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Poll: Republicans embracing libertarian priorities
Politico ^ | 9/11/13 | JAMES HOHMANN

Posted on 09/11/2013 1:56:48 PM PDT by wmfights

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To: ClaytonP

I’ve never heard of true social conservatives pushing the alleged “Big Government for Jesus” (which sounds like liberal propaganda). True social conservatives are big believers in the First Amendment, not in establishing a state religion. Perhaps neoconservatives do believe in “BG4J” as you term it.


51 posted on 09/11/2013 2:45:32 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: BarnacleCenturion

libertarians love misusing those quotes just like RINO’s pushing amnesty who ignore that he thought it had been mistake when he did it.


52 posted on 09/11/2013 2:45:58 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Orangedog

I know you’re not lying to me. I know the real intent of libertarians with their agenda.

So you must be lying to youself.

(See tagline)


53 posted on 09/11/2013 2:47:07 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: GeronL
Libertarians are totally in favor of gay marriage and hate “Bible Thumpers”

I've run into this. I'm hoping that if they give it some thought about where are moral code comes from they might revise their thinking.

54 posted on 09/11/2013 2:48:32 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: GeronL
With libertarians wanting state sanctioned homo marriage, how is that staying out of our lives?

Uh, no. Marriage is a religious institution, not a government function. You need to quit believing what people on radio owned and operated by GOP-e insiders tell you.

Libertarians are the scum of the earth

We love you, too...

55 posted on 09/11/2013 2:49:06 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: wmfights

That’s my point. We don’t need government to tell us murder, theft and pedophilia is wrong.


56 posted on 09/11/2013 2:52:10 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: Orangedog
I think you would find most libertarians wouldn't support the state having the power to force someone to do business with anyone.

I hope you're right and I hope they can see that these issues are not easily resolved with "bumper sticker" answers. For example in your comment above would libertarians disagree with it being illegal to provide services to someone because of their race?

57 posted on 09/11/2013 2:52:45 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: Orangedog

I don’t listen to GOPe insiders, get off the DOPe.

You and the homofascists have the same goals, face it. You are their allies in destroying the institution of marriage and the basis and foundation of civilization.

Of course libertarianism cannot ever be civilized.


58 posted on 09/11/2013 2:52:54 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Responsibility2nd
I know the real intent of libertarians with their agenda.

Wait...there was an agenda setting meeting and I wasn't invited?! Well I'll have to issue a good old fashioned harrumph(!) with someone! (seriously, have you stopped to think that the people selling you this "secret agenda" crap are the ones who have a vested interest in keeping you in their sandbox?)

59 posted on 09/11/2013 2:53:06 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: GeronL

“Libertarians are totally in favor of gay marriage and hate “Bible Thumpers”

You are delusional.

You can either be a statist or a libertarian.

Statists think government should regulate marriage. Libertarians think government should stay out of it.

The statists have prevailed so far and the law of the land now is that a man can marry another man.

You obviously don’t get it. If government gets involved in social issues it’s going to push godless, socialist ‘values’ on everyone. Christians are now a minority in this country.


60 posted on 09/11/2013 2:55:38 PM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: Orangedog; GeronL
Marriage is a religious institution, not a government function.

Does the state have a role in protecting the innocent and promoting the best environment for a child to mature into a healthy contributing member of society?

I would argue the answer is YES!

61 posted on 09/11/2013 2:56:12 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: Responsibility2nd

>> Today - libertarians and conservatives are at polar opposites for what we want America to be.

Not true. I know many pro life libertarians that don’t support the govt’s meddling in marriage. There are many here at FR.

There are also many self-described conservative that don’t seem to mind the police state.


62 posted on 09/11/2013 2:57:26 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Orangedog

“GOP-e insiders”? You mean those who are in favor of gay marriage?

I have never heard of any libertarians opposed to gay civil unions. Rather in favor of the idea. What libertarians do you know of that are opposed to it?


63 posted on 09/11/2013 2:57:37 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Hugin
We don’t need government to tell us murder, theft and pedophilia is wrong.

We do need govt to ensure these wrongs are kept to a minimum.

64 posted on 09/11/2013 2:57:45 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: GeronL
You and the homofascists have the same goals, face it. You are their allies in destroying the institution of marriage and the basis and foundation of civilization.

Gee, us favoring government having zero authority whatsoever over the institution of marriage is somehow going to translate into the government putting you in jail if you don't back a cake for a homosexual "marriage"? Riggggghhhhttt....

You favor the government, the organization that can't even fix potholes in roads, having supreme power over marriage, what it means, who can commit to it, etc., and then you cry when the marxists get all that yummy power that you shouldn't have given the government in the first place.

65 posted on 09/11/2013 2:58:16 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: wmfights

I have to concur with that.


66 posted on 09/11/2013 2:58:32 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Thank you.


67 posted on 09/11/2013 3:00:45 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: Gene Eric

Not true. I know many pro life libertarians that don’t support the govt’s meddling in marriage. There are many here at FR.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Correct. They don’t support the “govt’s meddling in marriage”. So what is their suggestion?

To further destroy the sanctity of marriage by removing ALL aspects of marriage from our laws.

In other words - they want to burn down the city in order to save it.

Libertarians are NUTZ!


68 posted on 09/11/2013 3:01:44 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: wmfights
Does the state have a role in protecting the innocent and promoting the best environment for a child to mature into a healthy contributing member of society?

The maximum role of government should be the protection of life, liberty and property. It's shouldn't be used to force everyone to live in NerfWorld, where all the sharp edges have been rounded off for your own good. If you want your children to be healthy, contributing members of society, then you may want to do a little hands on parenting and not count on being able to free-range them.

69 posted on 09/11/2013 3:02:37 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Orangedog

I don’t favor government “controlling” marriage. I favor society not having a government giving affirmation to perverts and abnormal mental patients as “normal”


70 posted on 09/11/2013 3:05:03 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Olog-hai
I’ve never heard of true social conservatives pushing the alleged “Big Government for Jesus” (which sounds like liberal propaganda). True social conservatives are big believers in the First Amendment, not in establishing a state religion. Perhaps neoconservatives do believe in “BG4J” as you term it.

Some examples:

Bush and his faith-based initiatives (expansion of welfare)

The Internet Gambling ban, which aside from the bailouts, was one of the only legislative accomplishment of Bush's 2nd term.

Alabama Governor Bob Riley's "Jesus Tax".

The encouragement of more welfare for single mothers in the name of "preventing abortions"

Those are just a few.

71 posted on 09/11/2013 3:05:36 PM PDT by ClaytonP
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To: wmfights
We do need govt to ensure these wrongs are kept to a minimum.

Nobody is suggesting otherwise. libertarians are not anarchists. Those crimes deprive others of their rights, so it's proper for government to punish them.

72 posted on 09/11/2013 3:06:18 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: Quickgun

>Live and let live, so to speak.<

Yes. Obviously, that does not include a military chaplain being forbidden to say a Christian prayer, as some progressives desire.

The Founders wanted to prevent the State from formulating its own religion, to the detriment of all others. Modern liberals want to elevate their interpretation of religion, and ban both Christianity and Judaism, especially, from the public square.


73 posted on 09/11/2013 3:08:25 PM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: Olog-hai
“GOP-e insiders”? You mean those who are in favor of gay marriage?

More like the ones who run Clear Channel and Cumulus.

I have never heard of any libertarians opposed to gay civil unions. Rather in favor of the idea. What libertarians do you know of that are opposed to it?

Funny, the ones I know don't care. If someone wants to play married with his lawnmower and find a preacher/priest/rabbi/whatever to "marry" them, good for them. It doesn't mean anyone from the government should come along and put a gun to my head or yours and force us to recognize or subsidize said "marriage."

74 posted on 09/11/2013 3:08:53 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Orangedog

You’re still lying to yourself.

