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Rand Paul: GOP ‘probably can’t defeat’ Obamacare [Reid, McCain concur. Wrong! Read on]
Politico ^ | Sept 21, 2013 | By Adam Sneed

Posted on 09/22/2013 11:10:57 AM PDT by Jim Robinson

Sen. Rand Paul conceded Saturday that congressional Republicans have little chance of stopping Obamacare.

“We probably can’t defeat or get rid of Obamacare,” the Kentucky senator told reporters at a gathering of Michigan Republicans, according to the Associated Press.

Paul acknowledged that time is running out for Congress to pass a government funding bill, however he said House Republicans’ efforts to defund Obamacare in its government funding bill could lead to a compromise.

~~snip~~

Reid has said any bill defunding Obamacare would be dead on arrival, and Sen. John McCain said Thursday that it was “not rational” to think the Senate would pass anything defunding the program.

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: Kentucky; US: Michigan; US: Nevada; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: appropriations; arizona; collaborator; congress; constitution; cruz; defund; defundobamacare; deny; elections; federalist58; house; jamesmadison; kentucky; michigan; mikelee; nevada; obamacare; powerofpurse; randnesty; randpaul; teaparty; teapartyrebellion; tedcruz; texas
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Paul is wrong. Reid is wrong. McCain is wrong. We don't need the irrational senate to pass a defunding bill. We don't need to pass a bill at all.

The House can definitely deny funds for obamacare or any other unconstitutional, runaway, big government boondoggle it wishes to deny by simply not funding it.

The senate has no say. The president has no say. If the House does not pass an appropriations bill for the program, there is no bill for the senate to alter or for the president to sign, and no funds for the project.

It's in the Appropriations Clause.

Excerpted from the Heritage Foundation:

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 7

The Appropriations Clause is the cornerstone of Congress's "power of the purse." It assigns to Congress the role of final arbiter of the use of public funds. The source of Congress's power to spend derives from Article I, Section 8, Clause 1. The Appropriations Clause provides Congress with a mechanism to control or to limit spending by the federal government. The Framers chose the particular language of limitation, not authorization, for the first part of the clause and placed it in Section 9 of Article I, along with other restrictions on governmental actions to limit, most notably, executive action.

In The Federalist No. 58, James Madison described the centrality of the power of the purse's role in the growth of representative government and its particular importance in the Constitution's governmental structure:

"The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose the supplies requisite for the support of the government. They, in a word, hold the purse—that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure."

Much more at link, including the power to change, suspend, or rescind prior funding bills. The funds still have to be appropriated by the current House of Representatives before they can be spent. And the House can deny funding for any department, agency or program it wishes to defund without even having to pass a bill.

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/67/appropriations-clause

Dear Republican Congress:

Hold the line!! The House has the power of the purse and the power to deny funds!!

Use your constitutional power to deny ObamaCare!!

When Obama/Reid and the demonrats come to you begging for money to fund the government, say here it is and present your prepared appropriations bills — with zero funds for obamacare — and let them know straight up that there will also be NO debt limit increase and, throwing Obama’s own words back at them, there will be NO negotiations!!

If they say no or refuse to go along, reject what the senate demonrats send back to you and begin passing “clean” appropriations bills one by one funding each essential department with no amendments allowed. Double dog dare them to deny funding to each department, one by one!!

The House holds all the constitutional cards in the appropriations game.

The only power Obama and Reid have is a mean-spirited attempt to try to shutdown the entire government in retaliation for the House denying funds for the president’s pet, unconstitutional, nation-wrecking, Marxist spread-the-wealth-around boondoggle -- a jobs-killing boondoggle that the American people do not want. But that (the shutdown) won’t work either. The essential parts of government will go on. The military will be paid. Social security checks will go out. Critical obligations will be paid.

The main effect of the Obama shutdown will be a whole lot of non-essential employees (excess baggage) from the bloated federal government get laid off. Whoopee.

