Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pope: Don't have to believe in God to go the Heaven
WND ^ | 16 hours ago

Posted on 09/12/2013 1:29:41 PM PDT by BenLurkin

In comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation, Pope Francis has written a long, open letter to the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, Eugenio Scalfari, stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.

Responding to a list of questions published in the paper by Mr Scalfari, who is not a Roman Catholic, Francis wrote: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: afterlife; atheism; atheists; catholic; conscience; francis; heaven; pope; popefrancis; salvation; vatican
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-126 next last
I respectfully request the Holy Father to re-read scripture.
1 posted on 09/12/2013 1:29:41 PM PDT by BenLurkin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I’m going to keep ‘blievin just in case.


2 posted on 09/12/2013 1:30:49 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
3 posted on 09/12/2013 1:31:29 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

YOU’RE BEING PLAYED BY THE MEDIA.

BenLurkin, the media intentionally misquoted the Pope.

I’m not a Catholic, but I will say that the pope did not express what the headline reads.


4 posted on 09/12/2013 1:31:30 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
What did he actually say? I'm not sure I'd trust the media, to report that accurately.

There were three times when Jesus was asked how to have eternal life.

The first time was when the rich young ruler came to him. Jesus quoted several of the commandments. The ruler said "I've kept those from my youth". Jesus said sell all your goods and follow me. The rich young ruler went away sorrowful. Effectively even thought the rich young ruler had lived an extremely good life by human standards, Jesus had focused him on "Have no other God before me". And he failed.

The second time a lawyer asked. Jesus replied what's written in the law?" The Lawyer replied "Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus said, "Do this and you will live." The lawyer "seeking to justify himself" asked "who is my neighbor?". Which led to the parable of the good Samaritan. Again Jesus answered obey the law, but in such a way that it showed the seeker his faults.

The third time was Nicodemus. To Nicodemus, Jesus said, "You must be born again."

There are two ways to get to heaven. Never sin, or be forgiven. Scripture tells us none are righteous, nobody has done or will do the first, except for Jesus.

5 posted on 09/12/2013 1:31:40 PM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: This Just In
The article is written as if it is a quote.

You'd be wise to check it out.

6 posted on 09/12/2013 1:34:11 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: This Just In

Well, if he did say “Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience,” then he is dead wrong.

The conscience of the natural man is depraved and cannot be set as a benchmark for “sin.”


7 posted on 09/12/2013 1:34:15 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

The headline is obviously inflammatory, but the quote in the article says nothing of the sort. The supplied quote does not even address the issue of who goes to heaven.


8 posted on 09/12/2013 1:35:17 PM PDT by keats5 (Not all of us are hypnotized.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I trust Scripture and not a religious leader. So I will stick with being a Born Again, Spirit Filled believer who happens to do good works because I believe we should do what is pleasing to the Father. And that is what Jesus did when He was on earth
Amen
and Freegards
LEX


9 posted on 09/12/2013 1:35:56 PM PDT by lexington minuteman 1775
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I thought purgatory was the destination of nice unbelievers.


10 posted on 09/12/2013 1:36:09 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
You know better than to rely upon the MSM for matters regarding the Church. Puhleeese.

As Father Z said, Newspapers are not where the Church deepens doctrine or changes disciplines.

11 posted on 09/12/2013 1:36:29 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
Oh, so it's cool to worship the The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Viva Pastafarianism! /s
12 posted on 09/12/2013 1:36:55 PM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN; BenLurkin
What did he actually say? I'm not sure I'd trust the media, to report that accurately.

An English translation of the Holy Father's letter is here: Pope Francis' Letter to the Founder of "La Repubblica" Italian Newspaper.

Also see post #11, here.

13 posted on 09/12/2013 1:38:28 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

WTH?


14 posted on 09/12/2013 1:39:04 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vendome; BenLurkin

See post #11 and #13.


15 posted on 09/12/2013 1:40:33 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: CMB_polarization

IF you had tweeted the Pope when he asked everyone to, you could have got a “Get Out Of Purgatory Free” card. Now, you’ll have to go the old fashioned way and buy an indulgence. You gotta stay up to date on this stuff to find the bargains.


16 posted on 09/12/2013 1:40:57 PM PDT by BipolarBob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

You’re absolutely correct concerning our sin nature. If the Pope is referring to a conscience of conviction and repentance through the work of the Holy Spirit, than this would be true. If not, he’s, as you stated, “dead wrong”.


