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Citing costs, IBM to move retirees off health plan
http://www.foxnews.com ^ | september 7, 2013

Posted on 09/07/2013 7:49:24 AM PDT by lowbridge

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To: NautiNurse

The dirty secret is that corporate America is unhappy with Indian labor but they like the salary levels.

How that Obamacare working for you?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2177476/posts
IBM Offers To Move Laid Off Workers To India
http://www.informationweek.com/news/management/outsourcing/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=213000389&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_News ^ | Feb. 2, 2009 | Paul McDougall

“IBM has established Project Match to help you locate potential job opportunities in growth markets where your skills are in demand,” IBM says in an internal notice on the initiative. “Should you accept a position in one of these countries, IBM offers financial assistance to offset moving costs, provides immigration support, such as visa assistance, and other support to help ease the transition of an international move.” The document states that the program is limited to “satisfactory performers who have been notified of separation from IBM U.S. or Canada and are willing to work on local terms and conditions.” The latter indicates that workers will be paid according to prevailing norms in the countries to which they relocate. In many cases, that could be substantially less than what they earned in North America.

IBM has laid off more than 4,000 workers in the United States since the beginning of January, according to an employee group. The company has confirmed layoffs but won’t comment on specific numbers.

A spokesman for Alliance@IBM, a workers’ group that’s affiliated with the Communications Workers of America but which does not have official union status at IBM, slammed the program. “IBM is not only offshoring IBM U.S. jobs but they want employees to offshore themselves through Project Match,” said the spokesman.

An IBM spokesman said the program shouldn’t be seen in that light. “It’s more of a vehicle for people who want to expand their life experience by working somewhere else,” said the spokesman. “A lot of people want to work in India.”


51 posted on 09/07/2013 1:55:31 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: a fool in paradise
hell yes I say screw them. I got a degree...

Ooookay...

You got a degree. That's nice. Did IBM reimburse you for that degree? Does Big Blue have competition these days? How do you suggest IBM remain competitive worldwide?

It's rather difficult to get past your seething anger at "corporate fat cats" to engage in a rational discussion.

52 posted on 09/07/2013 2:08:25 PM PDT by NautiNurse (Obama sends U.S. Marines to pick up his dog & basketballs. Benghazi? Nope.)
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To: lowbridge

This will be the norm with our without Obamacare. Health insurance costs have been going up and up and up for decades. U.S. corporations just can’t carry the cost anymore. They never got into business to provide healthcare for their workers.


53 posted on 09/07/2013 2:09:44 PM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Presbyterian Reporter
IBM’s decision has everything to do with ObamaCare.

Most likely IBM supported Obamacare so it could push people out into the "markets." Big Business and Big Government go hand in hand.

54 posted on 09/07/2013 2:14:34 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: dfwgator
Decouple medical insurance from employment, and I suspect a lot of age discrimination also goes away.

Excellent point.

55 posted on 09/07/2013 2:47:25 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: Presbyterian Reporter
Medical insurance premiums were rising long before ObamaCare was ever implemented. There's evidence of this all over the place.

Corporations cannot and should not be obligated to pay for 26 year old’s who are not insuring themselves, but one example.

That's a valid point, but how much does the coverage for a 26 year-old cost compared to the coverage for someone who is 65 or older? I'll bet the cost for the 26 year-old is intangible in the context of the full insurance plan the company was offering before.

I also contend that it makes no sense for corporations to pay for insurance for people who they don't even employ anymore.

56 posted on 09/07/2013 2:51:44 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: Fee
I suspect many of IBMs competitors have no such burdens to deal with because they are much newer companies that don't have the same legacy costs as IBM.

Look at the auto industry, for example. A company like GM was saddled with enormous pension and health care liabilities that many of its competitors -- including those building cars right here in the U.S. -- don't have to deal with simply because they don't offer their employees defined-benefit pensions or lifetime medical insurance coverage.

57 posted on 09/07/2013 2:54:30 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: Don Corleone

The problem is — the exchanges are another step on the road to serfdom. After the exchanges fail, government will step in as an angel of mercy (or death panels) and rescue the sick and feeble. Everyone will be given free health care with most doctors and nurses working for the government. This was the plan (or hope) of the socialists all along. They knew what they were doing.


