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California's Legislature Says Hunting Rifles Are 'Assault Weapons' Because...Why Not?
Reason ^ | Oct. 3, 2013 | Jacob Sullum

Posted on 10/04/2013 11:14:23 AM PDT by neverdem

Warner BrothersWarner Brothers

California Gov. Jerry Brown will soon decide whether to sign a bill that expands his state's "assault weapon" ban to cover any centerfire rifle with a detachable magazine. That's a very broad category, the National Rifle Association notes, since "millions of semi-automatic rifles have magazines that can be removed with the push of a button," including "classic hunting rifles like the Remington Woodsmaster, Browning BAR, and the Ruger 99/44, among many others." The actual language of the bill, S.B. 374, refers rather confusingly to "a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept no more than 10 rounds." The NRA argues that the bill's definition of a fixed magazine—"an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action"—is ambiguous, since "'disassembly of the firearm action' is undefined and nobody (least of all the legislators who voted for it) knows what it means, or for that matter even what a firearm 'action' actually is." But the intended target seems to be any rifle with a detachable magazine that fires rounds of a caliber bigger than .22 (generally the upper limit these days for cheaper, flimsier rimfire cartridges). Hence Fox News says the bill "exempts .22-caliber rim fire rifles," although the legislation does not directly address caliber.

As with the existing "assault weapon" law, current owners could keep the newly prohibited models, provided they registered them with the state by July 1, 2015. But "unlike with previous registration requirements," the NRA says, "there is no planned public education campaign to notify people about the new law and its mandates. So the tens of thousands of firearm owners who do not hear about or understand SB 374 are out of luck if found with an unregistered firearm that falls under the new definition of 'assault weapon.' And even those who do register their firearms on time will be precluded from ever selling them or passing them down to their children or grandchildren."

RemingtonRemingtonUnlike California's current definition of "assault weapon," the new one does not hinge on arbitrarily selected military-style features such as flash suppressors or folding stocks. Instead it apparently aims to ban all rifles capable of firing more than 10 large or medium-sized cartridges without reloading. Those are real functional differences, although one can still argue about how much they matter to mass murderers or run-of-the-mill criminals. But expanding the definition of "assault weapon" to cover equally lethal guns that lack irrelevant features inevitably means banning many models commonly used for legitimate purposes. For anti-gun activists, that may have been the plan all along. The problem for them is that the Supreme Court has said the Second Amendment protects the right to own guns "in common use" or "typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes." So while an "assault weapon" is whatever legislators say it is, since the term has no independent or objective meaning, the Constitution imposes limits on how far this charade can be carried.

For example, the Remington 870 pump-action shotgun used in last month's massacre at the Washington Navy Yard is, according to its manufacturer, "the best-selling shotgun of any type in history." It is hard to imagine that the Supreme Court would uphold a ban on such a popular firearm, despite its indisputable connection to mass murder. Or suppose legislators, suddenly noticing that pistols are the guns favored by mass shooters (as well as ordinary thugs), decided to label them "assault weapons." It is clear from the Court's decisions in District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago that such word games would not justify banning handguns. The NRA, which is threatening to sue if Brown signs S.B. 374, argues that banning a wide range of popular hunting rifles cannot pass constitutional muster either.

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TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; california; guncontrol; guns; secondamendment; secondamendnent

1 posted on 10/04/2013 11:14:23 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”


2 posted on 10/04/2013 11:16:58 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: neverdem

California is the lead State in reducing us to a government dictatorship since the communists rule this State.


3 posted on 10/04/2013 11:17:20 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: neverdem

Whitetail deer consider my browning A Bolt in 270 Win an assault weapon.


4 posted on 10/04/2013 11:18:26 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (What's the frequency, Kenneth?)
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To: neverdem

And I’m sure the federal courts will rubber stamp the new laws.... When the Supreme Court rules that gay marriage is legal, any law that even smells like it might be an infrigement on gay marriage is ruthlessly smacked down by the federal courts. But the Supreme Court rules that the constitution guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms (Heller) and the federal courts bend over backwards to marginalize the ruling to the point that an “individual right to keep and bear arms” only applies to a single shot black powder musket that must be kept unloaded and locked in a safe at all times.


