Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

‘Stand your ground’ bill in Ohio legislature rouses foes
The Columbus Dispatch ^ | August 20, 2013 | Jim Siegel and Randy Ludlow

Posted on 08/20/2013 8:48:55 AM PDT by Deadeye Division

With the Trayvon Martin shooting still fresh in their minds, opponents of an effort to make Ohio the newest “stand your ground” state are circulating petitions and preparing for a fight when state lawmakers return.

Members of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus have been hosting rallies and circulating petitions at churches and businesses, looking to create grassroots opposition to House Bill 203, a gun bill that includes a “stand your ground” provision.

County prosecutors and a variety of law-enforcement groups also oppose the provision, which would eliminate an Ohio law requiring a person to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense, so long as the person is carrying a firearm lawfully and is in a place where he or she has the right to be.

“We do not oppose the Second Amendment and the right to defend yourself,” said Rep. Alicia Reece, D-Cincinnati, president of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus. “But at the same time, we certainly have concerns with ‘stand your ground’ provisions that would allow something like what happened in Florida.

“We don’t want folks who aren’t trained to follow innocent people around and, because of their own internal issues, decide they have the right to engage and shoot another individual.”

At least 22 states have “stand your ground” laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

“When an Ohio citizen is in peril of serious bodily harm or even death at the hands of an attacker, his or her first duty should be self-defense, not a duty to retreat and hope for the best,” Rep. Terry Johnson, R-McDermott, the bill sponsor, said in a statement. “The fact is that people who are confronted with life-threatening attacks often face a split-second decision, and Ohioans deserve to have clear laws that do not undermine our natural right to defend ourselves."

Fifteen House Republicans have signed on to the bill, which had one committee hearing before the summer recess. Lawmakers return after Labor Day.

“Stand your ground” laws have come under scrutiny nationwide since George Zimmerman was acquitted of murder in the shooting of Martin, 17. Zimmerman’s defense did not use Florida’s “stand your ground” law, but the judge cited it in her jury instructions.

Ohio police, police chiefs and prosecutors oppose the proposed change in law.

“If a person has the opportunity and can safely retreat to avoid using deadly force, they ought to do it,” said John Murphy, executive director of the Ohio Prosecuting Attorneys Association.

Prosecutors properly assess self-defense claims involving the use of force in considering whether to file charges, “and I don’t think you, or I, or anyone else has heard of an epidemic of inappropriate charges,” Murphy said.

Chief Robert Oppenheimer of Perry Township Police in Franklin County, who is chairman of the Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police legislative committee, said there is no need for a change.

“It’s sometimes more prudent to back away than charge forward. If you have (stand your ground), you are more apt to challenge each other. Nobody backs down, and it ends up with somebody getting hurt,” he said. “What happened in Florida shouldn’t have happened. ... The jury got it right, but I don’t think we want that in Ohio.”

Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said the new push is part of the gun lobby’s incremental efforts to expand the rights of gun owners and concealed-carry permit holders to use firearms for self-defense with less scrutiny.

House Minority Leader Tracy Maxwell Heard, D-Columbus, said, “We’re creating a civilian police department here, and I don’t think that’s required.”

But Buckeye Firearms Association official Sean Maloney, a criminal-defense lawyer from Butler County, said the bill would not make a substantial change in law.

“It’s basically the same — you can’t use lethal force in either case unless you fear serious bodily injury or death. This only removes the perceived duty (to retreat) so you don’t have to think once or twice about running,” he said.

Michael Weinman, director of governmental affairs for the Ohio Fraternal Order of Police, said deadly force should be a last option, not first.

“The fear is this will embolden people. Instead of allowing for a cool-down period, they immediately react to whatever upset them.”

Dispatch Public Affairs Editor Darrel Rowland contributed to this story.

jsiegel@dispatch.com

@phrontpage

rludlow@dispatch.com

@randyludlow


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; housebill203; secondamendment; standyourground; trayvonmartin

1 posted on 08/20/2013 8:48:55 AM PDT by Deadeye Division
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division
“We don’t want folks who aren’t trained to follow innocent people around and, because of their own internal issues, decide they have the right to engage and shoot another individual.”