17 posted on 09/12/2013 1:41:30 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: This Just In

You beat me to it. It is so predictable. Pope opens mouth and press makes up false claims to attack him.


18 posted on 09/12/2013 1:41:53 PM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin; All

At the time that Jesus was walked on the Earth, and preached in the temples, Jesus did NOT rebuke the Jews for the Old Testament Books contained in the Catholic Bible, which Martin Luther later found objectionable.

Maccabees, in particular, clearly shows that God intends for us to “pray for the dead”. Under Catholic doctrine, I can see where someone who had led a good, just life but had not accepted God, could be given that chance. Purgatory would allow for such a situation.

I find it hard to believe that those who have not had an opportunity to know Christ would be sent straight to Hell.

My God is better than that.


19 posted on 09/12/2013 1:41:56 PM PDT by Kansas58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Ok . .OK OK! W’eve got the Antichrist and False Prophet . . but where is the Beast?


20 posted on 09/12/2013 1:42:09 PM PDT by 2nd Amendment (Proud member of the 48% . . giver not a taker)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
That's certainly not what I was taught.Perhaps this comment is in some way connected to Saint Thomas.
21 posted on 09/12/2013 1:42:46 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (If Obama Had A City It Would Look Like Detroit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Eggzackly.

One of the things that struck me most strongly in conversations with Mormon missionaries is their belief that if you sincerely pray to God for direction, you’ll get a warm, fuzzy feeling from the Holy Spirit in your tummy that will direct you to do the right thing.

But I think the Bible is very clear that we cannot trust out conscience to know what is right. We are too expert at deceiving ourselves. Conscience must be guided by God’s Word, not by our feeeellliiinnnngggs.


22 posted on 09/12/2013 1:43:11 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Mark Steyn: "In the Middle East, the enemy of our enemy is also our enemy.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: 2nd Amendment

We all know where the beast is.


23 posted on 09/12/2013 1:43:40 PM PDT by b4its2late (A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: knarf

Thanks for the post, knarf. I replied to BenLurkin on post #17 in order to clarify.


24 posted on 09/12/2013 1:43:50 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
From the article the Pope writes:

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart.”

This is very different than what was stated in the headline. The Pope said if someone shows true contrition they will be forgiven for their sins. Even those who say they don’t believe in God commit sins if they don’t follow their conscience and act in a way that is evil.

The MSM gets almost everything wrong. They are trying to portray Pope Francis as a leftist. The article says as much.

25 posted on 09/12/2013 1:45:37 PM PDT by detective
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lexington minuteman 1775
I'm with you 100% if I can make a small change in what you wrote: I trust Scripture and not what the lame stream media claim was said by a religious leader.

The LSM are so godless they have no clue.

26 posted on 09/12/2013 1:45:45 PM PDT by upchuck (The nobama regime: a string of omnishambles that stretches, seemingly, to infinity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

Well, just to clarify, plain talk; if the Pope inferred this sentiment, he is completely wrong. But it is clear to me that the media intentionally misquoted him.


27 posted on 09/12/2013 1:45:55 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

Those are not Holy Scripture, but rather, Catholic texts, if you will. Christ does not preach praying for the dead.


28 posted on 09/12/2013 1:47:44 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience. “Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

I don't know what the pope is trying to say (from the headline) -- but from this quote he says you have to go to God with a sincere and contrite heart (we agree) ... Ergo, the person must believe in God -- otherwise said person would not go to God (with a sincere and contrite heart).

Seems like the headline and this quote don't mesh together.

29 posted on 09/12/2013 1:47:58 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
Well in a way I can see it. Just because there are people that have never heard of Yashua aren't condemned but are judged on their conscience. Up until almost the Middle Ages when Europeans started out investigating the world nobody outside of Europe/the Middle East ever heard of Him. I'm talking people of the Pacific islands, Japan, China, North and South America. Are those people condemned? Then too, people before Yashua came on the scene. Lots of nations never heard of the Hebrew G-d nor of Yashua.

I don't want to cause a controversy her or argue anything, just saying.

30 posted on 09/12/2013 1:48:34 PM PDT by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

Boy O’ boy are you smart, can I have your autograph? Please?


31 posted on 09/12/2013 1:48:39 PM PDT by fatboy (This protestant will have no part in the ecumenical movement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

“My God is better than that.”

Your god? Created in your own image perhaps?
If God sends people to Hell for unbelief, who are you to criticize Him? Where were you when he made the Heavens and Earth?


