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Examining the "Let It Collapse" Theory
Rush Limbaugh.com ^ | September 26, 2013 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 09/26/2013 4:55:49 PM PDT by Kaslin

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: I have received e-mails today from people who have heard about West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin. What Joe Manchin has said today is that he might break ranks from the Democrats and vote for a funding measure that delays the individual mandate. Now, the employer mandate has been delayed until 2015, but the individual mandate has not been. The employers got a one-year waiver from being required to provide insurance for their employees. But the individual citizen is still required, mandated to have insurance, or pay a fine. And Manchin has said that he is willing to break ranks and vote for a funding measure that delays Obamacare's individual mandate.

Now, this, folks, is all well and good, but I want to remind you of a little history. I was reminded of it this morning in a very persuasive way, and I want to pass that on to you. While you might get all excited about Joe Manchin saying one thing or another, don't forget that he's for Obamacare. He voted for it. And keep this in mind as well. There are Republicans, by the way, in reaction to Ted Cruz, who disagree with what Cruz did and Cruz's whole strategery. You've seen it. You've heard it. Republicans, operatives, consultants, elected officials out there say, "Go ahead, let this thing get implemented. Just let it fall apart 'cause it's gonna fall apart. Let it collapse, and it's gonna be on Obama, and it's gonna be on the Democrats. And let's get these Democrats on the record supporting this."

It seems to be a frequently heard Republican strategery, "Let's get these Democrats on the record supporting this now because it's gonna collapse." Let me tell you something about this. It may collapse. You think Obama's gonna get blamed for that? Who's gonna get blamed when it collapses? Who assigns blame in America? The media. The states are gonna get blamed if they got Republican governors, and Republicans in Congress are gonna get blamed for all this that's going on now if it collapses. But there's another aspect of this that's a little bit frustrating to me.

I mean, the idea that we can't stop it so just let it collapse is akin to, "Go ahead and let the Democrats win and let people see how rotten the country gets and they'll never get reelected again." That was a strategery that people wanted to employ with Clinton in 1992. It never works. It assumes that every voter is top-flight informed and is aware of the ideological differences in the two parties -- and they aren't.

They're not aware of the ideological differences, many voters, and many of them are low-information anyway. But can I take you back to 2010? Do you remember how Obamacare passed? When you stop and think about this and relate it to what's happening today, this is what can really rub you raw. In 2010, Obamacare passed, and it passed with only Democrat votes.

For every Republican consultant and every Republican strategist and every Republican commentator who's out there saying, "Let's get these Democrats on the record supporting it," they already are! They voted for this. In fact, they were the only ones who voted for it. Now let's add insult to injury. What else happened in 2010? The Tea Party. The 2010 midterms resulted in a Democrat Party shellacking.

They lost nearly 700 elected seats all over this country, from the House of Representatives, the state legislatures, and all the way down to mayor and town council. They got drubbed, and it was because of Obamacare. All the way back in 2010, a majority of the people of this country didn't want it. They're already on record. So when you hear a Republican say, "Well, let's get these guys on record," they already are!

My point is, there has been enough evidence to hang an albatross around the Democrats' necks for the last three years. The Republicans have just chosen not to do it. Instead, they've been cozying up on amnesty and been fearful of a government shutdown. So when a guy like Manchin comes along, it's, "Hey, Joe Manchin says he will break ranks to vote for funding measure that delays Obama's individual mandate! Hey, hey."

This thing only became law because of Manchin and everybody else!

He already voted for this. The idea that there's a Democrat now that's opposed to Obamacare? He's not renouncing his support for Obamacare . It may be a fine point, but the fact of the matter is, every Democrat is already on record supporting this because they're the only ones who voted for it -- and despite that, the Republicans the last two years have still felt it necessary to attack the Tea Party and not the Democrats.

This week the Republicans have felt it necessary to attack Ted Cruz and not Obamacare. Ted Cruz didn't vote for it. The Tea Party didn't vote for it. The Republican Party owes its majority in the House of Representatives to the Tea Party and the midterm elections in 2010. Yet Cruz ended up being the target of genuine anger from people like Senator McCain and others on the Republican side.

The only reason we're here today talking about this, the only reason that we face this fundamental transformation of this country is because of the Democrats, who are being given a pass. Now, all of a sudden, one of 'em comes out and says, "You know, I might support a measure that delays Obamacare," and we want to applaud a damn Democrat while we still crucify one of our own. Mind-boggling, it is. Yeah, I know. The measure to defund or delay the individual mandate hadn't even been written yet.

The Democrats know you don't like this. They know that vote that they extended for this is a big problem for some of them in the 2014 midterms, so a bunch of them are gonna say this to get on record. It's much like the Republicans said that they're gonna do everything they can to get rid of this, until the moment of truth came, and then they didn't do everything they could to get rid of it. But they said they were going to.

So here comes Manchin saying he might -- he could, it would possibly happen -- break ranks and vote for a measure that delays the Obamacare individual mandate. The fact is, Obama's still out there selling this. The fact is that the people he really needs even now for this thing to be fully implemented he's buying off by giving them waivers or offering them subsidies, such as members of Congress and their staff. The fact that he's out there selling it is clear indication even now that there is nowhere near any popular support for this.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Folks, as I was perusing the news doing show prep today, it was really striking to note how many stories, how many articles that are out there this morning that detail all of the problems in Obamacare. It's nothing you don't know. You've heard it all. We have gone to great lengths since the beginning days of this. You know all the details. But what's fascinating to me as I went through show prep today is how many articles are out this morning with new and troubling details about Obamacare.

That, to me, shows that the Drive-By Media now think Obamacare is totally safe from being repealed or defunded and now it's time, for whatever journalistic reasons, to get all of the truth, the details, the news about Obamacare out there. Now, as I say, most of the news is information that the regular daily listener of this show has known about for more than three years, but the media has never reported it.

You know, all of these details, all of the waivers, all of the exemptions, all the fines. The hard numbers, all of these things have never been in the Drive-By Media, but it's starting to show up. All of a sudden we're now being told about it so that when people start seeing Obamacare up close and personal starting next week, the Drive-Bys can say, "Well, we reported that." The news media are now covering their assets, if you will, and they're doing it as late as possible.

Again, this tells me that they think it's safe now to tell everybody about it. It's amazing, all of these reports on how the true costs of Obamacare do not include the high deductibles or the out-of-pocket expense for treatment and medication. I mean, they're things that we've talked about here for three years but the Drive-Bys are just now getting around to reporting it. It's so they can say, "Well, we told you about this. This shouldn't surprise any of you."

Daniel Henninger in the Wall Street Journal today says that next Tuesday when Obamacare begins its final and full implementation, what will happen is "the discrediting of the entitlement state." In fact, his line in his piece today the Wall Street Journal is, " The discrediting of the entitlement state begins next Tuesday. Let it happen," and what he means is, this can't work. It's going to collapse.

People have expectations based on what Obama is telling them even today of how cheap it's gonna be, of how plentiful it's gonna be, how easy it's gonna be, and none of that's gonna be -- and it's gonna collapse, and people are gonna be livid and outraged. The theory goes that as it collapses, people will all of a sudden realize that government can't do this better than the private sector, that all of this has been a lie, that all of this has been trumped up, and that we should no longer trust government for this.

I'm sorry, but that's not the history of liberal entitlements. This stuff has to be beaten back. If the theory that it discredits itself worked, FDR would not be in the top five greatest presidents ever in as many people's minds as he is in this country. If liberalism discredited itself, Obama woulda never gotten elected, and the New Deal woulda gone by the wayside, and LBJ woulda never gotten the Great Society. Liberalism does not discredit itself. It has to be explained and beaten back.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: An e-mail I checked at the bottom-of-the-hour break said, "Come on, Rush! Give us appear example of what you mean that the Drive-Bys are reporting things that we already know." Okay, here's something, for instance, from The Politico. "Exchanges May Have High Out-of-Pocket Costs." We've told you over and over who is running the exchanges. They are left-wing activists like the NAACP and unions, gay rights groups.

They're the ones getting the money to staff the exchanges -- both the brick and mortar and the websites -- where you're gonna get to get insurance, and they're siphoning off some of the money. It's a slush fund. The exchanges are slush fund monies, they're payoffs to the Democrats from their supporters. That's one thing. But we're now told that they're going to have "high out-of-pocket costs"?

Yeah, and we're also told that the software isn't ready to go.

Well, we told you that a couple of weeks ago. It's just now showing up in the Drive-By Media. In The Politico, from their article, "Consumers may have to dig a little deeper into their wallets to pay for health care in the Obamacare insurance exchanges, according to a new analysis by Avalere Health. The study of six states suggests that consumers could face steep cost-sharing requirements -- like co-payments, co-insurance and deductibles -- layered on top of their monthly premiums.

"The health law sets exchange enrollees' maximum annual out-of-pocket costs at $6,350. But many people won't get near that limit, and deductibles for typical exchange plans can run twice as high as the average employer-sponsored plan. It's a reminder that despite news trumpeted Wednesday by the White House, suggesting exchange premiums will be lower than expected, consumers will have additional numbers to crunch."

