Skip to comments.Pope Francis: Catholic Church must focus beyond "small-minded rules"
Posted on 09/19/2013 2:46:04 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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You are most welcomed.
“He’s already told atheists to live according to their conscience and they’ll be just fine.”
That was the spin the media put on it. He didn’t really say it that way. The problem is this Pope makes vague statements that can be interpreted many different ways. To your point though I would not rule out anything. Does anyone really know how liberal (or not) this Pope is? It’s a guessing game.
thank you for the insight-
I do not trust ANY of the media to correctly
address what he is trying to say- -
The pope must take a stand on the ultimate truth
of the scriptures and commandments!
God looks for ALL sinners to come to Him-!
AND we ARE ALL sinners-!
I wish he would say this loudly!- Pope Benedict
Did! - was he forced out?- did God tell him to leave?
over 600 years ago a pope was forced out because of
a schism (multiple popes)— but this came as a surprise
to all (insiders will not say)-
MAN, oh man, if I could write and “end Time Trilogy”
!!! between O’bummer, the New pope, the ascendency
of EviL! what a story I could make up!
++But that might make some unhappy, so the new Pope wont tell them the truth. He thinks the Gospel is Sin on, Brother!++
He thinks no such thing. He doesn’t preach it either.
++Modern man is rushing to a hell they dont believe exists, while worshiping the God of Nike: Just do it! And the Pope is content to say, Yes, do it!++
The Pope says NO such thing.
Good grief! (Face palm...)
While that may be true, the public perception is that most Catholics believe the pope is “Infallible”.
If it is only in cases of faith and morals when invoking a special charism for that particular pronouncement, that is fine.
However, that is a very narrow definition and a fine distinction of which the average person is not aware. Most people, upon questioning, will not know about the special charism that has only been invoked a few times in the past 150 years, and are more likely to believe that the pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals without having to make a special invocation.
I did, after all, use the term “consider”. That means that, whatever the official stance is on this subject, the public perception is different. Abortion is definitely a matter of “Faith and Morals”, so whatever the pope says on the matter is going to affect Catholics, whether he invokes a charism or not.
Your analysis may be more accurate than mine. However, this Pope scares me. I’m Baptist, but anyone who proclaims Jesus as Lord is under attack. In America, we’re seeing people taken to court for their religious beliefs, and military members threatened. We are under attack, and he is acting like our attackers are just in need of a little guidance.
Modern man rejects the concept of sin. In a college class I was in last night, 2/3 of the class voted to legalize prostitution on the basis that people have the right to do what makes them happy, and orgasms make people happy!
We need Ronald Reagan as Pope, not Barry Obama...
He is approving sin. Shame on him.
Will he tell a homosexual he is a sinner? Or does he reply, “Golly, I sin too, and I’m the Pope!”
He is excusing sin, not confronting it. Think about John the Baptist...
When the Bishops did speak it was purposefully ambiguous to allow Catholics to vote for those who advocate for abortion.
I detect a strain of minimalist Christianity in this Pope.
In a Culture of Death in a Secular society...who is left to defend the defenseless if not the Catholic Church.
He is clearly moving away from JPII and Benedict...who were forceful in their challenges to Catholics, Christians and the World.
I seem to remember that some where, in church and Sunday School I was admonished to “love the sinner and hate the sin.” If I, as a person cannot do that, cannot God? Jesus and God loves us, despite our sins. We have the obligation to repent our sins for salvation. I see the Pope’s words as saying the same thing: God loves each of us, but not our sins. And he was not avoiding the question, but turning it on the hostile questioner, something I remember from logic and rhetoric class in college 45 years ago and have used it when appropriate.
Did you read the CBS report, or the report with his actual words I linked to in my post #9. Remember, the MSM has no desire to give any positive view of Pope Francis. They want to make him into their secular humanist/pagan world view and warping his quotation to have him saying what makes them feel good about their secular and anti-Christian beliefs.
You are quite incorrect. He is teaching people about how to confront sinners...as Jesus did with the adulterous woman. He healed her through His MERCY and forgiveness. He most certainly is NOT condoning sin...and he never will.
People need to really understand the motives of what and how the press reports what Pope Francis says and does.
“I see the Popes words as saying the same thing: God loves each of us, but not our sins.”
Could you point to the specific quote from the Pope, where he is loving we sinners, yet not our sins.
Perhaps I missed this part, but he seems to be calling for balance, where the weights are measured against Christian morals. The “balance” was JPII and Benedict.
What a man! Truly a man of this world
This proceeded to get 131 thumbs up.
But I thought the same thing:
If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you.
Yep: Love is God.
You are welcome!
...though our prayers will do so much more than our words with those who approach such things with their minds already leaning in a critical direction.
Let’s just pray...and give them all to HIM who loves them in spite of it all. His ways are above our ways with this...
Only by Catholics.
The rest of us peons know better. :)
Nice try to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. This Pope is going to be a liberation theology liberal disaster. I smelled it from the beginning and every day it’s being proved more true.
He’s NOT saying that abortion is okay. He’s saying that we don’t start with the negatives first when we’re trying to convert people.
The Church is our Mother, something that people have forgotten since Vatican II, when the Church suddenly became a politicized bureaucracy. Our Mother calls to us and brings us back to Her, and through her to Her Son, Jesus, and we don’t have to be perfect to hear the call and respond. And we can even fall and come back once we’re there.
This doesn’t diminish the teachings of the Church on abortion, homosexuality, or anything else: it simply says that our first duty is to call to people, just as Our Lord did.
“He is teaching people about how to confront sinners...as Jesus did with the adulterous woman. He healed her through His MERCY and forgiveness. He most certainly is NOT condoning sin...and he never will.”
True. But Francis omits the last part of that action in this interaction he discusses. There is no, “...and go and sin no more.”
You are correct. Unfortunately, the words he uses allows people the wiggle room to believe he does, the way Bernardin's Seamless Garment gave cover to abortion supporters. I don't believe that is his intention but that is the result.
Not when it comes to religion or God. The MSM always report that faithfully.
You should read the comments on this article at the Daily Mail UK.
The atheists and gays are lovin’ him!
thank you for posting this in full. Hopefully some who’ve used the biased CBS selective quotation to criticize Pope Francis, will read it and reconsider. And recognize that they were led astray by an article designed to cause such confusion among Christ’s followers.
Methinks that is the most sensible thing I have ever heard a Catholic say.
Creepily stated, mamzelle. :)
Sorry, he's been carrying on for months now....and his "social justice" mentality seems to be running amok, not the other way around. He's not THAT new to the media world that he doesn't know how to voice things in terms that it doesn't frighten conservative and traditional Catholics half to death.
I had bad vibes about this Pope from the git-go. I will pray that he straightens up and flies RIGHT.
I will blame the media for a lot of things, but not this story.
The Pope's own quotes are used in the story, and not out of context.
Amen - and it seem like those days are fast approaching.
“The atheists and gays are lovin him!”
As are the Obama voting, , abortion loving Catholics. They are gloating on EWTN and Raymond Arroyo’s FBook pages.
Yep, and there is the rub.
Every man, and woman, will disappoint but Jesus.
I knew it....always suspected this...bye bye traditional Church....
Your logical response exposes the attempt by some to discount the absolute un-Biblical "teaching" of this new pope.
I have seen it underlying in the many interviews and homilies of his that I have read. Can I point to an exact quotation? No I cannot. But I have not read him saying “love the sin.” His style is to speak quietly and NOT shout “all you sinners are going to HELL” for, in my opinion, he recognizes that that 19th century style will NOT get anyone to listen, especially since Christian beliefs and morality are under attack throughout Western Society. In a military sense, he has his own set of tactics to fight the enemies of Christ, they may not be the same as yours, but his goal is the same (I hope of you) to convert the secular pagans to or back to Christianity.
He could have just said, “Hate the sin, love the sinner.” And tell the sinner to go and sin no more. This is the part that always breaks the deal though.
Read the posts with context here:
I have read what Pope Francis has said and I understand it...and I know it is nothing new and is being misinterpreted by those who wish to mislead and by those who, though they may mean well, are simply incorrect.
You SHOULD understand that the press is VERY suspect in how they present anything. A good FReeper should automatically be wary.
I am finished commenting. I will simply pray that the Truthful One (John 8) will make the truth of this known in His own way and time.
May God sincerely bless you.
I don't know how much more the Catholic church can bend.....either abortion is okay or it isn't....either gay sex is sinful or its not...
should we hate sinners?...I don't think so....but do we have to invite them as if they haven't sinned?.....didn't the Jesus...."go and sin no more"???
I do not think so. The MSM wants him to be for “Liberation Theology” but I do not see that he is not going that way.
We have been trying to tell you guys to come out of this abomination for a very long time. Perhaps now, some eyes will be opened.
the “Catholic church” is not the pope nor it bishops or its cardinals...its not even its priests....its us....
He is. And his previous statements about atheists need to follow their "conscience" and the downplaying of homosexuality are equally outrageous.
And millions of people (including children) believe he is infallible, and speaks for God Himself.
Christ had something to say about such people:
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
Popes aren’t worshiped.
We need Jesus Christ as our Head on earth.....and even after He returns and reigns for 1000 years, some will still reject Him.
Can you imagine? Would not like to be them!
I recall they Jesus was condemned by the Pharisee and Sadducces for eating and speaking with sinners. Can we do no less than to invite them to know the teachings of Jesus? Or should we keep our churches for only us and our fellow non-sinners?
12,000 werds and not a one about pedophile priests? Anything about turning over the child-bangers he’s hiding in the Fatican ? It’s easier to run a bigass religion if you practice what you preach. Mostly, I just want to hear Pope Frankie define “celibacy” again.
This is now the top story on Drudge and the New York Times:
This is promoting sin and evil. There is no dancing around it.
“we dont start with the negatives first when were trying to convert people.”
And yet Jesus never held back on the negatives. Neither should we.
You’re correct, of course, but it’s always baffled me why the reporting is always so side ways since most of them show up on Good Friday with a smoky thumb print on their fore head. They give cafeteria Catholics a bad rap.