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Why Science Doesnt Support Orientation-Change Bans
First Things ^ | September 4, 2013 | Peter Sprigg

Posted on 09/04/2013 8:02:39 AM PDT by rhema

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie recently signed Assembly Bill 3371, which forbids licensed professional counselors in the state to “engage in sexual orientation change efforts with a person under 18 years of age.”

Christie indicated that in signing the bill, he was accepting the professional expertise of the American Psychological Association. It is true that the APA has been highly critical of “sexual reorientation therapy” or “sexual orientation change efforts.” It is unfortunate that both the legislature and the governor failed to recognize, however, that even professional organizations can fall prey to political pressure and ideological bias—as has certainly been the case with the APA on the issue of homosexuality.

Yet even despite the APA’s longstanding sympathy for the programs of groups like the Human Rights Campaign and GLAAD, the APA’s actual statements on the subject of sexual reorientation therapy do a great deal to undermine the conclusion that the New Jersey legislature and Gov. Christie reached.

Christie’s press release reductively declared that “people are born gay.” Yet there is no firm scientific basis for this conclusion. The three studies in the early 1990’s which were hailed by the media as providing evidence for a “gay gene” (or at least for an innate and biological cause for homosexuality) have long since been discredited by the failure of any other researchers to be able to replicate those early results.

In fact, the American Psychological Association itself has actually moved away from asserting certainty about the origins of homosexuality, declaring in their most recent statement on this question that: “There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. . . . Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles.”

(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: apa; christie; homosexualagenda

1 posted on 09/04/2013 8:02:39 AM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema

Chrispie Creme needs to come out of the closet and change his orientation to democrat and quit hiding it.


2 posted on 09/04/2013 8:08:12 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: rhema

So, you are in favor of sadistic aversion therapy? Who’s the pervert now?


3 posted on 09/04/2013 8:08:33 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: rhema

People are born gay. Yet there is no firm scientific basis for this conclusion.

When people fear truth deny is the only answer.


4 posted on 09/04/2013 8:11:38 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: rhema

I am surprised that no organization that provides these services has created “just across the border” facilities for parents. That is, just across the state border, into another state where it is legal. Parents just drive their children there for a long term stay, where they are provided room, board, and counseling.

It would be very profitable to set up shop just across the border from California, in Arizona. Not only could they provide counseling services, but they could sell products that are very expensive or prohibited in California.

Much cheaper gasoline, Indian cigarettes, foie gras, ammunition, lots of other things that the government of California is snooty and greedy about.


5 posted on 09/04/2013 8:12:37 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (The best War on Terror News is at rantburg.com)
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To: rhema

Ugh... this whole “born gay” movement is disgusting. Normalizing abnormal behavior is the problem here. I love my best friend from college, but I have no designs on his sexual accoutrement. I love my brother, but I don’t want to marry him. I love my neighbor like a brother, but I don’t want him to leave his wife to spend his life with me.

Normalizing sodomy and the idea that marriage, a holy sacrament, is intended for two people who love each other, regardless of gender, is a disgusting spectacle, and allowing children as young as 10 or 11 DECIDE that they want to be a different gender is no different than trying to TALK to a toddler having a tantrum in the middle of the cereal aisle at the grocery store.

Parents need to be parents and step up. If my wife births a boy, he’s going to grow up to be a boy and understand gender norms because he learned from his mother and father what it means to be a man. Likewise with a little girl.

There’s nothing acceptable about heterosexual parents raising a child to believe they can be whatever gender they want when their chromosomal makeup speaks otherwise, and there is NOTHING acceptable about society preaching the auspices of homosexuality when it is nothing but an abomination of nature and completely unnatural in the scheme of human reproduction and propagation of the species.

Liberals make me sick.


6 posted on 09/04/2013 8:15:27 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rhema

One could have some fun with this. After all, since gender is ALSO an orientation (As TS/TG is lumped in with Gay etc), this could be ALSO used to stop ALL Sex-reassignment therapy and surgery. . .


