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Crisis of Conscience: Anti-Semite Learns He's a Jew
CBN ^ | August 07, 2013 | Dale Hurd

Posted on 08/07/2013 6:41:24 PM PDT by xzins

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To: All

Clayton Bigsby!

The scene when that guy’s head explodes is classic!

One of the best comedy skits ever.


51 posted on 08/08/2013 12:32:06 AM PDT by Rodney Dangerfield (FUBO and that pre-op Tranny you call a wife!)
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To: jodyel
I admit, it's a pretty screwed up belief system.  Makes me glad I respect Christ.


Ramirez's latest political cartoon LARGE VERSION
08/07/2013: LINK  LINK to regular sized version of Ramirez's latest, and an archive of his political cartoons.





FOLKS, THOSE OF YOU WHO CAN, PLEASE CLICK HERE AND PENCIL IN YOUR DONATION TO HELP END THIS FREEPATHON.  THANK YOU!
...this is a general all purpose message, and should not be seen as targeting any individual I am responding to...

CAN WE PULL TOGETHER TO HIT 55% BY FRIDAY EVENING? HOW ABOUT IT...

52 posted on 08/08/2013 1:39:11 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

He talked to his grandma, she turned out to be a Holocaust survivor, and for the first time he realized that the Holocaust had really happened. I feel a little better about US public schools now. Thanks xzins.


53 posted on 08/08/2013 3:27:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: jodyel

Incidentally,
1. we are taught that there is a Hell, but we do not know of any particular individual who may be resident there. Most assuredly you and I could make some pretty good, discerning guesses, but we still lack actual knowledge.
2. we are taught that faith is a gift of God. A lack of faith in a particular truth or teaching cannot be blamed on an individual.
3. the Pharisees, as Jews, already were in covenant with the one true God, a covenant that had already existed and been affirmed over a 1,000 year course of history (and 3,000 years today). They did not have any reason to accept any “guy” coming and claiming Divine status or Divine authority. That some Pharisees exhibited very human short-comings, including some who were hypocritical and for not recognizing the man Jesus as possessing a novel Divine authority, is both expected and well documented. Indeed, their stance was consistent with their duty to honor their faith in God, His revelations, and His covenant with the Jewish people. This is another way of pointing out that the Jewish people are “different,” at least in the sense of already being in Covenant with God and thus in a very different stance than just anybody out there who does not affirm a faith in Jesus as Divine or a “person” of the one true God. We certainly do not know of any Pharisee who is burning in Hell, just as we do not know of any other person there.
3. If we were to interpret Paul’s teaching that “all” Israel will be saved to refer, instead only to a “remnant,” and that is by no means the only (and certainly not a necessary or patent) reading, then that would still at least recognize the continuing validity of God’s Covenant with the Jewish people, as Scripture, including Paul, clearly attests. We just don’t know which Jews are included, but some are. Note that we also do not know which Christians will be saved, the RCC church teaching is that many will not be saved, that is: it is quite possible for a member of the Church to not make it through that narrow gate. (And a widespread Protestant teaching is that many who claim, or think themselves, to be Christians are in fact not genuine followers of Christ ... and are thus still pagans outside of Covenant with the Lord).
You can, I am confident, cite or find the Biblical verses which would indicate any of these vantages, or are at least capable of being used in support of them.
The bottom line is that any person’s ultimate disposition is not known to us. Therefore, while Hell exists and we should definitely take it very seriously indeed, we cannot say if a particular individual will (or already has, perhaps) taken up residence there. Dante’s Divine Comedy notwithstanding.
4. We are also taught that a sincerely repentant person and one who does all reasonably possible to atone for, correct his transgressions, is forgiven.
5. Christianity also teaches that there is only one sure-fire way to go to Hell, that being the so-called ‘unforgiveable sin.’ This is from Matthew’s account of Jesus’ teachings. Jesus states that:
“... I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matthew 12).
From this is clear that speaking against Jesus (Son of man, a term usually indicative of Divine status actually)...will be forgiven. Thus, a Pharisee’s failure to accept Jesus as Divine did not condemn him to Hell, per Jesus’ own teaching.

