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Palo Alto looks to require electric vehicle circuitry in new homes
San Jose Mercury News ^ | 9/28/13 | Jason Green

Posted on 09/28/2013 10:11:23 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom

Hoping to play a bigger role in the electric vehicle revolution, the Palo Alto City Council embraced a proposal Monday night that would require new homes to come pre-wired for chargers.

Council members were unanimous in their support for the building code change, which was floated in a colleagues' memo by Mayor Greg Scharff, Vice Mayor Nancy Shepherd and Council Member Gail Price.

The city council also backed related proposals to streamline the process for obtaining a permit for a charger as well as develop strategies to further encourage electric vehicle use in Palo Alto.

"Let's figure out as a council what we can do to remove the obstacles to owning electric vehicles in Palo Alto," Scharff said before the 9-0 vote. "I think what we really need to do is make it convenient, easy and economical."

"The thing that caught me is how simple and easy and fairly inexpensive it is to rough-in the wiring," Shepherd said. The cost is often under $200 for a new home, or four times less than what it runs to install a charger at an existing home, Scharff said.

Several council members noted that Palo Alto was on the leading edge two years ago when it first started pushing chargers, but it hasn't managed to keep pace with a recent surge in demand for electric vehicles.

"They really are starting to catch on and get some market penetration," said Marc Berman, "It is important that we create the infrastructure necessary to allow that to happen. In Palo Alto, of all places, we should absolutely do that."

(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: calpowercrisis
Palo Altans making it "affordable" to charge your $100,000 Tesla Model S by reducing the cost of charger wiring from $800 to $200. Right...people with $100 large to blow on the latest toy/status symbol are really worried about saving $600 on their charger.

To show how silly this is, there are virtually NO new homes built in Palo Alto. The town is 100% built-out; there is no land anywhere.

The kooks on the City Council want to "remove obstacles" to owning electric vehicles. Perhaps they should mandate a minimum annual wage of $150,000 for every resident. Then everybody could afford these luxury toys for the über-rich.

Lastly, this is the same intolerant town that a couple weeks back decided to throw all the people living in their cars out of town.

1 posted on 09/28/2013 10:11:23 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Collectivism, mandating people to do stuff that they wouldn’t do otherwise.


2 posted on 09/28/2013 10:15:43 AM PDT by lurk
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

The nice thing about having the chargers handy is they could be used on the council members’ private parts after TSHTF.


3 posted on 09/28/2013 10:17:04 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (When your policy is to rob Peter to pay Paul, you can count on enthusiastic support from Paul.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

There are fewer actual laws to obey in North Korea than California. Seriously.


4 posted on 09/28/2013 10:19:14 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

The only land available in Palo Alto to build new houses on is the ‘foothills’ - a very large area but effectively closed to new building by the local politics. SO, this new ordinance will actually impact almost nobody.

ps:
The median single family home price as of September 22 2013 for PALO ALTO is $2,288,918. It ranges UP from there in most of Palo Alto’s immediate suburbs (Woodside, Portola Valley, Menlo Park, Atherton, Los Altos, Los Altos Hills).
(I hate to say it, but if anybody is able to secure a building permit in P.A, he can probably afford a silly electric outlet for his car... anyway. A bad ordinance, but not one that is going to hurt millions of people like Obamacare.)


5 posted on 09/28/2013 10:21:19 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (Er)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
I'm wondering....as Osama Obama’s “War on Coal” continues and accelerates,coal being used to generate almost half of this nation's electricity,*where* are we gonna get the power to operate all these toy cars that run on D batteries?
6 posted on 09/28/2013 10:25:57 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Osama Obama Care: A Religion That Will Have You On Your Knees!)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Palo Alto, if my memory serves me correctly is “buying electricity” from P.G.& E., and “reselling it” to its residents. So the unanswered question is “if everyone in PA has an electric car and they all plug them in after work together, will their “grid” support the load?


7 posted on 09/28/2013 10:26:38 AM PDT by vette6387 (i)
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To: All

Aren’t we just talking about an extra 220 V dryer outlet in the garage?

Even if you don’t want an electric car, it would be good for your kiln, air compressor or welder for your other hobbies.


8 posted on 09/28/2013 10:26:53 AM PDT by az_gila
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
"To show how silly this is, there are virtually NO new homes built in Palo Alto."

You beat me to it. When libs reign, new housing shuts down in favor of skinny, sub-divided townhouses (at best), and apartments.
9 posted on 09/28/2013 10:31:29 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: az_gila

shouldn’t that be up to the homeowner instead of the local Nazis?


