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Obama To Labor Unions With Multi-Employer Health Plans: Drop Dead
Forbes ^ | 9/14/2013 | Roy Avik

Posted on 09/14/2013 7:26:21 AM PDT by xzins

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To: Sioux-san

I wouldn’t so much credit the sinful mortals involved in this drama with this likely scenario of events... as credit the devil. But above all credit God who in granting freedom also set out the parameters under which evil, if indulged in, would operate (basically taking everything good and systematically turning it upside down as hate usurped the intended place of God’s love). We credit God because He has told us the scheme, it is not some thing above our heads now. It’s a battle we can come right back at, having been clued in by the heavenly CIA to Satan’s own battle book, and given a divinely written, proven winning strategy against it. As if holding the devil there by his tail so when he roars at us we can slap him silly (as long as we do it the right way, to glorify God not us) wasn’t enough. There’s no excuse for not joining this battle on God’s side.


51 posted on 09/14/2013 8:43:25 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Well said! Well said, Hi-Tech!


52 posted on 09/14/2013 8:46:38 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Jesus thrown everything off balance." - (The Misfit) Flannery O'Connor)
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To: xzins

WH Occupant: A Clear and Pres__ent Danger to Us All!

Way to go, Trumka..


53 posted on 09/14/2013 8:48:44 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi --)
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Yup. let these POS commie bastards suffer like the rest of us.


54 posted on 09/14/2013 8:51:01 AM PDT by max americana (fired liberals in our company after the election, & laughed while they cried (true story))
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I like the comment quoted in your tag.

Really, the “balance” that Jesus throws off wasn’t even desired by God to be the balance in the first place, even though God allowed it as part of the package of allowing freedom at all. It’s evil teetering on its ear. The battle is simpler than we might be inclined to think in our sophisticated brains. If we fail it may be for lack of taking God’s own promises to the maximum.


55 posted on 09/14/2013 8:52:28 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: max americana

Sometimes some suffering is needed to show someone they’ve gone wrong... but God knows how much and when. It is not wrong to make a gospel pitch right on the spot. If they are not yet ready they will refuse but might be approachable later.


56 posted on 09/14/2013 8:53:34 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: xkaydet65

In answer to your query about why people join and follow unions. In 1967 and 68 when I was in college I worked summers as a laborer in NYC for Local 731 Int’l Laborers and Hod carriers. I was paid $4.75/hr. A good wage and better than most college kids got back then. If you go to inflation calculator you will find that $4.75 then is $33.22 today, but members of 731 make $41.29 plus $26 in benefits/hr. Given that construction has weather related down times the laborer still can make $75K-$85K per year plus benefits. And the laborer is at the bottom of the construction wage scale in NYC. Carpenters, electricians, wire lathers, ironworkers make more. The non union guys are making $25-$30/hr with very minimal bennies in the area. That’s why people join and stay in unions. Oh and back in 67 I worked my tail off for those 9 weeks and the guys I know who are 731 laborers today still do. One final thought. In May 1970 I and 100K other hardhats marched in support of President Nixon and the troops in Viet Nam in the hardhat parade. No one complained about us being union members then.


You make a strong argument for the existence of private sector unions, probably a necessary evil of the free market system.

Alternatively, wage and benefit levels that outpace the market can eventually destroy entire industries such as what occurred in Detroit, where the UAW savaged the American auto industry. American Big Steel also fell to the wrath of the unions and other forces like govt regulation and price controls.

One day you’re making a tidy $40 per hour and the next day your job is long gone, being done abroad for pennies on the dollar.


57 posted on 09/14/2013 8:56:07 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It’s MY opinion that God’s judgment has come to our nation. It will interesting to see if this judgment is heeded by the people of this country.


58 posted on 09/14/2013 8:58:57 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: PaleoBob

Which was a point I made too, but differently.

Group negotiation power is like any neutral power. It can be used for good or for ill.

If used without the fear of God (i.e. the desire to please Him for His own sake) it will be used for ill in this sinful world. I don’t have any perfect worldly answer but I have a Guide Whom when worshiped will maneuver our imperfect worldly answers into a plan that converges upon heaven. It would be hard to resist the temptation to be fair to an unfair party, but that’s what God wants.


59 posted on 09/14/2013 9:04:13 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Wow, so true. I’ll have to think about that -— long and hard.


60 posted on 09/14/2013 9:05:55 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Jesus thrown everything off balance." - (The Misfit) Flannery O'Connor)
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To: Artcore

God’s judgment comes to everyone who indulges in evil however shallowly or deeply.

This is where our overarching view of God greatly influences how we are going to see this. Those who take the love/grace view (and significant personal victories over seemingly intractable sin make this view far easier to accept) recognize that judgment in the world is an opportunity to be purified and see the light. Indeed when believers or even believers-to-be have gone through it, they have the audacious promise that ALL THINGS work together for their good. We pussyfoot around God’s promises while giving the megaphone to God’s threats. Why? Like God had little better to do than send people to hell?


