NSA loophole allows warrantless search for US citizens' emails and phone calls

UK Guardian ^ | August 9, 2013 | James Ball and Spencer Ackerman

[don-o]

The National Security Agency has a secret backdoor into its vast databases under a legal authority enabling it to search for US citizens' email and phone calls without a warrant, according to a top-secret document passed to the Guardian by Edward Snowden.

[don-o]

Well, well.

Will WH Press Corpae get up to speed on this?

[don-o]

Press Corpse

[Travis McGee]

[unixfox]

The 4th Amendment doesn’t provide for loopholes!

Screw these tyrants, they can all go to hell!

[Blood of Tyrants]

There is no “loophole” in the law. There is only the law that gives them power to search.

[EEGator]

I thought you were writing in Latin.

[bamahead]

Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!

[xzins]

Next we’ll discover that “direct communication” means 2, 3, 4 or 5 degrees of separation.

Terrorist talks to American. That persons communications are then subject to recording. He talks to person 1, and that’s 1 degree of separation. Person 1 talks to person 2, and that’s 2 degrees.

The argument will be that that’s how a “secret cell” operates. One layer doesn’t know the identity of any other layers, so therefore, they must collect a variety of layers.

The only question is how many layers. I’ve read that one American is only 5 degrees of separation from any other American. We all know somebody who knows somebody, etc.,

[LibLieSlayer]

Well, well, well... looks like Snowden is winning this battle... they call him a traitor and he releases secret documents proving that our government is a traitor.

LLS

[gaijin]

I read differently; I read that any person on Earth is 4.7 degrees of separation from ANY other person on the planet.

[OneWingedShark]

There is no loophole in the 4th Amendment: all unreasonable searches are prohibited. Period. Moreover, the requirement for a warrant is that probable cause is sworn to [under penalty of perjury] — this whole idea of "probable cause" being a way around the 4th's requirement for a warrant is bullshit… it is from here that these violations stem.

[RC one]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[/i>

[Vendome]

” The previously undisclosed rule change allows NSA operatives to hunt for individual Americans’ communications using their name or other identifying information.”

Guess it’s too much expecting The United States of America to uphold and defend The Constitution.

[OneWingedShark]

There is only the law that gives them power to search.

Such law contradicts the Constitution and is therefore void — see Maybury v. Madison.

[RC one]

1 second.

[EEGator]

Terrorist:

[edcoil]

Isn’t a loophole simply something not covered under law and a clarification is required by the court? There is really no such thing as a loophole it is either covered or not covered in the law.

[OneWingedShark]

Next we’ll discover that “direct communication” means 2, 3, 4 or 5 degrees of separation.
Terrorist talks to American. That persons communications are then subject to recording. He talks to person 1, and that’s 1 degree of separation. Person 1 talks to person 2, and that’s 2 degrees.
The argument will be that that’s how a “secret cell” operates. One layer doesn’t know the identity of any other layers, so therefore, they must collect a variety of layers.
The only question is how many layers. I’ve read that one American is only 5 degrees of separation from any other American. We all know somebody who knows somebody, etc.,

Close; here's how it goes:

1. Terrorist talks to Army interrogator.
2. Interrogator is part of Army; which is an organization.
3. Anyone with relatives in the Army, or is friends with anyone in the Army, or has ever served in the Army.
4. Anyone with any form of contact of the people in #3.

There. That's how they'll justify 'hops'.

[OneWingedShark]

Yep.
What I find sad is how many people, especially in the judiciary, are willing to sacrifice the 4th on the alters of “expedience” or “benefit of the doubt [for LEOs]”.

[don-o]

Bad choice of words - loophole. It’s a provision.

[driftdiver]

I thought there was another source which indicated they were using 3 degrees of separation.

[RC one]

It is terrifying what this country is becoming. Equally terrifying that the people are allowing it to happen. We were given a a window of opportunity with our recent second amendment victories. We should not squander that window of opportunity.

“Arm yourself, my heart: the thing that you must do is fearful, yet inevitable.”

Euripides

[edcoil]

So then the reality is the law allows for warrant-less searches of US Citizens... chirping from the left...wonder why.

[OneWingedShark]

The source I read had the quote as "three or four" — which is why it was such a big deal because apparently every human being on the planet has at most only 5 degrees to every other.

It is therefore entirely plausible that "everyone in the country" is within 3 or 4 degrees and that such was a very veiled admission to spying on everyone domestically.

[Political Junkie Too]

I see the problem. I just looked at a scan of the original Bill Of Rights, and it is written in cursive. No wonder Obama and Holder don't understand what it says!

-PJ

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

unixfox ~:" The 4th Amendment doesn’t provide for loopholes! "

For the 4th Amendment to be functioning in the Republic , you need a system of checks and balances.

The Congress is effite and ineffective , and not holding to their Constitutional oath ,
The Judiciary is slow and deliberate , and almost useless within the existing delays and time constraints
The Executive branch is in Dictatorial like over-reach and micro-management in terms of control
and is backed by an equally over-reaching "Dept. of JUST-US" which is involved in delay , deny , obfiscate , deny , delay, etc..

