Skip to comments.Pope bows for Muslim Queen Rania of Jordan in latest display of breaking with tradition
Posted on 09/01/2013 7:03:45 AM PDT by NotYourAverageDhimmi
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I don't think Pope Frank is going to abolish the papacy, but he certainly has the power, and apparently the inclination, to tweak its scope in practice. The Orthodox brethren certainly perked up heir ears when, on his first day, Francis described himself as having been elected "Bishop of Rome" --- and didn't mention any of the other stuff. It hinted that he was going to focus on his own backyard, jurisdictionally speaking.
He also has the authority to determine how his successor will be picked. (It hasn't always been by a vote of Cardinals, of course. That was a relatively recent innovation: 1059.)
I always thought it would be neat if they said all the candidates for Pope have to be bishops (men), but all the electors (cardinals) would be women.
Are you sure you're not a closet Catholic?
then why cite their bowing as being comparable to that of the pope
"If you want to live in that kind of society I am sure the Japanese would welcome you."My point was, it's not just Japan. America, too, used to be a country where people knew a bit about courtesy and honor.
As for the Pope being comparable to Washington and Lincoln? Well, he's comparable in, at minimum, two ways: first, as a head of state; and second, as a Christian gentleman.
I wouldn’t see that happening either in a literal sense, but maybe this pope’s presiding will be marked with an unmistakable change in tone towards the remainder of Christendom. That of course he hopes Christendom will reunite, but that at the same time he respects the choice of the rest of Christendom to worship in the milieu where they are and sees them all together with his congregation (the largest single one on earth) as part of one large church. It would be a new model for the papacy rather than an abolition of the office. And one which definitely would get the evangelicals talking with Rome far more freely now that they do not perceive Rome as stating they are doomed for worshiping where they are.
I’ve got beliefs that wouldn’t rhyme with current Roman Catholic doctrine. One of them is a “Calminian” belief that holds to the permanency of a sealed salvation; this is not a testimony to our power but to the power of the Lord to line His deterministic ducks up in a row, yet mystically without robbing us of our wills. “My Father gives them to Me and nobody can snatch them out of My hand.” We don’t see all the details of how God lines up our choices with space and time and that’s fine with me; He’s God and I’m not. Anyhow you can’t fail to notice how I got a certain cynical bruin to shut up when I pulled that card out of my deck! He’s Calvinist and we agree with respect to the final phase of the life of a person who is saved and that is sufficient when we discuss it.
I am an odd case in modern Christendom. I affirm the work of Christ wherever it occurs. I take a grace view, slow to condemn, when seeking to understand what’s really going on. Some folks just pull together big conglomerations of damnation in their thoughts, like a magnet. Agh, this or that thing is the Great Whore (which actually does not appear in the bible until well into a very godless phase of history). I have never seen Roman Catholics rejoice that hey they are Roman Catholics... if this happened then I would say they have truly gone off the deep end and shucked off the Lord for a completely synthetic entity. THAT is how this Whore would act; she’d be extremely brazen because she would be powered from hell. Anyhow to me that’s like comparing a garter snake to a deadly cobra. That doesn’t mean such thoughts of damnation can’t be set straight later, but getting rid of the “damns” in a life really allows the light in. If Christ did not come to damn, leaving that to happen later when attempts to bless fail, why should we? Why should I? That’s my standpoint.
Anyhow we can agree we disagree on a lot of stuff. But I look at the work of the Lord wherever it takes place and honor it; I always accept the baby, I often detest the bath water.
God bless you.
A mobius-strip of a paradox for sure. That's how I explain it to my RCIA students (the annual comin' in class of Catholic wannabees).