5 posted on 10/04/2013 11:23:59 AM PDT by apillar
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To: neverdem

It’s a weapon. I can commit assault with it therefore it’s an assault weapon.

/liberallogic


6 posted on 10/04/2013 11:25:29 AM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Government: Slimy used car salesmen writing laws forcing you to buy their cars)
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To: neverdem

Brown is a gdamn out-of-control lunatic. Yesterday when he signed the illegal alien driver’s licence bill into law, he said “this affirms what it means to be American”. I almost fell over.


7 posted on 10/04/2013 11:27:15 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: neverdem

8 posted on 10/04/2013 11:33:27 AM PDT by Travis T. OJustice (I'm not a gynecologist, but I'll take a look.)
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To: neverdem

And each day we draw nearer and nearer to the “last straw”.

Thankfully, the only group that loathes the Obamadork more than this audience is our military.

I wonder how thoroughly they were taught about obeying “unlawful orders”. Once upon a time, this was stressed to new recruits. Betcha it’s not done very strongly now...but thankfully, most military types are sharp and will figure things out.


9 posted on 10/04/2013 11:34:56 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: Personal Responsibility

More Lib/logic. Common ASSAULT weapons found in too many American homes...steak knives, carving knives, baseball bats, frying pans, screwdrivers, tire irons, golf clubs, electrical cords, pillows(!), household cleaners, , the family auto, hammers, electric hedge trimmers.
I’m not sure just what calibers the above are available in.
Oh, I forgot. Alfred Hitchcoks favorite...the FROZEN leg of lamb, used to crush a husbands skull, then cooked and fed as sandwiches to the investigating police.


10 posted on 10/04/2013 11:36:50 AM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf (NY TIMES: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: neverdem

“Show me the man, I’ll show you the crime”


11 posted on 10/04/2013 11:36:55 AM PDT by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Steve Van Doorn; Syncro; ProtectOurFreedom; vrwc1; Citizen James; abigail2; ...
A LOONEY TUNES BANG!
12 posted on 10/04/2013 11:41:03 AM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: neverdem

“We’re Californians and we’re brain dead because.... we choose to be!”


13 posted on 10/04/2013 11:42:14 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
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To: neverdem

A Salt Weapon.

-PJ

14 posted on 10/04/2013 11:51:03 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

“Der ver zwei peanuts valking along der strasse, und von vas assaulted...peanut....HO HO HO HO!”


15 posted on 10/04/2013 11:52:48 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: neverdem
The patriots and sportsman all over CA are ready and if Brown signs any of these anti-gun bills the next move will be to recall and reascend. Petitions are ready for print and we are gathering volunteers.
16 posted on 10/04/2013 11:53:28 AM PDT by drypowder
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To: neverdem

They could just call all center fire “hunting rifles” with a scope deadly “Sniper Rifles,” and ban those.


17 posted on 10/04/2013 11:54:00 AM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: Personal Responsibility

My bar stool is an assault weapon if need be. California is nuts.


18 posted on 10/04/2013 11:55:20 AM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: Doomonyou

my 14 is good to at least 100yds without a scope. Of course my vision is not what it once was.

I need a scope. Nevermind.


19 posted on 10/04/2013 11:58:19 AM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: dfwgator

-PJ

20 posted on 10/04/2013 11:58:50 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: El Gato; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; Dianna; ...
Second Amendment Special!

If Schultz Can Change on Guns, Dems Can Switch on Obamacare

Justices to hear gun ban case

Court Says Holder Can't Stop Fast And Furious Truth Search

More ATF sting cases dismissed as top agent cannot testify

Senate.gov Invents Second Amendment Controversy

21 posted on 10/04/2013 12:08:53 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: neverdem

If you come to do me or my loved ones harm, EVERY weapon I own is an assault/defense weapon.

I have a new TenPoint “Vapor” crossbow that can instantly become and assault weapon. LOL... it’s also a kick in the butt to shoot...I am loving it.


22 posted on 10/04/2013 12:33:24 PM PDT by Gator113 (The mighty Bear ate the cowardly rat. Obama must resign.)
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To: neverdem

Okay anti-gun libs, tell us how youre not coming after our hunting rifles.


