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Vanity: I need insight into Social Justice
8/13/13 | me

Posted on 08/13/2013 1:29:27 PM PDT by spacejunkie2001

I need help/ammo. My kids go to a small Seventh Day Adventist school in Orlando. There's a new humanities teacher and the information that's in the pamphlet about him says the 'big subject' for 8th grade is "social justice".

I know what we conservatives consider SJ, and I agree with it but there are varying definitions on line. When I meet with this guy and the head of curriculum I want to be armed with as much accurate information as possible.

I'm trying not to be really pissed off that this is going on. I am arming my daughter with as much as possible but she's only 13.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: justice; radical; social; socialjustice
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1 posted on 08/13/2013 1:29:27 PM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: spacejunkie2001

Social Justice = application of law based a predetermined aggrieved citizen class


2 posted on 08/13/2013 1:31:47 PM PDT by abb
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To: spacejunkie2001

The “Social Justice” movement began in Oakland, CA over 20 years ago to force Unionization onto high tech companies in Silicon Valley.

It morphed into SEIU.


3 posted on 08/13/2013 1:33:56 PM PDT by Zathras
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To: spacejunkie2001

It’s a moving target designed to create work for for lawyers, activists, and politicians, all at taxpayer’s expense.


4 posted on 08/13/2013 1:35:44 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Social justice is the teaching that people are wealthy because they somehow took the wealth from others and made them poor.


5 posted on 08/13/2013 1:36:12 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: spacejunkie2001
"Social justice" is an oxymoron.

Justice implies adherence to the rule law rather than the rule of man. Adherence to the rule of law denies the subjective social values which those who advocate the social justice rely upon.

Social justice is an attempt to equalize outcomes, an attempt to redistribute wealth to the satisfaction of the author. As such it is essentially the rule of man rather than the rule law. The two concepts should never be attached to one another.

Your child should be told that the most efficient way to attain wealth for the most people is through capitalism. Your child should be told that the most democratic way to distribute goods and services is through the free market in which every consumer has 100% control of his vote every time he chooses to buy or not buy. A system of "social justice" is the least democratic means of distributing goods and services because it is not done by free agents operating in a free-market but by imposition of rules made not even by elected representatives but by unelected bureaucrats who are not responsible to the people they control.

Social justice is a social evil.


6 posted on 08/13/2013 1:37:00 PM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Recommend reading Thomas Sowell’s book, Cosmic Justice.

My inadequate summary — Liberal “Social Justice” is a blasphemous mimic of God’s justice — implemented through class grievance.


7 posted on 08/13/2013 1:37:51 PM PDT by mason-dixon (As Mason said to Dixon, you have to draw the line somewhere.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Social justice is something individuals can and should work toward.

It is not, nor should it ever be, an objective of government.


8 posted on 08/13/2013 1:37:58 PM PDT by Walrus (America died on November 6, 2012 --- RIP)
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To: spacejunkie2001

I’d start by going to the Seventh Day Adventist site and checking out their definition - http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/statements/main-stat52.html.


9 posted on 08/13/2013 1:38:40 PM PDT by ConstantSkeptic (Be careful about preconceptions)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Per Wikipedia’s introduction on Social Justice:

“Social justice is justice exercised within a society, particularly as it is applied to and among the various social classes of a society.”

“A socially just society is one based upon the principles of equality and solidarity; which pedagogy also maintains that a socially just society both understands and values human rights, as well as recognizing the dignity of every human being.[1][2] The Constitution of the International Labour Organization affirms that “universal and lasting peace can be established only if it is based upon social justice.”[3] Furthermore, the Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action treats social justice as a purpose of the human rights education.[4]”

“The term and modern concept of “social justice” was coined by Jesuit priest Luigi Taparelli in 1840 based on the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas and given further exposure in 1848 by Antonio Rosmini-Serbati.[1][2][5][6][7] The phrase has taken on a very controverted and variable meaning, depending on who is using it. The idea was elaborated by the moral theologian John A. Ryan, who initiated the concept of a living wage. Father Coughlin also used the term in his publications in the 1930s and the 1940s. It is a part of Catholic social teaching, the Protestants’ Social Gospel, and is one of the Four Pillars of the Green Party upheld by green parties worldwide. Social justice as a secular concept, distinct from religious teachings, emerged mainly in the late twentieth century, influenced primarily by philosopher John Rawls.[8]”

Notice something peculiar?