Peace and grace to you, ya redneck! (I prefer "Out and Proud 7A Zone USDA Appalachian-American")
I can be Christian sympatico in multiple contexts because half my mind is not occupied with “oh damn those horrible heretics.” A sentiment which you won’t see in the New Testament. At the same time my mind is not so open my brains fall out... I got deep, fundamental problems with, say, the Mormon model. Christ is more than a spirit brother; He is also God already. They are at best dealing an insult to Christ that He has to work past, and at worst worshiping a powerless, synthetic entity. And the problem seems to show; high muckety muck bishop Mitt Romney is the consummate weather vane. I guess weather vanes are OK if you can keep the wind blowing the right way (we can’t, however) and otherwise they are trouble!
I worship quite boldly in a Southern Baptist congregation and I feel this is where the Lord has brought out my forte.
Baptists and Catholics are pretty good prolife allies here in Upper East Tennessee.
Well, there could be some philosophical convergence here, but obviously there will need to be greater discussions between the Roman Catholic and evangelical segments of Christendom to hash out these details. There may be fewer segments of stark disagreement than we think.
Anyhow when I’ve totally dumped it on the floor, I don’t worry. I exalt the Lord that he forgave me, tell the accusing devil to buzz off because God even used that situation as an advantage in my life to teach me more about His grace, and go on in victory.
This being the bible belt, I am not surprised at all.
When the communities talk, a lot of misconceptions get mowed down on both sides. NOT talking allows room for a lot of lies. There are disagreements no doubt, but adding more that aren’t even based on facts, but on surmises on how the existing disagreements play out in real life, don’t help Christ’s own purpose that we should be one, in status if not physically now.
Christians are saved, live, and thrive because of Christ. That’s one invariant I will insist upon. Mistaken claims that a part of the family is more important and thus defines who the family is (like the elder brother in the story of the prodigal son) don’t affect Christ’s own love because it doesn’t depend on how well His family reflects it right now, this side of heaven.
Re the prodigal son... note that the young, wastrel brother came home to his FATHER. Not to his OLDER BROTHER!
Let’s keep a humble perspective as we seek the Lord’s blessing in what we do. He puts up with a lot of guff that He knows He will get straightened out later. He planned things that way. Satan’s chaos won’t have the last say.
This is such an excellent analogy. And notice that the elder brother doesn't even call him a brother, he calls him "this son of yours" --- boy, you can feel the ice in that across 20 centuries.
Have a beer on me! Or ---oops ---are you from the non-drankin Baptists? (Insert very puzzled Catholic look...)
Yes, the ice is chilling. Fortunately God has more than enough warmth to melt it. I am optimistic with a military strength optimism about Christendom, because Christ is so mighty, not because our modern worship communities are so wonderful. God never lets things happen without a reason. Sometimes it is lessons in retrospect.
Anyhow as the Father throws a party for the younger brother, and it seems to be going on right now (there is emphatic gospel going on in much of it) the whole family will eventually understand because they will all share the Father’s love.
Hey, I do believe the alcohol restriction in the Baptist covenant is the wrong perspective. Since I technically am not a member, I belong officially still to a Bible congregation that has a laxer policy, they let me skate on the joy juice (and in moderation offered to the Lord it is literally a joy juice). The right perspective would be to agree to honor God in our bodies and that would take care of not just the alcohol issue but the sex issue and the eating issue and the exercise issue and the health issue and... lots of stuff.
But! That does not stymie the Lord. It does serve to show that the Lord can minister amongst marked imperfection.
Also I do have a more robust view than the official, if not the unofficial, Roman Catholic one about the durability of a salvation sealed with the Holy Spirit.
The consequence of disobedience in this context isn’t to literally become unsaved. It is to incur chastisement which could easily be more harsh than that of a nonbeliever who sinned in the same way. Because much more is at stake now.
The mortal sin in this context would also be the one that brings on physical death. We are told prayer for this is not necessary, for whatever reason. That seems to open a door for the option, but as we would have a very limited view at best upon the continuation of that story, as opposed to actually watching a stumbling Christian straighten up before our eyes, such a prayer would have little to guide it.
Anyhow... that’s my Crazy Evangelical take. God bless you and remember He never leaves or forsakes you.