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Females begin infantry training at all-male school
Stars and Stripes ^ | 9/26/2013 | Thomas Brennan

Posted on 09/26/2013 6:04:05 PM PDT by markomalley

The former all-male Infantry Training Battalion East issued its first combat load to 15 female Marines to research gender integration in combat specialties.

The Marine Corps announced Wednesday the arrival of 19 females to the battalion. Of that group, four have voluntarily withdrawn. The group will train with Delta Company. It is the first of 17 groups to train at the battalion in the next year. The Corps' goal is for at least 300 females to attend through August 2014.

In January, former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta overturned a policy prohibiting females in combat specialties. Panetta's decision mandates full integration by 2016.

Leon Pappa, the lead investigator overseeing research for the Marine Corps' training and education command at Headquarters Marine Corps, said females will endure 59 days of basic rifleman and infantryman instruction, during a media telephone interview Wednesday.

"There will be no standards changed for this research," he added.

Infantry Training Battalion has five training companies and is among three schools making up the School of Infantry East, which trains 17,600 students annually. ITB trains infantry and Marine Combat Training Battalion trains non-infantry Marines. The Advanced Infantry Training Battalion trains Marine leaders in advanced infantry tactics.

During recruit training at Parris Island, S.C., 114 females were screened with fitness test scores. Of the 42 qualified females, 19 volunteered.

"Volunteers not meeting the standards will receive the same remediation as their male counterparts," Pappa said. "A volunteer may recycle to a follow-on company no more than once to complete the ... periods of instruction."

At Parris Island, the females learn they can withdraw any time without penalty. By Day 29 of training, females must pass the curriculum or they are sent to MCT. Students must maintain an 80-percent average to graduate.

The female graduates will earn the infantry designation, but won't operate in the Corps as part of the infantry, Pappa said.

The results are due for the Commandant of the Marine Corps' review by October 2014.

Each female, regardless of completion, will be given an exit survey analyzing injuries, medical issues, academics and more, said Pappa.

"Females will be subject alongside the males to a physical and medical pre-screening as well as weekly physical checks to ensure they are not hiding injuries (during training)," Pappa said. "We've also inserted reconfirmation briefs where essentially we will sit down face-to-face with the volunteers at different points during the ITB training to reconfirm their volunteer status."

The confirmation briefs, Pappa said, will be "subtle" and without "excess scrutiny" on the female Marines.

"The reason we want to reconfirm them is because ... attitudes do change," Pappa said. "Males are not given that opportunity because this is their military occupational specialty assignment."

Data collectors are embedded with the training company to track volunteers. Three female combat instructors from MCT have been assigned to mentor and advise the ITB staff. A senior enlisted female Marine will advise the command and assist the three combat instructors, according to Pappa.

Female Marines will not be segregated during training, but will be housed separately from the males in the barracks. In the field, the Marines will berth together but will not share tents, Pappa said.

The training marks the first phase of the integration, which consists of preparation, research and evaluation. Phase 2 will set conditions for implementation during Phase 3


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; US: North Carolina
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1 posted on 09/26/2013 6:04:05 PM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

Much lower standards than the males of course


2 posted on 09/26/2013 6:05:38 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: markomalley

Poor insanity. Will they lower standards for everyone so women won’t feel offended by men who are better fit?


3 posted on 09/26/2013 6:07:06 PM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: markomalley
In the field, the Marines will berth together but will not share tents, Pappa said.

Is it gonna be berth or birth?

4 posted on 09/26/2013 6:08:09 PM PDT by nascarnation (Democrats control the Presidency, Senate, and Media. It's an uphill climb....)
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To: markomalley

Putin laughed.


5 posted on 09/26/2013 6:12:38 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the mainland US There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: nascarnation
Is it gonna be berth or birth?

First the "e" then the "i"

6 posted on 09/26/2013 6:17:56 PM PDT by Mark17 (It is every liberal's job to destroy America, and every conservative's job to stop him.)
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To: markomalley

So where are they getting the three female combat instructors?


7 posted on 09/26/2013 6:20:12 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: All

i’m willing to sacrifice the security of the united states in order to make sure we honor diversity.


8 posted on 09/26/2013 6:20:35 PM PDT by willywill
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To: markomalley
"There will be no standards changed for this research," he added.

Okay...Hopefully those standards will be strictly adhered to. *rolling eyes*

9 posted on 09/26/2013 6:21:16 PM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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To: markomalley

I guess the gals will say, “This is my rifle, these are my guns”?


10 posted on 09/26/2013 6:21:23 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: markomalley

if they do it without lowering the standards one iota from what they were when only men were doing it, then all power to them, I’m not gonna tell any of them no. Nor will I tell them that they are being retarded or amoral.