10 posted on 09/28/2013 10:34:31 AM PDT by digger48
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To: az_gila
This eco-stupidity reminds me of the commie haven of Takoma Park md who voted years ago to make their dump of a city a "nuclear free" zone. The LIBiots never had any nuclear anything in their degenerate city. Also, for years they have allowed illegal aliens to vote in their commie enclave. Fools. maryland is truly THE Freak state.
11 posted on 09/28/2013 10:34:32 AM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Rehabilitation Camp?)
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To: az_gila
Do you need 220 to run machine tools to make your own arsenal?

If I were building or remodeling a house I would have 220 run to the garage without a second thought. I would probably even have outlets in a couple different places to save having to stretch extension cords.

12 posted on 09/28/2013 10:36:52 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Everyone get online for Obamacare on 10/1. Overload the system and crash it hard!)
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To: vette6387

My PG&E bill has a tiered rate. Baseline at so much per kilowatt hour and a higher rate for anything over that and then it raises again if you go over a certain amount. Do they raise your baselines if you have an electric car?


13 posted on 09/28/2013 10:40:22 AM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin (If global warming exists I hope it is strong enough to reverse the Big Government snowball)
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To: KarlInOhio

Yes, most smaller lathes and mills will need 240V, single-phase power.

120V circuits can’t really haul more than about 1HP single-phase motors. To get a 3 to 5HP motor, you’ll need 240V.

If I were advising someone building a new house, I’d recommend at least 100 amp, 240V service run to the garage or shop as an “of *course* you’re going to need that” sort of thing. If I am building a new home with a shop or garage, I’d have 200 amp/240V service in the garage alone, and then another 200 amp service for the house. If a house has natural gas, and then has natural gas hot water, heat and kitchen, you’d use almost none of the 200amp service for the house.

Once you fire up a heat treating oven and a welder at the same time, you’ll use every bit of a 200 amp service. Never mind the stupid Smurfmobile with a battery and wind-up motor.


14 posted on 09/28/2013 10:44:05 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin

“My PG&E bill has a tiered rate. Baseline at so much per kilowatt hour and a higher rate for anything over that and then it raises again if you go over a certain amount. Do they raise your baselines if you have an electric car?”

Like you, I have PG&E, but no electric car so I can’t say if ( or how) they would know that you are charging your EV. I suppose with “smart technology, they could figure out when your “smart car charger” was in use, but I’ve seen noting about special rates for this kind of consumption. Used to work in Palo Alto. It’s a liberal loony bin, only eclipsed by neighboring Atherton and Menlo Park. The whole area is full of “Stepford People,” with the exception of East Palo Alto (aka Nairobi), where the residents sleep in their cast iron bath tubs to avoid being hit by a stray bullet from a drug dealer.


15 posted on 09/28/2013 11:00:39 AM PDT by vette6387 (i)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

I lived on a 19th fl apt in Manhattan. Wonder if they’’ll make the cars small enough to fit into the elevators and the apt’s for charging.


16 posted on 09/28/2013 11:07:36 AM PDT by capt B
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
The kooks on the City Council want to "remove obstacles" to owning electric vehicles. Perhaps they should mandate a minimum annual wage of $150,000 for every resident. Then everybody could afford these luxury toys for the über-rich.

Excellent! Anyone earning less than that could be subject to a fine.

17 posted on 09/28/2013 11:11:10 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
prolly a couple council members with dislocated shoulders from patting themselves on the back too...
18 posted on 09/28/2013 11:16:57 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: digger48
shouldn’t that be up to the homeowner instead of the local Nazis?


Yes, probably.

However since we are talking new construction the added cost is negligible and the result is useful, not just for dumb electric cars...:^)

The code defines lots of other things, like how many outlets be room. I just see this as a useful extension to that. If it was left to the builders you would get one 15 amp outlet per room...:^)

19 posted on 09/28/2013 11:24:59 AM PDT by az_gila
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Seems to be a huge waste where a bicycle rack will do.


20 posted on 09/28/2013 11:26:07 AM PDT by depressed in 06 (America conceived in liberty, dies in slavery.)
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To: az_gila

Yes because people have no choice but to buy such a house, not like there is any pressure to build a better product without government.

What a stupid thing to say.


21 posted on 09/28/2013 11:26:30 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL
Yes because people have no choice but to buy such a house, not like there is any pressure to build a better product without government.


Maybe, but only if the average home buyer knows to look for such things as electric outlets...

I bet most don't...

Also, do you think builders would space the 2x4s correctly inside the walls without the code of inspectors... I'm betting a lot would scrimp. Heck, the FL hurricanes exposed builders short cuts and missing hardware to save money.