They never mention Communism, which is the single most important driver of this crap.

Social justice is modified by the word ‘Social’. Real, pure, unadulterated justice doesn’t need to be dressed up - it is what it is and should be - blind to any and all descriptive adjectives.


10 posted on 08/13/2013 1:38:53 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITIZEN: BORN IN THE USA OFCITIZEN PARENTS)
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To: spacejunkie2001

A person I know is a big lib and really into “social justice” via the Unitarian Universalist church. They just did a social justice mission trip .... whatever that is!

Here’s a link to the UUA website ... the “justice” part that might help you out. http://www.uua.org/justice/

Here’s the ‘headline’ quote they use for their page: “The prophetic liberal church is the church in which all members share the common responsibility to foresee the consequences of human behavior (both individual and institutional), with the intention of making history in place of being merely pushed around by it”. —James Luther Adams, “Taking Time Seriously,” in The Prophethood of All Believers.

Here are their “Partners & Justice Priorities” ....

Economic Justice
Environmental Justice
Immigration Justice
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer Equality
Multiculturalism and Racial Justice, including Ending the New Jim Crow
Reproductive Justice

Not picking on UUA, but I’ll bet by the time you read their site, you’ll have a good idea of what “social justice” is.


11 posted on 08/13/2013 1:39:32 PM PDT by MissMagnolia (You see, truth always resides wherever brave men still have ammunition. I pick truth. (John Ransom))
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To: nathanbedford

Big bump!


12 posted on 08/13/2013 1:39:48 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rats vs. GOPe = Same train, different speed.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

“Social justice” generally means socialism, or economic “justice” or redistributionist “justice”, or the notion that one’s individual christian duty to engage in charity to the less fortunate carries with it an obligation to change social structures (e.g., through the government), to address economic inequality.

I was educated in a catholic school, and social justice was taught as a junior level theology class. The philosophy came straight from religious left Catholic liberation theology, which holds that we have an individual moral duty to address inequality through government action.

I would teach my daughter that justice is just plain old justice, i.e., anglo-american law, which teaches that people should abide by their contracts, not initiate physical force against one another, and that people are equal under the law, but that equality of outcome is not guaranteed to anyone, nor should it be.


13 posted on 08/13/2013 1:39:50 PM PDT by altsehastiin
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To: spacejunkie2001

Aristotle identified two types of justice:

(1) Commutative justice.
(2) Distributive justice.

Commutative justice is about justice between individuals. How do you fix a harm to one person done by another person.

Distributive justice is about the proper apportionment of social benefits between individuals. It differs between different communities. In Athens, it meant that all citizens were entitled to vote and serve on juries and were obligated to render services to the state. In Sparta, it meant that there were two kings who got personal bodyguards and everyone had their own helot to hunt. It’s how a particular society divies up society’s pie. For Aristotle, there’s no right way to do this — it is just a descriptive term, and a given society can violate that society’s rules for pie cutting (for example, in Athens someone could try to deny citizens the right to be on a jury. That would violate Athens’s sense of distributive justice, but not Sparta’s since Sparta didn’t do juries).

Leftists try to confuse “social justice” with commutative justice. They also try to pretend that there is only one type of social justice. Their vision of social justice, however, is just a proposal for changing the rules of distributive justice within our community. They want to create a world in which certain groups “justly” deserve to have a bigger piece of the pie under new rules that they create.


14 posted on 08/13/2013 1:40:52 PM PDT by FateAmenableToChange (As as)
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To: Zathras

“Social Justice” is a fiction.

Challenge this libtard to show where in the US Constitution there are the words “Social Justice.”

For that matter, ask where it is codified into any law anywhere.


15 posted on 08/13/2013 1:41:38 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Task" is a noun. "Ask" is a verb. "Disconnect" is a noun. "Data" is a plural-not collective-noun.)
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To: spacejunkie2001
Read this and have her read it too:

16 posted on 08/13/2013 1:43:05 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: spacejunkie2001

All justice is social. What is the meaning of justice for a man on a desert island?

Since all justice is social, what of significance is added by using the modifier?