58 posted on 09/07/2013 2:58:36 PM PDT by heye2monn
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To: saganite
You can't criticize companies for making "bad decisions" when it comes to medical insurance. Medical insurance is always getting more expensive because advances in medicine and medical care result in more complex and expensive treatments. How can a company like IBM make long-ranging decisions about retiree insurance coverage when nobody has any clue about what will constitute "standard medical care" in four or five years -- let alone in four or five decades?
59 posted on 09/07/2013 2:59:15 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: lowbridge
When companies like IBM first promised lifetime health insurance for retirees, health care was much less expensive than it is today. If you got cancer, you usually died. If you had high blood pressure or high cholesterol, you usually had a heart attack and died. There was a legend among employees that most retirees died within two years of retiring.

There is no way corporations could have anticipated the advances in health care that allow retirees to live so much longer but through expensive procedures and medications. I know someone who worked there 30 years, then retired at age 60 with a 2/3 salary pension for life and free health care for life.

During retirement they have had hip replacements, cancer surgery and chemo/radiation, pacemaker, eye surgery, and are on a dozen prescriptions, some cheap but most expensive. They are now 82 and could likely live another ten years. Meaning they will have been retired for more years than they worked there, drawing 2/3 salary plus health care while contributing nothing to the company for the last 30 years.

This is simply unsustainable, and IBM like SS, can look forward to thousands of baby boomers retiring every day. It is very unfortunate for those who were promised the moon in retirement by their employers and may not have a Plan B. It is a lesson for those who are younger, to know that employer promises cannot be relied on and you must plan to provide for yourself.

As for IBM offering to transfer IBMers to India at their expense, I see nothing wrong with that. The world is changing. At least they are offering to let you keep your job instead of just having you train your Indian replacement then laying you off, which is the alternative. They are in business to make a profit and benefit their shareholders, not as an altruistic social agency.

Contrast this with public employee unions who just extort more taxes out of you and cut services if they don't get them, hiding the fact that the extra taxes are not necessarily paying for current services but for hefty retiree obligations. They have no incentive to lower costs and will hold public services hostage until you pay up.

60 posted on 09/07/2013 3:08:16 PM PDT by informavoracious (We're being "punished" with Stanley Ann's baby. Obamacare: shovel-ready healthcare.)
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To: RightGeek

Medicare Advantage is being slowly eliminated. How do you supplement Medicare Advantage?


61 posted on 09/07/2013 3:53:52 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (The Presidency is broken.)
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To: lowbridge
THANK GOD the taxpeasants can afford to pay for the Golden Retirement Health Care packages for the poor, underpaid & abused .gov retirees...

Did you know that some .gov retirees only make 25-30 dollars an hour at 58 years old, for walking out to the mailbox twice a month?

FOR SHAME, .gov haters!!!

62 posted on 09/07/2013 4:16:31 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Gay State Conservative; dforest
But Osama Obama & Pals needn’t worry.They’ve made sure that *they’re* exempt.

They have to pass it to see what's in it - for the peasants.

Our Owners in CONgress - not so much.

63 posted on 09/07/2013 4:25:52 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Mike Darancette

I should have been more clear - it is Medicare Advantage or Medicare Supplement. The original Wall Street Journal Article is better than the Fox News summary, but you have to access it through Google to avoid the paywall. Just Google IBM Medicare and it should show up.


64 posted on 09/07/2013 5:04:17 PM PDT by RightGeek (FUBO and the donkey you rode in on)
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To: Fee

Think logically about what you are saying. Are you saying that YOU are the one whom should set the price for a drug company’s research efforts, or for a physician’s treatment? Any proposal to mandate “affordable” healthcare necessarily entails theft of the MD’s time at gunpoint.


65 posted on 09/07/2013 5:25:43 PM PDT by dinodino
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To: lowbridge
Next, the death panels...

Are you listening 65+ers? Obama wants your SS and your death tax, and by golly he’ll squeeze it out of you if he has to!

66 posted on 09/07/2013 6:12:52 PM PDT by 444Flyer (How long O LORD? Habakkuk 2;Isaiah 55)
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To: dinodino

I never said mandate. But too many assume medicine can be modeled completely on free markets. Free market works if the consumer has the option of not buying the product if the prices are too high. A drug that keeps you alive doesn’t fit that model. You simply cannot say no and die.


67 posted on 09/07/2013 7:49:25 PM PDT by Fee
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To: Fee

Ya know what? There is no “moral” obligation to provide healthcare. People don’t do things for free. There’s always the profit motivation. If there isn’t, then, it’s always some a$$hole deciding what’s “fair”. The market should decide, rather than some commie apparatchik (and, ultimately, whomever thinks they’re the ones to decide, are commie apparatchiks).