The pressure to build a better product isn't as clearly defined as you say when it comes to new homes.

22 posted on 09/28/2013 11:37:58 AM PDT by az_gila
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To: az_gila
“code of inspectors”

Bad typing, sorry - should be

code or inspectors

23 posted on 09/28/2013 11:39:30 AM PDT by az_gila
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To: az_gila

As long as people know what they are getting.

I am sitting in a very old shack at the moment with an aluminum roof, there is no running water or power except for an extension cord from next door.

Hopefully though, we can have water and power soon since they have been working on it.


24 posted on 09/28/2013 11:45:01 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: az_gila

What do you have against builders? (:#/>


25 posted on 09/28/2013 11:47:05 AM PDT by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

In other news, advocates of “affordable housing” cannot understand why housing costs so much.


26 posted on 09/28/2013 11:55:24 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: KarlInOhio

>> Do you need 220 to run machine tools to make your own arsenal?

Some of ‘em are 440V, 3-phase. Although you can synthesise whatever you need from 220 if need be. And if you synthesize your machine tool power, there isn’t that telltale 3-phase feed into your garage when the drones come looking for ordnance machine shops. :-)


27 posted on 09/28/2013 12:03:02 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom; Ernest_at_the_Beach

I take it they’ve forgotten about the State of California’s critical shortages in electrical generation and distribution capacity.


28 posted on 09/28/2013 12:28:45 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Is that still going on? I thought they fixed it when they got rid of “Gray-out” Davis.

Haven’t seen anything about brownouts in Cali lately.


29 posted on 09/28/2013 12:30:48 PM PDT by nascarnation (Democrats control the Presidency, Senate, and Media. It's an uphill climb....)
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To: nascarnation
Is that still going on? I thought they fixed it when they got rid of “Gray-out” Davis.

They did improve distribution marginally, but not generating capacity and those improvements were already in process. Frankly, it was price that caused the efficiencies we've seen. So the answer is no.

30 posted on 09/28/2013 12:32:43 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
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To: NVDave

“...If I were advising someone building a new house, I’d recommend at least 100 amp, 240V service run to the garage or shop as an “of *course* you’re going to need that” sort of thing....”

A number of years ago, I had a 30 x 30 foot 2-car garage built. Put three rooms over (unfinished) just because. The electric service was a 100A sub panel, and I did most of the wiring. Thought we might need another heat pump some day. Put in one 30A 240V outlet, just in case we might need it.

Fast forward:

Now the “garage” contains a 2,400 lb. vertical mill, 1,900 lb. lathe (and two smaller ones), 5 H.P. 3-phase RPC, several welders (water-cooled Syncrowave 250 TIG/stick, Dialarc 250, Thermal Arc 161STL, Lincoln SP175+ MIG and 1952 vintage AC180C, Miller spot welder, Victor & Smith O/A torches), table, radial arm and chop saws, wood lathe, two jointers, three drill presses, a 20-ton hydraulic press and a sandblasting booth, 3.5 H.P. 60 gallon air compressor, two band saws and a 400 pound granite surface plate, plus three work benches. And a lot of hand tools. Moma’s spare oven is in there, too. Good thing we are skinny.

Now the panel supports separate 30, 50 and 70 Amp, 240V circuits for the big stuff. Five separate 20A, 120V circuits and I forget how many 15A lighting and whatnot circuits. Fortunately, I had two 150A main panels to start with. I can live with 300A service (320), but 400 would have been better. I did most of the routine wiring and let an electrician do the main panel and sub panel connects. I spent days and days going up and down a ladder and yanking wire.

Since I did that, my younger one has become a quite competent machinist/welder. Good with all welding processes (though not a pipeline welder), knows his G-code and MasterCAM for CNC machining.


31 posted on 09/28/2013 12:37:28 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: az_gila

Around here in Dupage County IL;it is often required to bring the house up to today’s code, prior to sale.

For my 100 year old home a minimum of $1,000+ to run from the new 200A service in the back to the unattached garage in the front. Lots in the way.


32 posted on 09/28/2013 12:38:04 PM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

If my house comes pre-wire for the charger then I don’t need a stinking permit!


33 posted on 09/28/2013 12:43:26 PM PDT by Lockbox
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To: Carry_Okie

That’s incredible.
All those rich people enduring 3rd world electricity availability.


