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How Obama has abused the Patriot Act
LA Times ^ | Aug 19, 2013 | By Jim Sensenbrenner

Posted on 08/19/2013 11:29:34 AM PDT by Jim Robinson

On Aug. 9, the Obama administration released a previously secret legal interpretation of the Patriot Act that it used to justify the bulk collection of every American's phone records. The strained reasoning in the 22-page memo won't survive long in public light, which is itself one of the strongest arguments for transparency in government. As the late Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis wrote, "Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants."

Recent revelations by the Washington Post emphasize the need for greater transparency. The National Security Agency failed to report privacy violations that are serious infringements of constitutional rights. Beyond these blatant violations, the foundation of the programs is itself illegal.

Section 215 of the Patriot Act authorizes the collection of certain business records — in this case, phone records — when there are reasonable grounds to believe that the records are relevant to an authorized investigation into international terrorism. The key legal term is "relevance."

Under this relevance standard, the administration has collected the details of every call made by every American, even though the overwhelming majority of these calls have nothing to do with terrorism. Since first learning of the program this spring, I have been a vocal critic of such dragnet collection as a gross invasion of privacy and a violation of Section 215.

The administration's memo begins by acknowledging that its interpretation of the statute is at odds with the plain meaning of "relevance." It argues there is a "particularized legal meaning" of relevance, but it ultimately concedes that it fails to meet this standard as well.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: benghazi; bhofascism; criminalpresident; democrats; fastandfurious; govtabuse; highcrimes; impeachnow; irs; latimes; nsa; nsaleaks; nsascandal; obama; obamansa; patriotact; spying; surveillancestate; tyranny
"The White House's justification for collecting Americans' phone data doesn't stand up to the light of day."
1 posted on 08/19/2013 11:29:34 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson
"The White House's justification for collecting
Americans' phone data doesn't stand up to the light of day.
"
... except when viewed through the lens of Obama's allegiance.


2 posted on 08/19/2013 11:32:25 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Jim Robinson

Getting a little sick of the bassturds screwtinizing us. I would like to see some of the obassturds phone records. I have a pretty good idea he couldn’t survive the scrutiny.


3 posted on 08/19/2013 11:33:22 AM PDT by bigheadfred (INFIDEL)
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To: Jim Robinson


4 posted on 08/19/2013 11:36:30 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Jim Robinson
Problem is that Sensenbrenner and his GOP-E comrades enabled all of this, and they are just as complicit as Obama.

Sensenbrenner Speaks On Behalf of Reauthorization of PATRIOT ACT

Sensenbrenner urges passage of the four year extension of provisions of the PATRIOT Act

GOP struggles for PATRIOT Act votes

Bachmann Votes to Renew the Patriot Act

5 posted on 08/19/2013 11:49:37 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Jim Robinson

Sensenbrenner should be in the media 24/7 and the GOPe should be repeating his talking points instead we get Bushies ok with Obama’s corrupting Bush’s Patriot act and the lib media ignoring Sensenbrenner.


6 posted on 08/19/2013 11:49:55 AM PDT by RginTN
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To: Jim Robinson
I don't think he's abusing the PATRIOT Act, per se.

That is, I think this was the intention behind the PATRIOT Act all along - to write it in such a way that it could be interpreted very broadly and be used for purposes other than terrorism.

A small number of people were pointing all this out during the PA's infancy but those warnings/pleas fell on mostly deaf ears.

7 posted on 08/19/2013 11:50:15 AM PDT by gdani
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To: Jim Robinson

This is why I opposed the PA under Bush. Slippery slope to tyranny


8 posted on 08/19/2013 11:55:46 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Thanks for posting this Jim. I have been saying this about zero and the Patriot Act for some time.


9 posted on 08/19/2013 11:56:11 AM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for the American politburo!!)
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To: gdani
A small number of people were pointing all this out during the PA's infancy but those warnings/pleas fell on mostly deaf ears.

That is exactly right.

10 posted on 08/19/2013 11:56:53 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Vaquero
This is why I opposed the PA under Bush. Slippery slope to tyranny

Unfortunately, while I also initially opposed the PA, I bought into Bush's cover story about it, but I saw the same potential for abuse.

Ruefully, I now acknowledge that I should have stuck with my initial instinct!

11 posted on 08/19/2013 12:00:59 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for the American politburo!!)
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To: Timber Rattler
Somebody should go and ask Steve King if he still believes that the Patriot Act fits Tea Party standards.

As Congress takes up legislation to reauthorize three expiring parts of the Patriot Act, it should take seriously the tea party’s commitment to constitutional fidelity.