61 posted on 09/14/2013 9:07:42 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: xzins

Wide is the road to destruction, My FRiend, and many go down its path.


62 posted on 09/14/2013 9:11:38 AM PDT by sport
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To: Artcore

Anyhow, Art, to face this more squarely... judgment or no. Let’s push the gospel out there until God himself tells us to stop. It perfectly embodies God’s outreach. The Old Testament moved on iron chariot wheels, as a lesson teacher. Physical death in that lesson is a metaphor for a worse fate, going to hell. We now have a gospel rocket. Why not use it? Would a loving God want any less?


63 posted on 09/14/2013 9:12:04 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: sport

And yet, zeroing back in on Christ will get you on the narrow road again. Our fault if we don’t. Not God’s fault.


64 posted on 09/14/2013 9:13:02 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: xzins

If only the GOP were smart enough to capalatize on it.


65 posted on 09/14/2013 9:13:14 AM PDT by matt04
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To: VRWC For Truth
They got a deal. No doubt. It’s all an act.

Exactly....we'll just never hear about it. When the unions go silent, we'll be able to read 'tween the lines.....the lapdog media won't, but some of us will.

66 posted on 09/14/2013 9:14:58 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (The 0baMao Experiment: Abject Failure)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Which was a point I made too, but differently.

Group negotiation power is like any neutral power. It can be used for good or for ill.

If used without the fear of God (i.e. the desire to please Him for His own sake) it will be used for ill in this sinful world. I don’t have any perfect worldly answer but I have a Guide Whom when worshiped will maneuver our imperfect worldly answers into a plan that converges upon heaven. It would be hard to resist the temptation to be fair to an unfair party, but that’s what God wants.


I like your rhetorical skills and your devotion to facts. Big Labor oughta hire you to make their case.


67 posted on 09/14/2013 9:15:06 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: PaleoBob

Whoops I got that last phrase backwards by mistake. When battling through demons sometimes one can slip. Keeps the otherwise proud me humble.

It would be hard to resist the temptation to be UNFAIR to an unfair party.

Hope that correction clears it up!


68 posted on 09/14/2013 9:17:39 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: xzins

Haven’t they heard. 29.5 hours is the new “part time” worker defined by obamaumaocare.

Look for Trumka to join Hoffa, Sr. very soon. He is of course, a grafter pig, and rank and file know this. It is why unions have never done well for the workers/members, but quite well for the leadership.


69 posted on 09/14/2013 9:17:41 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: xkaydet65

I understand that, and see why they would want to JOIN the union, what I don’t understand is how they let their leadership drag them down into the democrat slime


70 posted on 09/14/2013 9:18:14 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: matt04

Maybe Boehner would step aside and let Putin be Speaker of the House for a year. :>)


71 posted on 09/14/2013 9:19:43 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

This can only mean Zero has promised Trumka some other way to help unions avoid Obama care costs. I feel an executive order coming next week or some other dirty trick. Telling union to pound sand would seriously injure the Democrats in 2014 and there is no way that happened


72 posted on 09/14/2013 9:20:24 AM PDT by Fzob (In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. Jefferson)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

HiTech RedNeck to PaleoBob

Whoops I got that last phrase backwards by mistake. When battling through demons sometimes one can slip. Keeps the otherwise proud me humble.

It would be hard to resist the temptation to be UNFAIR to an unfair party.

Hope that correction clears it up!


Oh, got it the first time. Unions are like computer keyboards—value-neutral! And those without a moral code are doomed to create evil in the end no matter their stated intention. You’re really evoking Adams to defend unions. You’d think the unions would have the sense to make your case. But of course too many are run by Bolshevik thugs, and you wanna talk immoral...


73 posted on 09/14/2013 9:23:18 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: HiTech RedNeck

You know, whether you mean it or not, you do have a tendency to sound quite preachy and just a bit full of yourself.

I don’t discount God’s Love, Mercy, Forgiveness, and of course Salvation. We have hope in these promises. That being said, we should also NOT “pussyfoot” around about what happens to nations that willfully reject the One True and Holy God. Doubt me? You might want to see how God dealt with His own people throughout their history. The Bible is replete with example after example of their disobedience and God’s judgment on them as a nation. Of course, when they repented, God always lovingly welcomed them back as per His covenant with them.

While I agree we shouldn’t always focus on God’s “threats”, we also should never forget we serve a Holy God who deals with our disobedience.


74 posted on 09/14/2013 9:23:35 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: xzins

I’ll be surprized if some future 0bama/Robertscare accomodation is’t made for labor.