I do not come to FR with all the answers. There remains mystery...both to the Church and to me, personally, things that I do not fully understand. (This is probably quite apparent by now, anyway, ha!) But I do believe it is error to assume that some Pharisee(s) from 2,000 years ago are burning in Hell, just as it is error to assume that any particular... even any particularly evil...person... will wind up there “in the bye and bye” ... it is God’s decision, not ours. I respectfully submit we will be wise to refrain from condemning people, especially people we don’t know. As real and serious as Hell is, God decides and God knows, we just don’t.
And THAT is the very best I can do with your question.
Keep faith alive,
fhc


54 posted on 08/08/2013 4:20:32 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (E)
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To: xzins; 2banana

Anti-semites were given a boost by communism — in Hungary the Hungarian Soviet republic in 1919 was led by Bela Kun whose father was Jewish and mother Calvinistic (anti-Semites forget that latter bit and that his father was secular) and post 1945 there was Matyas Rosenberg as the CCP leader (of course anti-Semites forget that he totally rejected Judaism and was anti-Semitic himself)


55 posted on 08/08/2013 7:20:44 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: DoughtyOne

Just “respect”?


56 posted on 08/08/2013 10:43:52 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: 2banana
What is it with Europeans? They have muslims slitting their throats and creating infidel no-go zones and they hate some peaceful Jews baking knishes...
Inbred Schicklgruber-Heidler was not Jewish at least not in multiple generations of uncle and cousin loving.
Jobbik is a messed up party. These ersatz nationalists are traitors to Hungary, Europe, and Western Civilization. They are in bed with Iran and Turkey and pissing on the graves of Hungarians who died fighting the Ottoman invasion.
57 posted on 08/08/2013 11:00:52 AM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Many of Hitler's top lieutenants were almost certainly Jewish. Hitler himself might be a Rothschild, which would make him a Hebrew.
Not one thing there is true.
58 posted on 08/08/2013 11:07:32 AM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: faithhopecharity

Hiya fhc,

I think we have different ideas of what hell is....I don’t subscribe to “burning.” I believe Hell is separation from God.

Why would the Pharisees reject Jesus when all thru the Old Testament God is clearly telling them He is bringing them a savior from their people that is both man and God? Any Pharisee who denied Christ is now in Hell.

The Jewish people are different in the sense they were chosen by God to represent Him on earth to all peoples before Jesus was born, and they failed miserably. So He set them aside for an appointed time and turned His attention to the Gentiles.

Not necessarily a remnant...that is what is stated in the first chapter of Romans. I think the disagreement comes in the use of the word “all.” Might help to go back to the original Greek and Hebrew to see how that passage is worded there, but that is well beyond me. :)

Where does it say in Scripture that a “sincerely repentant person and one who does all reasonably possible to atone for, correct his transgressions, is forgiven” outside of placing his faith in Jesus Christ? This sounds to me like salvation thru works.

Speaking against Jesus is not what condemned the Pharisees to hell. Not recognizing their need for a savior to reconcile them to God and accepting Jesus as that savior, before they died, is what condemned them to hell.

I believe Scripture is very clear regarding hell and who will go there and who is there now. Anyone outside the saving grace of Jesus. As real and serious as hell is, people need to be sure and not just guess or think they know. Grab a bible and read up...teach yourself and don’t depend on others words or teaching. Be a Berean and search the Scriptures diligently.

Reckon we have thoroughly hijacked this thread? LOL

Best,
jodyel


59 posted on 08/08/2013 11:24:34 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: faithhopecharity

Love Dr. Stanley! He is the man God used to teach me everything I know. For three years of my life in the early 90s, it was just me, God, and Dr. Stanley’s teaching. Seems like a lifetime ago.

Islam...what a despicable thing. But then anything of Satan is. They are definitely dealt a crushing blow when they come against Israel in future. But as to now and Him helping the USA against them, I don’t see that happening. Next up on the prophecy timetable is the Rapture and when that happens all is lost not only for this country but the whole world.


60 posted on 08/08/2013 11:31:38 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: rmlew
Hitler's Jewish Soldiers
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html

Nazi Hews? Yes, Nazi Jews.
http://therebelpath.com/2008/02/25/nazi-jews-yes-nazi-jews/

Erhard Milch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Milch#1933.E2.80.931939

Hitler's Jewish Army
http://www.dottal.org/150_000_jews_in_hitlers_army.htm

Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called 'full Jews' served in the German military with Adolf Hitler's knowledge and approval. Cambridge University researcher Bryan Rigg has traced the Jewish ancestry of more than 1,200 of Hitler's soldiers, including two field marshals and fifteen generals (two full generals, eight lieutenant generals, five major generals), "men commanding up to 100,000 troops." Here's one of the pictures that corroborates this. The picture shows 'Jewish' Senior Officers In Hitler's Army: Erhard Milch, Wilhelm Keitel, Walther von Brauchitsch, Erich Raeder, and Maximilian von Weichs during a Nazi rally in Nuremberg, Germany, 12 Sep 1938. PS: In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded Germany's highest military honor, the Knight's Cross.

