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High radiation readings found at Fukushima tanks (NEW LEAK)
Japan Today ^ | 09/01/13 | staff

Posted on 09/01/2013 7:10:12 AM PDT by winoneforthegipper

At the time of last week’s discovered leak the plant operator said the radioactivity of the puddles was around 100 millisieverts per hour.

Jiji news agency said the highest reading of 1,800 millisieverts per hour was found at one of the tanks, adding that exposure to that level for four hours would be fatal to humans. The other readings measured between 70 and 230 millisieverts, the agency added.

A TEPCO official said the operator could not rule out the possibility of new leaks of radioactive water at the four sites, the agency reported, adding that the operator had not noticed a decline in water levels inside the tanks.

(Excerpt) Read more at japantoday.com ...


TOPICS: Japan; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fukushima; nuclear; nuclearpower; radiation
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1800 millisieverts per hour? It just got real serious.
1 posted on 09/01/2013 7:10:12 AM PDT by winoneforthegipper
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To: Errant

You will want to read this...


2 posted on 09/01/2013 7:10:46 AM PDT by winoneforthegipper ("If you can't ride two horses at once, you probably shouldn't be in the circus" - SP)
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To: winoneforthegipper

Thanks! You’re right, this is getting REAL serious. If they have to leave the site, and no longer able to keep the cores and stored rods cool, it’s Katie bar the door!


3 posted on 09/01/2013 7:20:44 AM PDT by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper

Time to finally purchase that radiation detector, if you’ve been putting it off!


4 posted on 09/01/2013 7:23:52 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

No drop in water levels....yet 1800k? What are they containing it will plastic?....lol


5 posted on 09/01/2013 7:26:27 AM PDT by winoneforthegipper ("If you can't ride two horses at once, you probably shouldn't be in the circus" - SP)
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To: winoneforthegipper

I’ve read where they purchased cheap metal storage tanks from the lowest bidder. In their defense, time was an issue as well.


6 posted on 09/01/2013 7:30:11 AM PDT by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper
1800k

Fatal in just a few hours. Lifetime limit in mere minutes...

7 posted on 09/01/2013 7:31:22 AM PDT by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper

8 posted on 09/01/2013 7:33:18 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

What I don’t get is the lack the urgency with this. Certainly as you say things can get real bad real quick.


9 posted on 09/01/2013 7:33:28 AM PDT by winoneforthegipper ("If you can't ride two horses at once, you probably shouldn't be in the circus" - SP)
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To: Errant

I am in Florida. How long do I have?


10 posted on 09/01/2013 7:35:28 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: winoneforthegipper

I think they’re about out of options. In the meantime, folks are ignoring; hoping it goes away.


11 posted on 09/01/2013 7:35:52 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

Well this from the last paragraph of the Article kinda lends a clue as to where this is heading.

The International Atomic Energy Agency questioned why the leak last week of 300 tons of highly radioactive water merited a rating on its International Nuclear Event Scale (INES), when no other incident since the March 2011 meltdowns had.


12 posted on 09/01/2013 7:38:05 AM PDT by winoneforthegipper ("If you can't ride two horses at once, you probably shouldn't be in the circus" - SP)
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To: Gadsden1st

Two inches less and you’d been a queen.


13 posted on 09/01/2013 7:38:40 AM PDT by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper

There has been so much disinformation and flat out lies, the only thing one can rely on is the fact that the situation is continuing to worsen...


14 posted on 09/01/2013 7:41:09 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

Hi Sis!

Sorry if I offended you.

Seriously, what is the big picture here? What is the solution and how bad can this get?


15 posted on 09/01/2013 7:47:38 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: Gadsden1st

The next time you order Alaskan King Crab, and see that it’s glowing, get a refund.


16 posted on 09/01/2013 7:48:25 AM PDT by aimhigh
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To: winoneforthegipper

The lack of urgency has been there since day one. First, it was Japan’s usual denial to save face. Second, they immediately knew it wasn’t fixable two years ago. Third, the msm has played along with the denial.


17 posted on 09/01/2013 7:50:25 AM PDT by bgill (This reply was mined before it was posted.)
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To: Gadsden1st
Seriously, what is the big picture here?

Florida is better of than most other states as far as contaminants from rainwater. Southern Florida even better. I don't think anyone knows how bad it could get if the workers are forced offsite and unable to keep the cooling going. There is many times more nuclear material stored at Fukushima than ever existed at Chernobyl. This issue is lonely how much of it gets distributed and by what means.

I'm no expert, just my 2 cents... :)

18 posted on 09/01/2013 7:54:59 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Gadsden1st

Correction - The issue is how much of it gets distributed and by what means.


19 posted on 09/01/2013 7:57:37 AM PDT by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper

just effing great


20 posted on 09/01/2013 7:57:50 AM PDT by miliantnutcase
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To: Errant

I think I’ve read 666,000 spent rods.

I really am thinking of getting a geiger counter.