75 posted on 09/14/2013 9:28:53 AM PDT by citizen (There is always free government cheese in the mouse trap.....https://twitter.com/kracker0)
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To: xzins

The Schadenfreude strong in this one, is.


76 posted on 09/14/2013 9:42:29 AM PDT by left that other site (You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth Shall Set You Free...John 8:32)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Amen!


77 posted on 09/14/2013 10:02:41 AM PDT by sport
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To: sport
To all the union jacka**es who vote DIM/LIB/RINO... Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
78 posted on 09/14/2013 10:11:36 AM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: xzins

Keep up the great work, Comrade Obama!


79 posted on 09/14/2013 10:36:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: xzins

AFL-CIO learns not to play three card Monte.


80 posted on 09/14/2013 10:36:53 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“Would a loving God want any less?”
____________________________________

No He wouldn’t. :-)


81 posted on 09/14/2013 10:57:57 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: VRWC For Truth; All
They got a deal. No doubt. It’s all an act.

Sad to say you maybe onto something, we maybe getting played harder than Obama is getting played by Putan, ( spelled incorrect on purpose ).

They maybe quasi-socialist apparatchiks, but after GM going under becauses of mainly healthcare, they know that if it happens again and Oboingo ain't in office, such a bankruptcy deal where they are at the head of the line and "their contracts" aren't voided i.e. they are kicked out like they should have been are slim and none. On top of it, they know the GM actuaries blew it and we are living longer and I have a funny suspicion VEBA or no VEBA they don't want the responsibility of Health-Care for workers anymore, they rather sluff it off on Uncle Sam and kiss his Democrat Derriere in exchange a focus on where their real power lies PENSIONS....

A penny for your thoughts...

Worst part? They got screwed with Nafta, now with Obamacare, and if their last stand is their Pensions if the Dem's do what they want and co-mingle them with SSI at somepoint they would loose that too. That would make them triple loosers. Will they ever learn???

82 posted on 09/14/2013 11:02:48 AM PDT by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
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To: xzins

Didn’t anyone ever tell the labor bosses that if they lay down with dogs they’ll get fleas? Or maybe they’re already so flea-infested already they didn’t care at the time. We’ll they’re sure itching now!


83 posted on 09/14/2013 11:06:32 AM PDT by AtlasStalled
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To: xzins

“labor leaders wrote, Obamacare would “shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.””

Kind of funny that unions thought they were special. That’s what all supporters of fascist governments think. At first. Stabbing supporters in the back when they are no longer useful is standard modus operandi for fascist governments.

Too bad government schools no longer teach history. It’s pretty much why we are doomed to repeat it in the U.S.

Still, I feel no sympathy at all for this bunch of useful fools. The unions are one of the big reasons we have fascists in charge right now, along with programs like Obamacare for the peasants, while the governing elite and their billionaire supports have all the health care they need. A lot like the old Soviet Politburo when you think about it. Oops, there’s some more of that history for you. Oh, and it turns out that union members are peasants too, they just didn’t know it until now.


84 posted on 09/14/2013 11:12:43 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: catnipman

This is what happens to all ‘useful idiots’ when they are no longer needed.

Keep that in mind next election, Unions.


85 posted on 09/14/2013 11:13:59 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: xzins

When that sould like a deacent iidea to first though, it might be time for Boehenr to go.


86 posted on 09/14/2013 11:41:55 AM PDT by matt04
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To: xzins

Would that this would get them off their knees.


87 posted on 09/14/2013 11:53:47 AM PDT by Excellence (All your database are belong to us.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; Henry Hnyellar
>> Prayers made according to His will (which in fact is to help us... we are piteously helpless, so filled with pride we are) are always always always always always answered YES.<<

The problem these days is that people are praying for things that go against the prophesy of God so the answer will not be yes.

88 posted on 09/14/2013 2:42:57 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: xzins

But I just heard Trumka say a fix would be next week on Fox News. Whether he meant fixing Obama’s clock or ObamaCare destruction to unions I don’t know.


89 posted on 09/14/2013 3:15:23 PM PDT by OafOfOffice (W.C:Socialism:Philosophy of failure,creed of ignorance,gospel of envy,the equal sharing of misery)
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To: xzins

This is a setup. Obama will never turn his back on unions. They will help deliver socialism then marxism for Obama. Trumka is a socialist.


90 posted on 09/14/2013 3:19:44 PM PDT by OafOfOffice (W.C:Socialism:Philosophy of failure,creed of ignorance,gospel of envy,the equal sharing of misery)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Hey, God is like that. God is here as the “heavenly huckster.” God’s here actively pushing heaven on us hellish mortals. Sometimes we have to be so filled up with hell that we absolutely fail, before we’ll consent to let heaven in, and God uses that situation without skipping a beat because He very slyly forgave us at the Cross. Really it must suck to be Satan trying to get a leg up here and always failing in the end. Suck to the max.

It has never once seemed that way to me...ever. Maybe Christ won our future but Satan completely owns our present. Our time on Earth is spent being destroyed by vermin such as Obama. We don't get to do anything else.
91 posted on 09/14/2013 5:17:51 PM PDT by Wanderer99
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I agree! Sometimes I think prayer is like us voting for God. We ratify His will when we call upon Him to do His plan. I think He does answer each and every sincere wish for Him to enter in and perform His work.

I feel like prayer is like democrat voting...vote early and vote often! ;-D


92 posted on 09/14/2013 7:42:50 PM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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To: xzins

Obama doesn’t need them anymore. He doesn’t need anybody anymore. That’s why boner and McConnell are afraid of shutting down the government. Obama would love to shut it down. He wants to destroy this country. The only thing that could save it is millions of people marching on D.C. But where would we eat and where would we .... ?


93 posted on 09/14/2013 8:20:28 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: xzins

That must put y’all in a difficult situation. Bless your heart. I do feel your pain.


94 posted on 09/14/2013 9:10:40 PM PDT by RginTN
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To: Artcore

Maybe I am too effusive with God’s promises?

Are you sure that it really is “me” that I am full of? Or only full of something which is hardly ever heard today in our polite churches?

Forget me if you wish but please remember again what God can do! If our faith looks weak compared to the 1st century have we conveniently boxed ourselves into a corner with theological excuses?

If you can improve on the presentation please do so! I cheerfully invite you to do just that. But don’t dumb down the promises!


95 posted on 09/14/2013 9:12:23 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Artcore

Think about it carefully, pal.

I am not saying the penalties aren’t there, but that the great secret is that this is not the high level name of the game with God. He’d rather bring someone to heaven than send them to hell. If hell is their destination it is not for lack of God’s vigorous efforts otherwise.

If you think the bible gives the promises short shrift, maybe it’s not the bible but your own eyes that are giving them short shrift!

There’s nothing like God KEEPING a promise that really opens your eyes up to the promise orientation of God. DARE to test God on promises!


96 posted on 09/14/2013 9:16:12 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Artcore

And yes, I tested God on a promise.

It handily took care of a bondage that had shackled me for literally decades. The proof of the pudding of salvation was finally in the tasting.

Call me a believer now. If I praise God clumsily yet, I’d rather praise God clumsily than not at all! Please improve on the format. But do not stifle the power. Oh, if people knew what power awaited the acceptance of promises of God, and no that doesn’t mean a long tidying up of your life so God will then give a stamp of approval. That’s a distortion human theologians “FULL OF THEMSELVES” have introduced, doing to Christianity what the Pharisees did to Judaism. No it’s simply stop sinning! agree with God that it was sin! begin going the other way, calling on the power of the promise! and as often as needed.


97 posted on 09/14/2013 9:24:31 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Artcore

The big trouble here, Arty (and I was plenty guilty of this for years after nominally believing) is that “repenting” Christians will “repent” to their prides! Ah, I’m just going to be too good for this sin or that sin or the other sin... and that scarcely EVER helps. It’s the helpless, hopeless sinner who is honest, meeting God, who gets going like a righteous rocket. He’s learned there’s nothing but God’s love to lean on. He is not like we proud, polite Christians. And his testimony and urging will look mighty “full of himself” to us.

And OK so this was four posts. God’s wonder is worth four posts. If you can improve on the format, do. But don’t stifle His positive power by obsession with the negative. Deal with the negative in God’s positive power as the negative comes and then when victory is achieved rejoice in the victory and don’t wallow in either fear or shame over the negatives. Please. Anything less grieves His heart!


98 posted on 09/14/2013 9:37:51 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Artcore

OK, this is five posts!

“WE GOTTA HUNKER DOWN BECAUSE GOD’S JUDGING THIS JOINT AND THERE’S NOTHING ELSE WE CAN DO.”

GRRRRR!! Fooey!!!

The Lion of Judah says, really, that He can do more than meow! You MIGHT or MIGHT NOT spread the enthusiasm to enough people to make a big difference in the scene. But we would be timid fools not to try to conduct what difference we CAN, from the always-omnipotent Lord into a sad society, which is another way of saying what the bible calls our neighbor. Wouldn’t you feel stupid if God really was lining up a revival and you quailed out???


99 posted on 09/14/2013 9:49:17 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: TEXOKIE

Great catch, Tex, that’s another way it could be put.

I try to latch onto these additional insights as I hear them and use them later as God inspires. I wish folks who disagree with me, and I sure ain’t perfect yet. would suggest something better without torpedoing the constructive power I am trying to grasp and channel, however clumsily I do it. Please do it less clumsily than I; more grace is always a wonderful thing. But keep that baby as you pitch that bath water.


100 posted on 09/14/2013 10:13:46 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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