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WI:Rifles near Appleton farmers' market lead to police, debate
jsonline.com ^ | 12 September, 2013 | Bruce Vielmetti

Posted on 09/12/2013 2:33:00 PM PDT by marktwain

Two guys walking to Appleton's downtown farmers' market on Saturday — while carrying AR-15 rifles on their shoulders — swiftly attracted some gunpoint attention and handcuffs from Appleton police.

Whether that's surprising depends on where you stand about Second Amendment rights. One of the men happened to record the encounter, now making the rounds on the Internet, where at least some gun rights advocates are outraged by the police response.

The men, Charles Branstrom, 28, and Ross Bauman, 22, also were wearing holstered handguns. About six minutes after they are stopped, one officer sees Branstrom's camera, confiscates it and attempts to turn it off, but stops only the video. The device continues recording audio of police officers for about 45 minutes.

Ultimately, police release both men without charges or tickets.

"In a post Aurora-Newtown environment, it's a reckless and irresponsible stunt to strut around in public with an assault-style weapon and think police should assume you're well-intentioned," Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn said Thursday, referring to mass shooting incidents in Colorado and Connecticut.

"It's just absurd," Flynn said. "This has nothing to do with the Second Amendment. These characters and those who support them should be ashamed of themselves."

Gun rights advocates think the police acted inappropriately.

"I would never blame police for following up on 'man with a gun' calls, but they still have to behave within the limits of the law and abide by people's constitutional rights," said Nik Clark, president of Wisconsin Carry, Inc., a gun rights group.

"I believe the police were acting outside of their legal authority when they pointed guns at the individuals and involuntarily detained them,' Clark said.

(Excerpt) Read more at jsonline.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; constitution; donutwatch; guncontrol; opencarry; secondamendment; wi
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It appears that Vielmetti got the full names of the second amendment activists from the Appleton police. I do not see where else he would get them from.

The MSM was clearly scooped on this story, which appeared in freerepublic four days ago.

1 posted on 09/12/2013 2:33:00 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Unlawful arrest and the it would cost the police department about $10k each here in VA.


2 posted on 09/12/2013 2:35:47 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: marktwain

Where’s the video?


3 posted on 09/12/2013 2:36:30 PM PDT by expat2
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To: expat2

Cops apparently not educated about citizens’ rights.


4 posted on 09/12/2013 2:41:07 PM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: expat2

Just do a google search you well find it the full audio is much better then the video.


5 posted on 09/12/2013 2:41:27 PM PDT by riverrunner
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To: expat2
Video is on YouTube, much to the chagrin of the officer that said the video wouldn't be going on YouTube after they confiscated the camera.

I don't have a link to the video/audio, but the other thread on this event does.

/johnny

6 posted on 09/12/2013 2:41:34 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: marktwain

Good for them. Open carry is not my cup of tea, but I’m glad others choose to test the envelope. That’s how we keep our freedom: “if you don’t patrol it, you don’t own it.”


7 posted on 09/12/2013 2:43:57 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: marktwain

The homosexual lobby has spent money and time pushing sodomy and sexual deviance to normalize the idea of homosexuality as acceptable yet a couple of men openly carrying firearms in public is considered a nuisance and a public safety issue. Unreal.

Real Americans and specifically conservatives need to make a concerted effort to normalize open carry. It used to be considered criminal and uncivilized to carry concealed. Now it’s preferred to keep the leftists from flooding emergency numbers. We need open carry across the nation. We are not a fearful people and show be proud of our rights and our heritage.


8 posted on 09/12/2013 2:45:11 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: marktwain

Since they were so intent on not being documented during the event, it would be interesting to know what lies the cops told their superiors and/or the news media before they knew that they failed to stop the recording.


9 posted on 09/12/2013 2:59:10 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: rarestia

I’m a gun owner. However, I understand how average sheeple might be intimidated by guys walking around a farmers market packing an AR-15.

