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Arctic ice melt slows down: NASA
AFP News ^ | September 21, 2013

Posted on 09/21/2013 4:21:31 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

Arctic sea ice melted less this summer and continued to cover a greater expanse than last year's record minimum, NASA data shows.

But the remaining Arctic sea ice cover is much thinner overall compared to the previous decades by as much as 50 percent. Scientists say thinner seasonal ice is replacing older, thicker ice as it melts away.

"Thinner ice melts completely at a faster rate than thicker ice does, so if the average thickness of Arctic sea ice goes down, it's more likely that the extent of the summer ice will go down as well," said Goddard senior scientist Joey Comiso-Wanker.

"At the rate we're observing this decline, it's very likely that the Arctic's summer sea ice will completely disappear within this century."

(Excerpt) Read more at france24.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: climatechange; climategate; failure; globalcooling; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; hoax; socialism

1 posted on 09/21/2013 4:21:31 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Summer is about over...


2 posted on 09/21/2013 4:24:49 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Don’t take my word for it, these are my opinions...Do your own Homework)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
And by the end of the century, every AGW nutjob making these scary predictions will be long dead. How convenient.
3 posted on 09/21/2013 4:24:51 PM PDT by JPG (Putin Does Obama.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

We were already warned that the Arctic Ice cap would be totally gone this year, in 2013. Since that didn’t come to pass, I guess it’s time to revise the scare tactic and stretch it out to sometime this century.

Par for the course for the Global Warming/Climate Change-Must-Have-A-Society-Controlling-Policy-and-Tax crowd.


4 posted on 09/21/2013 4:26:37 PM PDT by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
global warming is a hoax. the media and government have the democrat sheep believing in global warming

government doesn’t work and must be abolished except for military and border control.

for 30 years the government has been giving billion$ of our tax dollars to fund fake science to create the global warming hoax. the media has been screeching global warming for 30 years. it’s all to destroy capitalism, destroy our freedom and our economy . in other words they created the global warming imaginary goblin to scare us into accepting socialism/statism

The Earth will cool in the coming decades. will democrats and low info voters finally realize their media and gov have been lying to them

5 posted on 09/21/2013 4:27:14 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

NASA is nothing more than another arm of the Ministry of Propaganda and Muslim Outreach.

Science there has regressed to superstition a la the middle ages.


6 posted on 09/21/2013 4:30:44 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: Democrat_media

>>government doesn’t work and must be abolished except for military and border control.<<

I’m not sure I want an anti Christian, queer military force defending America. I know I don’t want an ineffective border control force.


7 posted on 09/21/2013 4:31:02 PM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- <<http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
for 30 years the government has been giving billion$ of our tax dollars to fund fake science to create the global warming hoax. the media has been screeching global warming for 30 years. it’s all to destroy capitalism, destroy our freedom and our economy

The democrat sheep all still believe in the brainwashing the mainstream media programmed into them.

I laugh at and ridicule these idiot democrats all over the Internet and in person.

8 posted on 09/21/2013 4:33:39 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: Democrat_media

” Joey Comiso-Wanker.”

One of Peggy;s cousins?


9 posted on 09/21/2013 4:35:18 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Of course it is thinner.

It is newly formed ice.

After this winter, it will be much thicker.


10 posted on 09/21/2013 4:36:10 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: ChildOfThe60s

NASA has been pushing the global warming lie for a long time

NASA is just another evil,corrupt government agency the same as the IRS , EPA etc. all these gov agencies must be dismantled


11 posted on 09/21/2013 4:36:47 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Cosimo-Wanker?

CC

12 posted on 09/21/2013 4:38:06 PM PDT by Celtic Conservative (tease not the dragon for thou art crunchy when roasted and taste good with ketchup)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

These socialist corrupt scientists are getting paid 6 figure salaries with our tax dollars to do nothing except push a lie called global warming

The Earth is getting colder not warmer .


13 posted on 09/21/2013 4:39:21 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

You just knew the warming fanatics would find something to complain about. Maybe six months of darkness will thicken up the ice.


14 posted on 09/21/2013 4:45:50 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Democrat_media

OK!! Everybody pay attention!

Lesson for today:

1. The sun is 1,300,000 times as big as the earth.

2. The sun is a ball of fire that controls our climates.

3. The earth is a rock.

4. The earth is a speck in comparison to the size of the sun.

5. Inhabitants of the earth are less than specks.

Study Question: How do less-than-specks in congress plan to control the sun?


15 posted on 09/21/2013 4:54:39 PM PDT by abclily
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To: abclily

yes and C02 is less than 0.04% of the atmosphere. but Democrats want us to believe that a change that is a small percentage of that tiny amount will affect the Earth’s climate more than the Sun does.C02 does not affect the Earth’s climate at all .I have democrats on this site calling me names cause I said C02 does not affect the Earth’s climate. democrats are dumber than lint


16 posted on 09/21/2013 5:02:46 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

A hyphenated Wanker,, what next?:-)


17 posted on 09/21/2013 5:04:20 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: abclily
Study Question: How do less-than-specks in congress plan to control the sun?

Don't look at congress. The one who thinks he's in control is elsewhere.


18 posted on 09/21/2013 5:05:48 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (I'm a Christian, pro-life, pro-gun, Reaganite. The GOP hates me. Why should I vote for them?)
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To: Democrat_media

And dumber than a box of rocks.

Dumber than a bag of hair.

Intelligence of weeds.

Democrats are from the LEFT side of the Bell Curve. That’s why they’re referred to as the LEFT.


19 posted on 09/21/2013 5:06:43 PM PDT by abclily
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To: Democrat_media

I think you missed a couple of zeros there.


20 posted on 09/21/2013 5:07:11 PM PDT by SargeK
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To: Democrat_media
maybe when they are freezing in the dark, maybe...
21 posted on 09/21/2013 5:08:35 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: SargeK

My bad. .00035. Sorry!


22 posted on 09/21/2013 5:10:21 PM PDT by SargeK
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
"At the rate we're observing this decline, it's very likely that the Arctic's summer sea ice will completely disappear within this century."

Other predictions for events "very likely... [to happen] within this century."

Cleveland Browns to win Super Bowl three times in a row.
National Organization of Women endorses Sarah Palin for re-election as President.
The Democrat National Committee calls for a Balanced Budget Amendment and Term Limits.
Hillary! repeats as Sports Illustrated Swimsuit covergirl (thankfully, in a burka)

See, anyone can write wild, fanciful predictions covering the whole spectrum of improbabilities...[some which are totally deranged]

23 posted on 09/21/2013 5:15:21 PM PDT by BwanaNdege ("Life is short. It's even shorter if you suggest going out for pizza on your anniversary" Peter Egan)
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To: SargeK
C02 is less than 0.04% of the atmosphere

0.04% = 0.0004 . just a different way of saying it.

so C02 is less than 0.0004 of the atmosphere.

C02 does not affect the Earth's climate

C02 has been skyrocketing but the Earth is getting colder and has been since 2000

the reason the left picked C02 is because capitalism/industry produce C02

24 posted on 09/21/2013 5:25:38 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
"At the rate we're observing this decline, it's very likely that the Arctic's summer sea ice will completely disappear within this century."

Well, Joey, are you assuming that the trend is consistent in order to predict that the summer sea ice will disappear? What if your assumption is wrong, and there is no such trend?

25 posted on 09/21/2013 5:33:29 PM PDT by olezip (Time obliterates the fictions of opinion and confirms the decisions of nature. ~ Cicero)
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To: BwanaNdege

I figure that the worldwide obesity problem is nature’s way of preparing us for a long, cold period.


26 posted on 09/21/2013 5:36:03 PM PDT by MestaMachine (My caps work, You gotta earn them.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The incredibly FLAWED progressive left simply cannot help e selves.

1. Ice COMES AND GOES. By their logic “old thick” ice is to never disappear. This from the “priests of evolution”
2. According to the pseudo-science of the progressive left our world has been around for BILLIONS of years and they claim trend analysis on an infinitesimally small data set that is not even a consistent one.

Having been to Antarctica for over 19 yeas with a combined 2+ years worth of time on that place and a bunch of time in Greenland I can tell you they barely know anything yet but act like they know it all. I enjoy kore than anything the new mental gymnastics they have to go through to justify their religion as the mock my faith in Christ.


27 posted on 09/21/2013 5:39:36 PM PDT by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
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To: MestaMachine
I figure that the worldwide obesity problem is nature’s way of preparing us for a long, cold period.

Sounds good to me...

I think I'll have another piece of cheesecake, just in case.

28 posted on 09/21/2013 5:41:29 PM PDT by BwanaNdege ("Life is short. It's even shorter if you suggest going out for pizza on your anniversary" Peter Egan)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
"so if the average thickness of Arctic sea ice goes down, it's more likely that the extent of the summer ice will go down as well"

Then why didn't it, you babbling fool. The news that you are trying to spin is that the ice DIDN'T melt.

So why are you using this fact to spin a story that it's "more likely that it will melt"?

I'm obviously addressing this to Joey Wanker (appropriate name, isn't it), not you, buyer.

29 posted on 09/21/2013 5:50:33 PM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

I believe over the very long term, the arctic has bee ice-free more often than ice-covered.


30 posted on 09/21/2013 6:20:44 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: SargeK
My bad.

No, you had the zeroes right. And some sources say O.039%.

31 posted on 09/21/2013 6:24:20 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: abclily
Study Question: How do less-than-specks in congress plan to control the sun?z

By taxing carbon, of course, silly.

Geeez......

32 posted on 09/21/2013 6:26:28 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer; 11B40; A Balrog of Morgoth; A message; ACelt; Aeronaut; AFPhys; AlexW; alrea; ...
Who knew that new ice starts out thin, right???

DOOMAGE!

Global Warming PING!

You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.

Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

EPA Head: ‘Climate Change...Is One of Most Significant Public Health Threats'

Real climate science the IPCC doesn’t want you to see

McConnell: Obama's 'War on Coal' is a 'War on Jobs'

Increasing Number of British Public Deny World's Climate is Changing

Global Warming on Free Republic

Latest from Global Warming News Site

Latest from Greenie Watch

Latest from Real Climate

Latest from Climate Depot

33 posted on 09/21/2013 7:07:40 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Major brain damage at UMES, but no property damage!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Spin me baby I am a top.


34 posted on 09/21/2013 7:51:02 PM PDT by Venturer ( cowardice posturing as tolerance =political correctness)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

I am not a global warming hoax denier.


35 posted on 09/21/2013 7:59:03 PM PDT by preacher (I am not a global warming hoax denier.)
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To: BwanaNdege

Well played!


36 posted on 09/21/2013 8:19:30 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: abclily
Study Question: How do less-than-specks in congress plan to control the sun?

Well, it all starts with some very solemn editorializing by the MSM, then we RAISE AWARENESS OF THE ISSUE on Facebook and Twitter, then we dispense colorful armbands and ribbons, then we have the $10,000-per-plate Hollywood fundraisers, and then...

37 posted on 09/21/2013 8:26:33 PM PDT by TChad
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
One of Peggy;s cousins?

Yes; one that Al avoids like the plague; and if he does come around, Al locks Kelly in a closet.

38 posted on 09/21/2013 11:17:56 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: Right Wing Assault

No, you had the zeroes right. And some sources say O.039%.<<

And H2O is 400 times more responsible as a greenhouse gas for warming and cooling the Earth. If your model does not model H2O accurately...

DK

(or 40,000% more responsible)


39 posted on 09/22/2013 5:00:18 AM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: TChad
"Raise awareness of the issue"

If you do that then you have to talk about Russia moving to use their arctic coast as a shipping route.

Looking at the recent arctic ice maps and 30 year average arctic ice maps, it does look like the Russian side of the Arctic has far less ice than the Canadian side

40 posted on 09/22/2013 6:52:26 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Democrat_media
yes and C02 is less than 0.04% of the atmosphere. but Democrats want us to believe that a change that is a small percentage of that tiny amount

Without manmade CO2, the rise would have been from about 0.028% to 0.03% due to warming following the Little Ice Age. With manmade CO2, the amount has gone from 0.028 to 0.04. That is not a small percentage rise. You can still argue that the rise does not matter because of negative feedbacks, saturation, and/or constant lapse rate. But these are technical arguments that still acknowledge that 0.04% actually does matter.

For example to make an argument about saturation, one must argue that 0.03% is sufficient to saturate, etc.

41 posted on 09/22/2013 1:33:07 PM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Democrat_media
C02 does not affect the Earth's climate

Established science says CO2 absorbs energy in the atmosphere: http://scienceofdoom.com/2011/03/12/understanding-atmospheric-radiation-and-the-âgreenhouseâ-effect-â-part-nine/

C02 has been skyrocketing but the Earth is getting colder and has been since 2000

Not colder, but not significantly warmer either. Basically no effect, which means you are correct in the short run. In the long run you may be incorrect (see link above), or negative feedbacks, etc may mean you are correct again. Personally I think there is some effect in the long run, but weather and natural cycles will dominate.

42 posted on 09/22/2013 1:40:56 PM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Dark Knight
And H2O is 400 times more responsible as a greenhouse gas for warming and cooling the Earth

In the short run. See my link above. The short run means that water vapor (and clouds) reflect more or less short wave and capture more or less long wave energy. Those changes can result in planetary changes in temperature ("global average temperature") of 0.1C in just a week. Meanwhile the theory says that CO2 might add 0.1C in a decade or more provided there are no negative feedbacks. So while H2O is more responsible it also fluctuates and gets capped by natural processes like rain.

43 posted on 09/22/2013 1:45:07 PM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: palmer

Those changes can result in planetary changes in temperature (”global average temperature”) of 0.1C in just a week. Meanwhile the theory says that CO2 might add 0.1C in a decade or more provided there are no negative feedbacks. So while H2O is more responsible it also fluctuates and gets capped by natural processes like rain.<<

H2O causes changes that are clear within one week. CO2 may cause a fluctuation equally that is visible within one decade or 520 weeks. One is roughly 520 times more responsible as a warming cause. Or if you like rounding 500 times more or 50,000% more responsibly than CO2.

I looked at the absorption spectra diagrams in the link. They really made it clear that given the MASSIVE difference in H2O representation in the atmosphere, heat and not temperature is the key, and water is KING.

That is the key to the nonsense science of climatology.

DK


44 posted on 09/22/2013 4:30:06 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: palmer; Dark Knight; Right Wing Assault
My reply is to this palmer, I included others because they are on this thread but I am only debunking what palmer said. I agree with a lot of what Dark knight and right wing assualt said just including you 2 because he is spreading lies to you 2 also:

Co2 does not affect climate . The Sun's solar cyle does (as it created the mini ice age during the last several hundred years. temperates have correlated with the Sun's solar cycle not C02 levels. The Sun's solar cycle is the smallest it's been in a a 100 years. solar cycle 24 is much smaller then the previous ones and 25 will be even smaller. The declining solar cycles mean that the next several decades will be much cooler than now. some are saying another mini Ice age.

The Earth is cooling as the following link and graph show

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3067952/posts

you spread liberal media lies that are MEANT to grow government and enslave us.

0.039% is C02 percentage the “great” scientist say is there now

0.039% is really 0.00039

see 25% is 0.25< br> 0.25% = 0.0025

you don't even understand grammer school math.

so your difference is really 0.00009

a million Earths fit into the Sun . the sun is a Star .

funny that you and leftists concentrate on a gas that is 0.000039 of the atmosphere but ignore the sun's cycles that correlate with temperatures. The Earth would be -455 Fahrenheit if the Sun weren't there.

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/The-Weakest-Solar-Cycle-in-100-Years-216752671.html

“If this trend continues, there will be almost no spots in Cycle 25, and we might be going into another Maunder Minimum,” Penn states. The first Maunder Minimum occurred during the second half of the 17th century. Almost no spots were seen on the Sun during this time, which coincided with Europe’s Little Ice Age.

amazing the brainwashing of the media and gov. and the trust people have in gov even on this site.

what a coincidence that gov funded scientists happen to isolate a product of capitalism( C02) as causing global warming but the ignore the Sun's Solar cycles. there isn't even any warming but cooling coming . so i hope you liberals don't live in the North.. so why are you helping the liberal media and gov enslave us and grow gov and destroy this country by spreading their lies?

45 posted on 09/22/2013 7:07:28 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: palmer; Dark Knight; Right Wing Assault
My reply is to this palmer, I included others because they are on this thread but I am only debunking what palmer said. I agree with a lot of what Dark knight and right wing assualt said just including you 2 because he is spreading lies to you 2 also:

Co2 does not affect climate . The Sun's solar cyle does (as it created the mini ice age during the last several hundred years. temperates have correlated with the Sun's solar cycle not C02 levels. The Sun's solar cycle is the smallest it's been in a a 100 years. solar cycle 24 is much smaller then the previous ones and 25 will be even smaller. The declining solar cycles mean that the next several decades will be much cooler than now. some are saying another mini Ice age.

The Earth is cooling as the following link and graph show

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3067952/posts

you spread liberal media lies that are MEANT to grow government and enslave us.

0.039% is C02 percentage the “great” scientist say is there now

0.039% is really 0.00039

see 25% is 0.25< br> 0.25% = 0.0025

you don't even understand grammer school math.

so your difference is really 0.00009

a million Earths fit into the Sun . the sun is a Star .

funny that you and leftists concentrate on a gas that is 0.00039 of the atmosphere but ignore the sun's cycles that correlate with temperatures. The Earth would be -455 Fahrenheit if the Sun weren't there.

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/The-Weakest-Solar-Cycle-in-100-Years-216752671.html

“If this trend continues, there will be almost no spots in Cycle 25, and we might be going into another Maunder Minimum,” Penn states. The first Maunder Minimum occurred during the second half of the 17th century. Almost no spots were seen on the Sun during this time, which coincided with Europe’s Little Ice Age.

amazing the brainwashing of the media and gov. and the trust people have in gov even on this site.

what a coincidence that gov funded scientists happen to isolate a product of capitalism( C02) as causing global warming but they ignore the Sun's Solar cycles. there isn't even any warming but cooling coming . so i hope you liberals don't live in the North.. so why are you helping the liberal media and gov enslave us and grow gov and destroy this country by spreading their lies?

46 posted on 09/22/2013 7:10:47 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: Democrat_media

I agree. The idiot dishonest “warmers” are anti-science whores.


47 posted on 09/22/2013 7:10:56 PM PDT by ogen hal (First amendment or reeducation camp)
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To: ogen hal; palmer; Dark Knight; Right Wing Assault
Yes and the “warmers” even on this site are helping the media and gov to enslave us by menacing us with the global warming hoax or imaginary hobgoblin

http://notrickszone.com/2013/09/12/no-warming-left-to-deny-global-cooling-takes-over-cet-annual-mean-temperature-plunges-1c-since-2000/

CET temperature data from the UK Met Office: “The overall annual temperature shows a diminution of pretty much a full degree Celsius over the last 13 years.” Here’s the chart:


48 posted on 09/22/2013 7:28:40 PM PDT by Democrat_media (IRS rigged election for Obama and democrats by shutting down tea party)
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To: ogen hal

I won’t say dishonest, but surely shown a pile of doo. I looked at the website palmer referenced and it was clear to me when they were misrepresenting. But they were sophisticated in their scientific presentation, so regular people could look at it and believe. Not know, but believe.

Ask a really good prognosticator if they have 40 years of info, what kind of predictive value could you put on it? 5 years? 7 years? 100 years?

Models don’t generally predict outside their database. And they usually aren’t better than a 1/4 of the time frame. 40 years of date...maybe 10 years of projection.

And mixing of data by accuracy...LOL. Can you predict with a tenth of a degree accuracy, when your data is by the 1/2 degree, or 1/5 degree? Your worst data, determines your accuracy. Much of the non satellite data is horridly gathered, and in dispute on collection methodology. Is surface data collection on land a representative sample enough to predict retention of heat content on the Earth as a whole? A clue, the oceans are the biggest heat sink on the Earth and good luck figuring out their heat content with a 1 degree accuracy (that would include all depths).

The models don’t work predictively. They really never have. That is the replicable part of science and the scientific method. But to put climate “science” in a box...climate is the weather over time. If you cannot predict the weather at a particular time...logical conclusions are a tough mistress...eh Laz?

DK


49 posted on 09/22/2013 8:46:17 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Dark Knight; Democrat_media
I looked at the website palmer referenced and it was clear to me when they were misrepresenting. But they were sophisticated in their scientific presentation, so regular people could look at it and believe. Not know, but believe.

Science of Doom is quite technical. But there are a few facts that are hard to dispute. The first is that CO2 molecules absorb energy. It is obvious that a small amount is enough because the mean free path of a photon is supposed to be 25 meters. The IR that is absorbed is released in all directions, but roughly half up and half down. WIth the average 25 meters in mind, he atmosphere can be thought of as many layers with CO2 (and water vapor as well) absorbing and releasing heat.

There are a couple easy experiments to verify heat trapping and release. The one I like is to measure temperature (or look at the weather service readings) on partly cloudy but calm nights. If the clouds are patchy and a patch of clouds moves over the station the temperature stops dropping and can even increase.

One way to think about it is a space blanket that reflects IR (not quite the same as absorbing and reemitting, but close enough. Tie the space blanket up in some trees and sit under it. It is not stopping heat loss by stopping convection like a regular blanket wrapped tight, or a sleeping bag. Rather, it is reflecting heat back to you.

The CO2 in the atmosphere does that. You have probably seen the absorption spectra of CO2 and other gases. Since those vary, there are some frequencies that CO2 absorbs and reemits that other gases do not.

The flip side of all this discusson is that water vapor does a lot more absorbing and reemitting and is highly variable due to weather. So the weather mostly dictates how much of the sun's heat is trapped each night and over longer time intervals.

I agree that surface temperatures are badly polluted with urban areas being the prime collection sites. I only refer to satellite measurements for that reason. I also agree that models can't predict anything. Models can't be verified because they don't model weather properly and in many cases do not model it at all.

So how are we supposed to know the effects of adding CO2? I have argued for many years on several forums that the warming in the 90s can't be attributed to CO2, but have argued that part of it was. Even including the late 90;s the warming has been modest, about 0.1C per decade and slowing. There are no bad consequences to that kind of warming and it is in fact good. We will have lower heating bills (we spend twice as much as on cooling). We will have better growing conditions (CO2) and longer seasons. We will have lower death rates because death rates are always highest in winter.

I would rather not argue about this subject at all, but I also want to argue from the best coherence of scientific facts that I can gather. Simple things like warming from clouds at night and the absorption bands of CO2 due to the modes in which CO2 can vibrate that O2 and N2 cannot. There's no good alternative explanations for things like that although I keep reading all the alternatives that I come across.

50 posted on 09/24/2013 6:07:41 PM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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