68 posted on 09/07/2013 8:58:17 PM PDT by farlander (Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum. Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
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To: Fee

It’s not immoral to die. It’s immoral to steal and force people to hand over resources (work/money/time) for someone else’s concept of “fairness” and “morality”.


69 posted on 09/07/2013 9:00:05 PM PDT by farlander (Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum. Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
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To: lowbridge

My Father is on Medicare and has Secure Horizons as his Supplemental Carrier. He pays no monthly Premium for it.


70 posted on 09/07/2013 9:12:14 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Liberal Democrats = Communists. RINO Republicans = Communist Sympathizers.)
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To: Alberta's Child

So you support obamacare. Got it.


71 posted on 09/07/2013 10:22:33 PM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: Kickass Conservative

Your father pays for Medicare, I’ll bet.


72 posted on 09/07/2013 11:14:59 PM PDT by LurkingSince1943 (Former War Criminal)
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To: Fee

Ok, I die without food. How is food any different? Do you want the government to control food?


73 posted on 09/08/2013 3:49:30 AM PDT by dinodino
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To: Fee

Utter and complete bullpucky. My dad was a physician who regularly gave his services away to the poor and those who could not pay. But he wasn’t going to do that for every low life who thought they deserved a free ride. That sounds like what you want. I don’t think any advocate of a healthcare system where the doctor and patient have a relationship oppose catastrophic coverage. But don’t for a minute sit there and expect the same health coverage as someone who is willing to any more. You will get what you need, nothing more, if you’re not willing to pay for something.


74 posted on 09/08/2013 4:05:02 AM PDT by Solson (The Voters stole the election! And the establishment wants it back.)
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To: saganite
So you support obamacare. Got it.

No, I don't. Get that straight.

75 posted on 09/08/2013 5:29:46 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: Fee
You can't have it both ways. You are either a free person or you're not.

If you find that you have to rely on some kind of medical procedure or pharmaceutical product to stay alive and healthy, and you don't have the financial means to pay for these products or services yourself, then you really are at the mercy of those who make those products or perform those services.

While it might seem harsh to apply basic principles of economics to matters of life and death, there's no getting around the fact that these principles apply even in these cases -- perhaps especially in these cases.

I couldn't invent a life-saving drug if you gave me 50 years and unlimited financial resources to work on it, so there's no way in hell I'm going to dictate financial terms to someone else who can do it.

76 posted on 09/08/2013 8:54:11 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: LurkingSince1943

That he does. Of course it’s just a deduction from his Social Security, but nobody seems to notice.

Kind of like Tax Withholding when people think they aren’t paying Taxes because they get a Refund.


77 posted on 09/08/2013 12:08:08 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Liberal Democrats = Communists. RINO Republicans = Communist Sympathizers.)
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To: NautiNurse

When they want the labor (and I worked for a competitor of IBM) and they want to lay you off then relocate you to the third world to pay you less than half of your old salary, I’d say they are cooking the books.

Gates and others lied to Congress when they said they needed more foreign workers (and the ability to import billions of dollars of compiled/manufactured code without paying any import duty) because there was insufficient talent here.

Last I knew, the Orwellian pigs at the top of the companies were profiteering off of their false meme.

I am not saying there should be a mandatory salary. They are saying there aren’t the people who can do it here then they are trying to ship people OVER THERE to do the work.

Lies. Damn lies.


78 posted on 09/08/2013 5:39:35 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: a fool in paradise

I agree with you that there is shady (my words) stuff going on. For example, IBM had massive layoffs in the developed countries (U.S., Australia, Canada, Italy, etc.) in June/July — only to turn around and rehire many as contractors. I can understand periodic cuts to get rid of “dead wood,” but at this point, there is almost no one left to even set up employee laptops, much less sell them ...

Also, the entire hardware division (STG) was furloughed for a week (last week and others, the week before). They did get 1/3 of their pay, I believe. Only one person/friend I know got to stay and skip the furlough (he takes angry customer calls). Everyone else was told to stay home and they were banned from checking their laptops. Of course when they got back, they were in trouble for not responding to management emails. (The same managers who furloughed them.)

Seems shaky to me, unfortunately.


79 posted on 09/08/2013 6:55:33 PM PDT by Borax Queen
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