I am not interested in making unarmed people feel intimidated. It is not kind......Concealed carry solves that. It is not kind......Concealed carry solves that.

Would these two guys like it if I paraded down their street where their children were playing with my AK strapped to my back?


10 posted on 09/12/2013 3:00:33 PM PDT by Fred911 (YOU GET WHAT YOU ACCEPT)
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To: JRandomFreeper; All

This link has links to the video and audio files:

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/09/wiappleton-officers-violate-rights-of.html


11 posted on 09/12/2013 3:05:09 PM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: Fred911; All

“Would these two guys like it if I paraded down their street where their children were playing with my AK strapped to my back?”

I expect they would approve.

I know that I would appreciate it, and likely strike up a conversation.


12 posted on 09/12/2013 3:07:40 PM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain
"I get what you guys are trying to do....But when you grow up a little bit and you're a parent and have kids at an event like this and you see someone walk through with guns strapped to their back, your first inclination is going to be, 'Alright, what's this guy up to? Is my child going to be safe?'"

When I see armed people, my first thought is often: Now we are all a little safer. I personally think both that "shall not be infringed" means what it says and that it's a good thing when people exercise that God-given RKBA (and "bear arms" means we can carry them in public). It will be nice to see the change in attitudes as more people adjust to "scary" guns in the hands of good people and not just criminals.

13 posted on 09/12/2013 3:11:13 PM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: Fred911
Then the sheeple need to be conditioned to understand that someone lawfully exersizing their constitutional rights is a good thing. First, the cops need to be conditioned. That's what these guys are doing.

I'd be fine with you walking down my street with an AK on your back.

/johnny

14 posted on 09/12/2013 3:14:02 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Fred911
I understand how average sheeple might be intimidated by guys walking around a farmers market packing an AR-15.

5 min. of video looking at a brick wall with the moron being questioned by the police.

I don't care who you are but If I see you walking down a street carrying concealed with an AR-15 over your shoulder, I'm going to watch you and probably call the cops.

I too carry concealed but I'm certainly not stupid enough to sling an AR over my shoulder just to make a point.........

This moron is a disgrace to all law abiding 2nd Amendment supporters and his actions should be ridiculed..........

15 posted on 09/12/2013 3:23:08 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco

:: This moron is a disgrace to all law abiding 2nd Amendment supporters and his actions should be ridiculed ::

Divide and conquer.


16 posted on 09/12/2013 3:31:05 PM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: Hot Tabasco
"I don't care who you are but If I see you walking down a street carrying concealed with an AR-15 over your shoulder, I'm going to watch you and probably call the cops."

OK how would you know if he is carrying concealed?

Two things here are evident. He isn't the moron. You are.

17 posted on 09/12/2013 3:33:32 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mad Dawgg

If I decided to cary a weapon (handgun), I would certainly NOT advertise that I had one. If someone has a CCW permit, they can easily carry but still not advertise. I understand why the police stopped and detained them, one never knows who has those guns and what their intention might be. Error on the side of caution is fine with me.


18 posted on 09/12/2013 3:36:01 PM PDT by DaveA37
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To: JRandomFreeper

Just curious if you’d be Ok with the gangs walking around with high cap semi auto rifles? It would be their right after all.
What exactly do these cowboys think is going to happen? Are they really that scared?


19 posted on 09/12/2013 3:37:22 PM PDT by refermech
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To: Progov
"I understand why the police stopped and detained them..."

Either you believe in the 2nd Amendment or you don't.

You can't be a "little bit pregnant" and you can't infringe just a little bit on my right to bear arms.

Its an all or nothing prospect. And the Founding Fathers meant it to be.

20 posted on 09/12/2013 3:39:44 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: refermech
As long as they are lawfully carrying, I don't have a problem with ANYONE walking around armed.

It's not about being scared. It's about exersizing a constitutional right, and normalizing it in the eyes of the public.