But see, it was important for the White House and their media minions to trumpet those bogus estimates so that nobody would listen to the lunatic Ted Cruz, who was telling everybody the truth in his speech or filibuster. So the regime puts out this notion yesterday that the costs of implementing Obamacare at the exchanges are gonna be very low and so forth, and the media duly reports it.

But then today when Cruz is finished, here comes the truth about all these add-on costs, which we've told you about over the past few months. Here's more from The Politico story: "[T]he report estimates that a silver plan would have a deductible ranging from $1,500 to $5,000, which is higher than the average deductible ($1,135) for an employer-sponsored plan. 'Consumers will need to balance lower monthly premiums against the potential for unpredictable, expensive, out-of-pocket costs in plans with higher deductibles,' Caroline Pearson, vice president of Avalere Health, said in a statement."

Well, if you've been listening to this program regularly, you knew this was going to happen because you had been given the data and the documentation of how all these costs were being underestimated and undersold so that Obama could carry on this notion that Obamacare was gonna be cheaper for everybody. "The study also suggests exchange enrollees," which is everybody, "could see higher drug co-pays and co-insurance than those in employer-sponsored plans."

But wait a minute! You were gonna be able to keep your employer-based health care if you liked it! No, you weren't ever gonna be able to keep your employer. We told you that, too. Anyway, all of this stuff is starting to show up now in the Drive-By Media. But this little story about the additional costs at the exchanges? (sigh) This is why the theory is out there that this is ready to collapse, that people are just totally unprepared for the absolute mess that awaits them.

And that when they're confronted with it, there's nobody to blame but government, because the government did this, and who is the government? Obama! This is the theory among those who say let it collapse, because then the entitlement state will be discredited. Now, Daniel Henninger again, the Wall Street Journal, "Obamacare's Achilles' heel is technology. The software glitches are going to drive people insane. Creating really large software for institutions is hard."

This has been delayed, by the way, because Sebelius said it isn't going to work.

But this is why the regime has eliminated any verification for subsidies. This is why the regime has eliminated so many requirements so that the problems will not be faced. So we'll have to see on this collapse business. I'm not so certain, using intelligence guided by experience, as I say. It'd be really nice, folks, if all this, when it collapses, people immediately pointed a finger at Obama and the Democrats because they're the only ones who voted for it.

But, the Republicans all this time have not been educating people on what's wrong with this, and instead they have been portrayed as opponents, naysayers, negativists. It's Obama who's appeared positive in all this. "Oh, this is gonna be wonderful! Oh, it's gonna be cheap." So when it collapses, the media, you think they're gonna support the idea that it's Obama's fault? Who they gonna point to?

They're gonna be pointing to the naysayers, the negativists, the Democrats, the Republicans, "who didn't want it to work" and all this sort of stuff, and the governors in the Republican states where these exchanges are. So the task to properly assign blame for this is going to be Herculean for us once again because of that natural conclusion. See, over the course of the recent past, if there'd been the ideological argument...

I had a guy send me a note last night who wants to possibly advertise on the program. He's a very, very intelligent guy, and as he closed his note, he said, "Can you believe ever believe...? This guy's IQ is about 230, by the way, okay? He's written countless books, is an accomplished historian, although it's not his profession. He says to me, "Did you ever in your wildest dreams think Obama would be this bad?"

I wrote back and I said, "Look, I don't mean to sound braggadocios, but, yeah. It's why I said 'I hope he fails.' I mean, he told us what he was gonna do five days before he was inaugurated. He said, 'The fundamental transformation of this country begins in five days,' not 'a' fundamental, but 'the' fundamental. He's told us he is who he is. He was never a moderate. He's always been a radical."

This note from this guy that I got, I think, summed it up for a whole lot of people on our side. From the get-go, he's just another Democrat, just the latest Democrat to win. He's actually gonna be someone moderate, they thought. Now they're a shocked and stunned, which I intellectually don't understand. My IQ isn't half what this guy's is, and I said to him, "We wouldn't even be here now, we wouldn't be hoping for a popular uprising against all this if we had properly identified this guy ideologically for people.

"But we didn't because we were afraid to." I am the only one. The Republican Party didn't want to get anywhere near it. Very few people on our side really wanted to talk about what a radical leftist extremist Obama was. They were all afraid to. So when I say "we," I'm exempting myself. Of course I didn't. But it's such a lost opportunity. Now the same people are waiting for everybody else to figure out, when this collapses, that the entitlement state doesn't work and that statism doesn't work and liberalism doesn't work.

Well, if Obama hasn't been blamed for anything yesterday that's gone wrong, for the economy, for jobs, for the debt --if he hadn't blamed for any of that -- why is he gonna get blamed for this? The answers is, "Well, it's a natural conclusion to make, Rush. It's Obamacare! It's his law and so forth." Well, I hope that they're right. I hope that if it collapses, people properly understand who's to blame for this. I'm not trying to be a negativist. I'm trying to be a realist.

I'm the mayor of Realville here. We'll see. Time will tell. Here, from the AP. Ricardo Alonzo-Zaldivar. "Administration officials are quietly telling key interest groups to expect initial glitches signing up online for coverage under" Obamacare. " Two sources tell The Associated Press..." This is exactly what I'm talking about. You've known this, that they're just now, at AP, writing stories about there might be trouble here.

"Two sources tell The Associated Press that small businesses will not be able to enroll online starting Oct. 1 when new health insurance markets go live. Instead, one of the sources, a person who was briefed on the situation, said business owners will initially have to mail or fax their information so that they can enroll. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because an official announcement hasn't yet been made.

"Separately, the [regime] told Hispanic groups that the Spanish-language version of its HealthCare.gov website will be not be ready to handle enrollments for a few weeks. An estimated 10 million Latinos are eligible for coverage." Nothing is ready! Not one aspect of this is going to work. You all know that. This is exactly what I mean about the media all of a sudden now getting people ready for what's coming.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Now, let me give you the conclusion of The Politico piece that I cited mere moments ago as evidence of the media all of a sudden detailing for everybody what's wrong with Obamacare. The Politico article ends with a warning that higher out-of-pocket expenses are going to keep people from going to the doctor. Well, then why did we do Obamacare again? Politico says this. This is the regime's mouthpiece. "Higher out-of-pocket expenses." Do you remember, folks, that the cap on out-of-pocket expenses has been delayed? There is, in Obamacare, a limit on how much you will have to pay out of pocket. Those caps, those limits have been delayed for a year.

So there's no limit on out-of-pocket expenses. And The Politico says that they are sizeable enough that they might keep people from going to the doctor, just won't have the money to afford it. Why are we doing this again? Why are we doing Obamacare? If it results in costs to individuals so high they can't afford them, then why are we doing this? Was it to insure the uninsured? Was it to make it more affordable? Was it to make health care coverage more plentiful? Why are we doing this? Remember, this is not me analyzing. This is The Politico, ending with a warning: Higher out-of-pocket expenses are gonna keep people from going to the doctor.

Everything we were promised about this has turned out to be untrue. It has not lowered costs. It is a new tax. We cannot keep our plans if we like them. We cannot keep our doctor if we like him, and even if we could, he may not still be working. He may quit! Even if you get to keep your doctor, good luck in finding him. He might be at the cabin fishing for salmon. This law, this whole thing should go down in history as the biggest bait-and-switch ever.

The Politico, by the way, does not mention that the caps on out-of-pocket expenses have been delayed for a year. They don't mention that. These caps were there to protect you. These caps were in there to make sure that you don't get raped by evil insurance or evil doctors or evil pharmacists or evil whoever. And they've been delayed for a year. So there's no limit on what you can be charged above and beyond for out of pocket things not covered by your insurance. And they're still gonna end up at the end of all this, 30 million people uninsured even after it's implemented. Why are we doing this again? Well, why did we do this again?

END TRANSCRIPT


TOPICS: Editorial; US: West Virginia
KEYWORDS: 0carenightmare; cruzfilibuster; joemanchin; manchin; obamacare; rushlive; rushtranscript; westvirginia
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1 posted on 09/26/2013 4:55:49 PM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

In other words, Rush is calling for Obamacare to simply collaspe in itself.


2 posted on 09/26/2013 5:02:37 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Kaslin

The federal government has no constitutional authority to do any of this!

The house most wield the constitutional tool it has to deny funding for this illegal, unconstitutional, Marxist expansionist boondoggle!!

Deny, deny, deny until the cows come home. There’s nothing more important for the house to take up. This is for all the marbles!!


3 posted on 09/26/2013 5:03:06 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Kaslin

Bad government programs don’t get cut - they get cash an prized to fix them. The attempted coercion of 1/6 of the economy will result in another 1/6 to fix it. If it is funded it stays until the end of the republic - that is roughly a decade.


4 posted on 09/26/2013 5:04:25 PM PDT by DaveyB ("When injustice becomes the law; rebellion becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Kaslin

It won`t collapse. It`s the law. It will be funded by hook or crook.It will not go away. It will only get stronger.

The conversation is, why is the USA to unmoored from the Constitution as to allow a central govt. the ability to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to you as long as it is called a tax.

The Constitution is dead. The USA is a post-post-Republic. It is now a neo-marxist State.


5 posted on 09/26/2013 5:04:26 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45 ( Americans, happy in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own dictators.)
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To: Biggirl

I doubt that. Deny funding is the only way to KILL it!!


6 posted on 09/26/2013 5:04:40 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Thanks a lot, pal. But I’d rather we keep fighting and keep the pressure on the house! We can doi this! Thankyouverymuch.


7 posted on 09/26/2013 5:06:06 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Kaslin

The collapse of Obamacare will bring on single payer socialized medicine. That is the design.


8 posted on 09/26/2013 5:07:01 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (The Presidency is broken.)
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To: Kaslin

When ObamaCare collapses (as it is intended to do) two things will happen.
1. ‘Pubbies will be blamed for not cooperating with the Democrats and Obama in its implementation.
2. Democrats will the resulting “crisis” to ram through “single payer.”


9 posted on 09/26/2013 5:09:43 PM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: Jim Robinson
"The house most wield the constitutional tool it has to deny funding for this illegal, unconstitutional, Marxist expansionist boondoggle!!"

Yep, the GOPe stratergery of electing more RINOs was launched and set sail out out of the harbor only to be sunk in Nov 2012.

The Old Admirals need to be retired and new strategeries developed and pursued with reckless abandon.

2010 was a success. The Tool given then is still in the hands of the useless tools who have no idea how to use it.

10 posted on 09/26/2013 5:10:08 PM PDT by Paladin2 (h)
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To: DaveyB
bad government programs don't get cut

As soon as a pol finds a way to get Obamacare money to contributors, he/she loses interest in getting rid of it.

I could see delaying it though defunding it would be better. But letting it be put in place to punish the dems? They'll never get rid of it. The only things that will happen are (1) the rates will go up every year and (2) our medical care will be in shambles

11 posted on 09/26/2013 5:14:10 PM PDT by grania
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To: Para-Ord.45

“It won`t collapse. It`s the law. It will be funded by hook or crook.It will not go away. It will only get stronger.”

Absolutely! The tax payers fund a lot of things that should have collapsed under their own weight. This will just be another money pit until our whole system collapses from the weight of our debt.


12 posted on 09/26/2013 5:14:29 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: Kaslin

I agree with others. Letting it collapse isn’t a strategy. They will add layer upon layer, fix upon fix, and the behemoth will only grow. No government program I can think of has ever been terminated once people are dependent on it.

The government already blew right past any normal budget limits when they started printing money. They don’t care what Obamacare does to the budget because they don’t really care about deficit spending. Deficit spending to an obamist is meaningless nonsense when he has the keys to the printing press.

Asserting the right to control your health care, in the way that they are doing it, puts them in the drivers seat on so many other levels that they will never give this up without the most bitter of fights. They are this close to running the game permanently; all they have to do is bring this and the immigration deal home and they have complete control for a generation to come. There is no republic past this year. Its do or die now, now, and the GOP acts like this is just one more horse trade.


13 posted on 09/26/2013 5:16:06 PM PDT by marron
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To: Little Ray

That is no news


14 posted on 09/26/2013 5:21:40 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin
Thank you Rush

It may be a fine point, but the fact of the matter is, every Democrat is already on record supporting this because they're the only ones who voted for it
-- and despite that, the Republicans the last two years have still felt it necessary to attack the Tea Party and not the Democrats.

It's much like the Republicans said that they're gonna do everything they can to get rid of this, until the moment of truth came, and then they didn't do everything they could to get rid of it. But they said they were going to.


Doubletalking backstabbing bunch of liars.

If You Don't Defund Obamacare Now- You Own It.

shove your plan b
15 posted on 09/26/2013 5:24:35 PM PDT by novemberslady
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To: Jim Robinson

You said it Mr Robinson


16 posted on 09/26/2013 5:25:07 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Shame on you for being willing to give up just like that


17 posted on 09/26/2013 5:27:16 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: marron

The individual mandate crossed the Rubicon.


18 posted on 09/26/2013 5:29:43 PM PDT by Paladin2 (h)
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To: marron
" Letting it collapse isn’t a strategy."

It's a Hopium smoking hallucination.

19 posted on 09/26/2013 5:31:01 PM PDT by Paladin2 (h)
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To: Biggirl

And even if it does, Obama will not be blamed.


20 posted on 09/26/2013 5:35:32 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: Mike Darancette

Or they will dismantle the parts that “aren’t working,” piece by piece, propagandizing with every move. That will do nothing but strengthen the authoritarian proclivities of this administration, as Egobama does it by executive order and weakens the Constitution even further.

Do what Steve Forbers used to do with the tax code when he was running for president, to great applause and cheers: Drive a spike through its heart and kill it.


21 posted on 09/26/2013 5:36:07 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: firebrand

Forbes.


22 posted on 09/26/2013 5:37:25 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: Jim Robinson

Jim, I am of the opinion that this is the moment in history that Solzhenitsyn spoke of when he was commenting on the destruction of Russia over 100 years ago. We are watching it burn. They are storm trooping through politics. They control the media. They control the messaging. They control the education system, commerce, business, taxing authority... Obama, his regime, and every monstrosity occupying a seat in our government is the cumulative result of 100 years of progressivism destroying the pillars of strong society.

We aren’t witnessing Hitler. We aren’t witnessing Stalin. We aren’t witnessing Mussolini. We are witnessing EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, together, in one heaping spoonful. Solzhenitsyn commented how no one did anything when the storm troopers rounded up the people. This control, this level of manipulation now in place and the precedent being set now with this faux-tax scheme, this is setting the table for full and complete control of our lives from cradle to grave.

And what’s next? What will be the true clarion call for all Americans? When the gun confiscations begin. People will watch as neighbors fire back and are killed in a hail of federally funded gun fire. The dead will be free. The fighters will feel free until they join the dead. The sheep, the cows, those Unwilling to fight or speak will cease to be Americans. They will be slaves. This is the final solution. This is what’s coming.


23 posted on 09/26/2013 5:40:44 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia; Jim Robinson

OK...if all’s lost, what’s the harm in fighting?


24 posted on 09/26/2013 5:51:02 PM PDT by Jane Long (While Marxists continue the fundamental transformation of the USA, progressive RINOs assist!)
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To: rarestia

We are witnessing all that, but the House wields the constitutional tool to end it per James Madison’s power of the purse (ref: Federalist 58). The House can deny funding and the senate and the president can pound sand. And there’s absolutely NOTHING more important at this time to do exactly that. Deny funding and let Obama/Reid et al howl at the moon!!


25 posted on 09/26/2013 5:54:10 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jane Long

There is no harm in it at all, but the political fighting is over. The only fight left is a physical one.

My soul is prepared. I’ve said my peace. I am ready to die at the hands of a federal storm trooper. I believe the tribulation is coming sooner than any of us think.


26 posted on 09/26/2013 5:54:17 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Kaslin

So we can go to single payer? Oh boy!!


27 posted on 09/26/2013 5:55:26 PM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: rarestia

Nope. The house can deny funding per the constitution. the senate has no authority to fund anything. Period. The president can howl, but that’s it. The SCOTUS is powerless in this basic constitutional move. No funding = no obamacare.


28 posted on 09/26/2013 5:57:13 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Kaslin
I think the problem with the "let it collapse" ploy is that "it" doesn't ever collapse quickly enough or far enough to affect the responsible parties, who are the very last to be vulnerable to their own idiot policies.

Does anyone really believe that Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, and the rest of that school of bottom-feeders is going to feel a pinch when that pensioner next door finds she isn't permitted an MRI because they're now rationed? She's their hostage. And their vote. Or else.

29 posted on 09/26/2013 6:01:08 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Kaslin

Let it colapse and send the federal workers home as long as they don’t get retroactive pay!!!

Anyone that can’t live a few months without a pay check, tough shit!!!


30 posted on 09/26/2013 6:05:09 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: Biggirl

Well, sort of. I heard Rush live today, and I picked up a difference sense, supported by this transcript, that even the collapse of Obamacare will not, by itself, derail the leftist power grab it represents, because the media will find a way to blame any failures on the obstinacy of those selfish, evil tea party types who just don’t get how wonderful it all could be if we just ceded total control to gov almighty. So we’re not going to get off easy and just be able to sit passively by while millions finally come to their senses. We’re going to have to fight this in the trenches until we have convinced people in sufficient numbers to make a difference. That’s not pleasant news, but its probably pretty accurate.


31 posted on 09/26/2013 6:08:38 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Uh, even Mark Levin knows this as evidenced by his ‘ Hail Mary’ solution, the Article 5 State convention.

Just telling it like it is. I sincerely doubt the Article 5 solution will ever gain any traction let alone be successful.

