Skip to comments.Time For Third Party
Posted on 08/13/2013 8:02:18 AM PDT by xzins
Last week I wrote a column about the reality that House Republicans are ready to cave on so-called comprehensive immigration reform. There was a final paragraph in that column my editor decided not to use. Ironically, what was omitted by my editor was not lost on scores of astute letter writers who commented on the piece. I would like them to know that I have the same feelings as they do regarding what House Republicans are contemplating. Here is the paragraph that was omitted:
Hence, a prediction. If Republicans abet the passage of comprehensive immigration reformpiecemeal or otherwisea third political party will emerge from the ashes. That third party will be the Republicans, who will be relegated to the back of the political bus by Democrats, and whatever party manages to address the concerns of millions of ordinary Americans who have been marginalized by the ruling elites in both parties. For those millions of Americans, a federal government run by one-and-a-half parties attuned to the progressive agenda is rapidly approaching the end of its shelf life.
The latest outrage in that regard, the taxpayer subsidization of Congressional staff members and other Washington insiders for the cost of Obamacare, is ruling class elitism writ large. The even lamer excuse for it, that the nations capitol would suffer a brain drain if these insiders were forced to underwrite the total cost of their own healthcare, is laughable. Many of these so-called brains are the same committee staffers responsible for pulling the elements of the healthcare bill together in the first place, just as they are responsible for creating many of the other gargantuanand unreadbills passed by their equally irresponsible Congressional employers.
If this is the best Washington, D.C. has to offer, by all means, let the brain drain begin.
(Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...
No, we need a second party. The Democrats and Republican establishment are one party.
Maybe I am overly optimistic, but I believe it is exactly this, that Sarah Palin is currently waiting on.
If the GOP sells out America in this regard, I believe we will see a new party. Overnight.
Hopefully one, which believes in making things in America once again.
If the GOP sells out America in this regard, I believe we will see a new party. Overnight.
I don't believe that. I'm sure of it.
In before the lib wing screaming how we have to keep electing libs with R’s behind their names cuz they have R’s behind their names...
Today’s political environment:
When the choice is between two despotic lizards,
you have to vote for a despotic lizard or else the
“wrong” despotic lizard will get into power.
That is a fact.
I keep forgetting voting for abortionillegalimmigrationobamacarehomosexualmilitarygutting Republicans is a conservative value.
If they approve the continuing resolution with the obamacare money included. Expect amnesty for illegals next.
I posted my thoughts earlier under the title: “What else could the next American Revolution be; a Third Party?”
Ok, NOW are you ready for a Third Party, a party with some fight... come out from among them and be holy, says the Creator to His people... DC is a hell hole filled with power hungry, slathering dogs, who’s purpose is to sow discord “among the brethren” (read pre-Obama Americans) so as to ingratiate themselves and impoverish us.
DC is a corrupting influence and no man is immune... even some conservatives who’ve been lifted by the wings of the tea party are caving. If you’re calling yourself a Republican but are disgusted by their lack of will to fight and even capitulate, then become this Third Party Movement... doesn’t mean you can’t vote for a Cruz for prez, but what it does mean; it will consolidate real political power for conservatism. As it is, conservatism’s power is watered down and made ineffectual when deposited in the GOP. Just call it, The Conservative Party; youth fortified, more diverse, but wholly conservative, and upholding the Judeo-Christian beliefs as sacrosanct... our motto “freedom from tyranny”; arguing that tyranny comes from those in power and governments. Our goal is to limit the powers of Federal, State and Local governments, and restoring individual self determinism, property rights and reforming taxation, as a starting point.
Among our FIRST acts will be to limit the number of terms a member of congress can stay in DC. No man has the capacity to resist the corrupting influence of the seat of power in human government. SECOND will be the deconstructing of Federal Bureaucracies. THIRD will be to eliminate the IRS, ridding ourselves of the tyrant’s hunting dogs.
What else could the next American Revolution be?... Hey Mark Levin, love ya brother, but if you want real change, ya gotta lead the next American Revolution, if you won’t, someone else surely will!
Dem and dem lite
read the 2nd paragraph....it seems to be saying the same thing as you
Exactly. We’re under a one party system. The gop and ‘rat wings of the uniparty differ somewhat in their rhetoric for mass consumption, but differ not at all in their governance.
I think the days of maintaining freedom with poltical parties have come and one.
I would of course support a second political party led by Sarah Palin, but I do wonder if it would be too little, too late.
