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Not Yours to Give (The Video)
PA Pastors ^ | Davy Crockett

Posted on 09/25/2013 9:48:26 AM PDT by ru4liberty

Do you have 22 1/2 minutes to invest in this reminder of how we have gotten so far off-course from the original founding of our nation?

P.S. I know this information has been posted on FR before, but I couldn't find a video version. This posting is for those who learn and retain information better by way of a visual/audio presentation.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: constitutional; republic; shaltnotsteal
Not Yours to Give (video)
1 posted on 09/25/2013 9:48:26 AM PDT by ru4liberty
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To: ru4liberty

I didn’t watch the video. But I noticed “Davy Crockett” as the author.

If it’s saying Davy Crockett made a speech on the floor of congress denying Congresses ability to help the poor, it’s probably fake. There is no such speech recorded in the annals of Congress. That speech didn’t show up for 70 years after Crocketts death. And is believed to have been propaganda created by the Whigs party.

And then some idiot congressman, believed it was real, and read it into the Congressional minutes a few years ago.


2 posted on 09/25/2013 9:55:06 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: ru4liberty

I didn’t watch the video. But I noticed “Davy Crockett” as the author.

If it’s saying Davy Crockett made a speech on the floor of congress denying Congresses ability to help the poor, it’s probably fake. There is no such speech recorded in the annals of Congress. That speech didn’t show up for 70 years after Crocketts death. And is believed to have been propaganda created by the Whigs party.

And then some idiot congressman, believed it was real, and read it into the Congressional minutes a few years ago.


3 posted on 09/25/2013 9:55:07 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
If it’s saying Davy Crockett made a speech on the floor of congress denying Congresses ability to help the poor, it’s probably fake. There is no such speech recorded in the annals of Congress. That speech didn’t show up for 70 years after Crocketts death. And is believed to have been propaganda created by the Whigs party.

And he wasn't born on a mountaintop in Tennessee, either.

Mr. niteowl77

4 posted on 09/25/2013 10:22:30 AM PDT by niteowl77 ("There's nothing a vulture hates more than biting into a glass eye.")
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To: niteowl77

He was born in TN though, just not on a mountaintop.


5 posted on 09/25/2013 10:26:59 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

If you had watched the video, you would have seen and heard that addresses in the opening statements.


6 posted on 09/25/2013 10:31:38 AM PDT by ru4liberty
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To: ru4liberty

addresses = addressed


7 posted on 09/25/2013 10:32:09 AM PDT by ru4liberty
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To: ru4liberty

So what did they do? Acknowledge Davy didn’t say it and then use it anyway?

Or did they try to claim Davy actually did say it?


8 posted on 09/25/2013 10:34:14 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: ru4liberty

So what did they do? Acknowledge Davy didn’t say it and then use it anyway?

Or did they try to claim Davy actually did say it?


9 posted on 09/25/2013 10:34:14 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re an intelligent person. I’ll let you figure it out.


10 posted on 09/25/2013 10:36:07 AM PDT by ru4liberty
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To: DannyTN
Like the "kilt him a bear when he was only three" thing, it made for better lyrics and that was about it.

But as to the "not yours to give" speech, it is odd that nobody can find any contemporary evidence of it, and I suspect that if Crockett had actually come up with such an appealing bit of oratory, he'd have gotten water out of that particular well on a regular basis.

Mr. niteowl77

11 posted on 09/25/2013 10:42:05 AM PDT by niteowl77 ("There's nothing a vulture hates more than biting into a glass eye.")
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To: niteowl77; ru4liberty

It’s entirely possible, Crockett wouldn’t have agreed with it.

In any event, Crockett’s not here to defend himself and to use his name to promote a position is wrong. Even if you do disclaim it in the introductory remarks.


12 posted on 09/25/2013 11:19:30 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: niteowl77; ru4liberty

It’s entirely possible, Crockett wouldn’t have agreed with it.

In any event, Crockett’s not here to defend himself and to use his name to promote a position is wrong. Even if you do disclaim it in the introductory remarks.


13 posted on 09/25/2013 11:19:30 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: niteowl77; DannyTN

Am I to understand that you don’t agree with the premise of the story? Whether it’s historically accurate or simply a parable demonstrating what’s constitutional and what’s not, surely you understand the wisdom and warning imparted in the story. Do you also discount the truths taught in Biblical parables because they’re only allegorical in nature?


14 posted on 09/25/2013 11:51:46 AM PDT by ru4liberty
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To: ru4liberty
I can't speak for DannyTN, but that purported Crockett speech is historically suspect. It may be a nice tale, and it may even contain truth, but it probably ought to be attributed to whoever actually wrote it or at least be labeled as apocryphal.

If you want to equate that reply with a perceived lack of scriptural scruples, then cast that stone. I'm done with the topic, and I bid you a good day.

Mr. niteowl77

15 posted on 09/25/2013 12:05:03 PM PDT by niteowl77 ("There's nothing a vulture hates more than biting into a glass eye.")
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To: ru4liberty
If the story is what it usually is when Davy Crockett's good name gets trotted out, to equate it to Biblical parables is a gross injustice to the Bible.

No I don't agree. I see a Biblical mandate to Kings to help the poor. I see a Biblical mandate to individals, to churches and to rulers. And the existence of one or two of the other mandates does not negate the third.