32 posted on 09/12/2013 1:48:53 PM PDT by AppyPappy (Obama: What did I not know and when did I not know it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I’m going to respectfully suggest you have been sand bagged.


33 posted on 09/12/2013 1:50:34 PM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy

Sounds like you’ve been reading Job. :^)

(BTW,...one of my favorite books in the Bible)


34 posted on 09/12/2013 1:50:42 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

The in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit and a person’s conscience are two very different things.

I don’t know what Mormons believe on the subject.


35 posted on 09/12/2013 1:51:08 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
I respectfully request the Holy Father to re-read scripture.

"Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:5-8) comes to mind. I'm sure there are others.

36 posted on 09/12/2013 1:52:08 PM PDT by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin; All
... stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.

With all due respect to the Pope, given his stance on same-sex sexual relationships if I understand that correctly, such people are following their consciences after all, it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't seem to understand major problems with unrepentant sin.

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. --Proverbs 14:12, KJV

37 posted on 09/12/2013 1:53:13 PM PDT by Amendment10
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
The statement attributed to the Catholic Pontiff is a strange thing for a Christian leader to say, unscriptural as well: "I am the way, the truth, and the light and no man comes to the Father except by me." Jesus of Nazereth
38 posted on 09/12/2013 1:53:43 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2nd Amendment

39 posted on 09/12/2013 1:54:16 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Jeremiah 17:9

New International Version (NIV)

9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

THE POPE is wrong, and needs to reread scripture with the intent of God changing His heart, what would be worse than claiming to be a Christian buy not really knowing Him (a warning to us all)?


40 posted on 09/12/2013 1:55:10 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Is John Boehner the Neville Chamberlain of American Politics?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kansas58

That’s the plain teaching of scripture, FRiend. The Bible makes it clear on this point.

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”

That’s why TODAY is the day of salvation.

“For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”

Today is the day of salvation because there are no second chances. In the first chapter of Romans Paul made it clear that people are without an excuse for their unbelief, to wit:

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.


41 posted on 09/12/2013 1:56:06 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: .45 Long Colt

Good post.


42 posted on 09/12/2013 1:57:06 PM PDT by This Just In
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: JSDude1

Thank you. I was looking for that.

It’s been a long while since I helped the kids with their AWANA verses.


43 posted on 09/12/2013 1:58:05 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
"La Repubblica"

Is that Italian for "FreeRepublic"?
44 posted on 09/12/2013 1:58:06 PM PDT by Sopater (Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? - Matthew 20:15a)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I’m a little vague on it myself, but I do know that a person can very easily deceive himself that his own personal desires are really God’s indwelling Spirit prompting him.


45 posted on 09/12/2013 1:58:31 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Mark Steyn: "In the Middle East, the enemy of our enemy is also our enemy.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
So tell me why someone who doesn't believe in God would have any desire to be where He is for eternity? Seems a little strange to me. Next thing you know, atheists will perform the Eucharist. What?
46 posted on 09/12/2013 2:01:37 PM PDT by cashless (Obama told us he would side with Muslims if the political winds shifted in an ugly direction. Ready?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
It is too bad this so-called "pope" doesn't know his Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ made it perfectly clear:

"I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE, NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." (John 14:6 NASB Emphasis added)

"And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. ‘Therefore I said to you that YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; for UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT I AM HE (i.e., the Messiah, the Savior, the "lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world), YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS.” (John 8:23 - 24 NASB Emphasis added).

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might BE SAVED THROUGH HIM.

“HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM IS NOT JUDGED; HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE HAS BEEN JUDGED ALREADY BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED HAS BEEN JUDGED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD (John 3:16-18 NASB Emphasis added).

Shame this so-called "pope" is leading untold millions to hell as a direct result of his heretical teaching.

47 posted on 09/12/2013 2:02:08 PM PDT by Jmouse007 (Deliver us from this evil, in Jesus name, amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I’m calling misquote on this one.

My bishop, whom I know VERY well, sometimes worries that non-Catholic Christians do not go to heaven.


48 posted on 09/12/2013 2:04:16 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: El Cid

I read it the same way you did. I agree with you. My guess is the media is evil and misquoting him on purpose.


49 posted on 09/12/2013 2:04:49 PM PDT by wattsgnu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

At first glance, I blew this story off. Could not conceive the pope would say something like this.

Is this a true story? If so, he needs to straighten this out.


50 posted on 09/12/2013 2:05:51 PM PDT by servantboy777
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-126 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson