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Britain, Spain in Renewed Dispute Over Gibraltar
Washington Times ^ | August 12, 2013 | Shaun Waterman

Posted on 08/12/2013 5:25:20 PM PDT by lbryce

Great Britain on Monday sent warships to the Mediterranean and weighed legal action against Spain in a territorial dispute over the Gibraltar peninsula, as Madrid threatened to join with Argentina in a U.N. effort to strip Britain of the last remnants of its empire.

In London, Ministry of Defense officials told the BBC that the Royal Navy deployments are part of a long-planned military exercise and not connected to the three-centuries old dispute over the Gibraltar enclave.

The feud between the European allies has erupted anew in recent weeks amid Spanish protests over an effort to create an artificial reef offshore.

Britain claims that Spain has illegally tightened border and customs controls in an effort to sabotage the tourist industry on the peninsula.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: dispute; england; gibraltar; renewed; spain
What's with Great Britain and the delusion of itself as some global player, unmatched naval power, desperately clinging to the remnants of what once was the British Empire at its most expansive?

Forget that its military, naval forces have been pared to the bone and beyond not being able to afford the most basic of military expenditures, as far as England is concerned tradition trumps realism, pragmatism as the misguided perspective of British foreign policy that guides its priorities to spend billions of dollars maintaining the far-flung remnants of wilderness and desolation it desperately feels the need to hold on to as the moral equivalent of slavery and the vanity that drives them to challenge every attempt by sovereign nations to claim what is rightfully theirs. In the halcyon days of England's overwhelming naval power, these sovereign nations had no choice but to accede to the demand of British expansionism and imperialism. Might makes right, and until the modern era where England can not nearly achieve a militarily-potent force it has no business holding on to sovereign nation's territory illegally usurped by intimidation and military intervention.

The Falklands War, if ever a pointless exercise in brinkmanship there ever was, its legacy of untold dead soldiers in an effort to salvage is national honor, hegemony, in exchange for some lifeless strip of land thousands of miles away, demonstrates the manner in which Great Britain today still sees itself as the glorious empire of yesteryear of which the sun having set upon it long ago. Despite all that, England can boast of the proud stewardship remaining responsible for a chain of desolate islands with no strategic attributes, situated within close proximity of the South Pole.

All I can muster is to say is "Hail, Britannica" in sarcasm and cynicism.

And now England is off again on an ill-advised, misguided mission to retain Gibraltar, again,probably at all costs. The difference is that this time it is NATO it is going to have to deal with and not some banana-republic triumvirate. But national pride makes nations o things it usually ends up regretting and England's traditions, institutions are burnished into the British psyche, not easily abandoned.

When it comes to its national interests, traditions, institutions Britain can be a very entrenched, stubborn entity.

Take its adoration of the British Monarchy. Its support of the slacker parasites that sponge off the British people that comprise the British Monarchy in all its inglorious, self-validating pointlessness has wseven in 10 Britons believing the monarchy is good for the country and only 22 percent support abolishing the institution, a poll released Friday found.

Americans understand the mentality in which its royal subjects are infatuated with the aggrandizement in which the institution of the Monarchy is so beloved, in a manner not unlike America's own infatuation with Royalty in the guise of the worship of the couple that would be Camelot, Barack and Michelle as America's First Couple accorded the same sense of fealty and subservience on Obama, as the President King and the gracious Lady Michelle, as Bizarro doppleganger to England's Queen. Michelle's arrogance, who believes herself as inheritor of the 'divine right of kings' hasn't been witnessed since the words "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche",Let them eat cake, was invoked over three hundred years ago.

The Monarchy is the British people's own unique vice, that despite outlasting its usefulness nevertheless adds a sense of decorum, class and grace to the British national character, that America with its pseudo-elite black trash version of white trash can, will never emulate.

1 posted on 08/12/2013 5:25:21 PM PDT by lbryce
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To: lbryce

Let your culture and your military go to seed, and there are consequences.


2 posted on 08/12/2013 5:27:54 PM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: lbryce

Are the apes still there?

If so then it isn’t time for the Brits to leave.


3 posted on 08/12/2013 5:29:22 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: lbryce

Last I heard, the inhabitants of that place voted in mass to remain with the UK. Better to stick with the wishes of those people, than to let the money-hungry socialists steal the place through UN sanction.


4 posted on 08/12/2013 5:29:53 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: lbryce

What are you talking about?

Gibraltar has been British longer than American has been a country.

It more likely has to do with the failed socialist policies of Spain (and Argentina).