Now let’s see just how many of theme keep to those same standards.


11 posted on 09/26/2013 6:23:12 PM PDT by freedom462
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To: cunning_fish

>>Poor insanity. Will they lower standards for everyone so women won’t feel offended by men who are better fit?<<

Don’t you have to admit it works in Israel?


12 posted on 09/26/2013 6:24:19 PM PDT by KAESNO2
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To: markomalley
"There will be no standards changed for this research,"

-because the standards are already established to be much lower than any male will be required to attain.

13 posted on 09/26/2013 6:33:25 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: KAESNO2
Don’t you have to admit it works in Israel?

How much do you actually know about the females in the Israel armed forces? I suspect that there are many unresolved issues; plus there may not be full integration for all assignments.

I also think that women in the Israeli Armed Forces have been participating in some capacity for decades.

14 posted on 09/26/2013 6:35:55 PM PDT by olezip (Time obliterates the fictions of opinion and confirms the decisions of nature. ~ Cicero)
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To: KAESNO2

Israel does not have females in combat situations. It didn’t take them long to figure out that it wasn’t working as expected. Men are men and chivalry has no place in the front lines.


15 posted on 09/26/2013 6:37:15 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: tumblindice
austin powers fembots photo: Fembots, Austin Powers 12_zps02065458.png

Bring on the Fembots !

16 posted on 09/26/2013 6:38:41 PM PDT by onona (The Earth is the insane asylum for the universe (yup, I belong))
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To: freedom462

Females can’t do it so of course the standards will be lowered, just as they have been in every other situation from law enforcement to firefighting for the last 45 years.

When they say women will “be allowed” to get into a job they are unqualified for, it means, “there will be women in this job, period” regardless of what that takes.

Anyone who thinks that women will be allowed to fail and that any job will just remain all male once it is decided that it won’t, is out of touch with reality.


17 posted on 09/26/2013 6:40:11 PM PDT by ansel12 ( 'I'm on That New Obama Diet... Every Day I Let Vladimir Putin Eat My Lunch' .)
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To: markomalley
By Day 29 of training, females must pass the curriculum or they are sent to MCT.

Of course, if their 30-day cycle happens to occur during part of their *cough* training, they will of necessity be given sufficient time off to rest and recuperate before continuing on, unlike their male counterparts who are allowed no such equivalent recuperation period.

18 posted on 09/26/2013 6:42:12 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: markomalley
The female graduates will earn the infantry designation...

We need a new "designation". Or are we going to issue them green berets and SEAL patches as well? How about LRRP, Force Recon, and Delta Force titles as well?

19 posted on 09/26/2013 6:45:35 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: markomalley

Once again, our nation is sacrificing its security for the sake of misguided and completely unnatural “equality”.


20 posted on 09/26/2013 6:45:50 PM PDT by MN.Gruber06
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To: KAESNO2

Israel fights wars on its own soil. The farthest it has gone in an international conflict is to the Suez.

The United States fights wars over 6,000 miles away. In austere conditions, usually without modern hygienic facilities at its disposal during the initial stages of said war. Further, women are on average, shorter and smaller than men, with 45-50% less upper body strength and 25-30% less aerobic capacity, which is essential for endurance in combat. Further, the female skeletal system is less dense and more prone to breakage.

This is not an “equality” issue. This is a biological issue.


21 posted on 09/26/2013 6:45:50 PM PDT by MN.Gruber06
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To: markomalley
The confirmation briefs, Pappa said, will be "subtle" and without "excess scrutiny" on the female Marines.

If you need to use terms like "subtle" and "without excess scrutiny" to define them...

They are NOT a Marine.

22 posted on 09/26/2013 6:47:43 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: olezip

I think women in any kind of actual combat situation in Israel has actually been happening for only 15 years or so. I am fairly certain that in all of Israel’s wars from its funding through the 70s there were zero women in actual combat positions. I do think there have been recently some women who have had notable success fighting in actual combat in Israel, and, Israel being what it is, it is not the least difficult to believe that Israel does have women who can be as effective in combat as a fair number of the men are.

I will concur, though with the others that the principles of chivalry and distinct roles for women that have been the cornerstone of Western Civilization for over a milennia should be actively encouraged and that ignoring these time honored, chivalrous traditions will lower the quality of life for everyone. That said, I do think that out of the 150 million American women, it is certainly possible that some of them are capable of being in the infantry without lowering the standards for men, but I would also concur that there must be militant, uncompromising enforcement of universal standards. If that means 1 % or less of the infantry consists of women, that’s just how it has to be.