21 posted on 09/01/2013 8:06:38 AM PDT by txhurl ('The DOG ate my homework. That homework, too. ALL my homework. OK?' - POSHITUS)
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To: winoneforthegipper

How much water is there?

What is the half-life of the material?


22 posted on 09/01/2013 8:06:55 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: Errant
I don't think anyone knows how bad it could get if the workers are forced offsite and unable to keep the cooling going.

I thought Japan was the premier developer in robotics. What have they done in that regard?

23 posted on 09/01/2013 8:09:58 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: txhurl; djf
Between Fukushima and Obama trying to start WWIII, it might not be a bad idea. If do get one, go for those that also read alpha particles. They are more expensive, but better for checking for food contamination which could be important in the long run.

Many on here know much more about them than I.

24 posted on 09/01/2013 8:14:52 AM PDT by Errant
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Even hardened electronics have issues in that kind of a high radiation environment. Seems their efforts are mostly geared toward containment, and I’m sure they know much more than me, but I’d look at remotely controlled demolition and removal/distribution, while the ability to do so still exists.


25 posted on 09/01/2013 8:22:35 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

Is NERC even taking water samples and publishing them?


26 posted on 09/01/2013 8:28:07 AM PDT by txhurl ('The DOG ate my homework. That homework, too. ALL my homework. OK?' - POSHITUS)
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To: txhurl; winoneforthegipper

I don’t know. Most everything I’ve seen is data from the power company in Becquerels and hard for most everyone to convert to better understood Sieverts - for a reason, I assume.


27 posted on 09/01/2013 8:32:33 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

Having watched the Deepwater Horizon activities live, it seems they could do certain remote control actions with radio or cable controlled normal equipment...like Bobcats and other tractors fitted with specialized gripping equipment.

I’m sure there are overhead cranes etc, and they probably have the best engineers in the world there working on it, but why is nothing happening?

If ever there were a serious threat to the environment...this is it.


28 posted on 09/01/2013 8:33:42 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Yep, I don't have an answer, and time is running out...

In the same regard, why are we trying to blow ourselves up over the ME?

It's like we've lost the ability to work together and put our differences aside in order to accomplish a common good, lately.

"...see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass..."

29 posted on 09/01/2013 8:41:52 AM PDT by Errant
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Having watched the Deepwater Horizon activities live...

Btw, wasn't that something! The thread is still here on FR, I'm sure. We never did learn who the heroes behind the controls were.

30 posted on 09/01/2013 8:43:54 AM PDT by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper; flaglady47; mickie; seekthetruth; Chigirl 26; hoosiermama; Maine Mariner
Where is Algore, the Sierra Club and all the usual globull-warming shills on this?

Sitting in the counting-house counting all their carbon footprint money?

Leni

31 posted on 09/01/2013 8:48:50 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: Errant
We never did learn who the heroes behind the controls were.

By the way they handled that gear (which already existed) it appeared they were old hands at it.

Maybe they do it every day...somewhere else.

32 posted on 09/01/2013 8:53:41 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

What amazed me, when they were placing the control head on, and the oil was gushing everywhere blinding the cameras, the ROVs were still perfectly able to remain on station. Maybe they also have some kind of sonar imaging or other stabilization method?


33 posted on 09/01/2013 9:06:02 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant
The DWH gear was "fly by wire" as opposed to wireless, since radio doesn't work well under water.

Regarding what you said about "hardened electronics":

I'm not sure if there is a lot of electromagnetic wave activity around such intense radiation (if so, I always wondered why they bothered to make steam instead of harnessing the radiation to make power) or if the radiation actually damages the chips etc by changing their atomic structure.

It's pretty likely that "hardening" would probably entail quite a bit of lead shielding in the form of cases for the controls, and maybe the cable too.

If cables are not needed, that would make life a lot simpler for the engineers.

34 posted on 09/01/2013 9:18:10 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
or if the radiation actually damages the chips etc by changing their atomic structure

It works something like that. Radiation hardening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening.

35 posted on 09/01/2013 9:22:31 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

If the Mythbusters can drive a Plymouth Fury by remote control, and considering the DWH folks, these world class engineers should be able to remotely be in there to git-er done.

Maybe the Japanese aren’t allowing Americans and other foreigners in there to help.


36 posted on 09/01/2013 9:26:22 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
I'm not sure if there is a lot of electromagnetic wave activity around such intense radiation

γ radiation is high frequency photons, or radio waves above 10 exahertz (1019 Hz.) So there is a lot of EM waves around a γ source.

or if the radiation actually damages the chips etc by changing their atomic structure.

Yes. Ionizing radiation is directly affecting atoms, and it causes electronics to fail. Per Wikipedia:

Environments with high levels of ionizing radiation create special design challenges. A single charged particle can knock thousands of electrons loose, causing electronic noise and signal spikes. In the case of digital circuits, this can cause results which are inaccurate or unintelligible.