I see it in the story of Nebuccanezzar, where the King was ordered to give to the needy.

I see it in Jer 22 where the length of the king's rulership is related to how he treats the poor. And I take from that a warning that if "We the People" wish to continue our rule, we better use our power of rulership to help the poor.

I also logically reject the argument because it's government policies, specifically the lowering of the import tariffs, that have caused our current high unemployment. If government is the cause, then government should help alleviate the hardship.

16 posted on 09/25/2013 12:06:38 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: ru4liberty
If the story is what it usually is when Davy Crockett's good name gets trotted out, to equate it to Biblical parables is a gross injustice to the Bible.

No I don't agree. I see a Biblical mandate to Kings to help the poor. I see a Biblical mandate to individals, to churches and to rulers. And the existence of one or two of the other mandates does not negate the third.

I see it in the story of Nebuccanezzar, where the King was ordered to give to the needy.

I see it in Jer 22 where the length of the king's rulership is related to how he treats the poor. And I take from that a warning that if "We the People" wish to continue our rule, we better use our power of rulership to help the poor.

I also logically reject the argument because it's government policies, specifically the lowering of the import tariffs, that have caused our current high unemployment. If government is the cause, then government should help alleviate the hardship.

17 posted on 09/25/2013 12:06:39 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
To put it another way, I'm for lean efficient government. But in no way am I for shirking government duties. And I do see the poor as a government duty.

They are best helped by a job. Thus, they are best helped by policies that promote and protect our free market, such as the import tariffs, our founding father's set up.

But direct help is sometimes necessary and I'm supportive of those programs. I'd like to see more fraud prevention and the border closed to lower the supply of labor.

18 posted on 09/25/2013 12:13:14 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
To put it another way, I'm for lean efficient government. But in no way am I for shirking government duties. And I do see the poor as a government duty.

They are best helped by a job. Thus, they are best helped by policies that promote and protect our free market, such as the import tariffs, our founding father's set up.

But direct help is sometimes necessary and I'm supportive of those programs. I'd like to see more fraud prevention and the border closed to lower the supply of labor.

19 posted on 09/25/2013 12:13:15 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

This story is in his autobiography.


20 posted on 09/25/2013 12:26:41 PM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: bmwcyle
Not the "Not yours to give" speech.

This from wikipedia...

In an 1884 book written by dime novelist[20] and non-fiction author[21] Edward S. Ellis, Crockett is recorded as giving a speech (the "Not Yours to Give" speech) critical of his Congressional colleagues who were willing to spend taxpayer dollars to help a widow of a US Navy man who had lived beyond his naval service, but would not contribute their own salary for a week to the cause.[22] Ellis describes how the once popular proposal died in the Congress largely as a result of the speech. It was said that a man from Crockett's district, Horatio Bunce, converted Crockett to such a course of action by explaining that the Constitution did not allow Congress to give charity.[22]

The authenticity of this speech is questioned, however, since the Register of Debates and the Congressional Globe do not contain transcripts of speeches made on the House floor. Crockett is on record opposing a similar bill and offering personal support to the family of a General Brown in April 1828,[23] but Crockett considered applications for relief on a case by case basis and sometimes voted in favor of the applicant.[24] An article by Crockett biographer James R. Boylston debunking the "Not Yours to Give" speech was published in the November 2004 issue of The Crockett Chronicle. [25]

21 posted on 09/25/2013 12:31:50 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: bmwcyle
Not the "Not yours to give" speech.

This from wikipedia...

In an 1884 book written by dime novelist[20] and non-fiction author[21] Edward S. Ellis, Crockett is recorded as giving a speech (the "Not Yours to Give" speech) critical of his Congressional colleagues who were willing to spend taxpayer dollars to help a widow of a US Navy man who had lived beyond his naval service, but would not contribute their own salary for a week to the cause.[22] Ellis describes how the once popular proposal died in the Congress largely as a result of the speech. It was said that a man from Crockett's district, Horatio Bunce, converted Crockett to such a course of action by explaining that the Constitution did not allow Congress to give charity.[22]

The authenticity of this speech is questioned, however, since the Register of Debates and the Congressional Globe do not contain transcripts of speeches made on the House floor. Crockett is on record opposing a similar bill and offering personal support to the family of a General Brown in April 1828,[23] but Crockett considered applications for relief on a case by case basis and sometimes voted in favor of the applicant.[24] An article by Crockett biographer James R. Boylston debunking the "Not Yours to Give" speech was published in the November 2004 issue of The Crockett Chronicle. [25]

22 posted on 09/25/2013 12:31:50 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: ru4liberty
Here's a YouTube of a 50-year-old cartoon that does a good job of predicting what's happening now (starts at :19 and lasts about 10 mins.).
23 posted on 09/25/2013 12:45:26 PM PDT by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: ru4liberty

abe lincoln did say that 95% of the things one reads about davey crockett on the internets, is just made up.

teeman

i like the parable analogy. government cannot help the poor, without first stealing from the producers... render unto caesar, but only what is due caesar, take care of the poor through community, that way they will feel gratitude instead of an entitlement mentality.


24 posted on 09/27/2013 7:17:42 AM PDT by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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