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US Car Makers Crank Out Cars Around the Clock; Who is Buying the Cars?
Townhall.com ^ | August 18, 2013 | Mike Shedlock

Posted on 08/18/2013 10:32:38 AM PDT by Kaslin

US car makers are cranking out cars three shifts a day. The goal is to run plants around the clock, 365 days a year, even eliminating breaks.

Please consider Open All Night: America's Car Factories.

Nearly 40% of car factories in North America now operate on work schedules that push production well past 80 hours a week, compared with 11% in 2008, said Ron Harbour, a senior partner with the Oliver Wyman Inc. management consulting firm.

"There has never been a time in the U.S. industry that we've had this high a level of capacity utilization," he said.

But fresh from a near-death experience during the recession, auto makers are reluctant to put money into bricks, mortar and machinery that could become a drag on profits if car sales fall. Volkswagen new $1 billion Chattanooga, Tenn., factory recently cut 500 workers after sales of its new Passat sedan swooned.

Through a series of agreements negotiated with the United Auto Workers union, the Detroit Three now can schedule work at night and on weekends without paying as much in overtime as they would have in the past. Adding a third shift, as many plants have done, also reduces overtime. Overtime pay also starts after 40 hours a week, not after eight hours a day as in the past. On top of those savings, a newly hired Big Three factory worker now earns about $15 an hour versus $28 an hour for veteran workers, under postrecession labor pacts.

Toledo factory managers recently changed break schedules to squeeze out even more production. Instead of shutting down the assembly line eight times a day for routine breaks, they have hired extra workers to fill in during breaks, so the line doesn't stop running.

GM is running six of its U.S. plants through the night on three-shift schedules. Last year, GM produced 3.24 million vehicles in North America compared with 4.52 million in 2007—when it had five more assembly factories.

Ford has gone a step further, adding a fourth crew of workers at some engine and transmission plants to keep those factories running 152 hours out of the 168 hours in a week.

The techniques have helped expand production by 600,000 vehicles during the past 15 months—the equivalent of about three assembly plants, says James Tetreault, Ford's vice president of North America manufacturing. Ford doesn't plan to build a new North American assembly plant, he says.

"In an ideal world, we'd like all our plants to run around the clock, 365 days a year," says Mr. Tetreault. "That would be a financial dream. But we don't know how to do that yet."
Who is Buying Cars?

So who is buying new cars? It's not millennials struggling to find a job, loaded up in student debt and delaying family formation.

The Wall Street Journal reports Who's Buying 'Youth' Cars? Seniors.
In recent years, auto makers have developed a bevy of pint-size models like the Chevy Sonic, Fiat, Ford Fiesta and Kia Soul, and promoted them using social-media, music festival sponsorships, and in some cases, daredevil stunts. To hype the new Chevy Sonic, General Motors Co. filmed the subcompact parachuting out of a plane for an online campaign aimed squarely at 18-to-30-year-olds.

But the largest customers for these cars, about 42% of buyers this year through May, are closer to retirement age, according to registration data compiled by car-shopping website Edmunds.com. The proportion is up from just 29% five years ago.

Meantime, the percentage of 18- to 34-year-olds buying new subcompact cars fell to 12% through May, down from 17% in 2008, according to registration data.

Of course, 50 and 60-somethings are some of the biggest buyers of all cars.

"The baby boomer generation is the largest cohort in the marketplace," Kia's Mr. Sprague said. "Just by virtue of their numbers being so large, we'll continue to see them skew the data for a long time."

Last year, buyers 55 and older accounted for more than 40% of all new car sales, up from 33% in 2008 while buyers between the ages of 18 and 34 represented only 12% of new-car purchases. And that is down from 14% five years ago, according to Edmunds.com.

Auto makers' big prize is the "Millennial Generation"—that group of consumers in their 20s and 30s whose numbers could rival the postwar baby boom that has dominated the auto market for decades.
Millennial Generation "Big Prize"

As more and more seniors stay employed longer (because they have to),  the demand for cars has kept pace. I keep wondering how long that can last. The average age of those working at fast-food restaurants is telling.