LOL
2 posted on 08/20/2013 8:54:05 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Then why do we have police?
The cops we have today for the most part wanna be military
Some Police are really good. But too many are on the job mainly because of Affirmative Actions rules


3 posted on 08/20/2013 8:56:20 AM PDT by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

They should bring up an accompanying “Duty to Cut and Run” bill and see how many votes it gets. Force these democrats and squishy repubicans to face the principle head on.


4 posted on 08/20/2013 8:56:29 AM PDT by cotton1706
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

“Members of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus”

So, why is it that Stand Your Ground laws tend to disproportionally and adversely affect their constituents? Are they admitting that it does? Are they admitting that white people are forced to defend themselves against blacks? Do they no want white people to defend themselves against blacks? Are they telling the white people of Ohio that they want them to be easy prey fo dey hommies?

People should wonder why it’s the black politicians who are fighting this.


5 posted on 08/20/2013 8:56:46 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

Of course Chief Oppenheimer is armed wherever he goes. Tell me, Chief, is an elderly person or a handicapped person supposed to attempt to flee a beat down, or should they just lie down and become a victim? Those the 2 options?


6 posted on 08/20/2013 8:57:29 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Pining_4_TX

and he has no requirement on him to retreat.

Mike


8 posted on 08/20/2013 9:04:20 AM PDT by doublecansiter (without cartridge, load in nine times, LOAD!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division
“We’re creating a civilian police department here, and I don’t think that’s required.”

1. We have civilian police departments everywhere. Military police departments operate on military installations. Anyone who says otherwise is deceived, or a deceiver.

2. Police departments, both civilian and military, have been relieved by the courts of responsibility to protect citizens. Citizens must either be able to defend themselves, or surrender. Surrender is not an option for me.

3. The police are our hirelings, tasked to do certain things so we won't have to. If they, through negligence or deliberate nonfeasance, fail in their responsibilities, it is up to us, individually if necessary, to do for ourselves.

9 posted on 08/20/2013 9:04:41 AM PDT by ExGeeEye (It's been over 90 days; time to start on 2014. Carpe GOP!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

We are all No Cursive N***

I noticed your post got pulled.


10 posted on 08/20/2013 9:06:21 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

These idiots can’t pass a law that obligates me to be a compliant victim!


11 posted on 08/20/2013 9:07:44 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ExGeeEye

Police departments are supposed to be civilian. In fact they should be part of the communities they patrol.


12 posted on 08/20/2013 9:08:07 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

“black leaders” = pawns

more blacks used the stand your ground defense in Florida than whites.


13 posted on 08/20/2013 9:23:12 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (sue the DNC for the IRS abuse! Can RICO laws be used against the DNC?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Unfortunately police departments are reactive and not proactive. I cannot afford to wait on the police to show up if I am being mugged. To me, being mugged is an intentional act of violence. There is no mistaking that.

Which means as a victim I can fight or take flight. If my attacker thinks for one minute that I may be armed and willing to blow his sorry butt away, I won.

Take that ability away from me and the attacker wins.


14 posted on 08/20/2013 9:31:00 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The reason we own guns is to protect ourselves from those wanting to take our guns from us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: G Larry
These idiots can’t pass a law that obligates me to be a compliant victim!

Actually, G Larry, they already have passed many such laws in many states; none of that, however, requires us to remain in states that infringe our right to self-defense.

15 posted on 08/20/2013 9:31:44 AM PDT by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division; ADemocratNoMore; Akron Al; arbee4bush; agrace; ATOMIC_PUNK; Badeye; ...

Ohio Ping


16 posted on 08/20/2013 9:34:59 AM PDT by Whenifhow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Joe Brower; MinuteGal; SoFloFreeper; left that other site; Joe Boucher; SeminoleCounty; ...

But wait, wait, wait...

WE WERE TOLD over and over during the Zimmerman Trial, that SYG had NOTHING to do with it.

And yet, the Zimmerman Trial is being used to overturn SYG in other states???

How does that 44-oz bottle of I TOLD YOU SO taste right about now?


17 posted on 08/20/2013 9:35:07 AM PDT by Old Sarge (Opinions are like orgasms: only mine count, and I couldn't care less if you have one...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pining_4_TX

So if this proposal becomes law, the perps will be put on notice that their intended victims no longer have the REQUIREMENT to retreat. When retreat becomes only an OPTION, the perps will have to seriously rethink about who they look upon as victims. Their next victim may just stand their ground and insert a lead pill into the perps worthless head at high velocity.