23 posted on 09/26/2013 6:48:04 PM PDT by freedom462
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To: freedom462

Correction - all of Israel’s wars from its FOUNDING through the 70s, including the Yom Kippur War of course.


24 posted on 09/26/2013 6:49:00 PM PDT by freedom462
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To: MN.Gruber06

Good friend of mine spent recent time working with the Israeli military. They use women as snipers, but not Infantry, as the female bodies could not take the stress and there were too many injuries over time.


25 posted on 09/26/2013 6:49:36 PM PDT by binreadin
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To: Former Fetus

Israel is surrounded by feral arabs determined to exterminate them. The USA is not in that same situation.

WRONG analogy. IF the US was surrounded by feral humans bent on destruction and outnumbered, then it would make sense to have women in combat positions.

This is all about giving women the highest positions in the military as in general officers. But the standards have to be lowered to get them there.

Sucks to be us.


26 posted on 09/26/2013 6:53:16 PM PDT by Texas resident (Watch the other hand.)
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To: markomalley
Females... will not be segregated during training, but will be housed separately... (and) In the field, they will berth together but will not share tents...

So the term "segregate" no longer means "segregate"? Will they get their own flower-scented porta-pottys and be provided extra water for their special daily showering needs as well? Non-segregated, of course. But specifically for the 'female' useages thereof.

27 posted on 09/26/2013 6:54:30 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: KAESNO2
Don’t you have to admit it works in Israel?

The Israelis have already tried it and abandoned such PC-mandated concepts as unuseable.

28 posted on 09/26/2013 6:56:39 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: Utilizer
The female graduates will earn the infantry designation...

What happened to "Every Marine a rifleman and every Marine officer a rifle platoon(company) commander"?

29 posted on 09/26/2013 6:57:23 PM PDT by BwanaNdege ("Life is short. It's even shorter if you suggest going out for pizza on your anniversary" Peter Egan)
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To: markomalley
This is deliberate sabotage of our military.

Ladies and gentleman, an all-male ground fighting force is going to kick the ass of a fighing force that has girls in in it, oh excuse me, women..

The military isn't community college. And yes, "girls," because real women respect the territory of real men and understand when to leave them the hell alone.

Hello? The fastest marathon running men in the world have times twenty minutes faster than the fastest women. The best men can't just swim a little faster, lift a little heavier weight, run a little faster -- they do those things A LOT BETTER than the fastest women athletes.

There are areas where women would be good choice and even a better choice, but they don't involve side-by-side close combat. Women can withstand higher g-forces that men pilots cannot, so they're good in jets. Sorry, that's the way it is. Interestingly, in long-distance open water swimming, women beat men.

Other than that, women should be outta there. This isn't even addressing the real invasion of the ONE TIME boys have to "grow up" in an all-male environment, which I believe they need and have a right to, and the emotional distraction women inevitably cause to men trying to focus on a crucial task at hand.

30 posted on 09/26/2013 6:59:12 PM PDT by Finny (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. -- Psalm 119:105)
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To: freedom462
if they do it without lowering the standards one iota from what they were when only men were doing it, then all power to them, I’m not gonna tell any of them no.

I will, and here's why: let's say only 2 or 3 of these women manage to pass the course, even if the standards are maintained. Despite the fact that 3/19 passing is a success ration of approximately 16% (and doesn't even necessarily demonstrate overall fitness for actual combat), the idiots in our government and the top of the military will point to it and proclaim that this demonstrates that women can do everything men can do. They then open the infantry up to all women, and THEN adjust (i.e. dumb down) the standards to keep the success ratio higher.

On top of that, physical fitness performance aside, women are still women. They ovulate, get periods, get moody, get PREGNANT, and have weaker bones, less muscle, and less cardiovascular capacity. These are immutable facts. All of these things will actively interfere with sustained combat operations, but hey, if she can do 10 pull-ups, we'll call it good.
31 posted on 09/26/2013 7:03:16 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: ansel12
When they say women will “be allowed” to get into a job they are unqualified for, it means, “there will be women in this job, period” regardless of what that takes.

When you are military, if your boss (especially if it's a Zero) tells you that you Need To Have a certain percentage of females pass a test in order to look better on the stats, you d@mm well better find a way to make it happen or it's your @ss on the grinder.

32 posted on 09/26/2013 7:04:40 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: markomalley

Political correctness is not only going to be the death of us,... it is also going to be the death of a lot of Marines.


33 posted on 09/26/2013 7:07:11 PM PDT by Gritty (This war against Islamism is being lost because it cannot even be acknowledged- Mark Steyn)
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To: onona

“Chesty” Pullers, every one!


34 posted on 09/26/2013 7:07:23 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: Utilizer

>>Don’t you have to admit it works in Israel?