/johnny

21 posted on 09/12/2013 3:40:12 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Two queries:

1. Please cite the mass shooting that began with a sighting of a man with a slung rifle and/or holstered weapons.

2. Please cite a mass shooting that occurred with the presence of one or more people with openly-holstered/slung weapons.

I get your point, but there’s 2 extremes: No Guns or Guns.

Guns sometimes WILL be visible. To not accept that is to admit compliance with propaganda for the other extreme and supporters of the other extreme make no compromise except for ‘no guns’ (a gun at home, unloaded, in a case/safe is equivalent to ‘no gun’).

That is unacceptable, IMHO.


22 posted on 09/12/2013 3:41:21 PM PDT by logi_cal869
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To: Hot Tabasco
I too carry concealed but I'm certainly not stupid enough to sling an AR over my shoulder just to make a point.........

Me neither. I've got an M1A (I despise the AR platform).

23 posted on 09/12/2013 3:41:51 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Don't think for a minute that this excuse for a President has America's best interest in mind.)
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To: Progov
Error on the side of caution is fine with me.

And to hell with the law and the Constitution. I see your point.

/johnny

24 posted on 09/12/2013 3:42:01 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Mad Dawgg
OK how would you know if he is carrying concealed?

I look at the profile under the shirt.......And this guy's admission of same.

25 posted on 09/12/2013 3:46:09 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Mad Dawgg
Either you believe in the 2nd Amendment or you don't.

All of us do but you don't influence the opinions of those who don't by throwing it into their faces....and those are the folks who will ultimately take your right away.

26 posted on 09/12/2013 3:51:36 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: logi_cal869
I get your point,

Then don't bother me with the rest, I've defended those arguments ad nauseum all my life........

27 posted on 09/12/2013 3:54:12 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco
"All of us do but you don't influence the opinions of those who don't by throwing it into their faces....and those are the folks who will ultimately take your right away."

Wow, "Irony much"...?

The whole idea of the 2nd Amendment is to arm the citizens so the government CAN"T take their rights away.

And hiding in the shadows because YOU are afraid you might offend someone with your evil gun is exactly the type of people we don't need in the USA.

Try Cuba, it sounds right up your alley.

28 posted on 09/12/2013 3:56:17 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: JRandomFreeper

But, beyond the fact that it is their right to carry, displaying these guns really serves only one purpose. It’s a political statement. Grandstanding really. Even in the old west very few people carried guns. If it’s not a political statement, then
They must feel threatened. You can not reach any other conclusion. I don’t see open carry of rifles as being accepted by the general public. Not after the massacres we have witnessed. I’ll be getting a concealed license soon. The element of surprise will be on my side. For these guys? Not so much.


29 posted on 09/12/2013 3:58:33 PM PDT by refermech
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To: JRandomFreeper

so it’s ok to legally conceal carry, but not ok to legally open carry. is it ok for me to carry a 10-.22? or how about a Yugo 24/47? or a muzzle loader? where would you draw the line? where would you have the government draw the line? is it ok to conceal carry a .41 rem mag? or a .40 cal? or a bond derringer?
you guys are just like the government, wanting to impose your beliefs, will, upon others.

Not posted to you /johnny, u r just handy. :-)


30 posted on 09/12/2013 3:59:44 PM PDT by Rannug
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To: Mad Dawgg
Either you believe in the 2nd Amendment or you don't.

*************************

Agreed.

31 posted on 09/12/2013 4:01:25 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: refermech

As long as the bangers aren’t prohibited persons, I’m perfectly groovy with them or anyone else being strapped overtly or covertly.

As for your scared characterization...C’mon, scared? Really?


32 posted on 09/12/2013 4:04:47 PM PDT by Sylvester McMonkey McBean
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To: Mad Dawgg
Try Cuba, it sounds right up your alley.

Look toward the stars and Uranus, your head's up there already......