Everyone talks a good game about third parties when an election isn't near. Then, when Election Day is close, everyone abandons the idea of third parties and spends endless bandwidth about how we must must MUST vote for someone like Romney - no matter how many bad things we said and identified about him in the past.
I predict the same cycle for 2014 and 2016 (and beyond).
The only one that was anywhere close to being successful in recent history was Ross Perot's in 1992, and it gave us Bill Clinton.
Best to work within the top two that we already have.
2014 will tell the tale, if we cannot unseat the primary Rino’s then all is lost through 2016, so if after the 2014, things are not changed a third party will be mandatory, an extremely hard row to hoe indeed.
So critical is 2014 that if we fail, I am sure I will not live long enough, to see, a free republic.
“Among our FIRST acts will be to limit the number of terms a member of congress can stay in DC. No man has the capacity to resist the corrupting influence of the seat of power in human government. SECOND will be the deconstructing of Federal Bureaucracies. THIRD will be to eliminate the IRS, ridding ourselves of the tyrants hunting dogs”.
Unless the point is to reduce the Senate term to that of a Representative of the people, two years, the point is pointless. Term limits is a stupid if not dead issue. How long one is in Washington isn’t an issue. How long your are there and maintain a principled life is. If you are a treasonous turncoat, you shouldn’t be in government, and term limits isn’t going to change the tigers stripes. An informed electorate might but even that has proven to be a bridge too far.
The other two issues I am in complete agreement with, but first you have to take over all three branches of Government to accomplish the goal, and government is not so easily taken over. The founders laid out the proper, and the last ditch methods for doing so. It remains for the voice of the people to rally around the cause of proper, or last ditch. Remaining comments self censored.
If you people go third party, you will put the Democrats in permanent majority status. If you’re cool with that, go ahead.
Third parties have not fared well in American politics even with dynamic leadership, Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose Party for example. What is needed is reform from within the GOP. The conservatives should convene a summit bringing together conservative voices both within the party and without. Certainly Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin would be on the list, but other conservative minded thinkers like Mark Levin and yes, even Rush Limbaugh and Tea Party leaders should have a place. Black and Hispanic conservatives should also be prominently invited. I would leave GOP moderates off the list. The purpose would be to create something like Newt's Contract with American that was so successful in taking back Congress in 1994. Instead of the namby-pamby mush that currently passes for GOP positions on key issue this should be a clear vision and easy to understand. Like in 1994 let GOP candidates sign on to this contract before the 2014 elections.
When this summit convenes the MSM should be absolutely barred from attending or being leaked anything. They will denigrate the whole thing anyway. The MSM should also be targeted ...remember how Newt successfully turned on the media in the GOP primary debates? A good start would be to refuse to have any MSM types moderating the presidential debates.
The American people are sick to death of what is happening in Washington and how government has grown to the point of controlling their very lives. This discontent needs to be harnessed to take back our country.
third party only works by kicking the rinos out and keeping the principle party ourselves.
Essentially the inside beltway-ers are quarenteened in a stupidity party. Fools who we no longer have to suffer.
What’s the difference between the Democrats who promote a leftist agenda and establishment Republicans who promote the Democrat agenda ? As I said, we need a SECOND party that fights against the leftist agenda. If the Republican establishment won’t, then we will either remove them or find a vehicle that will.
Your suggested alternative then?!
We are there now. Toss in amnesty and the deal is permanently done. Even when the Republicans had the house, senate and white house what did we get?
The patriot act, the tsa, a light bulb ban, medicare part D, and two rounds of nation building. All while government spending grew twice as fast as it did under Clinton.
Forgive me for not having your enthusiasm for republicans.
I agree. There seems to be many FReepers who believe that if we just had the right candidate who could skillfully articulate the conservative message then the electorate would flock to our cause. The electorate is now made up of moochers, looters and inner city tribal parasites who will vote for whoever will give them the most free stuff. The frog has been boiled and we are headed for Idiocracy.