The Israelis have already tried it and abandoned such PC-mandated concepts as unuseable.<<

Well then how come I see all these photos of beautiful IDF girls in the field with machine guns?


35 posted on 09/26/2013 7:15:39 PM PDT by KAESNO2
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To: markomalley

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why politicians and non-elected bureaucrats feel it necessary to force changes to our society that any sane person can see will have no benefit whatsoever, and are, in fact, seriously damaging to our society.

I can only conclude that they are intentionally working to destroy America.

I don’t know what I can do, but I will do everything I can to oppose and ultimately reverse these insanities.

Perhaps, over time, we will realize the error of our ways and we conservatives can return a measure of sanity to our Republic.

Should we fail to do that, we can kiss America good by.


36 posted on 09/26/2013 7:16:50 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: VerySadAmerican

Transgendered marines.


37 posted on 09/26/2013 7:18:26 PM PDT by Calamari (Pass enough laws and everyone is guilty of something.)
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To: fr_freak
They ovulate, get periods, get moody, get PREGNANT, and have weaker bones, less muscle, and less cardiovascular capacity. These are immutable facts. All of these things will actively interfere with sustained combat operations, but hey, if she can do 10 pull-ups, we'll call it good.

On her best day, highly motivated and the center of attention at the peak of her health, determined to be a first, and squeaking in at the minimum, with nothing left in reserve to carry her through after 6 months in the jungle with little sleep, bouts of dysentery and living on canned peaches and cigarettes and under constant stress.

38 posted on 09/26/2013 7:18:30 PM PDT by ansel12 ( 'I'm on That New Obama Diet... Every Day I Let Vladimir Putin Eat My Lunch' .)
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To: markomalley

Our Armed Forces were once the envy of the world. The individuals still are. But the leadership is more concerned with political correctness than with the readiness to fight. They are doing irreparable damage to the military.


39 posted on 09/26/2013 7:20:56 PM PDT by Temujinshordes
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To: Taxman

I can only conclude that they are intentionally working to destroy America.


That is exactly what they are doing.


40 posted on 09/26/2013 7:31:11 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: KAESNO2

It didn’t work in Israel. But due to insanity they’re trying it again.

Men and women are not = or interchangeable. You’re a noob, so I guess you haven’t noticed that.


41 posted on 09/26/2013 7:33:12 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Temujinshordes

Indeed. It is quite pathetic. The same people who seem to be obsessed with “science” and “indisputable research” when it comes to the refusal of God and Jesus Christ and the support of “global warming” at the same time wholeheartedly refuse the same research when it seems to affirm the opposite of their own agenda. How unfortunate.


42 posted on 09/26/2013 7:36:00 PM PDT by MN.Gruber06
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To: KAESNO2

Apologies for snarkiness.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt....

I am so beyond disgusted at feminism/leftism/commie-ism/progressivism/moslemism/faggism that I want to vomit.


43 posted on 09/26/2013 7:37:49 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: KAESNO2

>>Poor insanity. Will they lower standards for everyone so women won’t feel offended by men who are better fit?<<

Don’t you have to admit it works in Israel?<<<

No, and Israel was not the first to drop deployment of women to frontline.


44 posted on 09/26/2013 7:45:31 PM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: KAESNO2
Well then how come I see all these photos of beautiful IDF girls in the field with machine guns?

They still have plenty of women in their military, they just don't put them in front line combat units with the men anymore.
45 posted on 09/26/2013 7:56:55 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak

>>They still have plenty of women in their military, they just don’t put them in front line combat units with the men anymore.<<

Well if they were at my side while we were under attack, I would trust them to shoot straight.


46 posted on 09/26/2013 8:08:49 PM PDT by KAESNO2
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To: KAESNO2
Well if they were at my side while we were under attack, I would trust them to shoot straight.

That's very nice, but what you feel doesn't necessarily have any bearing on reality.
47 posted on 09/26/2013 8:16:57 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: Texas resident

The US is OCCUPIED by all kinds of feral creatures bent on our destruction!


48 posted on 09/26/2013 8:22:39 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: Utilizer

Well, why not? Hollywood does and they can’t be wrong...


49 posted on 09/26/2013 8:24:33 PM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: fr_freak

>>That’s very nice, but what you feel doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on reality.<<

Any gun trainer will tell you that women are usually better shots than men, because they don’t have bad habits to unlearn.

In WWII, the Russians’ best snipers were women. The Wehrmacht genuinely feared them.

It wouldn’t hurt you to lose the condescension — condescension toward me, and condescension toward female warriors.


50 posted on 09/26/2013 8:25:17 PM PDT by KAESNO2
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