Facts are,

1. Constitution is dead. Constitution now is used to destroy the Constitution.

2. Over a generation of neo-marxism in the USA freely accepted ( Medicade/care,HUD,Education,etc.).

3. Total disdain for Natural Law, inalienable rights and the enlightenment.

and the fix will only come when the USA loses it`s Reserve Currency status, dollar collapses, 16 Trillion in debt unpayable, 120 Trillion in unfunded mandates collapses.
When that happens then maybe the USA will return to the original constitution .


32 posted on 09/26/2013 6:44:24 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45 ( Americans, happy in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own dictators.)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Give it a rest. Today’s very straightforward battle is to have the house withhold funding for Obamacare. Accomplish that, then the next very straightforward battle is to deny Obama’s further crippling borrowing, taxing and spending. The house has the sole constitutional authority, power and duty to accomplish all of that and there’s nothing Reid or Obama can do about. Refer to James Madison, Federalist 58 and the power of the purse. It’s not even a tough battle. The house simply needs to hold it together and abide by the constitution and the will of the people who elected them to do specifically this. Deny, deny, deny! There is NOTHING more important to the constitution and the Republic at this time.


33 posted on 09/26/2013 6:57:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Para-Ord.45
Thanks a lot, pal. But I’d rather we keep fighting

YEAH....BOY!

34 posted on 09/26/2013 6:57:53 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Hey RATS! Control your murdering FREAKS!)
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To: Springfield Reformer; Biggirl

The collapse of obamacre is expected by all, including Obama. Their next move will be single payer.

Obamacare must not be allowed to go further. The house has the constitutional authority and duty to kill it as unconstitutional/illegal government expansion and executive branch (ans SCOTUS) power grabbing. Simply do not fund it!


35 posted on 09/26/2013 7:01:30 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Biggirl

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/09/25/ted_cruz_is_fighting_for_freedom

Ted Cruz is fighting for all those Republicans and Reagan Democrats who stayed home on Election Day 2012. The American people don’t want Obamacare. I don’t care what poll you cite, they do not want it. Who can’t make that connection? Americans want somebody to help them push back on this. If you don’t fight, you can’t possibly win. You know what the Republican strategy is? “Let’s let this thing get implemented and let it fall apart. It can’t work.”

I agree. It can’t. It’s a disaster. But that doesn’t mean it’s gonna be fixed! When it doesn’t work, the Washington way is another health care program to fix what’s wrong with this one — and the cycle repeats, and you keep getting bigger government after bigger government. The Kaiser Poll. I really not kidding. I’ve got a health care Stack here, and I could do 21 hours today, just the health care news that I’ve accumulated in the days I’ve been gone. The disasters awaiting everybody just in terms of cost. (interruption)


36 posted on 09/26/2013 7:15:29 PM PDT by sheikdetailfeather (Yuri Bezmenov (KGB Defector) - "Kick The Communists Out of Your Govt. & Don't Accept Their Goodies.")
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To: Kaslin

The argument is we are all supposed to just let it collapse so that Americans can say “see toldya so” and Republicans can get reelected in 2016? ...Uh let’s see....No thanks!

this is NOT about GOP congressbastards getting to stay in their cushy “jobs” on the Hill and Americans can NOT wait until 2016 for their lives to begin to get stabilized! some Americans won’t even be alive in 2016!

We want something done NOW and so far the only person trying to do anything is Ted Cruz (along with a handful of others).


37 posted on 09/26/2013 7:20:53 PM PDT by uncitizen
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To: Kaslin

Thank you for posting.


38 posted on 09/26/2013 7:41:35 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Biggirl

The problem is the damage it does when collapsing. The medical practices and hospitals it forces to close cannot reconstitute overnight. The medical information transferred to the feds isn’t going to be deleted when Obamacare collapses.


39 posted on 09/26/2013 7:42:59 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Jim Robinson

Uhh, Jimbo, the ACA`s funding falls under mandatory appropriations, even in a govt. “shutdown” which we all know never really shuts down, and will not be defunded as much as the GOP could defund Medicade/Care or Social SEcurity.

So, enjoy the ride until the USA loses reserve currency status then watch the usd collapse, gas at 15 bucks a gallon and interest rates at 20%.

Until that, we`re all p***ing in the wind.


40 posted on 09/27/2013 11:11:54 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45 ( Americans, happy in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own dictators.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Uhh, the ACA`s funding falls under mandatory appropriations, even in a govt. “shutdown” which we all know never really shuts down, and will not be defunded as much as the GOP could defund Medicade/Care or Social SEcurity.