Keep up the good work and the defunding battle all the way to Nov 2014 if necessary. We the people have your backs!!

It’s your constitutional power and duty to control the UNCONSTITUTIONAL runaway government.

Obamacare, if allowed to stand, is the death knell of our constitutional republic. Obamacare sets the precedent, approved by the Robert's Court, that there are no constitutional limits on what government can demand of the people. This bad ruling will be overturned eventually, but in the meantime, it's up to we the people to stop obamacare and we've elected you specifically to do that.

Gentlemen and gentlewomen, Do your duty!!

1 posted on 09/22/2013 11:10:57 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

Paul is becoming a defeatist.....it is sickening.
“We can’t do this, we can’t do that”.......stop being the party “we can’t” and the party THAT STOPS IT!


2 posted on 09/22/2013 11:13:24 AM PDT by svcw (Stand or die)
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To: Jim Robinson

I like Rand Paul. But he doesn’t seem to be a fire-in-the-belly fighter like Ted Cruz.

I think I know where my primary $’s are headed.


3 posted on 09/22/2013 11:13:39 AM PDT by RugerMini14
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To: RugerMini14

Ted and Sarah are the team!!!!


4 posted on 09/22/2013 11:15:54 AM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: Jim Robinson

This defeatist attitude must stop!
Shut your cake hole Paul!


5 posted on 09/22/2013 11:19:00 AM PDT by RedMDer (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)
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To: RedMDer

It is good to see actions ahead of elections - I believe that Ted Cruz is our best hope after seeing the efforts. I also hope my miserable senator, John McCain gets defeated and goes into retirement.


6 posted on 09/22/2013 11:20:42 AM PDT by princess leah
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To: RedMDer

Too much of Ron Paul in Rand’s playbook!


7 posted on 09/22/2013 11:21:32 AM PDT by A. Morgan (Ayn Rand: "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.")
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To: Jim Robinson

In a related story, “RAND PAUL ABANDONS 2016 RUN HOPES”.....


8 posted on 09/22/2013 11:22:58 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: A. Morgan
Too much of Ron Paul in Rand’s playbook!

....and not enough Sarah Palin's free testosterone!!!

9 posted on 09/22/2013 11:23:41 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: Jim Robinson
All we are asking demanding is for our elected representatives to do all they can to stop Obamacare. This is the time for them to show their colors. If it succeeds great.

If it doesn't then it will be up to the people to take the next step in 2014 and replace the democrats and republicans who refuse.

10 posted on 09/22/2013 11:26:52 AM PDT by oldbrowser (We have a rogue government in Washington)
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To: princess leah

Long past time to send that old warhorse out to pasture. Don’t understand why the people keep re-electing these feeble-minded old farts to sleep and die in office.


11 posted on 09/22/2013 11:27:03 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: RedMDer
This defeatist attitude must stop!

Honestly think it's a political attitude on Rand Paul's part.
He sees Ted Cruz as his biggest challenge to the GOP nomination.
Anything he can do to diminish Cruz now is a help to him.

People like Paul are not stupid, he knows the House can defund and render OBozocare useless with no power to enforce.

He is playing politics on his own behalf to the determent of the country.
He should be behind Cruz and the country on this, he's not.

12 posted on 09/22/2013 11:29:17 AM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin, Ted Cruz......Nuff said.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Look, he is saying that it probably can’t be defeated this year. The goal is to get the bill into conference and try to delay the implementation for as long as possible.

Only a republican president can defund Obamacare.

If the federal government is shutdown, Obama can still fund Obamacare through discretionary spending.

Attacking Rand Paul over this is the wrong way to go. I’m sure Cruz would disapprove.

Now let’s see how many republicans in the senate will join the filibuster to shutdown the federal government. I predict maybe 20 and Rand will be one of them.