There is no pent-up demand that I can see, at least in the age group of those buying.

Auto makers are targeting the big prize, the millennial generation, and curiously even youth cars are not going to the youth. And I do not think they will.

The generation of millennials is nowhere near as big as the boomers, and as a class, the millennials are struggling in low-pay jobs (if they can find work at all), and burdened down in student debt to boot.

And look at the pay differential of the car makers: $15 an hour for new workers versus $28 an hour for veteran workers.

Most importantly, a secular shift in attitudes towards cars and debt have changed. Millennials are not boomers nor do they have boomer attitudes. Carmakers should enjoy the boom while it lasts. The "big prize" is not around the corner.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: gm
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 08/18/2013 10:32:38 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Hey they’re making things in America.

I’m all for it.

Bought one myself.


2 posted on 08/18/2013 10:35:38 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Kaslin
Instead of shutting down the assembly line eight times a day for routine breaks, they have hired extra workers to fill in during breaks, so the line doesn't stop running.

That must be a logistical and training nightmare. The breaks all have to be staggered and can't occur at the same time. The people filling in during breaks have to be trained in lots of different assembly tasks. As for staggering breaks, workers probably don't want to start a shift and have to take a ten minute break after working for twenty minutes, then work 3-1/2 hours until lunch. Maybe they are taking the managers, office workers, designers, etc and putting them on the line during the breaks?

3 posted on 08/18/2013 10:37:30 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Kaslin

There’s a lot of cars out there - I’m getting stuck in traffic all the time.


4 posted on 08/18/2013 10:38:49 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: Kaslin

There’s a lot of cars out there - I’m getting stuck in traffic all the time.


5 posted on 08/18/2013 10:38:55 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

>>That must be a logistical and training nightmare. The breaks all have to be staggered and can’t occur at the same time.

I’ve worked in five factories in my career as an industrial electrician. All of them ran 24/7 and none of them stopped the production line for breaks. They all keep some extra people on a production crew who do light maintenance (oiling and wiping type of stuff and assisting the mechanics) and once break time hits, they start filling in on the line for break and meal relief. This isn’t anything new.


6 posted on 08/18/2013 10:43:25 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Kaslin

I wonder how they are doing maintenance? At some point quality will suffer.


7 posted on 08/18/2013 10:46:16 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("When there is no penalty for failure, failures proliferate." George F. Will)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
My car buying history has always been to pay cash or pay them off as quickly as possible. If the car is used I go through it to be sure everything is in good shape, drive it carefully, and maintain it well. Last new car I bought was in 1999, and am still driving it with over 220k on it. Last used one I bought (in 2008) was a 1998 Merc Grand Marqis with 49k for $7k. Still driving it and have almost 140k on it, and going strong.

Drove by a dealership yesterday and saw a Crown Vic up for $7.5k that looked like it had just come off the show room floor (maybe a 2009). Sorry folks, not interested in a $35k SUV when I can buy something as good (for me) for 20% of the cost and drive it for many years and many miles with no payments.

I may be frugal, but I'm not cheap...

8 posted on 08/18/2013 10:47:21 AM PDT by Dubh_Ghlase (Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee.)
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To: SamAdams76
There’s a lot of cars out there - I’m getting stuck in traffic all the time.

In Chicago it's the opposite. Since Obozo's emaculation the level of traffic congestion has dropped noticeably. And it ain't because of any new roads. I guess that mass under-employment has its upside to those left in the workforce.

9 posted on 08/18/2013 10:48:52 AM PDT by RugerMini14
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To: Kaslin
US Car Makers Crank Out Cars Around the Clock; Who is Buying the Cars?
-
Wall Sreet Journal Article
-
The Wall Street Journal
July 1, 2013
By CHRISTINA ROGERS and NEAL E. BOUDETTE
MARYSVILLE, Ohio—The U.S. auto industry, in tatters just four years ago,
is emerging as an export powerhouse, driven by favorable exchange rates
and labor costs in a trend experts say could drive business for many years.