When you have 25%+ unemployment at home, a crap economy and restless people - you can either change your socialist polices (like that is ever going to happen)

OR

find a bogey man to take the people’s mind off how bad your government sucks.

Start pushing for war. Nationalism.

It hides a lot of sins.


5 posted on 08/12/2013 5:30:13 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: BenLurkin

I bet they are. I visited Gib way back when. The coolest passport stamp ever.


6 posted on 08/12/2013 5:30:41 PM PDT by Tea Party Terrorist (Those who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: lbryce

Spanish politics (and Argentine politics) again. Whenever they feel they are in political trouble they make noises about Gibraltar or the Falklands.


7 posted on 08/12/2013 5:34:42 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: lbryce

As much as I despise all players involved in these disputes (all socialist hellholes), Gibraltar is rightfuly the property of the UK.

I for one am SICK of this Palestinian-eque new fad of trying to rewrite history. Spain’s monarchy signed Gibraltar over to Britain INDEFINITELY. Spain has NO case whatsoever. The contract was legally binding. That being said, the majority of Gibralatans want to remain part of the UK, and that should be respected.

As for the Falklands, again the historical case is with Britain. Argentina does not have any kind of valid claim, and they lost the war in the 80s.

Lose a war. Get over it.
This is as bad as us whining that the Vietnam War’s outcome should be overturned. Imagine how idiotic that would be.


8 posted on 08/12/2013 5:36:46 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: 2banana

“find a bogey man to take the people’s mind off how bad your government sucks.

Start pushing for war. Nationalism.

It hides a lot of sins.”

Worked well for Galtieri in Buenos Aires didn’t it? /s


9 posted on 08/12/2013 5:38:31 PM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: lbryce

Britain may have gone soft, but in a military encounter between GB and Spain, or GB and Argentina, or GB vs. Spain and Argentina, my money’s on the Brits.

As for national pride; if the citizens of either country had more than the token of national pride that they exhibit now when a royal couple has a baby, or fireworks hit half price on July 5th, our countries might still be the beacons of the West they once were.


10 posted on 08/12/2013 5:42:12 PM PDT by ThomasSawyer (Democratic Underground: Proof that anyone can figure out how to use a computer.)
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To: 2banana

Okay, I concur. But it in no way does your comment change any of the points I’ve made about England’s need to return Gibraltar to Spain,if you took the time to read my comments, arguments about England’s hegemony over Gibraltar. The amount of time England has occupied Gibraltar adds nothing to its claim of maintaining the island for itself.


11 posted on 08/12/2013 5:42:36 PM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1157 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
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To: lbryce

While we had our differences in the Revolutionary War, Britain has since been our ally in two world wars, Korean, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and Iraq wars. Reagan and Thatcher together brought down the Soviet Communists. The long running alliance is strained now, however, with the comrade we have running things.


12 posted on 08/12/2013 5:42:55 PM PDT by sasportas
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: lbryce

“Take its adoration of the British Monarchy. Its support of the slacker parasites that sponge off the British people that comprise the British Monarchy in all its inglorious, self-validating pointlessness has wseven in 10 Britons believing the monarchy is good for the country and only 22 percent support abolishing the institution, a poll released Friday found.”

The True Cost of the Royal Family Explained:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw


14 posted on 08/12/2013 5:49:43 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: Tea Party Terrorist

“As long as Gibraltor is British the baboons will inhabit the cliffs,”Winston Churchill.


15 posted on 08/12/2013 6:20:11 PM PDT by ping jockey (Justice is blind)
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To: BenLurkin

There were there two years ago. One sat on my daughter’s shoulders and promptly wet her back. Yuk! Luckily she was very good humored about it.


16 posted on 08/12/2013 6:32:37 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: buwaya; 2banana; Viennacon
If you look at the countries' like Spain and Argentina you will find historical precedence for having trampled upon their national dignity and pride that have never been addressed let alone resolved. England, certainly more arrogant and aggressive in flouting international law, because they could, having made an indelible mark on the nations they did with as they pleased, the history of which is made part of the nation's identity passed on from generation to generation.

While the facts of England's having flouted international law with impunity, the facts remain obscure and not known as well as they should.

Like some old, volatile domestic dispute that remains just beneath the surface, the slightest provocation will have the details come flooding back with abandon.

And in times of a nation's crisis the same phenomena can occur with countries under economic, political duress will cause similar phenomena.

Have you researched the details in which England took Gibraltar from Spanish hegemony? It's not pretty, that remains very much on the minds of the citizenry like some pulsating, deep-seated wound that never leaves their psyches.