33 posted on 09/12/2013 4:05:16 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: refermech
It's their right and it's lawful. They don't need to justify themselves to you.

/johnny

34 posted on 09/12/2013 4:07:33 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Sylvester McMonkey McBean

Either that or it’s deer season!


35 posted on 09/12/2013 4:08:10 PM PDT by refermech
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To: Hot Tabasco

Why the contradiction?


36 posted on 09/12/2013 4:12:20 PM PDT by logi_cal869
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To: JRandomFreeper

Right and it’s the cops job to stop them and see what they are up to. After that happens a couple hundred times I’ll imagine these guys will decide it’s just not worth the hassle, not to mention lugging around all that weight. I think it’s called cutting off your nose to spite your face. And it’s their right to do so.


37 posted on 09/12/2013 4:13:29 PM PDT by refermech
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To: Fred911

Your argument is kind of absurd, Fred, if you don’t mind my saying. Are you arguing that these two men, by virtue of the exercise of their right to keep and bear arms, would be scared of you if you had an AK strapped to your back?

Quite frankly, sir, I’d want to shake your hand, and I would point you out to my child as an example of someone exercising a right no different than someone preaching scripture in a public park or a political opinion in the editorial of a newspaper.

Free men, law-abiding men, do not conceal their weapons. Men who are interested in liberty do not carry a weapon in a pocket or under their shirt. Criminals who wish to do someone harm do not walk into a movie theater with an AR15 strapped to their backs, they stow the weapon in a vehicle parked outside the emergency exit, leave the theater halfway through the previews, and come back to shoot up the place.

Do you react similarly when you see cop in the supermarket or at the mall? Does your child recoil at the sight of a detective carrying a pistol on his or her hip in WalMart? Just because someone has a badge doesn’t make them a good or virtuous person. Likewise, a man with a gun with the open and honest displaying of the weapon without a badge does not make that man a criminal or a ne’er do well.

This is the sort of conditioning I’m talking about. Not even 50 years ago, firearms were so commonplace as to be normal. Concealed carry had to be passed as law across the nation, because it was previously considered illegal and uncivilized. Due to the limp-wristed weenies on the left and a few generations of indoctrination telling kids that guns are bad and only kill people, we now have a society that goes into a fit if someone is seen carrying a weapon but does not have a badge or uniform of some type. That’s NOT what the Second amendment and our right to bear arms is all about, and I’m disgusted that we’ve fallen that far in civil discourse to allow it.


38 posted on 09/12/2013 4:15:43 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: refermech

You’re right. There can be no other possible reasons.


39 posted on 09/12/2013 4:17:47 PM PDT by Sylvester McMonkey McBean
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To: logi_cal869

I am glad so many people like sitting in back of the bus and not eating at a lunch counter/S

As long as I don’t offend any body with my rights I am good to go/S

As long as the muslins don’t know what church I go to they well not kill me/S


40 posted on 09/12/2013 4:18:26 PM PDT by riverrunner
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To: rarestia

Excellent post.


41 posted on 09/12/2013 4:18:32 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: refermech

Even in the old west very few people carried guns. If it’s not a political statement, then
They must feel threatened. You can not reach any other conclusion. I don’t see open carry of rifles as being accepted by the general public. Not after the massacres we have witnessed. I’ll be getting a concealed license soon. The element of surprise will be on my side. For these guys? Not so much.


Warped logic because it is based on non factual information.

Until only a few years ago, it was an every day thing to see pickups in town with more than one rifle or shotgun or both in a gun rack over the back window.

I still have mine hanging in my farm tool room. Makes a nice place to hang electrical cord, etc.

People thought nothing of it.

Farmers and hunters rarely were out of reach of a gun and when they went to town, it went with them.

And of course many of those hunters lived in town.

Kids went to school with guns in their vehicles so they could go hunting immediately after school or in some cases early in the morning on the way to school.

I know. I was one of them.