In a sign of the turnaround, Honda Motor Co, once a big importer of Japanese-made cars,
says it expects to export more vehicles from North America
with nearly all of them coming from its U.S. factories
than it brings in from Japan by the end of 2014.

Last year, more than one million cars and light trucks were exported
from U.S. auto plants, the highest recorded and a more than threefold rise from 2003
according to the U.S. International Trade Administration.

More competitive labor costs and restructurings that closed unproductive factories
have made American auto plants tougher competitors in the global market.
Some are also looking at U.S. production as a way to serve booming emerging markets.

By the end of 2014, Chrysler hopes to export as many as 500,000 vehicles a year
to markets outside of North America,
more than doubling the 210,000 it sent abroad in 2012.
The vast majority of Chrysler's exports come from U.S. factories.
10 posted on 08/18/2013 10:50:20 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
What car did you buy yourself?

I wished I could by a new car for myself, one that is easier for my old bones to get in and out of, but I don't want to get stuck with car payments at my age

11 posted on 08/18/2013 10:50:35 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Bryanw92

It’s funny, I worked in dozens of utility and industrial power plants in my early career, and they never shut them down either. I never once thought who filled in during breaks and lunch. I know lots of operators would eat lunch in the control room.


12 posted on 08/18/2013 10:50:58 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Dubh_Ghlase

Well I’ve “recently” taken to buying new. So far 110,000 miles on two cars, with zero issues.

And American as well.

So far I’ve real happy with that decision.


13 posted on 08/18/2013 10:51:55 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Kaslin

Well I don’t want to get too specific.

Not a GM car though. :D


14 posted on 08/18/2013 10:53:39 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Kaslin
"Who is Buying the Cars?"

People receiving government incomes and incomes from businesses that serve many government customers.


15 posted on 08/18/2013 10:55:25 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Many of those vehicles mentioned are TRUCKS. Trucks for the oil boom in Texas, Pennsylvania and North Dakota. Contractors buy trucks. And individuals buy trucks here in the vast flyover, many of those trucks are the family car, something north-easterners have no understanding or tolerance for.


16 posted on 08/18/2013 10:56:26 AM PDT by CARTOUCHE (Laredo, welcome to the 3rd world and leave your English at MM 13)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Kaslin

Strange thing about Ford. Dealer where i live gets one yr old cars and sells them at good price (for dealer) with all the fixings of a new car. Sell like hotcakes. I was told these are cars that are used by big companies for yr, then given back to Ford.

Seniors buying a lot of new cars here. Also, cars of today are nothing but plastic. Sorry cars. But they are good on gas


18 posted on 08/18/2013 10:59:34 AM PDT by ncpatriot
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To: RugerMini14

UAW backs liberals like Obama who in turn impose anti-American laws (like Obamacare). So, I’m not sure if buying “American” is really all that American after all. Seems to me Red America buys a higher percentage of domestic vehicles than what is sold in blue state/blue democrat liberal areas, and then the UAW gets that money and uses it against you. NICE!!! Let them sell their vehicles to the liberals. I’m out. If they want to engage in national politics like that then they should suffer the economic consequences, just like I will when Obamacare is imposed.
UAW go sell your cars to the liberals who won’t buy them. Maybe you can convince the the Liberals to buy your cars after you tell them you helped get their President, and every other Liberal Senator and Congressmen elected. See if that will help them switch from Honda to you.
In the mean time, Red America- Wake up and stop destroying yourself, and sending your hard earned money to being used against you.


19 posted on 08/18/2013 11:04:01 AM PDT by inchworm
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
I know lots of operators would eat lunch in the control room.

I think I saw Homer Simpson do that once....spilled his coffee into the control board.