Ask an American Indian wherever you might find one, how he feels about what happened hundreds of years ago of what the Europeans did to the Indian nation (despite the innumerable casinos granted.

These is exactly the way countries victimized by England, including Spain /Gibraltar feel, despite England being in control of Gibraltar for as long as they did. All very true. These issues are deeply imbedded within the psyche of countries like Spain and Argentina, their natiojnal hono such as Spain ado come up during national crises that otherwise remain dormant

17 posted on 08/12/2013 6:35:48 PM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1157 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
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To: lbryce
The amount of time England has occupied Gibraltar adds nothing to its claim of maintaining the island for itself.

Island?

18 posted on 08/12/2013 6:38:27 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Don't assume Shahanshah Obama will allow another election.)
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To: lbryce
And now England is off again on an ill-advised, misguided mission to retain Gibraltar, again,probably at all costs. The difference is that this time it is NATO it is going to have to deal with and not some banana-republic triumvirate.

Really? The major current NATO operation is Afghanistan. The UK has 9000 troops there Spain has 1305. Who is it in NATO's interest to back?

19 posted on 08/12/2013 6:42:59 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools - Solon, Lawmaker of Athens)
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To: lbryce

A couple of comments.

The role of the Monarchy is critical to the constitutional governance of the United Kingdom. If the monarchy did not exist, there would be very little to stop a British government turning into a tyranny in short order. There’s a reason why support for abolishing the Monarchy tends to come from the left wing in Britain.

To abolish the Monarchy and still maintain reasonable checks and balances on the powers of Parliament, would require a completely new British constitution. Who would write it? David Cameron? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair? Gordon Brown? Look at who is leading the country - there aren’t any Jeffersons there. America managed to create a successful republic because it had genius patriots who had risked all to do it. Many more republics have failed, because they did not have that.

The Monarchy contributes about five to ten times as much to the national economy as it receives in funding, just by virtue of the incomes of the Crown Estate being given to the treasury (before even considering things like tourist value), so it isn’t a cost to the people. In terms of them being parasites, there are currently eleven Princes of the United Kingdom alive. Two of these are a baby and a small child, leaving nine who have reached adulthood. Eight of that nine have served in their country’s military. How many wealthy families involved in America’s government have that type of record of service - and that’s just one type of service?

In terms of the Falklands, 255 British servicemen were killed fighting that war that successfully recovered a British possession that had been invaded and seized, and which was full of people who wanted to be British. The British have now lost 444 soldiers in Afghanistan with far less tangible results, fighting a war they entered to support your nation when it was attacked. I’m not saying it was not worth it - you don’t measure such things in casualties - but I really wonder how you dare to criticise their sacrifice to protect their own.

When it comes to Gibraltar, Britain has twice offered Gibraltans the chance to choose to become part of Spain in referendums. Both times the citizens of Gibraltar have rejected that offer. Gibraltar has been British for 300 years ceded to Britain under treaties. Would you suggest America give Alaska back to the Russians? Or maybe to Canada as it is, after all, attached to Alaska. Gibraltar is, by the way, about the same distance from Britain as Alaska is from the rest of the United States (nearest point to nearest point).


20 posted on 08/12/2013 6:46:06 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: lbryce
I did.

Nearly ALL Americans Indians sided and fought with the British during the American Revolution.

They committed countless atrocities during that time period

The lands they "owned" were stolen from another tribe of Indians further back in history.

I don't care how they feel. In fact - f*ck them.

Ask an American Indian wherever you might find one, how he feels about what happened hundreds of years ago of what the Europeans did to the Indian nation (despite the innumerable casinos granted.

21 posted on 08/12/2013 6:50:24 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: lbryce

“Ask an American Indian wherever you might find one, how he feels about what happened hundreds of years ago of what the Europeans did to the Indian nation”

Really??? Are we going there?
It is very Al Sharpton to peddle grievance.

The facts are the facts. Spain signed a contract that permanently gave the land to Britain. A contract is your word.

As for Argentina, they had no historical claim, so they invaded. They were DEFEATED, and were sent home crying.

If Spain or Argentina wants to have these territories, then they should go to war for them, not try to steal them in some kind of international court jujitsu.

As you allude to, this is fire-stoking by corrupt politicos who want to distract populations from government abuse and stagnant economies.

“England, certainly more arrogant and aggressive in flouting international law”

You’d struggle to find a single nation on earth that hadn’t flouted ‘international law’, going back far enough. Nations do what is in their interest.