One basic reason that 3rd parties haven't fared well in American political history is that the Constitution was NOT written for a system that had political parties at all. It was written for a nation of states that used an electoral college to vote for president and vice president out of all eligible citizens known to those electors. There is no mention in the constitution of creating parties, holding conventions, declaring candidacy, running campaigns, or even holding primaries. NONE of this stuff that we do is in the constitution. Conceivably, under the system in the Constitution as originally envisioned,those electors last year could have decided on Adam West or Sheriff Arpaio. As a result of that system, the electoral college needed backup in case no majority vote was forthcoming. That eventuality defaulted to the House of Reps. If they EC couldn't get a majority, then the House of Reps, it was thought could. They would vote, with one vote per state, for the top 3 vote getters from the Electoral College vote. With "parties" imposed on this system, that means that any candidate who doesn't have a majority of votes in the House of Representatives would never become president in a 3 way race that goes to the Electoral College. Those delegates would not have a majority after the EC votes. That decision would default to the House of Representatives, and a third party, having no members of their upstart party in the House of Representatives would NEVER be elected. The system makes it virtually impossible for a 3rd party candidate to win. How did Lincoln do it? They had a few years to grow some of their own members of the House, but more importantly they had a number of sitting representatives who had resigned their old parties and joined the new (at that time) Republican Party. In order to quickly have a THIRD PARTY in our day, the third party would have to take over an existing party. Otherwise, they would have to slowly build from the grassroots up over a number of years.
One basic reason that 3rd parties haven't fared well in American political history is that the Constitution was NOT written for a system that had political parties at all. It was written for a nation of states that used an electoral college to vote for president and vice president out of all eligible citizens known to those electors. There is no mention in the constitution of creating parties, holding conventions, declaring candidacy, running campaigns, or even holding primaries. NONE of this stuff that we do is in the constitution.
Conceivably, under the system in the Constitution as originally envisioned,those electors last year could have decided on Adam West or Sheriff Arpaio.
As a result of that system, the electoral college needed backup in case no majority vote was forthcoming. That eventuality defaulted to the House of Reps. If they EC couldn't get a majority, then the House of Reps, it was thought could. They would vote, with one vote per state, for the top 3 vote getters from the Electoral College vote.
With "parties" imposed on this system, that means that any candidate who doesn't have a majority of votes in the House of Representatives would never become president in a 3 way race that goes to the Electoral College. Those delegates would not have a majority after the EC votes. That decision would default to the House of Representatives, and a third party, having no members of their upstart party in the House of Representatives would NEVER be elected.
The system makes it virtually impossible for a 3rd party candidate to win. How did Lincoln do it? They had a few years to grow some of their own members of the House, but more importantly they had a number of sitting representatives who had resigned their old parties and joined the new (at that time) Republican Party.
In order to quickly have a THIRD PARTY in our day, the third party would have to take over an existing party. Otherwise, they would have to slowly build from the grassroots up over a number of years.
While I understand why term limits is brought up as a solution, I dont think its enough to fix the issue. Here are some proposals I have heard that I like as they make sure that elected officials actually do feel our pain.
1. All laws, rules, regulations, treaties, decrees, executive orders, statutes, ordinances, levies, fees, and taxes will apply equally to all citizens including elected and appointed government officials and employees.
2. There will be no laws, rules, regulations, treaties, decrees, executive orders, statutes, ordinances, levies, fees, and taxes that only apply to elected or appointed government officials and employees.
Yours is about the only post I see an honest assessment of reality here.
If any of you folks actually think that elections from 2009-forward are going to effect any kind of change beyond the Politburo-Imperial Party now ruling in Washington - you have no clue what time it is, and what the reality is.
Political parties, elections - from now on - it’s just a shell game to create an illusion that we the little people still have an electoral voice in this country.
There is NO WORKING with a system these MarxoFascists have corrupted. They have changed the rules and rigged everything to ensure they remain in power for perpetuity.
What we saw in 2012, is now going to be unleashed for the mid-terms. And you watch - miraculously the Democrats are going to “retake” the House and Pelosi is again going to be Speaker.
Not because the people will vote that way - but because the fraud, deceit and corruption will be whatever the Ruling Class says the vote tally is.
It’s not who casts the votes that matters. It’s who COUNTS the votes that matters.
Romney is in alignment with Obama on every one of those issues.
Exactly my point. And many here still defend voting for him when they knew it when they did it.
Not I ... I voted for George Washington. It’s better to stand like a man before tyrants, even unto death, than to kneel before RINOs like a 2 dollar whore.
America, like Europe is screwed.
The world will be Asian dominated by the end of the century,
and that might not be a bad thing!
And a Romney style battle rifle ban.
BOO! I’M SCARED.
The Democrats have been in majority status since Reagan. The GOP is not conservative, and it doesn’t like them. Hell, they didn’t even like Reagan.
Where was your conservative GOP hero this last three decades? Where is his manifesto, his raison d’être? The GOP has abdicated all authority, refused to perform their Constitutional duties and fattened themselves at the same trough as the Democratsa trough filled with the blood and treasure of the taxpayers.
Keep repeating the mantra: “just trust us, or it will get worse.” Worse than Obama who was handed a second term on a silver GOP platter? REALLY, HOW MUCH WORSE WILL IT GET?
