are doing these things to debilitate this country...
The guys who started this experiment, didn’t just stand around talking BS to hear themselves speak...They later went to the pubs, tossed back a few with their buds who listened to their orations, whether they agreed with each other was a moot point at that time, but when all was said and done they realized one thing...
They ALL went home and with their families spent the rest of their evenings making musket balls...
They knew a fight was coming...Why is it so hard to comprehend this eventuality???
Sure, some would like to avoid that, but the other side of this equation IS hedging their bets that we will not fight...They believe no one has the guts to face them, to sacrifice their lives to correct this problem...Those very representatives believe you and I are cowards!!! When they themselves prove to us every single day that they are political cowards...
Chew on this for a while, think about how important your liberties are, and others around you!!! Think, then be prepared to act!!!
They are only in the setup phase of the plan/agenda...When the hammer starts falling, and people in general are not able to sustain this government and its out of Constitutional boundaries activities, then what do we do??? Wait for the time when we can no longer effect political change at the polls??? When elections don’t mean anything anymore???
That’s too late!!!
These are just my opinions!!! I am only one person, I still engage in the fight from being informed, informing others, and doing things within the political party that still has a smidge of credibility left, and those that I do trust, are extremely outnumbered...Time to give them some backup!!!
We ALL know what we got to do...WE just need to explain what we expect of those wishing to represent us and our expectations are absolute, non-negotiable, and they serve us at our tolerance...
The need to be politically nice and cordial IS LONG GONE!!!
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