The answer is that “social justice” is not a type of “justice” at all. The term “social justice” has nothing to do with justice but is an entirely new thing that might more accurately be called “social engineering” in the cause of a socialist utopia. It is the concept that since the problems of the world are caused mostly and mainly by the shortcomings of others, those problems could be solved by really smart people if they could only regulate and control the behavior of others.

One of the ways this can be done is by appealing to the abstraction of “social justice,’ fooling the gullible into thinking that this is really justice that is being talked about. Let’s be clear, it is not, it is the control of individual behavior in the furtherance of a political agenda.

Normally it will be couched in an appeal to “fairness”. This fairness appeal will always be applied to one mascot group or another; racial, gender, sexual preference based, you name it; and the behavior to be changed to favor the group will always be individual behavior.

“Social justice” always involves an elevation of the group over the individual and the abstract over the real.

Sorry that these thoughts are not referenced, they are just my own - Highly influenced by Tom Sowell..

I must therefore direct you to Tom Sowell’s “The Quest for Cosmic Justice” for a really thorough discussion of the subject.


17 posted on 08/13/2013 1:43:58 PM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: mason-dixon

a blasphemous mimic of God’s justice - great way to put it.

Indeed, “liberalism” is simply Humanism in the political spectrum. It’s the belief that man is the sum of all existence and knowledge, and that “elite” humans are somehow capable of accomplishing what only God can.


18 posted on 08/13/2013 1:44:36 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: spacejunkie2001

“You got it. I want it.”

How’s that?


19 posted on 08/13/2013 1:45:34 PM PDT by freerepublicchat
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To: All

I REALLY appreciate all the info. Hopefully it keeps rolling in. I’ll be back soon to continue reviewing but already I have good ammo.


20 posted on 08/13/2013 1:45:37 PM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: freerepublicchat

Good summation, but it probably could use some expansion.


21 posted on 08/13/2013 1:46:25 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Check out Thomas Sowell who says that it means whatever the speaker wants it to mean at the moment. Alice in Wonderland. A euphemism like “choice” and “gay”. Would anyone be against “social justice” or against those two others?


22 posted on 08/13/2013 1:46:49 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: spacejunkie2001

social justice= license to steal money from some people and give it to others.


23 posted on 08/13/2013 1:49:01 PM PDT by driftless2
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To: spacejunkie2001

They espouse equality of outcome not equality of opportunity. Pure redistribution theory at play.


24 posted on 08/13/2013 1:50:24 PM PDT by shankbear (The tree of Liberty appears to be perishing because there are few patriots willing to refresh it.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

You could cover two areas here: what the movement called SJ has done, and what it ideally (or more ideally) would be in a Christian worldview. 2DA are pretty good with the gospel on the main though having some debatable peculiarities, and keeping into areas that are common to most Christian communions would probably be helpful.


25 posted on 08/13/2013 1:52:40 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and mean it. See my page.)
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To: MrB

I see “social justice” as just another nebulous catch-all phrase coined by marxist vermin that sounds all lofty and sophisticated, but means whatever might be politically expedient at the time, like pushing people into ovens for example.


26 posted on 08/13/2013 1:52:48 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: John Valentine

That’s the best and most understandable definition I have read. Thanks for sharing.


27 posted on 08/13/2013 1:52:52 PM PDT by Red Boots
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To: spacejunkie2001

28 posted on 08/13/2013 1:57:37 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: altsehastiin
The philosophy came straight from religious left Catholic liberation theology, which holds that we have an individual moral duty to address inequality through government action.

I took a class given by some Catholic sisters, and we covered liberation theology, but it was presented in a vague way, which I didn't really understand. Perhaps because the rest of the people were Catholic-school educated and they all understood the same buzzwords that were used, but which weren't understandable to me.

I told the sisters that it sounded a lot like communism, which went over not-so-well.

29 posted on 08/13/2013 1:58:25 PM PDT by Red Boots
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To: John Valentine

Great summary! Tom Sowell dun good teachin yoo! He is an American treasure, may he live to be 100!


30 posted on 08/13/2013 1:59:05 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Once you accept these euphemisms like “social justice”, “gay”, “choice”, you have lost the debate by legitimizing them.


31 posted on 08/13/2013 2:00:01 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Social Justice is one of those made up terms that mean whatever the speaker or writer wants it to mean.