7 posted on 09/04/2013 8:36:47 AM PDT by Salgak (http://catalogoftehburningstoopid.blogspot.com 100% all-natural snark !)
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To: babble-on; rhema
So, you are in favor of sadistic aversion therapy? Who’s the pervert now?

One needn't assume all reparative therapy is sadistic. Contemporary practitioners use insightful compassion to ease out the deep traumas and anxieties that often accompany orientation disorders. In some if not many cases, anxiety disorders are not merely the symptom, but the root cause of orientation confusion.

8 posted on 09/04/2013 8:37:05 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: rhema

The whole idea of banning change therapy is based on an attempt to enshrine in the law what they have been unable to find in science. The evidence from twin studies has clearly shown that environment plays a huge role in forming non-hetronormative orientation. Also the whole concept of a complex behavior like sex or sex like behavior which homosexuality really is because two men and two women are wholly incapable of having “sex” denies the role of the human conscience, intellect, and choice in relationship to their “sexual” behaviors. This is a dangerous idea because it not only applies to homosexuality but to nonconsensual events. If you accept the fiction that one is “born gay” in the sense that they are incapable of not indulging in same sex behavior then one must also be born a rapist, a child molester, an adulterer and on and on. It is the denial of human freewill in matters of sex and essentially in all behavior that is the destination that we are approaching with the “born gay” baloney which of course fits perfectly in the socialist progressive paradigm which has at its heart the idea that people can not even with equal opportunity and justice under the law hope to exceed the particulars of their birth which follows that a big intrusive redistributive government must exist to “correct” such inequities.


9 posted on 09/04/2013 8:37:08 AM PDT by Maelstorm (If all are treated as suspects it will not be long before we all are treated as prisoners.)
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To: Vaduz

People are not born gay. “Gay” is a lifestyle and an array of compulsive behaviors. A miniscule percentage of people can be born with reproductive or hormonal disorders — far, far fewer than the number of people who think they are GBLT. Such organic disorders do not compel people to wear opposite-sex clothing, perform sex acts with strangers, or funnel most of their life choices through the lens of sexual practices.


10 posted on 09/04/2013 8:42:10 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
I am surprised that no organization that provides these services has created “just across the border” facilities for parents.

He only signed the legislation last week. Give New York and Philly a chance. Even in Democrat cities, where there is a dollar to be made....

11 posted on 09/04/2013 8:43:24 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: rhema

If an orientation change ban is a good thing, why not a liberal orientation ban?

I can easily live in a world with gays. Most are quite reasonable.

I cannot easily live in a world with liberals. Few are reasonable at all.

Oh well, forget about it...trying logic with liberals is akin to....trying logic with liberals.


12 posted on 09/04/2013 9:32:06 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: babble-on

Better than sadistic mutilation therapy. Which studies show does not improve the health or well-being of the patient.

Odd how if a person thinks they are a fish, or a dog, or feel they should be blind or deaf, or think they are two different people, or feel they want to be dead, or have a normal state of being where they are depressed, or feel they need to perform repetitive actions — in all these cases, the psychological community feels it is useful to try to shape, control, or change those thoughts and behaviors, to make people think differently about themselves.

But in this one unique area, how you perceive your sexual desires or lack thereof, there can be no help for you. You must suffer. No matter that you are a girl who feels repulsed by men because you were raped, or a man who feels emasculated because of beatings by your father. Nope, we can’t help you — you must instead suffer thinking that you are built wrong.

But we’ll pay to cut you up, remove your parts, make you better. If it was your nose you hated, well it’s silly to hate what you look like, but we’ll chop off your privates no problem. Sure, you are just as likely to want to kill yourself after we finish with you, and unlikely to be any happier, but we aren’t really supposed to be “helping”, right?


13 posted on 09/04/2013 10:38:59 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

science says these people have a mental illness not a physical defect


14 posted on 09/04/2013 10:39:24 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Why is it that when you are merely wrong, you try to change the subject to something else?