18 posted on 08/20/2013 9:43:29 AM PDT by OHPatriot (GET OFF MY LAWN !!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Old Sarge
How does that 44-oz bottle of I TOLD YOU SO taste right about now?

Don't be too surprised if they try to take away your 23-oz bottle next.

19 posted on 08/20/2013 9:49:25 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

Let’s boil this down to its most basic elements: Obuma is building a civilian army, and the states are giving us permission to shoot that army.


20 posted on 08/20/2013 10:00:39 AM PDT by sergeantdave (No, I don't have links for everything I post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cotton1706

The Cowardice Bill puts agressors in charge. This is the purpose of such pressure. Gang thugs are to be given primary respect.


21 posted on 08/20/2013 10:04:32 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

When they get down to the 12oz, oh it’s on...


22 posted on 08/20/2013 10:22:05 AM PDT by Old Sarge (Opinions are like orgasms: only mine count, and I couldn't care less if you have one...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Whenifhow
Michael Weinman, director of governmental affairs for the Ohio Fraternal Order of Police, said deadly force should be a last option, not first.

“The fear is this will embolden people. Instead of allowing for a cool-down period, they immediately react to whatever upset them.”


Deadly force is the first option of criminals and muggers, you idiot.

One who is being accosted by a mugger, a thief, or a group of thugs playing the "Blacks KnockDown a White person" game needs to react immediately to save his person
and his life. Nobody ever talked a group of these drugged up heathens out of beating himm senseless or to death, in some cases. Get a damn clue, you witless dope.
23 posted on 08/20/2013 10:31:47 AM PDT by TheOldLady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Standing Wolf

My point is that those laws don’t pass constitutional muster, and you won’t find me complying.


24 posted on 08/20/2013 10:32:13 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division
a. Second Amendment requires NO TRAINING.

We are sharpshooters and marksmen/women from the age of 8 up here.

b. "It’s basically the same — you can’t use lethal force in either case unless you fear serious bodily injury or death."

GIMME A BREAK-

Police use lethal force all the time, sometimes on UNARMED CITIZENS because they DO NOT KNOW IF THEY FEAR SERIOUS BODILY INJURY OR DEATH coz they cannot see a weapon, sometimes only a bulge or dark object.

Then they want to be JUDGE AND JURY illegally at that moment instead OF RETREATING-

the POLICE WANT TO FIGHT and SHOOT TO KILL, not retreat

NO ONE CAN PREDICT 100% that an outcome is deadly or not

Are these people GOD??

This is a stupid non-sequitur argument.

25 posted on 08/20/2013 10:32:13 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 (("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TheOldLady

That statement proves cops are NOT your friends. Some people here on FR need to wake up.

Most cops now want to be the ones to have guns, not you!


26 posted on 08/20/2013 10:43:15 AM PDT by packrat35 (Admit it! We are almost ready to be called a police state!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Old Sarge
Nothing will come of it. It just gives them a platform and likely...an income...travel, expenses etc..

It's all about M O N E Y.

27 posted on 08/20/2013 10:52:09 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: packrat35

From my cold, dead hands.


28 posted on 08/20/2013 10:58:12 AM PDT by TheOldLady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

The animals need to be put back in their place. This law is definitely a step forward in the right direction.


29 posted on 08/20/2013 1:19:03 PM PDT by RC one
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deadeye Division

“Ohio police, police chiefs and prosecutors oppose the proposed change in law.”

Of course, this comes from the LEO’s in a state where speeding is a capital crime.
The cops here in California scare me, but the one’s in Ohio are Marxist thugs.


30 posted on 08/20/2013 1:23:22 PM PDT by vette6387
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: G Larry
My point is that those laws don’t pass constitutional muster, and you won’t find me complying.

You won't get even a seventeenth of a little bitty part of an eleventeenth of an argument from me on that.

31 posted on 08/20/2013 1:24:08 PM PDT by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

Retreat is limited to securing a Modified Weaver stance or hard cover.


32 posted on 08/20/2013 9:19:06 PM PDT by S.O.S121.500 (Case back hoe for sale or trade for diesel wood chipper....Enforce the Bill of Rights. It's the Law!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson