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Men carrying rifles to farmers market draw police, debate
Milwaukee J-S ^ | 13 sept 2013 | Bruce Vielmetti

Posted on 09/13/2013 5:17:26 AM PDT by rellimpank

Two men heading to Appleton's downtown farmers market with AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and handguns in holsters swiftly attracted the attention of police officers last weekend.

Now, they're attracting attention across the Internet, with some gun rights advocates expressing outrage that the pair were held at gunpoint and handcuffed, while others voice frustration at what they consider a foolish and dangerous stunt.

The men, Charles Branstrom, 27, and Ross Bauman, 22, ultimately were released without tickets or charges.

Branstrom recorded the confrontation with Appleton Police. About six minutes into the recording, one officer sees Branstrom's camera, confiscates it and attempts to turn it off — but stops only the video. The device continues recording audio for about 45 minutes.

Gun rights advocates think the police acted inappropriately.

"I would never blame police for following up on 'man with a gun' calls, but they still have to behave within the limits of the law and abide by people's constitutional rights," said Nik Clark, president of Wisconsin Carry, Inc., a gun rights group. "I believe the police were acting outside of their legal authority when they pointed guns at the individuals and involuntarily detained them."

Milwaukee's police chief ridiculed the pair.

(Excerpt) Read more at jsonline.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; rkba; secondamendment
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1 posted on 09/13/2013 5:17:27 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: afraidfortherepublic

—ping—


2 posted on 09/13/2013 5:18:23 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the media or government says about firearms or explosives--)
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To: rellimpank

Plenty of criticism for everyone involved. Yeah, they may have the legal right to open carry in a sheep pasture. That doesn’t make it a good idea. Way to set up a confrontation or a tragedy.

The cops need to learn the law and obey it regarding gun rights and video recording. As to the chief, how typically elitist for a senior employee of the people. Without looking at the video, I just know he wears the four stars of a General.

A pox on them.

TC


3 posted on 09/13/2013 5:23:43 AM PDT by Pentagon Leatherneck
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To: Pentagon Leatherneck
Those guys did a tremendous thing.

They kept recording, answered questions, stood on solid ground, were not disrespectful and the cops had NOwhere to go but ... "Have a nice day, guys."

LOVE it.

4 posted on 09/13/2013 5:25:49 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: rellimpank

This kind of crap will continue until some lame stream media type is arrested or detained for writing an unpopular article. No, on second thought, the relationship between the first and second Amendment would still be lost on the sheeple.


5 posted on 09/13/2013 5:26:39 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: rellimpank

Idiot cops who don’t know the law throwing their weight around.

My respect for law enforcement continues to decline.


6 posted on 09/13/2013 5:33:45 AM PDT by Arm_Bears (Refuse; Resist; Rebel; Revolt!)
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To: rellimpank
These guys were looking for trouble, and they found it.

I can understand why cops would be called (don't like it, but I understand that there are plenty of anti's out there...).

I can understand why the cops, after being called, might even stop and ask a few questions. After all, the only thing that they know is that someone has called them about some men with guns. A couple of polite questions - at the most - would quickly clear things up.

No, what I have a problem with is the following quotes:

An officer replies that while Wisconsin recognizes the right to openly carry guns in most public areas, "there's a point where that can be crossed and it becomes disorderly conduct" and that's what the officers are investigating.

and

"It's taking the Second Amendment a little too far," one officer says

There's no such thing as "taking a law a little too far". Either a behavior is legal, or its not. If it's legal to carry a gun, and the men are behaving legally with them (not threatening people, not acting aggressively, etc) .... then that's that. End of discussion.

Scary times we live in. 30 years ago, where I grew up, two men carrying guns wouldn't have been given a second look. Unless the cop wanted to admire what they were carrying.

7 posted on 09/13/2013 5:37:22 AM PDT by wbill
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To: knarf
City dwellers cannot understand open carry. They are fearful of that they do not understand. All over rural American folks with guns is a common sight. These brave individuals are attempting to cure ignorance with the application of knowledge.

Colorado is supposed to be an open carry state. Incidents like this are why nobody does.

8 posted on 09/13/2013 5:41:24 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: wbill

A Right not exercised can be easily taken.

A point made VERY well by these open carry demonstrations.

“Yeah, it’s your Right. We just don’t want you doing it.”

Very dangerous attitude for folks to adopt.


9 posted on 09/13/2013 5:42:25 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Dead Corpse
“Yeah, it’s your Right. We just don’t want you doing it.”

These few words sum it up perfect. It is the attitude of all nanny state busybodies both (R) and (D), on any subject.

10 posted on 09/13/2013 5:45:07 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: wbill
These guys were looking for trouble, and they found it.

As was pointed out on another thread about this incident, the queers have been so in-your-face about their activities, that they have won queer marriage in many places.

Gun owners need to be in-your-face about open carry, until it becomes normal and un-remarkable.

/johnny

11 posted on 09/13/2013 5:45:29 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: rellimpank
Lawsuits over similar arrests have led to at least four settlements in Wisconsin. In each case, those who were arrested received money.

Ah, is it possible they've identified the motive behind all this?

12 posted on 09/13/2013 5:47:40 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Mostly, those who won settlements insisted on training police officers to respect the rights of law abiding citizens. The money numbers have been small, but the education has been large.

/johnny

13 posted on 09/13/2013 5:49:44 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Arm_Bears
Idiot cops who don’t know the law throwing their weight around.

I don't know. Other than cuffing them and one or two of the comments I don't see a lot to criticize. They responded to a citizen complaint. I don't blame them for drawing on the two since they had no idea of their intent. They questioned them, checked things out, determined no crime had been committed, and let them go. They could have gotten a lot worse than that.

14 posted on 09/13/2013 5:52:51 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Pentagon Leatherneck; All

Here is the first article. The new media beat the MSM by four days. In fact the Milwaukee Journal links to this article:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3064760/posts

It is the clearest case of conspiracy to violate constitutional rights I have seen. Everything is on the tape. One officer brags about violating the First Amendment. The Seventh Circuit has ruled that taping police officers is a First Amendent right. He confiscates the video camera, and later brags to his buddies “This ain’t going on on YouTube!”


15 posted on 09/13/2013 5:54:54 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: JRandomFreeper

-—good point—


16 posted on 09/13/2013 5:56:29 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the media or government says about firearms or explosives--)
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To: marktwain
“This ain’t going on on YouTube!”

How wrong he was. LOL!

/johnny

17 posted on 09/13/2013 5:57:52 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: rellimpank

get used to it LEO community. THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.


18 posted on 09/13/2013 6:00:23 AM PDT by RC one
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To: DoodleDawg

That’s OK. After several million dollars have been handed out to gun rights activists, perhaps they’ll get the hint. I’m loving it.


19 posted on 09/13/2013 6:02:08 AM PDT by RC one
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To: marktwain

New York state passed a law (posted here a while back, thank you FR) making it a crime to ‘annoy’ a cop, specifically, to photograph them while they work. Screw that s***. Molon labe!


20 posted on 09/13/2013 6:05:00 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: DoodleDawg
They determined that they were not doing anything wrong in about the first 10 minutes.

They held them for 46 trying to come up with charges. They double and treble checked their status and their firearms trying to come up with something illegal.

The officer went way beyond making sure what they were doing.

21 posted on 09/13/2013 6:06:27 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: RC one
I'm only going to say this once... if, while legally carrying my loaded sidearm, anyone threw down on me with a drawn piece—and I do mean anyone, including poorly trained, statutorily-ignorant Lawficers responding to some hormonal public outcry—well, they'd be stacked down at the Coroner's like so much cordwood come morning, their lifeless coconuts bouncing off the sidewalks before they even finish clearing leather.

Deal with it. Stupidity can be had if they absolutely insist upon it, but it comes at a dear price, and it doesn't live long.

One reason Our Founders left us Our Guns is so we can resist Gummint encroaching on our rights. Another is so we can effectively rid society of mouth-breathing malcontents. Yet another is so we can annhialate any force that might try to rise up against us... like some boobs who don't know the Law, or when to keep their "Obamas" in their pants.

One last word... I'll be aiming for their groins. Those who survive will truly wish they hadn't.

Suck on THAT one, me Teddy-bill boyo.

Aaaaarrrrggghhhhhhh!

;-\

22 posted on 09/13/2013 6:21:03 AM PDT by Gargantua ("Da amber lamps. Bring dem..." LMFFAO!!!!)
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To: rellimpank

Didn’t the Wisconsin rule that open carry of firearms was constitutional?


23 posted on 09/13/2013 6:21:04 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.)
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To: Gargantua

There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven— time to give birth and a time to die; A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted. time to kill and a time to heal; A time to tear down and a time to build up.


24 posted on 09/13/2013 6:25:09 AM PDT by RC one
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To: JRandomFreeper

“This ain’t going on on YouTube!”

How wrong he was. LOL!

/johnny

I just wonder how much he is getting the pariah treatment by his buddies for bumbling it!


25 posted on 09/13/2013 6:34:34 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: Gargantua

It was good knowing you, gargantuan.

Is your future-widow provided for?


26 posted on 09/13/2013 6:36:30 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: Gargantua

“I’m only going to say this once... if, while legally carrying my loaded sidearm, anyone threw down on me with a drawn piece—and I do mean anyone, including poorly trained, statutorily-ignorant Lawficers responding to some hormonal public outcry—well, they’d be stacked down at the Coroner’s like so much cordwood come morning, their lifeless coconuts bouncing off the sidewalks before they even finish clearing leather.”

Yeah, get back to us on that...because you would be the first to make it happen.

This appears to be an emotional issue with you, but speaking on “poorly trained”, you should know that the person behind the eight ball on “drawing” is usually the one that gets shot down.

You want to go down in a hail of bullets, and be called a fool at the same time, keep living the fantasy for as long as you can.


27 posted on 09/13/2013 6:37:31 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: DoodleDawg

So, assuming you’re acting in a completely lawful manner, you would have no objections if a police officer cuffed you and/or drew and pointed his service weapon at you?


28 posted on 09/13/2013 6:44:38 AM PDT by Arm_Bears (Refuse; Resist; Rebel; Revolt!)
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To: rellimpank; Hunton Peck; Diana in Wisconsin; P from Sheb; Shady; DonkeyBonker; Wisconsinlady; ...

Rifles at Farmer’s Market ping

FReep Mail me if you want on, or off, this Wisconsin interest ping list


29 posted on 09/13/2013 6:52:26 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: knarf

“answered questions, stood on solid ground, were not disrespectful”

I only listened to the first few minutes of the video but also noticed their cool, calm demeanor...not an ounce of sarcasm, anger or derision towards the cops. Very low-key. Good for them.


30 posted on 09/13/2013 6:56:18 AM PDT by moovova
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To: rellimpank

Ping for later viewing.


31 posted on 09/13/2013 6:58:54 AM PDT by Bshaw (A nefarious deceit is upon us all!)
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To: wbill

I also have a problem with the cops confiscating the camera. It’s not illegal to have a camera. They shouldn’t touch it.


32 posted on 09/13/2013 7:02:01 AM PDT by bgill (This reply was mined before it was posted.)
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To: rellimpank

Only an idiot would be against these two patriots, it’s people like them that keep us free. What should happen next it 10,000 armed citizens should go to that same market this weekend....


33 posted on 09/13/2013 7:05:47 AM PDT by stockpirate (American taxpayer's are: New World Order slaves for the collective.)
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To: DoodleDawg

Turning off the recording device = “we’re going to do something we know is wrong”.

No other interpretation, LEOs. If you’re not violating rights, you have nothing to fear from a video camera.


34 posted on 09/13/2013 7:06:26 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: rellimpank

I vote foolish and dangerous stunt, given the mass killings of recent years.


35 posted on 09/13/2013 7:09:53 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Arm_Bears
So, assuming you’re acting in a completely lawful manner, you would have no objections if a police officer cuffed you and/or drew and pointed his service weapon at you?

If I'm a police officer and I'm responding to a call about a man with a gun then I'm going to pull on you until I can be sure you're not a threat to me. And why should anyone expect the police to act otherwise?

36 posted on 09/13/2013 7:14:54 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: MHGinTN
I vote foolish and dangerous stunt

Foolish and dangerous to lawfully exersize one's rights... ok.

/johnny

37 posted on 09/13/2013 7:18:06 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: wbill

“Scary times we live in. 30 years ago, where I grew up, two men carrying guns wouldn’t have been given a second look. Unless the cop wanted to admire what they were carrying.”
I remember trucks in my high school parking lot with rifles in the gun rack.