34 posted on 09/28/2013 12:44:48 PM PDT by nascarnation (Democrats control the Presidency, Senate, and Media. It's an uphill climb....)
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To: nascarnation

wait until it hits the fan and these people figure out they moved to the wrong state


35 posted on 09/28/2013 12:46:07 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: BatGuano
What do you have against builders? (:#/>


Nothing, but I am a retired engineer and can follow what they do when working on anything that is mine...:^)

36 posted on 09/28/2013 12:58:53 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: DUMBGRUNT
Around here in Dupage County IL;it is often required to bring the house up to today’s code, prior to sale.

For my 100 year old home a minimum of $1,000+ to run from the new 200A service in the back to the unattached garage in the front. Lots in the way.


I agree, existing stuff should be grandfathered in.

But the OP talked about new construction only.

37 posted on 09/28/2013 1:00:23 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: USMCPOP

You and I should get together sometimes. Sounds like we have a lot in common in our shops.

FWIW, Look into the Miller Dynasty welders. The Syncrowaves are great machines, don’t get me wrong, but the Dynasty machines take sooo much less power - and you get a lot more pulse/waveform options on them. I like my Dynasty 200 for welding on guns. For the big stick stuff, I have a Trailblazer outside the doors.

In the future, I want to get a CNC bed mill. I’ve been eyeing some of the smaller Haas mill/lathe setups, like their “toolroom” machines. Trouble is, they’ve been forced to add “features” I don’t want or need for the Euro-weenie market that increase weight and footprint, so I might also look at some of the Taiwanese machines. I reckon I have to keep the weight under 7K in order to not crack the pad as I’m moving it around. The people who built the shop I’m in now didn’t think that concrete was very important - they poured only 4”. I’d like 6, better 8”. Everyone around here is stingy with the concrete in both residential and commercial pad pours.


38 posted on 09/28/2013 1:21:42 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Nervous Tick

For motors 5HP and under, look at VFD’s. They’re a much cheaper alternative to putting in a rotary, and far, far better than a static phase converter.

For big conversion issues, there’s a new outfit that sells solid-state phase conversion that is very nice. Quiet, efficient, good regulation. Google/Bing “Phase Perfect.”


39 posted on 09/28/2013 1:24:18 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: az_gila

Ever notice how contractors just LOOOOOVE engineers looking over their shoulders? ;-)


40 posted on 09/28/2013 1:24:52 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: az_gila
True, but contractor licensing/home inspectors/etc make buyers feel they don't need to due their own due diligence.

We'll rely on government, and we know how well they do everything.

I owned restaurants, and if you think it was the health inspector that kept my food safe, well, it wasn't.

And of course, government isn't the only entity which can establish and enforce quality standards for an industry.

41 posted on 09/28/2013 1:33:03 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: NVDave
Ever notice how contractors just LOOOOOVE engineers looking over their shoulders? ;-)


Yes, but when I checked the drawings when we added a second story to our house and found a support that was marked as 4x4 on one floor and 4x6 on another floor, the contractor let me carry on and correct the other dozen mistakes on his drawings...:^)

Now workers reading the drawings was another thing. I had to correct the plumbers chalk marks for the rough plumbing since he held the drawings upside down. He even said, that's a dumb location for the upstairs hall...:^)

42 posted on 09/28/2013 1:43:24 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: NVDave

Yeah, Dave, we’d like to have a Dynasty welder. But there’s no real advantage in a home shop. Our entire stable of welders cost less than $4,000. I paid $850. for the Sync 250 and it is clean.

The young one got stuck on an old HAAS mini type mill on his first machining job. Did real well and was the first person to really use it. It’s the man, not the machine, that makes a machinist. Take that to the bank in thousandths of an inch.


43 posted on 09/28/2013 2:38:32 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: USMCPOP

You practically stole that Sync 250. ;-)


44 posted on 09/28/2013 4:13:00 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
California hasn't built any new power plants in 30+ years and has been shutting down plants at aren't PC enough for the Greenies. California is buying much of its electricity from surrounding states. I'd recommend the surrounding suppliers triple their exported electricity costs to California and bring them face-to-face with reality. Karma sucks governor Moonbeam and your communist Sacramento legislature.
45 posted on 09/28/2013 7:06:12 PM PDT by MasterGunner01
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To: MasterGunner01

Well, according to Dave Barry:

“But Edison’s greatest achievement came in 1879 when he
invented the electric company. Edison’s design was a brilliant adaptation of the simple electrical circuit: the electric company sends electricity through a wire to a customer, then immediately gets the electricity back through another wire, then (this is the brilliant part) sends it right back to the customer again.

This means that an electric company can sell a customer the same batch of electricity thousands of times a day and never get caught, since very few customers take the time to examine their electricity closely. In fact, the last year any new electricity was generated was 1937.”


46 posted on 09/29/2013 8:12:37 AM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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