For thousands of years societies, countries and civilizations have thrived based on marriages and strongly healthy families. As goes the American Family - so goes America.

So why? Why do you endorse the liberal position of weakening marriage in our laws?


75 posted on 09/11/2013 3:09:02 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: GeronL
I don’t favor government “controlling” marriage. I favor society not having a government giving affirmation to perverts and abnormal mental patients as “normal”

See...there are some things we agree on! Now if we can just get you give up on having government give affirmation to "normal" marriages, we'll really make progress!

76 posted on 09/11/2013 3:11:34 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Orangedog

society cannot survive on libertarian ideals, they are anti-civilization


77 posted on 09/11/2013 3:14:12 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Responsibility2nd

Marriage started having problems when clowns started using government to “protect” it. I’m sure you’re familiar with how marriage licensing came into practice, right? Then they decided to start writing it into the tax code and probate laws. Those benefits were extracted by force from single people. Lots of favors government did for your institution. Then since it was in charge of sanctioning it, it decided it wanted the power to destroy it. Behold, no-fault divorce laws (extra points if you can name the first governor to sign it into law). Then came the courts and the Bar into making a growth industry out of destroying those families...all with the blessings of the government. You’re a little late to the game if you think libertarians did this to what’s left of your vaunted institution.


78 posted on 09/11/2013 3:20:47 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: wmfights

“Does the state have a role in protecting the innocent and promoting the best environment for a child to mature into a healthy contributing member of society?

I would argue the answer is YES! “

But you are not the president. The country elected a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage statist and now every christian is paying for government subsidized abortions via planned parenthood and very soon churches will be forced to perform gay marriages.

Every Christian in this country should be a libertarian. Government will never uphold Christian values. It will always work towards destroying them.


79 posted on 09/11/2013 3:21:00 PM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: wmfights
I think most libertarians will argue that the human heart is good.

I'd be willing to take the other side of that wager at fairly steep odds. The premise of keeping government small is that men are inherently corruptible, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's the folks who want to give government the power to rule over us who do so on the presumption that the men doing the ruling will be good.

80 posted on 09/11/2013 3:21:00 PM PDT by thoughtomator 2.0
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To: GeronL

We’re anti-authoritarian. I know...freedom scares you.


81 posted on 09/11/2013 3:22:10 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Putting aside the labels, how far are liberty minded people willing to go in terms of repealing law; repeal that doesn’t put youth at risk?


82 posted on 09/11/2013 3:23:57 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: GeronL

I agree when the ideals are wholly represented by the Libertarian Party’s platform.


83 posted on 09/11/2013 3:27:02 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Orangedog

Oh. I see. Marriage is some governmental sanctioned attack on “single people”. All you can see from your poor bitter vantage point is the negative consequences of liberal attacks on marriages.

Well, my little liberal pal, you libertarians are just too eager to drive that nail into the coffin with YOUR OWN attacks on marriage.

And YOU are the reason why fag marriages are being sanctioned in state after state and even in our military - all because you libs failed to take a stand FOR traditional marriages.

You wanted government to butt out of marriages? Look at what you got.


84 posted on 09/11/2013 3:27:26 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

>> As goes the American Family - so goes America.

I agree.


85 posted on 09/11/2013 3:27:50 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Gene Eric

Anti-civilization party


86 posted on 09/11/2013 3:28:24 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: wmfights

87 posted on 09/11/2013 3:30:36 PM PDT by Bikkuri (Molon Labe)
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To: Responsibility2nd
So. What does sticking to principles and keeping promises have to do with libertarian priorities? Another case where the headline and the article do not match.

Didn't make any sense to either. I would think embracing libertarianism IS compromising.
88 posted on 09/11/2013 3:31:23 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: Responsibility2nd
You wanted government to butt out of marriages? Look at what you got.

Ummm, still waiting to for government to butt out of marriages. Make that happen then ask me to take a look.

89 posted on 09/11/2013 3:34:40 PM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: ClaytonP

I’m trying to find conservatives in that list.