[driftdiver]

One article I read said it was 4.7 but I think it depends on the study and interpretation.

[OneWingedShark]

One article I read said it was 4.7 but I think it depends on the study and interpretation.

Ceiling of 4.7 would be 5; I'm probably just paraphrasing that study (I skimmed the one linked to that story).

[Triple]

Agreed!

Unless the “loophole” is the officially declared state of emergency that the USA has been under since @1935. These are extended at least yearly by executive order, and are published in the federal register.

I have never seen an answer to what the government thinks it can do, because there is a declared state of emergency (that it could not otherwise.)

[driftdiver]

Nevertheless, the NSA is monitoring every American (except those in mosques) and providing the data to other federal agencies to include IRS, DEA, DHS, FBI and probably anyone else who asks for it.

[New Jersey Realist]

I’m sure whatever evidence they turn up with a warrant will be tossed out at the arraignment.

[Buckeye McFrog]

Ooops! Sorry, Barry.

Eddie can drip faster than you can spin.

[bamahead]

Nevertheless, the NSA is monitoring every American (except those in mosques) and providing the data to other federal agencies to include IRS, DEA, DHS, FBI and probably anyone else who asks for it.

You're probably more right than you'd like to be:

Other Agencies Clamor for Data N.S.A. Compiles

[Alas Babylon!]

So please grade me on my scenario, Rev!

Abdul the Terrorist calls the bank to check up on that deposit from the Saudi Wahhabi Oil Sheik Benevolent Fund (The same fund that gives Obama money to oppose the Keystone pipeline and pays John McCain to advocate war with Syria)), and so that bank clerk he talked to is the 1st degree of separation. Later that day a pizza store owner calls into that bank and our newly made person-of-interest clerk answers questions about his checking account, that’s the degree of separation number 2. That evening you call in a take-out pizza. Now you’re the 3rd degree of separation. So it’s ok to spy on you without a warrant, right?

Seriously, they’ve thrown the Constitution we took a mortal oath to right into the garbage.

[SgtBilko]

“There. That’s how they’ll justify ‘hops’.”

The fun fact is: Everybody on the planet knows anybody else on the plant with an average of only 6 “hops”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

[b4its2late]

It’s because the voting public is asleep at the switch and too low information thanks to the democrats and their allies the media. including the entertainment media.

[OneWingedShark]

The fun fact is: Everybody on the planet knows anybody else on the plant with an average of only 6 “hops”.

Recent research has the number at 4.7 :(

[LyinLibs]

“Loophole” has 2 definitons:

#1 a lawful activity liberals wish to outlaw.

#2 an illegal activity conducted by liberals under the guise of legality, excused by the deliberate misreading of a vaguely written law.

[Blood of Tyrants]

What does a totalitarian like Obama care for the Constitution? It’s not there is anyone with enough guts to try to stop him.

[LyinLibs]

If we wish to be exempt from monitoring why don’t we just make toilet-paper turbans and babble in fake Arabic, then declare everybody’s garage a “mosque?”

[Black Agnes]

Put me on the list or else!

[null and void]

Both halves please? Or else what?

[SgtBilko]

“Recent research has the number at 4.7 :(”

sarc
That’s good news for the tax payer. So the NSA doesn’t need larger computers.
sarc/

Always when i read articles in the newspapers about the new NSA computing facility in utah i think: It seems to be a good time to buy shares of computer storage manufactoring companies. :-(

[Black Agnes]

I’ll report you to the mods! And make a voodoo doll of a void and stick it with null pins.

[null and void]

Terrorists order pizza to munch while plotting.

Anyone else who calls the same pizza parlor is one hop.

If any of them calls out for Chinese later that’s two hops.

Anyone else who called the same Chinese restaurant is three hops.

[null and void]

THANK YOU! I have eagerly been waiting for the day I could add you! Welcome aboard!

[Red in Blue PA]

“A chill wind is blowing in this nation. A message is being sent through the White House and its allies… If you oppose this administration, there can and will be ramifications.”

Tim Robbins
April 15, 2003

[RedMDer]

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[cherokee1]

There’s no news here unless you(anybody) haven’t been paying attention for , oh, I dunno, maybe four decades. NSA has the gear to listen to almost anything. The actual limitation is that they can’t use warrantless search info in a prosecution. The question that needs to be asked of Obozo is “How do you keep from using overheard conversations/communications in a political campaign?” And “do you use this info in your own campaign?” And “have you-—”?

[OneWingedShark]

The actual limitation is that they can’t use warrantless search info in a prosecution.

This can be sidestepped by parallel construction ad other methods.
Moreover, there is way too much potential for blackmail/extortion with these systems.

We need to disband the NSA and prosecute everyone who was working there, or contracted with them, for deprivation of rights under color of law, and conspiracy against rights.

Terrorist threats are less to be feared than exactly what our government is doing.