Skip to comments.‘Stand your ground’ bill in Ohio legislature rouses foes
Posted on 08/20/2013 8:48:55 AM PDT by Deadeye Division
With the Trayvon Martin shooting still fresh in their minds, opponents of an effort to make Ohio the newest stand your ground state are circulating petitions and preparing for a fight when state lawmakers return.
Members of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus have been hosting rallies and circulating petitions at churches and businesses, looking to create grassroots opposition to House Bill 203, a gun bill that includes a stand your ground provision.
County prosecutors and a variety of law-enforcement groups also oppose the provision, which would eliminate an Ohio law requiring a person to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense, so long as the person is carrying a firearm lawfully and is in a place where he or she has the right to be.
We do not oppose the Second Amendment and the right to defend yourself, said Rep. Alicia Reece, D-Cincinnati, president of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus. But at the same time, we certainly have concerns with stand your ground provisions that would allow something like what happened in Florida.
We dont want folks who arent trained to follow innocent people around and, because of their own internal issues, decide they have the right to engage and shoot another individual.
At least 22 states have stand your ground laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
When an Ohio citizen is in peril of serious bodily harm or even death at the hands of an attacker, his or her first duty should be self-defense, not a duty to retreat and hope for the best, Rep. Terry Johnson, R-McDermott, the bill sponsor, said in a statement. The fact is that people who are confronted with life-threatening attacks often face a split-second decision, and Ohioans deserve to have clear laws that do not undermine our natural right to defend ourselves."
Fifteen House Republicans have signed on to the bill, which had one committee hearing before the summer recess. Lawmakers return after Labor Day.
Stand your ground laws have come under scrutiny nationwide since George Zimmerman was acquitted of murder in the shooting of Martin, 17. Zimmermans defense did not use Floridas stand your ground law, but the judge cited it in her jury instructions.
Ohio police, police chiefs and prosecutors oppose the proposed change in law.
If a person has the opportunity and can safely retreat to avoid using deadly force, they ought to do it, said John Murphy, executive director of the Ohio Prosecuting Attorneys Association.
Prosecutors properly assess self-defense claims involving the use of force in considering whether to file charges, and I dont think you, or I, or anyone else has heard of an epidemic of inappropriate charges, Murphy said.
Chief Robert Oppenheimer of Perry Township Police in Franklin County, who is chairman of the Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police legislative committee, said there is no need for a change.
Its sometimes more prudent to back away than charge forward. If you have (stand your ground), you are more apt to challenge each other. Nobody backs down, and it ends up with somebody getting hurt, he said. What happened in Florida shouldnt have happened. ... The jury got it right, but I dont think we want that in Ohio.
Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said the new push is part of the gun lobbys incremental efforts to expand the rights of gun owners and concealed-carry permit holders to use firearms for self-defense with less scrutiny.
House Minority Leader Tracy Maxwell Heard, D-Columbus, said, Were creating a civilian police department here, and I dont think thats required.
But Buckeye Firearms Association official Sean Maloney, a criminal-defense lawyer from Butler County, said the bill would not make a substantial change in law.
Its basically the same you cant use lethal force in either case unless you fear serious bodily injury or death. This only removes the perceived duty (to retreat) so you dont have to think once or twice about running, he said.
Michael Weinman, director of governmental affairs for the Ohio Fraternal Order of Police, said deadly force should be a last option, not first.
The fear is this will embolden people. Instead of allowing for a cool-down period, they immediately react to whatever upset them.
Dispatch Public Affairs Editor Darrel Rowland contributed to this story.
Then why do we have police?
The cops we have today for the most part wanna be military
Some Police are really good. But too many are on the job mainly because of Affirmative Actions rules
They should bring up an accompanying “Duty to Cut and Run” bill and see how many votes it gets. Force these democrats and squishy repubicans to face the principle head on.
“Members of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus”
So, why is it that Stand Your Ground laws tend to disproportionally and adversely affect their constituents? Are they admitting that it does? Are they admitting that white people are forced to defend themselves against blacks? Do they no want white people to defend themselves against blacks? Are they telling the white people of Ohio that they want them to be easy prey fo dey hommies?