20 posted on 08/18/2013 11:04:10 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (It wasn't the Rodeo Clown's act, it was the crowd reaction they could't take.)
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To: inchworm

I disagree.

Buy American.


21 posted on 08/18/2013 11:06:24 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Kaslin
Toledo factory managers recently changed break schedules to squeeze out even more production. Instead of shutting down the assembly line eight times a day for routine breaks, they have hired extra workers to fill in during breaks, so the line doesn't stop running.

So the UAW gets hourly breaks? I could see a lunch break and maybe two short 15-20 minute coffee breaks.

22 posted on 08/18/2013 11:06:33 AM PDT by matt04
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To: Kaslin

Who is buying the cars? We are, silly. Or at least we will be when those folks who bought cars on credit while holding minimum wage jobs go ahead and default.

See “channel stuffing.”


23 posted on 08/18/2013 11:21:43 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: ncpatriot

Yes, those cars are fleet cars, most of them are from rental car companies.


24 posted on 08/18/2013 11:24:54 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: matt04

then you are buying liberalism.


25 posted on 08/18/2013 11:27:59 AM PDT by inchworm
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
"I work. Every day. And I was a buyer of an American car.

Don’t stereotype please.
"

That's where most of the money is, and that's why both political parties are working for the same constituent groups. As for hard work, many are working hard at preventing personal uses of private property, surveillance of law-abiding citizens, collecting "impact fees," behavioral conditioning to instill social pathologies and preventing small production. Granted, there are many volunteers, too--pensioners on the lookout for any perceived flaws in the personal effects of their neighbors.


26 posted on 08/18/2013 11:29:47 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Kaslin

Apparently nearly everyone in my trailer park (except for me). Even the illegals are buying cars with Bernanke funny money.


27 posted on 08/18/2013 11:33:05 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Kaslin
GM is running six of its U.S. plants through the night on three-shift schedules. Last year, GM produced 3.24 million vehicles in North America compared with 4.52 million in 2007—when it had five more assembly factories.

Gee wow. GM is producing less cars with less assembly factories. Is this supposed to be a good thing?

Why all the hype??

28 posted on 08/18/2013 11:35:05 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
"I work. Every day. And I was a buyer of an American car.

Don’t stereotype please.
"

Sorry that you took it personally, as my comment was not directed at any one person. Most of the people buying new cars receive incomes from government (examples: land use planners, teachers, social workers, pensioners) or businesses that rely heavily on government debt/revenues (restaurants, convenience stores, others).

That's where most of the money is, and that's why both political parties are working for the same constituent groups. As for hard work, many are working hard at preventing personal uses of private property, surveillance of law-abiding citizens, collecting "impact fees," behavioral conditioning to instill social pathologies and preventing small production. Granted, there are many volunteers, too--pensioners on the lookout for any perceived flaws in the personal effects of their neighbors.


29 posted on 08/18/2013 11:35:16 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: familyop

I’m just saying.

The GOP has become almost anti-American in its approach to US jobs.

I have a big problem with that, and so do a lot of voters I believe.

I think the GOP is in the midst of committing suicide via converting its own voters, to Democrats. Not that I believe the GOP principles are driving people away - I think the GOP principles are far and away superior to anything the democrats are standing for.

But STOP EXPORTING JOBS.

Bring back US jobs now.

I’m completely serious.

Stop sending US jobs to other countries. And BUY AMERICAN.

Stop sending US jobs abroad.

That is killing the GOP.


30 posted on 08/18/2013 11:36:52 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I agree with every word in your comment #30. There might be more to the problem, though. As I’ve said so many times before, I live in a very sparsely populated county. The acreages of lots are large. There are no people within eyesight of here, yet there’s a county zoning ordinance (called a “law” here) against any new, small manufacturing business regardless of how small. Repair work is also illegal. This is not the only rural county with such a zoning ordinance.

Sorry about the repeat of my comment earlier. Some comments were posting with only part of the text that I typed in. First time I’ve seen that here.