37 posted on 09/01/2013 9:33:38 AM PDT by Greysard
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To: Greysard
Hmmm...

In that case (back to my musing)....Why don't they just put an "antenna" around a radioactive source and pull current out of it, instead of messing around with an archaic boiler and steam-punk engine?

ie convert radiation directly to current.

38 posted on 09/01/2013 9:41:08 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
The Japanese are ahead or equal with robotics. My guess would be the age old enemies: bureaucracy and fear. What's needed is something massive in size. Controlling and collecting dust will be a huge issue during demolition along with a number of other technologies needed to be developed specifically for this job.

Reagan used to offer up the scenario of aliens attacking as a reason to unite the world. Here we have an actual threat to us all and still can't unite to solve it. We have to go create even more danger. Are we stupid or what?

39 posted on 09/01/2013 9:55:03 AM PDT by Errant
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Why don't they just put an "antenna" around a radioactive source and pull current out of it, instead of messing around with an archaic boiler and steam-punk engine?

They kinda do. However what is the wavelength of 10 exahertz? It is 1.18 microinches. That's twice the length of the antenna that you need. Care to build one or two for me, along with rectifier diodes? :-)

This is subatomic scale, and this is why the radiation can affect atoms. Electrons themselves are antennas for the energy. A single atom of Hydrogen (one proton, one electron) has diameter of 2 microinches. The smallest atom is larger than the wavelength of gamma radiation!

You still can convert energy of gamma radiation into thermal energy. But it's about the same as boiling a cup of tea by harvesting kinetic energy from a hail of bullets on a battlefield. Each gamma photon is so destructive that you will be awash in radioactive products of collisions. Sure, eventually they all decay into something more or less stable, and thermal energy will be released. But it will be a dirty business, not unlike what happens inside of a nuclear reactor.

40 posted on 09/01/2013 9:58:07 AM PDT by Greysard
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To: Greysard
Hooking the red cable to the hydrogen proton would be easy compared to attaching the negative to the electron! ;)

Seriously, thanks for sharing. I never realized gamma waves were so short!

41 posted on 09/01/2013 10:09:12 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Greysard
They kinda do.

Regarding EMP from a nuclear detonation, which theoretically knocks out power grids, and everything else:

Why couldn't they create a controlled EMP inside a containment vessel, a sort of shielded rotating cylinder, which has slots or windows in it that alternately "flashes" the radiation at a transducer/antenna?

Couldn't that produce a fairly controllable current in a coil of wire?

42 posted on 09/01/2013 10:23:41 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: Greysard
You got me to thinking about something, and I found this: Gamma-Ray Bending Opens New Door for Optics. Theoretically, you might be able build a gamma-ray microscope with previously unimaginable resolution?
43 posted on 09/01/2013 10:26:38 AM PDT by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper

Stumbled on a show online (Bob Tusken) where he was interviewing a man with a background in nuclear power plants.

He said the frightening thing was that the Japanese are continuing to flood the area of the rods with water and that’s making a soup out of the earth underneath the reactor, making it incredibly unstable.

He said robotics would be only way to withdraw the rods and said the Japanese are desperate for international help.

Personally, I think all the “elites” have their bunkers and food supplies to run to—the rest of us are on our own.

Hasn’t Benghazi Barry built a new bunker underneath the White House? Why?


44 posted on 09/01/2013 10:28:39 AM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Errant

“...see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass...”

Thanks for posting this...Gotta keep repeating this to myself and my better half.

Got chills listening to the guest on aforementioned show when he said the algae would turn red eventually.

YIKES!


45 posted on 09/01/2013 10:34:40 AM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Much of the energy released with nuclear fission manifests itself as kinetic energy. As the particles are slowed by bouncing off of other particles in the reactor, the KE is converted into heat. Steam turbines are a relatively efficient way of converting the heat energy (lower thermodynamic value) into electricity (high thermodynamic value).

I recommend some Thermodynamics courses, including some graduate level Statistical Thermodynamics, to understand this better. Maxwell is not going to help you here.


46 posted on 09/01/2013 10:37:14 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: FreedomPoster
I recommend some Thermodynamics courses, including some graduate level Statistical Thermodynamics, to understand this better.

I'm sure the nuk-sperts have all this stuff down pat.

But what courses would I have to take to tell me never to build a nuclear plant on a fault line or in a tsunami zone?

47 posted on 09/01/2013 10:44:39 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: Errant
If they have to leave the site, and no longer able to keep the cores and stored rods cool, it’s Katie bar the door!

Without getting TOO technical, what would happen Errant?

48 posted on 09/01/2013 10:46:03 AM PDT by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: houeto

Chernobyl x1000, maybe more...


49 posted on 09/01/2013 10:49:03 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

Just found this site—don’t know if there’s any good technical info here, but kind of a diary:

http://fukushima-diary.com/category/dnews/


50 posted on 09/01/2013 10:56:59 AM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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