Arguing that sex-change operations for the tiny population of so-called transgendered people may be unhelpful does nothing to prove that behavior modification strategies for the large population of gay people are good.

And when the scientists say they do not know what “causes” homosexuality, they mean they do not know. So for you to proffer the hypothesis that all lesbianism is caused by rape and all male homosexuality is caused by child abuse is stupid.


15 posted on 09/04/2013 10:51:42 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: babble-on

It’s simple, really. The state passed a law that forbids the profession from providing any therapy to a minor that might cause them to change their opinion of sexual attraction.

That law would encompass transgender people.

You mentioned some specific type of therapy, which certainly is not the ONLY way you might counsel someone. So I mentioned ANOTHER type of therapy which also is not the ONLY one given, that i thought would be WORSE than the therapy you mentioned. We each mentioned one specific therapy, you to claim it was bad, me to say this one was worse.

My argument stands, without any appeal to being universal, or encompassing. Your claims that I suggested otherwise are what is “changing the subject”.

Likewise, the law bans therapy for ALL. That ALL includes people who were raped, or abused. If only one person became lesbian because of rape, and only ONE person became gay because of abuse, it would be wrong to prohibit the medical community from helping those two individuals.

It is the LAW that pretends that every LBGT-thinking minor does so freely, willingly, and without any possibility that their feelings may be due to an underlying cause that should be treated.

and it is the only case where that is true — because we can still freely treat a minor who thinks they are a dog. Why is a guy thinking he is a girl absolutely normal, but a guy thinking he is a dog a mental illness that should be treated?

People should be allowed to get treated for what they want to be treated for. If a person wants to NOT be gay, the state has no right to prevent them from getting treatment to change their feelings.

But if you are minor, the state has decided that taking away the parental rights of your parents is more important than allowing you to exercise your liberty to be what want to be. At least if you are currently having gay thoughts, the state says that you cannot get help in changing those thoughts.


16 posted on 09/04/2013 11:34:29 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Albion Wilde
One needn't assume all reparative therapy is sadistic. Contemporary practitioners use insightful compassion to ease out the deep traumas and anxieties that often accompany orientation disorders. In some if not many cases, anxiety disorders are not merely the symptom, but the root cause of orientation confusion. *** You got that right. I know from experience.
17 posted on 09/04/2013 1:29:05 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: Vaduz
People are born gay. Yet there is no firm scientific basis for this conclusion.

Your 'conclusion' is a matter of faith NOT science. There is a reason that the homosexual disorder was treated as a mental disorder versus physical disorder. The same reason that don't ask don't tell existed. There is NO physical evidence supporting the 'gay person' theory. As such, HOW IN THE HELL can one prove these 'gay people' are born that way? LMAO!

'gay' is identified one way only, by disordered sexual BEHAVIOR, those who choose to engage in the activity and or those who are predisposed to the activity, cause UNKNOWN.

18 posted on 09/04/2013 2:28:56 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: CharlesWayneCT; Mrs. Don-o
No matter that you are a girl who feels repulsed by men because you were raped, or a man who feels emasculated because of beatings by your father. Nope, we can’t help you — you must instead suffer thinking that you are built wrong.

What if you're a woman who naturally conceives and bears a child when she has intercourse with a healthy man of her species? Nope, we can't help you. You must instead suffer thinking that you are build wrong.

Let the fire fall.

19 posted on 09/04/2013 3:06:29 PM PDT by Tax-chick (One drink away from telling everyone what I really think.)
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To: babble-on; CharlesWayneCT
for you to proffer the hypothesis that all lesbianism is caused by rape and all male homosexuality is caused by child abuse is stupid.

He merely used those concepts as illustrations of what may have happened to individuals; if you want to use words like "stupid" when you defend the "born that way" theory, you should fight on those same grounds -- if you're so smart, provide some reputable studies that support your position. Reputable.

Lots of luck finding them. GBLTs have been searching for the gay gene for the past 40 years -- nothing yet.

20 posted on 09/04/2013 3:30:42 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: babble-on
Arguing that sex-change operations for the tiny population of so-called transgendered people may be unhelpful does nothing to prove that behavior modification strategies for the large population of gay people are good.