“Either ‘social justice’ has the same meaning as ‘justice’ – or not. If so – why use the additional word ‘social?’ We lose time, we destroy trees to obtain paper necessary to print this word. If not, if ‘social justice’ means something different from ‘justice’ – then ‘something different from justice’ is by definition ‘injustice’” Janusz Korwin-Mikke

My observation is that social justice really does mean injustice because it always seems to involve wealth transference from the makers to the takers in the name of equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity or equality before the law.

Instead it seems to be about special privileges for special classes in reparation for some alleged social wrong or disadvantage.

Really it’s just an opportunity for flim flammers and bureaucratic middlemen to make a good living skimming cream from the rich while trickling the whey to the poor.


32 posted on 08/13/2013 2:00:25 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with brute force, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: John Valentine

Sparks some thoughts.

As a Christian I disagree that there could not be justice for a man on a desert island. That man would continue to obey God, ideally, until rescued or until gone to heaven. And if (when) he sinned, he would confess it to God and be forgiven by a God who is “faithful and JUST” to forgive his sins.

But not only the governed but also the governors have to be considered here. “Social justice” might mean ideas that society has voted for. Or it might mean ideas of how people are supposed to be treated by society. Or both.


33 posted on 08/13/2013 2:01:35 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and mean it. See my page.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Social Justice = spreading your hard earned wealth around to just about anybody and everybody else.


34 posted on 08/13/2013 2:01:46 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

We need social truth not justice.

Justice is subjective truth is not.


35 posted on 08/13/2013 2:01:49 PM PDT by NoLibZone (The reason we are where we are today is the belief that posting on a website will fix the nation.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

You might ask the teacher to clarify what they mean by “social justice”, just to make sure it’s what it sounds like.


36 posted on 08/13/2013 2:04:04 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Here’s how to check him out really quick:

Ask him if the fact that our government discriminates against unborn babies by refusing them the equal protection of the laws is an example of a social injustice.


37 posted on 08/13/2013 2:04:30 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: spacejunkie2001
Works of Social action are challenging owing to difficulties in correctly identifying the true underlying causes of injustice. Changing the social structure on the basis of a false understanding (or, incomplete understanding) of cause and effect can make the situation worse. Unintended consequences associated with a change in social structure could create greater injustices, even if it corrects the targeted injustice (e.g. being forced to sit in the back of the bus).

The Hebrew tradition, the deep taproot of our movement illuminated further by the life of Jesus, helps us define the words peace and justice. The prophets warned the leaders that they were NOT following the laws of Moses. If the leaders did not repent, there were consequences, mainly loss of God's Blessings.  The leaders made the choice.

Peace

Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.—Psalm 34:15

The Hebrew word for peace is shalom. Shalom is rich in meaning. It is a comprehensive concept that means: wholeness, peace, joy,
 freedom, reconciliation, community,
 harmony of all creation--both physical and spiritual,
 righteousness, truth, justice, communication,
 humanity.

Shalom is holistic and embraces all persons and all creation in reconciliation and harmony. 

When Jesus taught about peace, he was using the word shalom in all its richness.  Jesus, when teaching the Beatitudes, really said, "Blessed are the shalom-makers." The New Testament was written in Greek and eirene was the word used to translate shalom.  


 Justice

Justice, justice alone shall you pursue, ...—Deuteronomy 16:20

One word for justice in Hebrew is  zedakah. The concept of justice in Judaism is different from Greek-Western views of this concept.  The emphasis is not on "retribution" (punishment) or "distribution" (fair shares for all).  It is more what human living should be like.  That is why the word zedakah is not only translated into English as justice but also as righteousness, which means living a just life personally.  

Also "justice" (zedakah) is consistently paired with "mercy" or "grace" (hesed) in the Hebrew scriptures.  Jesus put them together in the Beatitudes:

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,*for they will be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.--Matthew 5:6-7

Peace and Justice can be achieved by works of mercy and/or works of social action, as described in a paper by Schneider dated 8/7/07. 

What is Catholic Social Teaching and Incorporating the Teaching into the Life of the Parish. Works of Mercy (as exemplified by Mother Theresa)

1. Are concerned with the present symptoms of injustice.

2. Focus on individual needs

3. Look for immediate solutions

4.Provide direct service: with temporary results

5.Involves haves sharing with have-nots

6.Requires no change in social structure

7.Calms things down

Works of Social Action (as exemplified by ???)