I also cannot find any connection between Bob Riley and the phrase “Jesus tax”. Except in the liberal publication “Christianity Today”.


90 posted on 09/11/2013 3:34:41 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Orangedog

There’s a difference between government and authoritarianism. Just like there is a difference between government and anarchy. Are you accusing the Founding Fathers of being authoritarians?


91 posted on 09/11/2013 3:36:11 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Orangedog

Evasive answer.


92 posted on 09/11/2013 3:37:41 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Gene Eric

Thank you. Ther are some who would argue that is jingoistic. A pie in the sky - feel good platitude.

And libs especially want to deny 190 years of American history and claim that government must not - can not legislate morality. Especially when it comes to marriage. And libs - like Orange dog - argue that when a government does try and involve itself in marriage or some other moral value - that we will only fail.

How short-sighted they are.

All we conservatives want is a return to the America we grew up in. A time - before LBJ - when anti-sodomy laws were the norm for all 50 states. When no-fault divorce was unheard of. When freedom, faith and family meant something.

But Noooo....

Libs here at at FR and in our society want us to butt out of moral values in our laws.

Apparantly they LIKE the New Age LBJ brought us and that which Obama is forcing down our throats.


93 posted on 09/11/2013 3:39:39 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: wmfights

Embracing libertarian principles everywhere but Washington.


94 posted on 09/11/2013 3:42:30 PM PDT by popdonnelly (The right to self-defense is older than the Constitution.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Far from jingoistic. It’s the foundation of who we are. And since this battle is far from over, I won’t say “were”.


95 posted on 09/11/2013 3:44:48 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: wmfights
My experience has been that they have never given it much thought. Often if you can get a discussion going you can get them thinking about it.

Your "experience" is a lousy teacher, then. One of the foundational points of libertarianism is that it isn't possible, unless there is a strong, ethical and moral framework binding citizens together. This framework, made up of (traditional) families, churches, and civic organizations is a necessary per-requisite for individual liberty. As a libertarian, I can safely say that man is not inherently good. That is why strong societal judgement against unacceptable behavior is necessary. Contrary to the strawman argument that you apparently believe, the difference between you and libertarians (although not Libertarians) doesn't lie there. The difference is that you look to government to enforce that societal code. I look to churches, families, peers, neighbors, and local civic groups. My contention, is that by placing that kind of power in the hands of the government, it is more likely to backfire, and be used against traditional values. The only long-term protector of traditional values can be local, traditional, and oriented around religion.

Oh, and I don't need you to "get me thinking". (I am assuming you advocate an activist role for government, with respect to social issues -- if I am under the wrong impression, please ignore). Somebody needs to get you thinking, and to realize that all of that power you advocate in the hands of the government, will someday be used against what you believe in.
96 posted on 09/11/2013 3:46:44 PM PDT by jjsheridan5 (never again: done with the Establishment Republicans forever)
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To: jjsheridan5

You nailed it. Great post.


97 posted on 09/11/2013 3:52:48 PM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: wmfights

Goldwater was a libertarian Republican.

Reagan was a libertarian Republican.

libertarian populism, with religious liberty as a key component, could propel another 1980 election.


98 posted on 09/11/2013 3:54:28 PM PDT by magellan
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To: Responsibility2nd
The gop/e need to grow the party. I think that some of them now realize that these illegal mexicans will be more of a parasitic drain rather than a productive source of money. The gop/e are progressives at heart. Some of the libertarian ideals lean leftward and the gop/e think that they can gain members for the party from some liberal democrats... ones that are not all the way hard core commie like obama and company.

They also think that they can make us compromise on some of our Foundational tenets. Notice that they backhand “social agenda” and that is a code for religion, being pro life, and anti homosexual marriage etc. I belong to GOD and not the republican party. I am not alone.

99 posted on 09/11/2013 3:56:59 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Responsibility2nd
All we conservatives want is a return to the America we grew up in.

You aren't going to get what you want. Period.

/johnny

100 posted on 09/11/2013 4:13:06 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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