You do realize that 'transgendered' is a state of mind and that surgery is far more dangerous that behavioral therapy?

P.S. SCIENCE does not deal with 'good', that is a morality question. Science does deal with effectiveness RE: how effective behavior modification is. EVIDENTLY, the law banning treatments has no basis on science and is matter of faith, it is a leftist morality based IMPOSITION.

21 posted on 09/04/2013 4:02:43 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Albion Wilde
One needn't assume all reparative therapy is sadistic. Contemporary practitioners use insightful compassion to ease out the deep traumas and anxieties that often accompany orientation disorders. In some if not many cases, anxiety disorders are not merely the symptom, but the root cause of orientation confusion.

Interesting.

I can't say I know very much about gender disorders or their treatment. However, I recall several years ago seeing an HBO show highlighting lesbians (not my choice, but I was rooming with a couple of other women who wanted to watch it). It utterly convinced me that the lesbians were that way at least partially, if not completely, because they are scared of normal relationships. If they truly find other women desirable, then why do they engage in so much play-acting, with one pretending to be a man?

Your assessment fits right in with my previous observations.

22 posted on 09/04/2013 4:16:32 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Tax-chick

“Natural”? “Healthy”? What are you, a hater?


23 posted on 09/04/2013 4:56:13 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Department of Redundancy Department.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Hater, hater, I’m a hater. Hater of what? I forgot.


24 posted on 09/04/2013 6:46:48 PM PDT by Tax-chick (One drink away from telling everyone what I really think.)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: babble-on
And fag-haters have been trying to “cure” people for even longer, and it’s never worked.

'fag-haters' has nothing to do with the topic. Your attempt at an emotional appeal to support the GOV banning of behavioral therapy for those suffering from the homosexual disorder is simply more leftist propaganda.

26 posted on 09/05/2013 9:01:24 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: DBeers

Conclusion’ is a matter of science being born gay is like being born a felon.


27 posted on 09/05/2013 9:34:19 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: Albion Wilde

Indeed


28 posted on 09/05/2013 9:35:17 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: Vaduz
Even if it could be proven that people are born predisposed and or oriented toward or against certain behaviors that does not do away with two natural realities.

1. People can choose or not choose to engage in activities.

2. Society can and does justly discriminate in support of or opposition to certain activities.

29 posted on 09/05/2013 10:46:18 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Vaduz
P.S. RE: 1. People can choose or not choose to engage in activities.

I will add that the behavioral science based therapy is all about modifying behavior and has nothing to do with CURING the cause, much like alcoholics anonymous.

Alcoholics break away from alcohol by changing behavior, removing and or replacing habits NOT urges.

30 posted on 09/05/2013 10:53:05 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: babble-on
And fag-haters have been trying to “cure” people for even longer, and it’s never worked.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. It is not hatred of a person who thinks they are gay that leads a therapist to try to help; it is love for their profession and for the integrity of the body, heart and mind of the client.

It isn't fair to blame the people who try to help those who don't want to be helped, especially since the gay lobby has litigiously silenced, denounced and shunned any ex-gays who want to share their experience of recovery.

People who want to let go of the trauma or neglect that led them to homosexuality can succeed only if they are committed to some hard work, recognize they must gradually let go of some deeply-entrenched habits, exercise some control who and what they spend time with, and pick themselves up and keep going after a slip-up.

If they can't make this kind of a commitment to long-term goals instead of immediate gratification, lots of luck with "gay marriage" or "gay parenting."

31 posted on 09/05/2013 11:03:39 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: rhema

The APA isn’t a professional organization. It is a politicized organization and has been since the early 70s


32 posted on 09/06/2013 10:05:45 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: DBeers

Agree


33 posted on 09/07/2013 9:37:51 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: DBeers

Agree choose or not choose is the answer.


34 posted on 09/07/2013 9:40:06 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: rhema

Bump


35 posted on 09/07/2013 9:47:26 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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