13 posted on 09/22/2013 11:30:11 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: Jim Robinson
Long past time to send that old warhorse out to pasture. Don’t understand why the people keep re-electing these feeble-minded old farts to sleep and die in office.

And don't forget playing poker!

14 posted on 09/22/2013 11:30:51 AM PDT by mcmuffin (Freedom's On The March - Wave Goodbye!)
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To: oldbrowser

Amen. We the grassroots elected these guys to do a specific job, block obamacare. If they refuse to do so or if they instead vote to fund it, then I don’t see any reason to re-elect them.

On the other hand, if they do all they can possibly do and fight the good fight without compromise, then they’re just the stuff we’re looking for in 2014/2016.

Turncoats, defeatists and weak-kneed, spineless RINOS need not apply.


15 posted on 09/22/2013 11:32:28 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson; All
I thought Paul had some backbone but he's most disappointing making this statement, no surprise coming from Reid and turncoat McCain.

The House must defund this abortion law, 0bamacare. Everyone here on FR has to make our voices heard to our Congressmen and Congresswoman starting right now.

Directory of Representatives

16 posted on 09/22/2013 11:33:23 AM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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To: The Cajun

“He sees Ted Cruz as his biggest challenge to the GOP nomination.’

That’s not what this is about. It’s very unlikely that Cruz will run in the next election. He is pretty much falling on his sword right now. It’s all part of a bigger plan. Rand, Cruz and Lee have strategy sessions every morning. They know what they are doing.


17 posted on 09/22/2013 11:34:46 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: tallyhoe
You BET THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TED!!! GO SARAH!!!!!!!!

Ted and Sarah are the team!!!!

18 posted on 09/22/2013 11:34:47 AM PDT by pollywog ("O Thou who changest not, abide with me.".......)
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To: svcw

He’s right. With capitulating RINO’s working with the Democrats... Nothing WILL change.


19 posted on 09/22/2013 11:34:52 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: BarnacleCenturion

I respectfully disagree with your assessment, though you stated it well. Paul’s statements are devastating cryptonite at this point in the debate, and don’t count out the Paul family’s ability to be astonishingly cynical and political, even as their drones pretend they are neither.

He is on the wrong side of history with these comments, even if there is some technical merit to them.


20 posted on 09/22/2013 11:36:03 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: BarnacleCenturion

B/S. Read James Madison’s words and instructions to the House to block runaway government in Federalist no 58 (excerpted and linked above in comment no 1). The House has the power to deny funds through the appropriations clause. Read it and weep.


21 posted on 09/22/2013 11:36:06 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: BarnacleCenturion

I dunno.

Of every single Republican in the House or the Senate, I have seen one (and only one) Republican stand up strong and resolute.

Cruz.

Palin isn’t in the House or the Senate, but she seems to be the only other person out there.

I think you may be under-estimating Cruz.


22 posted on 09/22/2013 11:37:57 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: BarnacleCenturion

I didn’t attack Rand Paul I demonstrated where he was wrong. Perhaps he’ll be able to see the light. Read Federalist No. 58. James Madison was no piker.


23 posted on 09/22/2013 11:39:35 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Then what good are you, Randy?


24 posted on 09/22/2013 11:41:36 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (When your policy is to rob Peter to pay Paul, you can count on enthusiastic support from Paul.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Paul just gave the enemy a shot in the arm.

..aiding and abetting the enemy...

a ‘caver’ - not presidential material

25 posted on 09/22/2013 11:42:21 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits)
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To: The Cajun
He sees Ted Cruz as his biggest challenge to the GOP nomination. Anything he can do to diminish Cruz now is a help to him.

I've been watching Rand since he came to prominence, and it seems to me that he wants it too much.

Ted wants it too, but he's been very gracious in crediting Paul whenever possible.

That's character.

26 posted on 09/22/2013 11:43:17 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

27 posted on 09/22/2013 11:45:26 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits)
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To: oldbrowser

how can we win @ the 2014 election boxes while elections are grossly and transparently fraudulent, and no one is even speaking about stopping the fraud?


28 posted on 09/22/2013 11:46:16 AM PDT by stickywillie (how come there are no father-in-law jokes?)
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To: BarnacleCenturion

Obama threatens to shutdown the government, but he won’t. He’s a coward. A petulant child throwing a tantrum because he cannot get his way. If Reid/Obama attempt to shutdown the government, they’ll lose big time. The People (the ones who count and there are enough of us) see through this crap. Let the whiners howl. we the people have the House’s back all the way.

A government shutdown accomplishes nothing but laying off a bunch of dead weight federal employees anyway. Bring it on.

If Obama/Reid & the GOP-e wish to see another tea party sweep in 2014/2016, I see no better way than to piss on the people.

Rebellion is brewing!

Don’t tread on me!


29 posted on 09/22/2013 11:47:07 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law;

It wouldn't be surprising if some "experts" try to argue that the House is obligated to fund Obamacare as a consequence of it being the established "Law of the Land," Madison & the wisdom of true Constitutional scholars be damned. Don't count on the current SCOTUS to rule on this point -- the time to act is NOW anyway.

Let's see who steps up to do what they were elected to do ...

30 posted on 09/22/2013 11:47:12 AM PDT by mikrofon (NObamacare)
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Washington probably couldn’t have defeated the Royal Empire either.


31 posted on 09/22/2013 11:47:31 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: oldbrowser

Shut the gov’t down until Nov 2014.


32 posted on 09/22/2013 11:47:34 AM PDT by Paladin2 (h)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Rand is a little green (inexperienced) and Cruz probably comes from a conventional conservative point of view while libertarians still can shift based on which way the wind blows, it’s something like this if not exactly.


33 posted on 09/22/2013 11:47:58 AM PDT by BeadCounter (Really? Syria?)
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To: Jim Robinson
Psst ... lest we forget, 2014 is an election year in which several seats in the democratic-controlled US Senate are in play.

Just sayin'

34 posted on 09/22/2013 11:48:00 AM PDT by jamaksin
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To: BarnacleCenturion
That’s not what this is about.

You got your opinion, I got mine.

Defeatism being portrayed is not what we need right now.

I'm damned tired of political considerations taking precedent over what's right for the country, that's why we're in the shape we're in, holding on by a thread.

Paul is either with us us on stopping OBozocare or he's not.
Saying it can't be stop is not with us, plus not true.

35 posted on 09/22/2013 11:48:30 AM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin, Ted Cruz......Nuff said.)
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To: RugerMini14

Paul is also on record urging conservatives to accept immigration reform. No, thanks. I’ll take Ted Cruz.


36 posted on 09/22/2013 11:50:49 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

“Paul’s statements are devastating cryptonite at this point in the debate”

You are blowing it out of proportion. This was an off the cuff remark answering some guys question. Cruz said the same thing last week in a press release, before the house voted. Many people in the house were not happy about that.

If the filibuster succeeds, we are going into a government shutdown. Obama has no reason to negotiate. In a shutdown he can spend the money coming in, in any way that he wants. And then at some point the republicans will cave because the government can’t stay shutdown forever. Many people haven’t really thought this through.


37 posted on 09/22/2013 11:51:54 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: tallyhoe

Is she off Team Rand yet?


38 posted on 09/22/2013 11:52:36 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
That's character.

Difference between a statesman and a politician.
I truly believe Cruz is a statesman.

39 posted on 09/22/2013 11:54:15 AM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin, Ted Cruz......Nuff said.)
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To: BarnacleCenturion
Rand is being practical, but he also says he's not giving in. From the article:

“I will continue to lead the fight until we win,” he said. “I will not vote for any CR that funds Obamacare and if there is one penny for Obamacare I will vote no.

Everybody call your senators!
40 posted on 09/22/2013 11:55:30 AM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: The Cajun; BarnacleCenturion

Apparently, BarnacleCenturion is not with us. This is FR! We fight against this unconstitutional big government socialist crap! We fight every step pf the way with whatever tools are at our disposal. We do not whine, cry or become defeatists! We do not offer aid and comfort to the enemy. We back our conservatives in the congress who are trying to get the job done, 100%! Do not stab them in the back. I hate surrender monkeys.

We have not yet begun to fight!

Don’t tread on me!!


41 posted on 09/22/2013 11:56:04 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: The Cajun

It’s not the first time he’s said that it will be defeated.
I still think the GOPe wants Obamacare hanging around for the 2014 cycle. In the meantime, we pay the price. Literally.


42 posted on 09/22/2013 11:56:14 AM PDT by RedMDer (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)
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To: Jim Robinson

Yeah, I really wonder what the context of Rand’s words were...did he really mean to surrender on Obamacare? I cannot believe he would say or do that...the media, ever anxious to help the Assclown, would leap at any phrased wording that seems to help their little tin god.

Has Rand been out to correct the media’s misrepresentation of his statement?


43 posted on 09/22/2013 11:58:00 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Jim Robinson
Sarah Palin to Chris Wallace:
Expose which GOPers are trying to ‘trash Sen Cruz’

44 posted on 09/22/2013 11:58:15 AM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: The Cajun; BarnacleCenturion

By the way, Sarah Palin has Cruz’s back on this one (as we knew she would):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3069868/posts


45 posted on 09/22/2013 12:01:18 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
I have zero confidence in the House ever asserting themselves again. They have become the liberal in the house down the street with the No Trespassing sign. When the mutt from the White House comes by and urinates on their tree, they will not defend their property. And when you are unwilling or unable to defend your property, it is in all actuality no longer your property.

I have no faith in any fiscal conservatism nor conservative values taking any more than a window dressing role in the House. There's too much at stake now to cut off the gravy train; they can't reign in government costs without touching their own precious plundering.

As for the constitutional sledgehammer that is appropriations, like just about every power that the House is empowered with, they'd effectively given that power away, and have no guts with which to defend that power.

If they passed appropriations which did not fund ObamaCare, some federal judge will step forward and say ‘Congress passed a law stating that this was to be done with funds, therefore they've already given the authorization to withdraw from the treasury what funds are required to continue this law, and the House will rage and fume for the cameras and sigh with relief that they don't have to go into the midterms having stolen some granny's health care.

I'm tired of watching the snake oil salesman's pitch. I'm tired of the whiner down the street who complains about someone’s dog coming onto his lawn and does not a damn thing about it. The GOP could easily overwhelm liberals in contests across the country, just by rolling back the liberal agenda, and they'll do nothing, as they financially benefit from that agenda.

And at the end of the day, when you have professional politicians and career public servants, that financial agenda overrules everything else. Look at Obama, he went into the White House with personal assets under 2 million, and this year he topped 40 million; some damn good investing of that presidential salary, huh?

46 posted on 09/22/2013 12:08:04 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Paul is as wacky as his daddy.... Forget about him and concentrate on the ones that matter! Put the pressure on those unnamed cowards!


47 posted on 09/22/2013 12:09:39 PM PDT by rrrod (at home in Medellin Colombia)
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To: Jim Robinson

“GOP ‘probably can’t defeat’ Obamacare.”

YES WE CAN!


48 posted on 09/22/2013 12:13:03 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: SharpRightTurn

Yes we will!


49 posted on 09/22/2013 12:15:24 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
It boils down to this for me, weak president, on the ropes at every turn, scandals up the wazoo with his whole administration and government agencies, the economy going down the dumper more and more daily, if we can't fight now, when will we fight?

Time has come, the total failure gets his way no longer, the country can't take it.

50 posted on 09/22/2013 12:18:15 PM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin, Ted Cruz......Nuff said.)
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