1. Are concerned with the underlying causes of injustice.

2. Focus on changing social structures

3. Look for long-term solutions

4. Provide indirect help that is aimed at permanent change

5. Involves haves and have-nots working together

6. Requires working toward changes in the social structures

7.Stirs things up

38 posted on 08/13/2013 2:04:56 PM PDT by olezip (Time obliterates the fictions of opinion and confirms the decisions of nature. ~ Cicero)
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To: spacejunkie2001

“Social Justice” is the belief espoused by some on the Left that “God wants us to play Robin Hood”.


39 posted on 08/13/2013 2:07:55 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: spacejunkie2001

“Social justice” is a euphemism for revenge.


40 posted on 08/13/2013 2:08:32 PM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: spacejunkie2001

There is a wide difference between the justice that is rooted in God’s word, which he has given us for a blueprint to a civil society, and told us to work within, and the social gospel of social justice, which is man made to avoid God’s ways, and which actually erodes the foundations of faith and justice.

Social Justice is a heavily politicized term and a mechanism for progressives to use to erode the US Constitution and the Bible.

Ask the teacher how he views the differences between Dr. Marin Luther King, Jr and Malcom X.

The Lord has given us the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s as a rich tapestry of examples of right and wrong, just and unjust.


41 posted on 08/13/2013 2:08:59 PM PDT by Truth2012
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To: spacejunkie2001

My take: Social justice is all about equality of outcome regardless of effort. You should have just as much “chance” of success whether you work and sacrifice for it or not. But here’s Wiki’s answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice


42 posted on 08/13/2013 2:09:46 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: spacejunkie2001

JOSEPH was sold by his brothers, THAT wasn’t very JUST, it was a violation of Moral Law. Then the wife of his slave holder, accused him of trying to force her to have sex. She lied. That was NOT just, socially, against the Moral Code. Then they put him in jail, and his friends forgot about him. But look, the Lord was always with him. So people who taunt Social Justice as the TOP priority of the land, people who are being taken advantage of....the Judge of the WHOLE Earth sees and knows. When it is time, he’ll defend them. Always. Sometimes you do well by learning to serve, learning from the people you are ENSLAVED unto. They may trust you, and put you in charge of their whole household. I’d take my chances going before the Celestial Judge and asking for HIS Justice, than trying to make my case made in a courthouse on Earth. The outcome of a lot of court cases by humans, is that this too is UNJUST.


43 posted on 08/13/2013 2:11:10 PM PDT by rovenstinez
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To: spacejunkie2001

Here is a layman’s take and this template can be applied to most of the control freaks’ (i.e. left’s) philosophy:

Social justice assumes there is a social injustice that need to be corrected.

What is the solution to this “problem”?

More state control.

Except for sex and drugs because it is a Brave New World.


44 posted on 08/13/2013 2:11:12 PM PDT by joshua c (Please dont feed the liberals)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
“Social Justice” is the belief espoused by some on the Left that “God wants us to play Robin Hood”.

Most on the left espouse the belief that "we ARE gods".

45 posted on 08/13/2013 2:11:56 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Hate on Whitey 101.


46 posted on 08/13/2013 2:14:37 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: SpaceBar

Yeah, the left’s wet dream is to use the power of the state to exterminate those that disagree with them,

and they’d feel self-righteous in doing it.


47 posted on 08/13/2013 2:14:56 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Social Justice is what you get when you take regular justice and then replace Jesus with Karl Marx.


48 posted on 08/13/2013 2:18:58 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Social Justice: If you are white you are wrong. If you are a white male, you are just evil.


49 posted on 08/13/2013 2:24:09 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: spacejunkie2001

Do some reading of the constitution. it says the pursuit of happiness (or opportunity). We all are equal before the law and have the same opportunity. The uniqueness of the USA has been our ability to move up and down the social ladder.

When I was at the Rushmore monument a few years ago this has been perverted into the “pursuit of social justice” which means the results are all the same and that is the goal. It means that no one moves up and down also.


50 posted on 08/13/2013 2:27:04 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple
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