31 posted on 08/18/2013 11:47:10 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: familyop

I just want the GOP to be for American jobs.

Hire Americans. Build stuff in America.

Buy American. I’m series. China now exports more than America. And is growing.


32 posted on 08/18/2013 11:47:16 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
I disagree.

Buy American.

I disagree.

Buy non-UAW.

I haven't bought a UAW built vehicle since the '90's and I will never do so again.

The UAW is the enemy of everything I value.

33 posted on 08/18/2013 11:58:38 AM PDT by RugerMini14
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To: RugerMini14

The UAW is not a friend of mine.

Unfortunately we have sold off far too much of America.

I have decided it is more important to be for American manufacturing, than it is to oppose the UAW.

They are a part of America.

They are not the biggest problem now.

However if you’re going to oppose the UAW, then I hope you will also likewise oppose all goods, made by any employee who is likewise, lacking a specific individual set of rights.

Which eliminates quite a lot of what you buy every day.

Including every single thing bought, which is made in China.

Are you opposed to anything made in China?


34 posted on 08/18/2013 12:05:07 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Kaslin

Shedlock is an idiot; a fellow traveler.

UAW cvontracts are tied to production level not sales levels.

No mater the economy, to satisfy the contract, GM/Ford/Xysler are ^^contractually obligated^^ to produce ‘x-amount’ of vehicles in a contract year to keep UAW members employed. (Failure Business Model).

Sales be damned, it is all about keeping the slackers employed and the union-dues coming in!

Here’s a trick, call your local GM dealer and ask them if they can negotiate on a new, ^2011^ Chevy TrailBlazer with 4WD and a factory installed tow-hitch...Oh, thay can find one and they WILL NEGOTIATE to sell it to you.


35 posted on 08/18/2013 12:06:39 PM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: RugerMini14
Just glad people realize that about the UAW and I'm not the only one.
As for the GOP, what's killing them is signing their names to laws that add thousands of pages to the bureaucracy to make it harder for American jobs to exist. And when they aren't adding to it they fail to take away from it when they have an opportunity like defunding Obamacare (listening John McStain?). Unless the GOP becomes more "tea partyized" it will continue to stand for nothing but soft liberalism.
36 posted on 08/18/2013 12:11:11 PM PDT by inchworm
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To: Kaslin

Here’s a theory.

The way CAFE works - they have to pump out so many high mpg cars to allow them to sell the vehicles they really want to sell and the public really wants to buy - trucks, suv’s, luxury cars etc.

Maybe they’re pumping out all sorts of high mpg cars which they sell at a wash or even at a slight loss in fleet sales to allow them to sell enough trucks, suvs and luxury cars where the profits are really made.

Just a thought. But, if true, would be yet another example where gubermint “environmental policies” reinforce the law of unintended consequences. And, as others have pointed out, it would keep the unions happy as well.


37 posted on 08/18/2013 12:12:07 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
However if you’re going to oppose the UAW, then I hope you will also likewise oppose all goods, made by any employee who is likewise, lacking a specific individual set of rights.

The ChiCom workers are not actively undermining my rights and liberties as an American. A portion of every dollar that I would spend on a UAW car goes to an organization which seeks to deprive me of my rights and liberties.

I'd buy a car built by slave Muzzie labor in a ChiCom factory in Pakistan before I would buy a UAW car. I don't have the luxury of worrying about foreign threats when the domestic ones are so virulent.

(And the Japanese and Germans make excellent cars anyway.)

38 posted on 08/18/2013 12:19:48 PM PDT by RugerMini14
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

If the UAW employees don’t want that Liberal crap, then their membership needs to take a stand and direct what their union is promoting, and who their union is promoting in the latest Liberal politics. The UAW has done it over and over and over and over again. Too late now. They’ve lost me. An I did put my money where my mouth. I was a bit apprehensive to sign the dotted line. Then my wife whispered to me. “Remember Obamacare”? I grabbed the pen and signed the contract. I feel better now than I would have had I purchased the UAW car all while knowing what they’ve done, and continue to do.