Third Parties have always had a place in the political system of the United States from the Know Nothings, to the Prohibitionists and Free Soilers. Sometimes third parties become one of the two—Ever wonder why we no longer have Federalists, and Whigs? Republicans were once a 3rd Party—in the 1850s. The Third Party is where the people can show their anger and fustrations. SO—that being said—We need a 3rd Party Now. Liberty Party has been floated-—a Constutionalist Party for the national stage. Not a Ross Perot ego trip but a real party with solid ideas. These right wing, conservative ideas can be presented and formalized in the national arena of ideas. the Tea Party couldn’t do it—this is the right forum. just as the English formed the UKIP we need to form this and form it TOday. We need to attract a new breed of political leadership based on real people not lawyer/politicians. We need an Organ —a national Newspaper (can start as a newsletter) It needs symbols, flags, songs and a distict theam and color (s). My Ideas I have stated before:
1. Name: Liberty Party
2. Symbol: The eagle
3. Motto: Take America Back!
4. national newsletter; The Torch of Freedom
5. Song: “She’s a grand old Flag,” “All out for Freedom”
6. Platform: same as tea Party—Lower taxes, fewer regulations, term limits, freedom of speech, Workfare not welfare, closed borders. etc...
7. Flag: the flag used by the Whiskey Rebellion! (another tax revolt).
Any other ideas?
We don’t need a 3rd party. I want my party back. The republican party. Why should I be the one to leave? All the rino’s are the ones that need to leave. When will we get sick enough of them, make a plan and do something about it?
You imply that Lincoln was elected by the House of Representatives.
Lincoln - and the “Third Party” Republicans - received a majority of the electoral votes and a plurality of the popular vote.
Interestingly, there were FOUR major candidates in the 1860 election.
I think the lesson of 1860 is that a “Third Party” candidate can win, but ONLY if there are FOUR reasonably strong national political parties.
Elections are not going to stop this MarxoFascist juggernaut, regardless of party.
Elections are irrelevant. They are a corrupted shell-game to keep the illusion alive that you have a voice in who rules you.
You don’t. Cook County went National. We’ve seen our last honest national election back in 2008. From then on, elections are Soviet-styled shell games with candidates and winners chosen by The Ruling Class.
Parties are irrelevant unless they are allied with the MarxoFascist Democrat / Ruling Class agenda.
We have no voice in Washington.
We have no representation in government.
They despise and loathe us Conservatives.
They are no longer afraid of We The People. They know where the power now lies and how rulership is going to be retained.
Mark Levin’s idea may be the last opportunity to attempt to redress this tyranny without a complete bloodbath or subjugation.
But I have my doubts that will can happen without the Ruling Class inciting violence to stop it.
For those of you infected with Normalcy Bias, this country has ALREADY been fundamentally transformed. There is no way back by the means you are duped into thinking still apply to re-align government.
No, it’s just quick (and poor) writing on my part. My point was that Lincoln would NOT have been elected IF the Republicans hadn’t had a majority of state representatives in the House of Reps. The republicans had both a majority of states and a majority of representatives.
Since the default decision goes to the House of Representatives, if one candidate doesn’t get a majority of EC votes, then it was possible for Lincoln to win even if the EC had not voted as a mirror of the election. They did, so Lincoln won a majority in the EC.
Now, imagine a 3rd party like Perot, if Perot had won the election with 34% and each of the other candidates getting 33%. Perot wouldn’t have had a majority in the EC. It would have defaulted to the House of Representatives, and whichever party had the most state delegations, each of which gets one vote, would have won the election. Since the Reform Party would have had ZERO state delegations, then it is highly unlikely that Perot would have taken the presidency.
I hope this is more clear. I’m talking hypotheticals.
I had read it.
This is one of the reasons we set up America’s Party as what we call a “meta” party. In other words, we’ve gone beyond party. We make our associations and support candidates based solely on proven adherence to non-negotiable core American principles, not on mere party labels or voter registration.
The current system is rigged against us, and if we expect to have a chance to prevail, we’re going to have to either un-rig it, or work around it.
That’s what we’re doing.
If conservatives are too lazy to get involved on the local level and begin changing the Republican Party, what makes anyone think they will do the work to start a new party from scratch?
I was part of an effort in Michigan to fill precinct delegates in the Republican Party and begin the long task of changing it from within. It took many years but it finally paid off.
We have seen in America’s past parties (Whigs) come and go, so it is not without precedent we could see the end of the GOP, slowly replaced by something better.