23 posted on 10/04/2013 12:34:33 PM PDT by lowbridge
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To: neverdem
> cheaper, flimsier rimfire cartridges
24 posted on 10/04/2013 12:49:55 PM PDT by jim_trent
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To: jim_trent; All

> cheaper, flimsier rimfire cartridges

Generally, rimfire cartridges cannot stand up to as much chamber pressure as centerfire cartridges.


25 posted on 10/04/2013 1:07:56 PM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

270 Win is certainly one of the best ever general purpose cartriges.


26 posted on 10/04/2013 1:07:59 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: neverdem

I own a 1943 bolt-action Mosin-Nagant. IF I was to upgrade the stock to one of those new ArchAngel stocks, it goes from clip-fed to magazine-fed.

How does a change of stock, with no change to the action of the rifle, make it an “assault weapon” ???


27 posted on 10/04/2013 1:12:00 PM PDT by Salgak (http://catalogoftehburningstoopid.blogspot.com 100% all-natural snark !)
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To: neverdem

Why don’t we expand the definition of “late term abortion”?

We could redefine it to mean anything after the 5th month. And then very steadily walk it back, week by week.

There’d be objections, and every time we could say, “Don’t be an extremist —this is the 21st century, after all...”

Neither of those are logic-based arguments, of course.


28 posted on 10/04/2013 1:17:53 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: donmeaker

Moose, Elk, Deer, Feral hogs and coyotes. Dropped a white tail at 800 yards. It will reach farther. But I’ve never had the opportunity. A Bolt stalker with Leupold 3x10 gold ring scope 50 mm obj. A friend of mine took a Grizzly at a 1/4 mile with the same rig.


29 posted on 10/04/2013 1:33:14 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (What's the frequency, Kenneth?)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

Long range machine gun fire used to be taught in the Army.

When they initially changed the .30/06 load from 180 grains to 150 grains, those with experience of WWI machine gun tactics objected, as the 180 grain rounds permitted indirect fire past 5000 meters, and the 150 grain round didn’t. Many machine gun ranges were short enough that there was significant risk of rounds going behind the end of the range. During WWI Heavy machine guns were the ones with a water jacket or enough mass (like the hotchkins) so that they had a high sustained rate of fire.

After a few years, it was tried again, and enough old machine gunners had left so that it was unexceptional, and we fought most of WWII with the 150 grain round. Of course between the wars the .50 BMG was developed, and it took over most of the long range machine gun duties. The term Heavy Machine gun refered to the new larger caliber guns, and what used to be heavy was downgraded to ‘medium’. Light MGs like the Lewis or BAR were unaffected by the change in designation.

The German General Purpose machine gun was an attempt to do all three roles: High rate of fire for long effective range, light weight for mobility of the light machine gun, and good sustained fire (with quick change barrels, rather than water jackets) to do the job of a medium. Of course the MG-42 was not quite as mobile as a BAR, nor had it the range of the M-2, or the sustained rate of fire of the M-1919, but you weren’t asking where you put that other machine gun when the situation changed.

Darnedest shot I ever heard of was Elmer Keith’s 600 yard mule deer with a .44 magnum. It was a wounded animal, so there were no sporting concerns with taking the shot, but wow. Elmer earned his big hats.


30 posted on 10/04/2013 1:44:21 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: gaijin

I believe that late term abortions of state legislators should be legal to the 65th year.


31 posted on 10/04/2013 1:45:14 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: neverdem

This isn’t about safety it’s about liberals who feel superior to gun owners. Liberals view gun owners as low-intelligence, back woods, people whom must be dragged kicking and screaming into the new socialist utopia.


32 posted on 10/04/2013 1:46:15 PM PDT by Aglooka (Just another day in the USSA.)
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To: Salgak

My mosin-nagan is finnish.

The usual work around in CA is to install a bullet-button magazine. That is what is routinely done for AR-15 type weapons.

Another approach would be a device that held two (or more) magazines, each 10 rounds, with provisions to switch the feed from one to the other. 10 round magazines are permitted, and there is no limit on how many of them you can have.


