Skip to comments.Pope: Don't have to believe in God to go the Heaven
Posted on 09/12/2013 1:29:41 PM PDT by BenLurkin
In comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation, Pope Francis has written a long, open letter to the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, Eugenio Scalfari, stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.
Responding to a list of questions published in the paper by Mr Scalfari, who is not a Roman Catholic, Francis wrote: You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who dont believe and who dont seek the faith. I start by saying and this is the fundamental thing that Gods mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.
Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
I’m going to keep ‘blievin just in case.
YOU’RE BEING PLAYED BY THE MEDIA.
BenLurkin, the media intentionally misquoted the Pope.
I’m not a Catholic, but I will say that the pope did not express what the headline reads.
There were three times when Jesus was asked how to have eternal life.
The first time was when the rich young ruler came to him. Jesus quoted several of the commandments. The ruler said "I've kept those from my youth". Jesus said sell all your goods and follow me. The rich young ruler went away sorrowful. Effectively even thought the rich young ruler had lived an extremely good life by human standards, Jesus had focused him on "Have no other God before me". And he failed.
The second time a lawyer asked. Jesus replied what's written in the law?" The Lawyer replied "Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus said, "Do this and you will live." The lawyer "seeking to justify himself" asked "who is my neighbor?". Which led to the parable of the good Samaritan. Again Jesus answered obey the law, but in such a way that it showed the seeker his faults.
The third time was Nicodemus. To Nicodemus, Jesus said, "You must be born again."
There are two ways to get to heaven. Never sin, or be forgiven. Scripture tells us none are righteous, nobody has done or will do the first, except for Jesus.
You'd be wise to check it out.
Well, if he did say Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience, then he is dead wrong.
The conscience of the natural man is depraved and cannot be set as a benchmark for “sin.”
The headline is obviously inflammatory, but the quote in the article says nothing of the sort. The supplied quote does not even address the issue of who goes to heaven.
I trust Scripture and not a religious leader. So I will stick with being a Born Again, Spirit Filled believer who happens to do good works because I believe we should do what is pleasing to the Father. And that is what Jesus did when He was on earth
I thought purgatory was the destination of nice unbelievers.
An English translation of the Holy Father's letter is here: Pope Francis' Letter to the Founder of "La Repubblica" Italian Newspaper.
Also see post #11, here.
See post #11 and #13.
IF you had tweeted the Pope when he asked everyone to, you could have got a “Get Out Of Purgatory Free” card. Now, you’ll have to go the old fashioned way and buy an indulgence. You gotta stay up to date on this stuff to find the bargains.
You’re absolutely correct concerning our sin nature. If the Pope is referring to a conscience of conviction and repentance through the work of the Holy Spirit, than this would be true. If not, he’s, as you stated, “dead wrong”.
You beat me to it. It is so predictable. Pope opens mouth and press makes up false claims to attack him.
At the time that Jesus was walked on the Earth, and preached in the temples, Jesus did NOT rebuke the Jews for the Old Testament Books contained in the Catholic Bible, which Martin Luther later found objectionable.
Maccabees, in particular, clearly shows that God intends for us to “pray for the dead”. Under Catholic doctrine, I can see where someone who had led a good, just life but had not accepted God, could be given that chance. Purgatory would allow for such a situation.
I find it hard to believe that those who have not had an opportunity to know Christ would be sent straight to Hell.
My God is better than that.
Ok . .OK OK! W’eve got the Antichrist and False Prophet . . but where is the Beast?
One of the things that struck me most strongly in conversations with Mormon missionaries is their belief that if you sincerely pray to God for direction, you’ll get a warm, fuzzy feeling from the Holy Spirit in your tummy that will direct you to do the right thing.
But I think the Bible is very clear that we cannot trust out conscience to know what is right. We are too expert at deceiving ourselves. Conscience must be guided by God’s Word, not by our feeeellliiinnnngggs.
We all know where the beast is.
Thanks for the post, knarf. I replied to BenLurkin on post #17 in order to clarify.
You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who dont believe and who dont seek the faith. I start by saying and this is the fundamental thing that Gods mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart.”
This is very different than what was stated in the headline. The Pope said if someone shows true contrition they will be forgiven for their sins. Even those who say they don’t believe in God commit sins if they don’t follow their conscience and act in a way that is evil.
The MSM gets almost everything wrong. They are trying to portray Pope Francis as a leftist. The article says as much.
The LSM are so godless they have no clue.
Well, just to clarify, plain talk; if the Pope inferred this sentiment, he is completely wrong. But it is clear to me that the media intentionally misquoted him.
Those are not Holy Scripture, but rather, Catholic texts, if you will. Christ does not preach praying for the dead.
I don't know what the pope is trying to say (from the headline) -- but from this quote he says you have to go to God with a sincere and contrite heart (we agree) ... Ergo, the person must believe in God -- otherwise said person would not go to God (with a sincere and contrite heart).
Seems like the headline and this quote don't mesh together.
I don't want to cause a controversy her or argue anything, just saying.
Boy O’ boy are you smart, can I have your autograph? Please?
“My God is better than that.”
Your god? Created in your own image perhaps?
If God sends people to Hell for unbelief, who are you to criticize Him? Where were you when he made the Heavens and Earth?
I’m going to respectfully suggest you have been sand bagged.
Sounds like you’ve been reading Job. :^)
(BTW,...one of my favorite books in the Bible)
The in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit and a person’s conscience are two very different things.
I don’t know what Mormons believe on the subject.
"Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to Gods law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:5-8) comes to mind. I'm sure there are others.
With all due respect to the Pope, given his stance on same-sex sexual relationships if I understand that correctly, such people are following their consciences after all, it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't seem to understand major problems with unrepentant sin.
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. --Proverbs 14:12, KJV
New International Version (NIV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?
THE POPE is wrong, and needs to reread scripture with the intent of God changing His heart, what would be worse than claiming to be a Christian buy not really knowing Him (a warning to us all)?
That’s the plain teaching of scripture, FRiend. The Bible makes it clear on this point.
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”
That’s why TODAY is the day of salvation.
“For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”
Today is the day of salvation because there are no second chances. In the first chapter of Romans Paul made it clear that people are without an excuse for their unbelief, to wit:
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world Gods invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.
Thank you. I was looking for that.
It’s been a long while since I helped the kids with their AWANA verses.
I’m a little vague on it myself, but I do know that a person can very easily deceive himself that his own personal desires are really God’s indwelling Spirit prompting him.
"I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE, NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." (John 14:6 NASB Emphasis added)
"And He was saying to them, You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; for UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT I AM HE (i.e., the Messiah, the Savior, the "lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world), YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS. (John 8:23 - 24 NASB Emphasis added).
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might BE SAVED THROUGH HIM.
HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM IS NOT JUDGED; HE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE HAS BEEN JUDGED ALREADY BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED HAS BEEN JUDGED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD (John 3:16-18 NASB Emphasis added).
Shame this so-called "pope" is leading untold millions to hell as a direct result of his heretical teaching.
I’m calling misquote on this one.
My bishop, whom I know VERY well, sometimes worries that non-Catholic Christians do not go to heaven.
I read it the same way you did. I agree with you. My guess is the media is evil and misquoting him on purpose.
At first glance, I blew this story off. Could not conceive the pope would say something like this.
Is this a true story? If so, he needs to straighten this out.