Judged by that standard, Patriot passes with flying colors. It just lets counterterrorism agents use some of the same tools that regular cops have used for decades. These tools have exacting safeguards to protect civil liberties, and federal courts have consistently upheld their constitutionality.

Moron.

12 posted on 08/19/2013 12:01:32 PM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: gdani

Yeah, and those people here who did object to it were treated to pleny of “why do you hate america?” and “go back to DU, Soros plant!” But I guess now that someone with a different letter next to his name is in the white house it’s cool to question handing that much power to the government.


13 posted on 08/19/2013 12:03:53 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Timber Rattler

And I washed my hands of anyone who voted to reauthorize that abomination to the constitution, including the tea party hypocrites who got in line behind it.


14 posted on 08/19/2013 12:06:51 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Jim Robinson
How Obama has abused the Patriot Act

You obviously are not familiar with how fascism works.

15 posted on 08/19/2013 12:11:57 PM PDT by Hoodat (BENGHAZI - 4 KILLED, 2 MIA)
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To: Jim Robinson

Sensenbrenner shouldn’t have supported the Patriot Act to begin with.


16 posted on 08/19/2013 12:15:50 PM PDT by Darren McCarty (Abortion - legalized murder for convenience)
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To: Diogenesis

Passage of the Patriot Act was the beginning of the end of America. They should have just called it “The Police State Act”


17 posted on 08/19/2013 12:29:29 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Darren McCarty

Heck, he wrote the thing himself, and then helped break arms to get it renewed in May 2011. He also tried to get the sunset provision removed altogether so that it would be permanent but failed. And now here he is crying foul. What a hypocrite!


18 posted on 08/19/2013 12:36:06 PM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: gdani

EXCACTLY. Many of us were saying yeah It’s Dubya now. Wait till Hillary gets elected then watch the abuse.

Instead we ended up with Bozo the Clown and the Muslim Brotherhood.


19 posted on 08/19/2013 12:57:34 PM PDT by VRWCarea51
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To: Jim Robinson

What is the intended use of all this private information? Will it be used against us selectively in a court of law? If it is collected legally under the PA, why not?


20 posted on 08/19/2013 1:37:26 PM PDT by mom.mom
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To: mom.mom

It’s not for good, and it’s not being collected legally.


21 posted on 08/19/2013 1:43:28 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson; All

The best indicator of a PHONY ADMINISTRATION is the number of its REAL SCANDALS.

Commie Obama’s talking points are thus smokescreen distractions for the products of Obama’s first 4 years in office:

* Refusal to close US Southern Border to Mexican illegal alien invaders
* No known un-forged records of Place of Birth
* No known un-forged records of University grades
* Benghazi Massacre
* Dereliction of Duty as CIC during Benghazi Massacre
* Cover up of Benghazi Massacre
* Destruction of Seal Team Six
* Cover up of Fast and Furious murder of US Border Agent by Exec. Order
* IRS-Obama’care” Commune Death Grip on Wealth and Health
* NSA-Gestapo Death Grip on all citizen’s communications
* Use Courts against News Media
* Use of Supreme Court to install Un-Constitutional Obama’care’ Tax
* Destruction of the US Coal Industry
* Refusal to permit XL Pipeline construction
* Trillion Dollar a year Federal Overspending
* Monthly violations of the US Constitution by Obama
* Use of Exec. Orders to bypass Congress


22 posted on 08/19/2013 2:15:31 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Traitor John Roberts' Commune-Style Obama'care' violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: Jim Robinson

ping


23 posted on 08/19/2013 2:46:29 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Orangedog
Yeah, and those people here who did object to it were treated to pleny of “why do you hate america?” and “go back to DU, Soros plant!” But I guess now that someone with a different letter next to his name is in the white house it’s cool to question handing that much power to the government.

Lot of FReepers were warning against the abuse of the PA and the TIA/NSA stuff back in 2002-2004.

Total Information Awareness (TIA) System - Nov 25, 2002 (Free Republic)

EPIC.org Total Information Awareness (TIA) News Nov 25, 2002 (Free Republic)

Critics say Defense 'Total Information Awareness' Impractical - Dec 12, 2002 (Free Republic)

TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS (TIA) UPDATE - Feb 7, 2003 (Free Republic)

Pentagon spy database funding revealed (Total Information Awareness ) - Feb 27, 2003 (Free Republic)

Total Information Awareness Project Undergoes First Test - Apr 10, 2003 (Free Republic)

U.S. Pressing for High-Tech Spy Tools (Total Information Awareness) - Feb 22, 2004 (Free Republic)

U.S. Still Mining Terror Data (Total Information Awareness Program) - Feb 23, 2004 (Free Republic)

Total Information Awareness - Mar 8, 2007 (Free Republic)
24 posted on 08/19/2013 4:36:06 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: Orangedog

“Yeah, and those people here who did object to it were treated to pleny of “why do you hate america?” and “go back to DU, Soros plant!” But I guess now that someone with a different letter next to his name is in the white house it’s cool to question handing that much power to the government.”

I believe that’s a lot of why conservatism has such a black eye with the general public. The hypocrisy of the Bush years.


25 posted on 08/19/2013 4:44:16 PM PDT by snarkybob
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To: All
The monstrous Obama govt we, the people, live under---is utterly capable of extraordinary crimes against its people.

<><> Benghazi do-nothing WRT slaughtered Americans

<><> Hillary's State Dept covers-up sex scandals---obstructs justice---scrubs investigations

<><> Holder's DOJ (labels journo Rosen a criminal--seizes AP dcumnts--snoops USSC/Congress' blackberries)

<><> IRS political targeting

<><> IRS steals 60 million private medical records

<><> HHS' Sibelius strong-arms Obamacare insurance providers for money

<><> secret NSA snooping

<><> IRS sending $45 Million/32,000 EITC refunds to illegals at ONE address.

<><> Snowden globe-trots w/ US secrets

<><> EPA uses phantom email accounts

<><> Holder's Fast and Furious gun-running; savage drug cartels kill two US border patrol agents

<><> 5 million Ohaha henchmen w/ top security clearance---Ntl security undermined

<><> govt wiretaps rose 71% last year alone

<><> O's drones shoot down Americans outside military parameters

<><> monstrous TSA travesties

<><> Solyndra and other green money-laundries

<><> sucking up to gays and other predator/perverts

<><> forces Boy Scouts to admit gays.

<><> Obamacare (and other laws) violated at will

<><> The Data Hub---HHS' database of personal info

<><> PP'hood profiteering---will control Data Hub

<><> forcing primitive populations w/ Third World loyalties on US taxpayers

<><> violating 2nd amendment rights

<><> empowering Planned Parnthood's abortion savagery

<><> PPhood genital-sniffers as O'Care navigator

<><> police state---monitoring license plates 24/7

<><> food foreign aid---EBT card abuse

<><> Obamas' non-stop luxe tax-pay vacays.

<><>DOJ advises Muslim council edgy social media posts violate civil rights/religious freedom---

<><> Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev's inflammatory postings not mentioned

<><>DOJ asserts "global Christian terror" (?) rivals worldwide Islamic violence threats

<><> Obama orders shutdowns of coal-fired, electricity generating plants

<><> Big Brother surveillance/punishment

<><> radical judges/Obama commissars hostile to 10th Amendment.

26 posted on 08/19/2013 5:19:06 PM PDT by Liz
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To: snarkybob

That and the almost violent reaction some of us got here during those years for pointing out that building your economy with a nation of mortgage brokers and wedding planners while re-classifying fast food jobs as manufacturing might not be such a great idea. Oh, and we were called a bunch of anti bush, america hating nutters for buying gold at $400/oz and silver at $5/oz. Those threads were a hoot.


27 posted on 08/19/2013 5:32:49 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Orangedog

“That and the almost violent reaction some of us got here during those years for pointing out that building your economy with a nation of mortgage brokers and wedding planners while re-classifying fast food jobs as manufacturing might not be such a great idea. Oh, and we were called a bunch of anti bush, america hating nutters for buying gold at $400/oz and silver at $5/oz. Those threads were a hoot.”

I remember that GWB could do no wrong here. And supposedly freedom loving conservatives cheered things like the Patriot Act. I also remember the shoutdown of anybody who questioned even lightly the decision to invade Iraq.
This boards majority was cheering for war and I remember a story here about some guy in Maine or somewhere who was escorted out of a shopping mall for wearing a T-shirt with a peace sign on it. Plenty of Freepers thought that was A-OK.

Now it’s 10 years farther on and the Dems are in power and it’s conservatives getting the boot put on their necks and many here are squealing about their loss of freedom. Maybe the loss of anybodys freedoms should have overrode viewing politics like a spectator sport.


28 posted on 08/19/2013 7:06:07 PM PDT by snarkybob
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To: snarkybob
I remember that GWB could do no wrong here. And supposedly freedom loving conservatives cheered things like the Patriot Act. I also remember the shoutdown of anybody who questioned even lightly the decision to invade Iraq.

And some of those folks had the nerve under Bush to defend the very things they complain Obama is doing.

I posted a bunch of links about the NSA/DOD/TIA a few posts above where you can see FReepers predict the exact things that would come to pass 10 years later.

The really sad thing (beyond FReepers getting bashed for what would come to pass under Obama) is that in hindsight we should have seen all of this coming. The Bush administration grew government and accumulated power like nobody's business, only to be one-upped by Obama.

And now the GOP has shown itself to be hell-bent on electing more people in the vein of Bush - McCain, Romney, and God only knows who in 2016. People who will not restrain the power and size of government, but instead build upon Bush and Obama's "legacy".
29 posted on 08/20/2013 5:43:17 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: gdani
I don't think he's abusing the PATRIOT Act, per se. That is, I think this was the intention behind the PATRIOT Act all along - to write it in such a way that it could be interpreted very broadly and be used for purposes other than terrorism. A small number of people were pointing all this out during the PA's infancy but those warnings/pleas fell on mostly deaf ears.

Absolutely right. The problem with this article is that it seems to take the attitude that the Patriot Act was a good and sound law, it's just that the powers that it provides the government fell into the wrong hands.

The bottom line is that the Patriot Act should be opposed in any administration's hands.

30 posted on 08/20/2013 7:45:49 AM PDT by ek_hornbeck
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To: af_vet_rr

“The really sad thing (beyond FReepers getting bashed for what would come to pass under Obama) is that in hindsight we should have seen all of this coming. The Bush administration grew government and accumulated power like nobody’s business, only to be one-upped by Obama.”

The sad thing IMO is how little we really care for freedom.
Plenty of conservatives thought increased government power, and more encroachment of personal liberty was fine...as long it was our guy doing it to people we don’t like. The argument that the power would remain in the hands of the government long after our guy was gone fell on deaf ears and in many cases caused the people making that argument to become quite angry

The very things that are causing outrage here now were fine when GWB did them. There wasn’t any outrage then because it was our political opponents who were screaming. The bigger principle didn’t seem to mean diddly squat.
We all helped screw it up conservatives and liberals.
I have a liberal co-worker that hates Obama because he’s doing so many of the things that they protested GWB for...and then I have liberal co-workers who think that as long as it’s their guy doing warrant less taps and civilian surveillance it’s A-OK.


31 posted on 08/20/2013 9:20:22 AM PDT by snarkybob
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To: Jim Robinson

He abused it exactly the way we said he would back when Bush signed this into law.


32 posted on 08/20/2013 9:24:49 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: snarkybob
The sad thing IMO is how little we really care for freedom. Plenty of conservatives thought increased government power, and more encroachment of personal liberty was fine...as long it was our guy doing it to people we don’t like. The argument that the power would remain in the hands of the government long after our guy was gone fell on deaf ears and in many cases caused the people making that argument to become quite angry

You are absolutely right, the power would remain in the hands of the government no matter who won.

Another major problem is that we don't have any "our guys" anymore, and we never really had them under the Bush administration, because the Bush administration was intent on building up a database on all Americans - what we bought, who we called, etc. When Bush administration officials, along with Senate and House Republican leaders step up and defend Obama, there are no "our guys", because what Obama is doing is what the Bush administration tried to do (and apparently succeeded, we just didn't realize it). Look at the links I posted earlier - all of the stuff we are complaining about with the NSA and the Obama administration, the Bush administration wanted to do that, and then some.

We have Rand Paul, and Ted Cruz, and a few others, and that's about it. The Rest of the GOP falls in line with the Democrats on this b.s., as does Fox News and the rest of the MSM.
33 posted on 08/20/2013 10:46:32 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

“Another major problem is that we don’t have any “our guys” anymore”

I don’t think we’ve had anybody in a very long time.
At the end of the day, all the elite...and that’s political, social, economical are on the same side. The partisan aspect and what letter they have after their name is just a way of keeping everybody not in the “Club” from noticing that we’re being manipulated and herded like sheep.

Like I mentioned already, I have some liberal co-workers, and it’s both funny and sad that an overpowerful government scares all of us except we can’t unite to fight back because as long as it’s a Republican doing it then our side is OK with it and as long as it’s a Democrat doing it, they’re OK with it.

I’m reminded of Simpsons episode from around 96 where the space aliens took over America by morphing into Clinton and Dole...and of course they kept preaching that they were the only choice...otherwise you’d just be wasting your vote lol.


34 posted on 08/20/2013 12:24:04 PM PDT by snarkybob
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To: snarkybob
I don’t think we’ve had anybody in a very long time. At the end of the day, all the elite...and that’s political, social, economical are on the same side. The partisan aspect and what letter they have after their name is just a way of keeping everybody not in the “Club” from noticing that we’re being manipulated and herded like sheep.

Agree completely. They have done a very good job of basically turning the country into a one-party system, a ruling party.
35 posted on 08/20/2013 1:33:03 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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