61 posted on 08/08/2013 11:33:42 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I aim to raise a million plus for Gov. Palin. What'll you do?.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I never said that Emile was not part Jewish or that Goering's brother was not 1/4 Jewish. But Hitler was not a Rothschild. Maria Anna Schicklgruber worked for Leopold Frankenberger, who was neither a Rothschild nor the father of her son.Johann Georg Hiedler, was Alois's father and granduncle. Alois married his cousin Klara. Adolf had a thing for his niece. Vile incestuous bunch.

Nazi Hews? Yes, Nazi Jews. http://therebelpath.com/2008/02/25/nazi-jews-yes-nazi-jews/ Can you find a competent antisemite to quote?

Erhard Milch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Milch#1933.E2.80.931939
What do you a Christian with 1 Jewish grandparent who converted to Christianity? A Christian

http://www.dottal.org/150_000_jews_in_hitlers_army.htm
Can you please not be an untermensch so hobbled by your low IQ that you confuse Christian partial-JEws with actual Jews, and then buy into Holocaust denial lunacy?

62 posted on 08/08/2013 12:20:53 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: jodyel

Hi!
Ok, here are some responses to your note ...

YOURS:
I think we have different ideas of what hell is....I don’t subscribe to “burning.” I believe Hell is separation from God.
ME:
I agree, and apologize for just assuming you might subscribe to the common “burning” idea. There is scriptural reason for the burning idea, however, Matthew 18:9 comes to mind and I believe there are more...)

YOURS:
Why would the Pharisees reject Jesus when all thru the Old Testament God is clearly telling them He is bringing them a savior from their people that is both man and God? Any Pharisee who denied Christ is now in Hell.
ME:
I do not find any such “clear telling...He is bringing them a savior...that is both man and God.” Can you cite several clear verses or passages that would have told them that? I can’t, and I therefore do not believe it is right to hold them responsible for having such advance information, at least not in such a precise, clear manner. Redemption was promised several times, whether national redemption or spiritual or whatever. So we have those passages. I do not recall passages promising a savior that would be both man and God, however (unless we wish to accept the common interpretation of Isaiah’s “suffering servant” ... but that’s not entirely clear and at any event it is just one passage... )

YOU:
The Jewish people are different in the sense they were chosen by God to represent Him on earth to all peoples before Jesus was born, and they failed miserably. So He set them aside for an appointed time and turned His attention to the Gentiles.
ME:
They failed miserably, eh? They failed many times, that is true, but they always, sometimes with His help, bounced back.... and they were still very much in there ... affirming the One True God to the rest of their world, indeed most of St Paul’s travels were to Jewish synagogues that had many pagan “hangers-on” or what scholars call “God-fearers” ... people who came to the Jews to learn about God. We even have archeological inscriptions showing that these gentiles contributed to the synagogue financially (if you visit many synagogues and churches today you can see similar “we thank our contributors” plaques on the walls....). Finally, to say that the Jews “failed miserably” when Jesus came to the Jewish people and the Jewish people provided all of Jesus’ early followers, including his Apostles (and yes I am including Luke albeit there is some early church teaching otherwise), is a bit one-sided at best.
The Jews kept records of their failings over the centuries so that their children, and all Jews and Christians today, can learn from their mistakes, and know that God keeps His word even when his little Created Critters do not succeed. The fact that Christians (and Jews) today still look forward to more Good News to come ... call it rapture, Heaven, Messiah, New Jerusalem, next dispensation, or whatever .... as Paul said, “we live for hope” .... the fact that we have this hope yet today is due to all those old Jews keeping this hope alive. You will note that the Jews always found their way back to God even when they strayed. The story of the early Jews is very much our story today, at least insofar as so many people have strayed, miserably, today... and insofar as we can hope (and pray) that they may yet find their way back to God. St. Paul points out so clearly that God remains faithful to the Jews, and Jesus Himself so eloquently forgave his crucifiers. The last word we have on the subject is this forgiveness by Jesus of the human failings or shortcomings Jesus experienced at Calvary. Jesus did not abandon or condemn His Jewish people, indeed we have here the clearest possible statement of just the opposite, forgiveness, a forgiveness that even extended to Jesus’ Roman murderers and a forgiveness that cannot possibly be reconciled with, or support, any sort of replacement theology. As St. Paul then said, “all Israel will be saved”...and Paul understood all the human failings in people, including in himself and in his Jewish people, as well as anybody (outside of Jesus, of course) possibly could. God keeps His word, and any concepts of justice are always tempered with His mercy. “God is Love,” as St John explained, and if Jesus’ ministry stood for anything it is this love, implemented largely through His forgiveness and continuing redemption for His people (Jews and Christians alike).