22 posted on 08/12/2013 6:52:00 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: lbryce
"These is exactly the way countries victimized by England, including Spain /Gibraltar feel, despite England being in control of Gibraltar for as long as they did. All very true. These issues are deeply imbedded within the psyche of countries like Spain and Argentina, their natiojnal hono such as Spain ado come up during national crises that otherwise remain dormant "

I dont think Spain has any grounds to boo hoo over territory that another nation legally controls over the objection of the nation it was once part of.









Not to mention the territories in Africa they still cling to even though Morocco claims them like Spain claims Gibraltar


23 posted on 08/12/2013 6:54:48 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: lbryce

One of Obama’s shills couldn’t have said it better.


24 posted on 08/12/2013 7:35:37 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: lbryce
So, when is Spain going to surrender its possessions in North Africa?
25 posted on 08/12/2013 8:10:19 PM PDT by Darteaus94025 (Phony President)
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To: lbryce
BWA-HAHAHA!!!

What "island" are you talking about?

26 posted on 08/12/2013 8:14:42 PM PDT by Darteaus94025 (Phony President)
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To: Darteaus94025
I don't mind being the butt of your jokes simply because any one else with a modicum of class, common sense, savoir faire, an IQ greater than the grade you completed in middle-school would realize the description wasn't as ignorant,clueless as you seem to be.


27 posted on 08/12/2013 8:35:36 PM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1157 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
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To: ping jockey

Saying it half in jest, there are many things Churchil said that didn’t come to fruition.


28 posted on 08/12/2013 8:46:02 PM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1157 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
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To: 2banana

Damn, I never knew the Pueblo, Apache, Navajo, and Comanche fought for the Brits. I guess you learn something new every day!!


29 posted on 08/12/2013 9:20:51 PM PDT by sean327 (God created all men equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: lbryce
Your description of Gibraltar as an island "wasn't as ignorant, [sic] clueless as [I] seem to be"?

I'm trying to understand; so, your description of Gibraltar as an island was NOT clueless?

BWA-HAHAHA!!! Stop digging!

30 posted on 08/13/2013 12:37:50 AM PDT by Darteaus94025 (Phony President)
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To: lbryce

How ironic that for all your voluminous musings on this matter, you think England and Britain are the same thing. Rather undermines your credibility. Along with believing Gibraltar is an island.


31 posted on 08/13/2013 4:38:10 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: lbryce

The effort is not misguided.

Gibraltar is a profit center.

There’s money at stake


32 posted on 08/13/2013 4:41:00 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Travon... Felony assault and battery hate crime)
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To: Darteaus94025
What am I supposed to be digging for? Oh, never mind.

How you managed to survive FR since 2005 is a mystery of the ages. (Hm. Unless the asylum only recently restored your internet privileges after eight years)

Question:How do you use the keyboard while wearing your straight jacket?Oh, BTW: Some people refer to the planet Earth as an island.
Can you imagine? BWA-HAHAHA!!!

33 posted on 08/13/2013 5:51:31 AM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1157 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
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To: lbryce
While sending a warship to Gibraltar may seem a bit like saber rattling, there is a very practical, possibly life saving reason:

Spanish coast guard vessels are SHOOTING at jet skiers!

Perhaps the presence of a Brit warship will curtail such reckless, deadly behavior.

What happened to the concept of open borders?

The EU is truly doomed with this type of petty state Bickering.

Spain is in the wrong here. Spain ceded Gibraltar to Britain 300 years age. Gibraltans (?) have repeatedly voted, by wide margin, to remain British subjects. I firmly believe in the people's right of self-determination.

Spain ceded Gibraltar to Britain 300 years ago. The Moors held it for 700 years before Spain retook it from them. By Spain's logic, Morocco is the rightful owner.

34 posted on 08/13/2013 6:25:17 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: lbryce

Is that why you call Gibralter an island and engage in ad hominum attacks when it’s pointed out?

You could [GASP!], simply acknowledge the error and move on. That’s what big boys and girls do. Don’t you want to be like them someday?

BYE!


35 posted on 08/13/2013 11:03:51 AM PDT by Darteaus94025 (Phony President)
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To: 2banana

Bravo!


36 posted on 08/13/2013 12:04:14 PM PDT by Yehuda
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To: lbryce

very true but Gibraltar is British and the baboons are still picking gum and candy from the pockets of tourists.


37 posted on 08/13/2013 5:26:31 PM PDT by ping jockey (Justice is blind)
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