People should wonder why it’s the black politicians who are fighting this.
Of course Chief Oppenheimer is armed wherever he goes. Tell me, Chief, is an elderly person or a handicapped person supposed to attempt to flee a beat down, or should they just lie down and become a victim? Those the 2 options?
and he has no requirement on him to retreat.
1. We have civilian police departments everywhere. Military police departments operate on military installations. Anyone who says otherwise is deceived, or a deceiver.
2. Police departments, both civilian and military, have been relieved by the courts of responsibility to protect citizens. Citizens must either be able to defend themselves, or surrender. Surrender is not an option for me.
3. The police are our hirelings, tasked to do certain things so we won't have to. If they, through negligence or deliberate nonfeasance, fail in their responsibilities, it is up to us, individually if necessary, to do for ourselves.
We are all No Cursive N***
I noticed your post got pulled.
These idiots can’t pass a law that obligates me to be a compliant victim!
Police departments are supposed to be civilian. In fact they should be part of the communities they patrol.
“black leaders” = pawns
more blacks used the stand your ground defense in Florida than whites.
Unfortunately police departments are reactive and not proactive. I cannot afford to wait on the police to show up if I am being mugged. To me, being mugged is an intentional act of violence. There is no mistaking that.
Which means as a victim I can fight or take flight. If my attacker thinks for one minute that I may be armed and willing to blow his sorry butt away, I won.
Take that ability away from me and the attacker wins.
These idiots cant pass a law that obligates me to be a compliant victim!
Actually, G Larry, they already have passed many such laws in many states; none of that, however, requires us to remain in states that infringe our right to self-defense.
But wait, wait, wait...
WE WERE TOLD over and over during the Zimmerman Trial, that SYG had NOTHING to do with it.
And yet, the Zimmerman Trial is being used to overturn SYG in other states???
How does that 44-oz bottle of I TOLD YOU SO taste right about now?
So if this proposal becomes law, the perps will be put on notice that their intended victims no longer have the REQUIREMENT to retreat. When retreat becomes only an OPTION, the perps will have to seriously rethink about who they look upon as victims. Their next victim may just stand their ground and insert a lead pill into the perps worthless head at high velocity.
Don't be too surprised if they try to take away your 23-oz bottle next.
Let’s boil this down to its most basic elements: Obuma is building a civilian army, and the states are giving us permission to shoot that army.
The Cowardice Bill puts agressors in charge. This is the purpose of such pressure. Gang thugs are to be given primary respect.
When they get down to the 12oz, oh it’s on...
My point is that those laws don’t pass constitutional muster, and you won’t find me complying.
We are sharpshooters and marksmen/women from the age of 8 up here.
b. "Its basically the same you cant use lethal force in either case unless you fear serious bodily injury or death."
GIMME A BREAK-
Police use lethal force all the time, sometimes on UNARMED CITIZENS because they DO NOT KNOW IF THEY FEAR SERIOUS BODILY INJURY OR DEATH coz they cannot see a weapon, sometimes only a bulge or dark object.
Then they want to be JUDGE AND JURY illegally at that moment instead OF RETREATING-
the POLICE WANT TO FIGHT and SHOOT TO KILL, not retreat
NO ONE CAN PREDICT 100% that an outcome is deadly or not
Are these people GOD??
This is a stupid non-sequitur argument.
That statement proves cops are NOT your friends. Some people here on FR need to wake up.
Most cops now want to be the ones to have guns, not you!
It's all about M O N E Y.
From my cold, dead hands.
The animals need to be put back in their place. This law is definitely a step forward in the right direction.
“Ohio police, police chiefs and prosecutors oppose the proposed change in law.”
Of course, this comes from the LEO’s in a state where speeding is a capital crime.
The cops here in California scare me, but the one’s in Ohio are Marxist thugs.
My point is that those laws dont pass constitutional muster, and you wont find me complying.
You won't get even a seventeenth of a little bitty part of an eleventeenth of an argument from me on that.
Retreat is limited to securing a Modified Weaver stance or hard cover.