The hysterics over guns is something relatively new, brought on by the hysterical press, Marxist educators and weenies.

Don’t be one of them.


42 posted on 09/12/2013 4:18:59 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: refermech
The police can't just stop people, handcuff them, confiscate their property, and put them in police cars when they want to. There has to be a valid reason. It's called the 4th Amendment.

The city is going to be paying out a settlement for the unconstitutional acts of the police.

/johnny

43 posted on 09/12/2013 4:19:24 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: refermech
Even in the old west very few people carried guns.

You couldn't be more wrong in this statement, sir. I would suggest you read up on frontier American life and esp. the lives of men and women in the upper midwest and southwest. It was considered criminal to conceal your sidearm, and traveling men including postal riders, train conductors, and ship captains had a complement of firearms on their conveyances to assure safe passages.

The fact that you indicated you have yet to get a concealed license tells me that you are either a young man or have recently converted to an interest in gun culture. I urge you to read up on your responsibilities and to not just understand the law but understand the history of American culture with firearms. You've been corrupted by the media and academic establishments in this country and world to believe something that is very much not true.

44 posted on 09/12/2013 4:21:39 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Fred911

We need so many people walking around like this that people get used to it.


45 posted on 09/12/2013 4:21:51 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Pollster1

Unless they are police officers, then I first look to see if there are any dogs around. If not, I breathe a little easier.


46 posted on 09/12/2013 4:22:32 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: old curmudgeon

Same here. Just twenty plus years ago we had guns in our cars in the school parking lot to go hunting after school. Hell, our HS and several others in the area all had shooting teams! We had kids in wood shop making stocks for guns.

How far we’ve fallen. :(


47 posted on 09/12/2013 4:24:43 PM PDT by Sylvester McMonkey McBean
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To: refermech

Well, you said “it is their right”.

SO it doesn’t matter if I like it or not. They can do it. And they should not be arrested for doing something they have a right to do, just because it makes others uncomfortable.

There was a time black people got arrested walking down a street because their very presence made white people uncomfortable. There are times when a guy with a bible gets harassed by police because he is too close to a muslim event.

We need to have open carry be so obvious, and so ubiquitous, that people get used to it.

Of course, I don’t actually buy your assumption that gangs have a right to have guns. My guess is that, being “gangs” indicates that they are probably underage, and most likely have a criminal record already. Otherwise, they are just clubs.


48 posted on 09/12/2013 4:26:44 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: refermech
Just curious if you’d be Ok with the gangs walking around with high cap semi auto rifles?

My answer: yes, I would be okay provided the following is true:

A) They are not felons, have no outstanding warrants, and are not brandishing the weapon but carrying it in a safe manner (muzzle down, not in "ready" position)

B) They are not in the presence of felons or in possession of any prohibited substances, are sober or otherwise unimpaired in their judgement, and are well regulated in their use of that weapon

Just because you don't like the idea of a perceived gangbanger in possession of a weapon, doesn't mean that person is immediately guilty of a crime or unlawfully carrying.

Free men, men who live a life of liberty, do not hide their rights under their shirts. You call these men cowboys, I call them free men. They have the right to openly carry, and they exercised that right. It's law enforcement and the citizens with whom they came in contact who need to be taught about the rights of free men.

49 posted on 09/12/2013 4:27:06 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Hot Tabasco

I completely agree that someone should be ridiculed.

However the someone is not the person on youtube.
It would be someone who calls a rifle slung over the shoulder concealed.
Or an unmitigated idiot who points out how law abiding they are...in contrast to someone else who also has broken no laws.

This isn’t the proper site to infer that another’s rights should be infinged upon because their exercise of those rights makes one emotionally uncomfortable. Emotional sentimentality is the entire reason we got saddled with hate crimes legislation.

If a person has unfounded fears they should seek help, not bleat them here expecting sympathy.


50 posted on 09/12/2013 4:27:32 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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