41 posted on 09/27/2013 11:12:37 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45 ( Americans, happy in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own dictators.)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Uh, no it doesn’t. The house has total constitutional control over spending.


42 posted on 09/27/2013 12:29:08 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

I understand, but your adherence to Constitutional values are not theirs` anymore. By theirs` I mean both parties except for a few individuals . Nor has it been for over a generation.

“On July 29, 2013, Congressional Research Service outlined the “potential effects of a funding lapse and related government shutdown on the implementation” of the ACA. The CRS found that, if the government were to shut down, funding for the ACA would continue. The CRS report, summarized by Coburn’s office here, finds that the federal government would be able to rely on sources of funding other than annual discretionary appropriations to support implementation (such as multiple-year and no-year discretionary appropriations still available for mandatory funds) and that agencies may continue to perform certain activities under the Antideficiency Act, which generally prohibits operations in the absence of appropriations.”

From the CRS report:

What About Obamacare Implementation Funding From Other Sources?

“The Administration’s FY2014 budget requested $1.4 billion in new funds for CMS Program Management for ongoing ACA implementation activities, plus an additional $400 million for the IRS to administer ACA’s tax-related provisions, including the premium tax credits. In the event that congressional appropriators do not provide any of these funds, or in the event of a temporary lapse in discretionary appropriations that results in a government shutdown, it seems likely that the Administration will continue to rely on alternative sources of funding to support ACA implementation activities.”

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=1933ce98-a8cf-48bc-af5c-b222c18fcb1d

So, Reid could do nothing to stop Cruz from speaking for a few hours which in the end will would not stop cloture since Reid knew both parties were on his side since they are both Ssatist/neo-marxist.

The USA is a post-post Constitutional Republic.

Solution, politically probably none, unless a serious 3rd party emerges .
Most likely, end of reserve usd status, immediate 1 week permanent crash, 20% interest rates and default.


43 posted on 09/27/2013 3:45:08 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45 ( Americans, happy in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own dictators.)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Well, at this particular moment in time, our only hope is that the house holds firm. We need to do all we can to urge them to hold the line. Today, tomorrow, next day, etc. Forming a third party would be waaaay too late in this current battle. We’re in the middle of a battle right now and like it or not, we must use the tools at our disposal.


44 posted on 09/27/2013 3:50:00 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Biggirl
In other words, Rush is calling for Obamacare to simply collaspe in itself.

I think he was saying that none of these big government programs that should have collapsed by now have, you know.....collapsed. He's saying they'll find a way to keep it afloat just like they did with Social Security, Medicare, and every other government ponzi scheme.

45 posted on 09/27/2013 3:56:52 PM PDT by Lakeshark (Mr Reid, tear down this law!)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Can you please explain how one session of Congress is bound by the actions of a previous session of Congress.


46 posted on 09/27/2013 3:59:12 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Hey RATS! Control your murdering FREAKS!)
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To: Lakeshark

It only took collective farms 80 years to collapse.
I don’t think I can wait that long.


47 posted on 09/27/2013 4:02:20 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Para-Ord.45; Jim Robinson
unless a serious 3rd party emerges .

Oh yeah, here we go.

What's wrong with all of the 53 or so "third parties" already in existence?

48 posted on 09/27/2013 4:03:45 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Hey RATS! Control your murdering FREAKS!)
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To: Kaslin
It's not going to collapse in our favor. They've (the elites, globalists, trans-nationalists, whatever you want to call them) have done this time and time again in society after society. They know exactly what they are doing.
49 posted on 09/27/2013 4:05:32 PM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

They`re not, unless another law is passed to rescind a previous law.

In theory the GOP can defund obama-death-care but in practice it will continue to be funded.

It`s a post-post-constitutional republic. The law is whatever they say it is.

Sorry, but that`s reality.
Even Mark Levin knows this and is now down to the last political bullet in the chamber, the Article 5 gambit. Which, I think is a hail mary and will probably fail.

That leaves only 2 possibilities. A 3rd party or loss of reserve currency status ( due to various possibilities) which will result in a 100% permanent crash.

I`m thinking the neo-marxist left is so invested in their ideology (it is more religion than politic) they will never stop spending trying to create utopia which inevitably will have the reverse effect ending in economic disaster,loss of reserve usd status or another type of currency supplants the usd due to the irrational behaviour of the statist/neo-marxists in the USA.

I say, let it burn:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/335557.php

.


50 posted on 09/27/2013 4:12:43 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45 ( Americans, happy in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own dictators.)
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