38 posted on 09/13/2013 7:24:09 AM PDT by spudville
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To: JRandomFreeper

Yeah, foolish to make a spectacle and cause folks in public places to fear you. But then you wouldn’t think of that, would you?


39 posted on 09/13/2013 7:26:06 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: rellimpank

I think it is kind of neat that these two acted like men. It’s good to see that - twentysomethings acting like adults.


40 posted on 09/13/2013 7:26:15 AM PDT by lesko
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To: rellimpank

I witnessed a couple shopping in a book store in Reno. Both had visible sidearms. Not one person in the store cared. No one freaked out.


41 posted on 09/13/2013 7:27:35 AM PDT by redreno (Americans don't go Gault. Americans go Postal.)
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To: MHGinTN
If some people are frightened by someone lawfully exersizing their rights, the people need to be educated. Apparently, the cops need to be educated, too. And that is happening, not just in this case, but all over America.

/johnny

42 posted on 09/13/2013 7:28:45 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

The children going to school in Israel get a sense of greater security from their teachers openly carrying their rifles and side arms. Here in America we have a media that wants the sheeple to be government dependents in all things, so only the government authorities are not seen as dangerous when they openly carry. You’re right, it is a matter of education. Sadly, our society is the product of the enemy, the media, and it is foolish to butt against those pricks at this time. In England, even the police do not carry openly, so ANY gun seen there is assumed not for show except when in the hands of SWAT dressing. I carry every day, everywhere I go, and the sheeple around me have no idea what I stand ready to do for them and myself. I prefer it that way, until the sheeple cease to be sheeple on a grand scale, not in foolish acts of showoffery.


43 posted on 09/13/2013 7:39:53 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
The way to normalize open carry is to do exactly what these guys did. First, get the cops trained to not hassle lawfully carrying citizens. That will happen with the lawsuits, as it already has in parts of the country.

The people will only become desensitized to open carry by people carrying openly. And this is working all over America. This isn't the only instance of open carry teething problems.

Face it, the queers now have queer marriage because they were in-your-face about their activities.

Open carry can do the same, and is a much more honorable goal.

/johnny

44 posted on 09/13/2013 7:43:40 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: wbill

These guys were looking for trouble, and they found it.


So were our founding fathers.


45 posted on 09/13/2013 7:50:07 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

As was pointed out on another thread about this incident, the queers have been so in-your-face about their activities, that they have won queer marriage in many places.

Gun owners need to be in-your-face about open carry, until it becomes normal and un-remarkable.


This nails it.


46 posted on 09/13/2013 7:50:39 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: DoodleDawg

If you’re a police officer and you draw on me while I’m acting within my rights and in a completely lawful manner, I’m going to make your life as miserable as I possibly can from that moment going forward.


47 posted on 09/13/2013 7:55:34 AM PDT by Arm_Bears (Refuse; Resist; Rebel; Revolt!)
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To: SpeakerToAnimals

Them City Slickers want Us`n Country Boys to be disarmed n` helpless against the bad guys like they are in their miserable lives.


48 posted on 09/13/2013 7:59:30 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 (("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.))
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To: Pentagon Leatherneck

If they have the right, they have the right.

It might be a bad idea for me to drive my convertable in the rain with the top down, but I shouldn’t get stopped by the police for doing it.

But this is different? How? Because people felt threatened?

Why did they feel threatened? Because its not normal for people to carry guns in public? OK, so let them get used to it, then it will be normal behavior, and the people calling the police about it will be dismissed out of hand, just the same as I would be ignored if I called 911 and said, “A big bald guy wearing leather and covered in tatoos just walked into McDonalds!”

Guns are everywhere, it is not reasonable for people to be frightened just because they see them.


49 posted on 09/13/2013 8:00:16 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: wbill
These guys were looking for trouble, and they found it.

I'm sure they understood that the likelihood of dealing with the police was high, but I disagree that they were looking for trouble. I'm sure they would have been much, much happier if the police had simply responded to the caller by telling them to call back if they saw anything that was actually against the law.

As you finish with, society didn't used to be so hyper about seeing firearms in the public square. So how do we get back to that point? There is only one way and that is conditioning. These men had their weapons slung, and were not doing anything threatening, which is exactly the correct way to introduce people to seeing firearms in the public square.

50 posted on 09/13/2013 8:05:26 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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