39 posted on 08/18/2013 12:19:51 PM PDT by inchworm
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To: RugerMini14

We completely disagree on this then.

Buy American.

:D


40 posted on 08/18/2013 12:22:15 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: inchworm

Again Red America wake up. You are fueling the UAW, yet you think you look all-American values with car/ truck of yours enjoying your country life, all while that county is being taken away from you. Go figure. Sounds typical GOP to me.


41 posted on 08/18/2013 12:28:12 PM PDT by inchworm
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

No problem, I was just curious and didn’t think you did


42 posted on 08/18/2013 12:28:37 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

BUY NON-LIBERAL AMERICAN. LET THE LIBERALS SUPPORT THEMSELVES (IN DETROIT).


43 posted on 08/18/2013 12:30:10 PM PDT by inchworm
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To: ncpatriot

The reason why they are good on gas is because they are lighter


44 posted on 08/18/2013 12:32:23 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: RugerMini14

Indeed...My household will not consider another UAW product.


45 posted on 08/18/2013 12:44:57 PM PDT by Kaosinla (The More the Plans Fail. The More the Planners Plan.)
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To: Kaslin

Best deal out there:

Ram 1500 with hemi 5.7. Race car engine, outstanding handling, and excellent cab features. All starting at 22K.


46 posted on 08/18/2013 1:28:24 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: 3Fingas

Ram 1500 , hemi 5.7 is a good motor , current bodystyle looks good too , the transmission they use SUCKS ... MoPar single handedly keeps tranny shops in business. “Outstanding Handling” ,, maybe our definitions differ ,, I see handling as good road feel and getting around a corner real quick with good balance... you NEVER get good balance in a truck because of the wide variance between loaded and unloaded rear weight ,, maybe your definition just means “plows ahead straight and true with minimal driver input” ,, and then don’t get me started on MoPar interiors ,,, the plastic is so bad that on their NEW Jeep products the interior door panels crack apart leaving the door handles flopping around http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3le7u3scEfs ... I’m in Florida , we have SUN here ,, when was the last time you saw a Dodge that didn’t have a full length crack in the dash?


47 posted on 08/18/2013 1:59:47 PM PDT by Neidermeyer (I used to be disgusted , now I try to be amused.)
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To: Neidermeyer

Not a fan?

Handling, well it is a truck. But having spent all week test driving Ford, GMC, Tundra, and the Ram. The RAM wins in my book. I especially loved the light touch steering, the excellent throttle response, and the smooth ride.

The interior: has all the features you could want. Nice stereo, instruments simple and easy to understand, cup holders galore, various trays, etc. Nice storage areas in the center console and behind the seats of the single cab.

As for the transmission, I don’t know enough about that. My brother has a 1500 with 100,000 miles and no problems. I suppose you can find others who have a different experience. I guess I will find out for myself because I think I am going to buy one in the near future.

Compared to the others I looked at, RAM seems to be a better value. Ford and GMC were several thousand dollars more for similar options. The Tundra, don’t get me going there, they were even more pricey then Ford and GMC.


48 posted on 08/18/2013 2:30:30 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Kaslin

I don’t get it. I think I read the to other day that the average age of cars on the road is ELEVEN years? Our are 7, 9 and 4 or 5, can’t remember which.

No need or desire to replace any of them for the foreseeable future ‘cept I want to retool before all the monitoring and fuel economy rot kick in. It won’t be with GM or Chrysler though. That is a certainty.


49 posted on 08/18/2013 5:14:03 PM PDT by Sequoyah101
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To: Kaslin

I bought what might be my last car or second to last car. Expected to go 3 to 400K and gas milage is good.


50 posted on 08/18/2013 5:17:28 PM PDT by Chickensoup (200 million unarmed " people killed in the 20th century by Leftist Totalitarian Fascists)
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