YOURS:
Not necessarily a remnant...that is what is stated in the first chapter of Romans. I think the disagreement comes in the use of the word “all.” Might help to go back to the original Greek and Hebrew to see how that passage is worded there, but that is well beyond me. :)
ME:
It is no problem to check the Greek. Paul used the Greek word for “all” in describing which Jews will be saved. It is right there in Romans 11:26. You can check it with a Strong’s concordance, any respectable Bible commentary, or using a scholarly computer program such as Bible Works.

YOURS:
Where does it say in Scripture that a “sincerely repentant person and one who does all reasonably possible to atone for, correct his transgressions, is forgiven” outside of placing his faith in Jesus Christ? This sounds to me like salvation thru works.
ME:
Oh my, am I really ready for the “salvation through works” disputation? Ha!
At any event,
you asked for scriptural citations. The concept of repentance and then doing justly as being what God wants for His forgiveness or salvation, is replete in Scripture.
For instance, Ezekiel 18:27, “When the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.” Or Malachi 3:7, “Return to Me and I shall return to you (sayeth God)...” See also Ezekiel 33.11,19; Jeremiah 36:3, Hosea 14:3, and more.

YOURS:
Speaking against Jesus is not what condemned the Pharisees to hell. Not recognizing their need for a savior to reconcile them to God and accepting Jesus as that savior, before they died, is what condemned them to hell.
ME:
Well, of course I do not believe the Pharisees were condemned to Hell, as Jesus himself forgave his killers right at Calvary (and whatever involvement any Pharisee may have had with Jesus it was never worse than the involvement of those persons that crucified Him). And as Jesus also said, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.”
(Gospel of Matthew). Speaking against a person is always worse than merely not accepting what he has to say. Yet, speaking outright against Jesus was something Jesus said will be forgiven a man. Thus, Jesus provided explicit forgiveness, and certainly no condemnation whatsoever, for the very transgression you cite.
(Keep in mind also that the Pharisees, as Jews, were already in “salvational” Covenant with God.)

YOURS:
I believe Scripture is very clear regarding hell and who will go there and who is there now. Anyone outside the saving grace of Jesus. As real and serious as hell is, people need to be sure and not just guess or think they know. Grab a bible and read up...teach yourself and don’t depend on others words or teaching. Be a Berean and search the Scriptures diligently.
ME:
I do not claim to know it all. I make mistakes too.
But I do read the Scriptures. I find Hell to be a serious matter, I just don’t know as much about it (particularly, I do not know who may be resident therein). That God provides for our salvation we can agree on. Beyond that point, we may yet not fully agree on just how this salvational calculus all works, or as regards its possible extent in the world. One concept that some Church theologians have advanced is the idea that this salvation may extend beyond the “obvious” and may not even be fully perceived by some of those so benefited or blessed by it.
I have some quibbles with parts of this, but you can read up on it (and see if any of this rings true in light of your understanding of Scripture), perhaps by looking at such things as Karl Rahner’s “anonymous Christian,” “baptism of desire,”virtuous pagan,” and “Dominus Iesus,” particularly sections I,8; III,14; and VI,21. Again, I do not offer these as any “new gospel” but rather just as windows a person can look through to see whether some of this interpretation makes sense.

YOURS:
Reckon we have thoroughly hijacked this thread? LOL
ME:
Yup!
Ecclesiastes 1:18 and 12:12 to you!
Nlessings,
fhc

Best,


63 posted on 08/08/2013 2:04:27 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (E)
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To: faithhopecharity

I think you are just more gracious in your understanding and open to instruction. I am just the opposite. :)

I posted on that catholicsforisrael.com site and the moderator said I had an “uninformed fundamentalist/Messianic view.”

More later,
jodyel


64 posted on 08/08/2013 2:16:41 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

I do not know the site you mentioned, nor obviously its moderator.
But there are a lot of pretty uninformed people (outside of FR, obviously!) running websites these days.
Indeed, the two seem to go together almost as much as, say, politicians and corruption


65 posted on 08/08/2013 2:35:00 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (E)
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To: jodyel

I do not know the site you mentioned, nor obviously its moderator.
But there are a lot of pretty uninformed people (outside of FR, obviously!) running websites these days.
Indeed, the two seem to go together almost as much as, say, politicians and corruption


66 posted on 08/08/2013 2:40:13 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (E)
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To: faithhopecharity

http://www.catholicsforisrael.com/en/articles/testimonies/44-a-prodigal-son-returns-home

You should read his/her testimony. All over the map!


67 posted on 08/08/2013 9:02:49 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: faithhopecharity

You might be waiting a while for my reply to this, fhc. :)


68 posted on 08/09/2013 12:36:22 AM PDT by jodyel
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