33 posted on 10/04/2013 1:48:23 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: neverdem
lets face it, we KNEW it was coming... next bolt actions will be deemed Sniper Rifles
34 posted on 10/04/2013 2:50:48 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Salgak

Are the mags reliable? The genius part of the MN is the Nagant designed mag that takes pressure of the lower rounds off the upper one.


35 posted on 10/04/2013 3:58:22 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Doomonyou

36 posted on 10/04/2013 4:12:16 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: neverdem

You men in conservative/patriot CA counties best start electing constitutional sheriffs and mustering heavily armed battalion-size deputy auxiliaries for “emergencies.”

If you’re not willing to organize against the nazis in Sacramento, you deserve the jackboot on your throats.


37 posted on 10/04/2013 4:26:57 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: donmeaker

600 yards with a 44 mag in a handgun or a rifle. Either way that’s a hell of a shot. But Elmer Keith (was/is? he would have to be in his 90s by now)a hell of a shooter. 44 mag trajectory is like a fast pitch softball at over 100 yards and not very flat at 100 yards. I love the 270 Win for hunting. I have a 30.06 but it seldom comes out of the gun safe except for cleaning and verifying the scopes accuracy. I used to have a 44 mag Marlin lever action rifle.


38 posted on 10/04/2013 5:02:21 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (What's the frequency, Kenneth?)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

I had a .45 Marlin Lever action, with which I could ring a steel target reliably at 400 yards.

I bought it for research, as I was designing a rifle that could fire any of 5.56x45, 7.62x51, or .45 ACP with a change in barrel and magazine.

I particularly liked the notion of an assault rifle that had a laser range finder, automatic super-elevation, and a silenced .45ACP option for taking out guard posts or listening/observation posts.


39 posted on 10/04/2013 5:08:29 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

Keith’s shot was with a pistol! Again, the animal was already wounded, so the sporting thing to do was to try to put it down.


40 posted on 10/04/2013 5:09:22 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: donmeaker

I thought it was a pistol but I wasn’t sure. A wounded wild animal always needs to be put down just to be humane. Is Elmer still with us?


41 posted on 10/04/2013 5:25:44 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (What's the frequency, Kenneth?)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

Sadly, no.

Elmer Merrifield Keith (March 8, 1899 – February 12, 1984) was an Idaho rancher, firearms enthusiast, and author. Keith was instrumental in the development of the first magnum revolver cartridge, the .357 Magnum, as well as the later .44 Magnum and .41 Magnum cartridges.

Quite a trifecta. he also used to promote the use of the .338 against elk, in part because bullets back then were less reliable, and the extra bullet size compensated for less than reliable expansion.


42 posted on 10/04/2013 5:47:59 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Keith


43 posted on 10/04/2013 5:49:45 PM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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To: neverdem

My coworker fled Silicon Valley 2 years ago and loves his new Texas home, and his second amendment rights. He shutters to think about still living there, yet that is his long childhood home. Hopefully, Colorado is mostly getting the liberal hypocrites that can’t stick it out living in the “social justice” they created in California. Texas is too rough for nancy-boys anyway.


44 posted on 10/04/2013 5:53:09 PM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: DuncanWaring

Bingo!


45 posted on 10/04/2013 6:50:51 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: donmeaker

I had no idea he was that old born 1889 died 1984. Last I read anything about him was the early 70’s. He was a cool cat.


46 posted on 10/04/2013 6:57:56 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (What's the frequency, Kenneth?)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


47 posted on 10/04/2013 7:34:31 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: donmeaker

Isn’t it ironic?

We take millions into our military, teach them to shoot & defend themselves & kill an enemy.

Then when they get out of the military, everything we have paid them to learn is now illegal???

The blowback is coming. Sooner than we realize.

A word to Obama & Jerry Brown: PAYBACK is a BITCH!!!!!


48 posted on 10/05/2013 9:07:50 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: gundog

No clue. The stocks and mags have been on back-order for MONTHS


49 posted on 10/05/2013 9:53:06 AM PDT by Salgak (http://catalogoftehburningstoopid.blogspot.com 100% all-natural snark !)
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To: ridesthemiles

Shooting people who wear the wrong color clothes has always been illegal outside active military actions.

Nothing new.


50 posted on 10/05/2013 10:34:40 AM PDT by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar are soon to be relearned.)
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