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General Vo Nguyen Giap dies aged 102
BBC News ^ | 4th October 2013 | BBC News

Posted on 10/04/2013 11:16:02 AM PDT by the scotsman

'Vo Nguyen Giap, the Vietnamese general who masterminded victories against France and the US, has died aged 102.

His defeat of French forces at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 effectively ended French colonial rule in the region.

He was North Vietnam's defence minister at the time of the Tet Offensive against American forces in 1968, often cited as a key campaign that led to the Americans' withdrawal.

Gen Giap also published a number of works on military strategy.'

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 10/04/2013 11:16:02 AM PDT by the scotsman
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To: the scotsman

Is Obama flying the flag at half-mast?


2 posted on 10/04/2013 11:18:11 AM PDT by Phillyred
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To: Phillyred

LOL. I was going to ask how long until California makes his birthday a state holiday, with other famous commies like MLK and Cesar Chavez.


3 posted on 10/04/2013 11:19:36 AM PDT by Defiant (A rainbow curtain has descended upon the west, from Munich to San Francisco.)
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To: the scotsman

Bet John Kerry attends the funeral.


4 posted on 10/04/2013 11:21:34 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Phillyred
"who masterminded victories against France and the US"

In point of fact, when the 1973 Soviet-style blitzkrieg offensive failed with heavy losses because the US backed-up the ARVN with air-power, Giap told the Central Committee that they would never win as long as the US remained involved.

He was relieved of command.

In 1975, the Democrats cut-off all assistance, and then the North won.

The Democratic Party is responsible for the North Vietnamese victory, and if they had all been hanged for treason then, we wouldn't be putting up with this BS now.

5 posted on 10/04/2013 11:23:22 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: the scotsman

Jane Fonda is deeply saddened.


6 posted on 10/04/2013 11:25:11 AM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: the scotsman
His defeat of French forces at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 effectively ended French colonial rule in the region. And tried the same at Khe Sahn only to get smashed.

The French air power only had about F4U Corsairs to fight off the Viet Minh Communists while the US at Khe Sahn had massive air power.

7 posted on 10/04/2013 11:26:16 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: the scotsman

Giap’s vaunted TET offensive shocked the American Army, but had the same effect and result as Hitler’s Ardennes offensive.
IN the end the Americans had virtually destroyed the fighting effectiveness of both attackers.
In 1944, the Bulge won, the American never ceased to advance as the Germans retreated, though fighting every inch of the way.
In Vietnam, Giap’s army retreated in dissaray until Walter Cronkite, pronounced ,”This was is LOST.” Thus, the Americans gave up and went home.
Maybe it is a good think Cronkite was not TV as the Germans retreated from Bastogne.


8 posted on 10/04/2013 11:26:32 AM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf (NY TIMES: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: Red Steel

“The French air power only had about F4U Corsairs to fight off” = only had about [4] F4U Corsairs ...


9 posted on 10/04/2013 11:29:39 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: the scotsman
He was North Vietnam's defence minister at the time of the Tet Offensive against American forces in 1968, often cited as a key campaign that led to the Americans' withdrawal.

The NVN got it's ass handed to them during the so-called Tet Offensive. It was Walter Cronkite who led to the American withdrawal with his pronouncements of American losses and speculation that the war was being lost.

10 posted on 10/04/2013 11:30:16 AM PDT by mc5cents (Pray for America)
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To: pierrem15

He underestimated the power of the American left.


11 posted on 10/04/2013 11:30:16 AM PDT by Phillyred
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To: pierrem15

Soviet style blitzkrieg? Respectfully, would you site an example? Also, the so called “peace treaty” was signed in January of 1973, possibly you meant an earlier year ?

Thank you.


12 posted on 10/04/2013 11:34:22 AM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: pierrem15

By way of clarification, when did The Soviets engage in blitzkrieg? Thank you.


13 posted on 10/04/2013 11:36:35 AM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: Phillyred

thinking of america’s enemies like ho chi minh, che guevara, freidrich engels and fidel casto, obama is never at half-mast...


14 posted on 10/04/2013 11:46:50 AM PDT by stonewall_jackson215
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To: jttpwalsh

Wrong year: I meant the 1972 Easter Offensive, which involved (in part) armored elements coming down Highway 1 directly from NV.


15 posted on 10/04/2013 11:51:57 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: the scotsman

McCain’s best friend is dead.


16 posted on 10/04/2013 11:53:40 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: pierrem15

I understand. In some ways, it was a lifetime ago, in other ways, it seems like yesterday. Funny, how life is. Thanks.


17 posted on 10/04/2013 11:58:05 AM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: jttpwalsh
"Blitzkrieg" is used as a general term to describe attacks using massed armor, so the Soviets certainly mastered the technique in WWII.

The final NVA assault down the coast in 1975 was in part a "standard" Soviet-style blitzkrieg consisting of at least 3 waves of armored forces stacked behind one another. The 1972 attack was a 'dry-run'.

18 posted on 10/04/2013 11:58:52 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: the scotsman

Trust he’s toasting in the type of Hell he helped create for so many millions.


19 posted on 10/04/2013 12:06:27 PM PDT by chesley (Vast deserts of political ignorance makes liberalism possible - James Lewis)
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To: Red Steel

They also had Bearcats and B-26 Invaders.


20 posted on 10/04/2013 12:16:27 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: pierrem15
The 1972 attack was a 'dry-run'.
No feckin' way. I suggest you look up Capt. John Ripley, USMC, and the Dong Ha Bridge.
21 posted on 10/04/2013 12:21:40 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: pierrem15

Respectfully, the German term, “Blitzkrieg” is from WW II, and includes a strong air power component, along with massed armor. I understand, now, your description, just differed on the term “Blitzkrieg”. Thanks for the update!


22 posted on 10/04/2013 12:22:48 PM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: the scotsman

Wow. This guy was able to defeat the French? What an amazing feat! /sarc


23 posted on 10/04/2013 12:55:41 PM PDT by Cowboy Bob (They are called "Liberals" because the word "parasite" was already taken.)
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To: the scotsman

DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!


24 posted on 10/04/2013 1:55:12 PM PDT by Jack_Reed
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To: oh8eleven

Thanks! Amazing story!


25 posted on 10/04/2013 2:43:52 PM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: Cowboy Bob

“Wow. This guy was able to defeat the French? What an amazing feat! /sarc”

The French defeat was more shameful for us than it was for them; they hadn’t wanted to fight the war, but were coerced into it by the US to “contain communism” (that certainly sounds ludicrous today in light of our relationship with Red China). We armed them to the teeth (including lending an aircraft carrier), provided advisors, and when they really needed it we wouldn’t send air power to Dien Bien Phu (which had been visited by some of those very advisors). The worst betrayal, and what sealed the doom of the French in Indochina, was the armistice in Korea (apparently France was supposed to fight while we negotiated a peace). Within months of the armistice Red Chinese heavy artillery and advisors were in the siege ring around the valley, and there was no way the French could win.


26 posted on 10/04/2013 3:54:37 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Cowboy Bob

I haven't had a chance to post this for a while, always looking for a chance...but I will say this:

There wasn't much to laugh about with respect to those guys a Dien Bien Phu. They fought hard, and were left out to dry by their country.

I pity those men.

27 posted on 10/04/2013 4:39:40 PM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: rlmorel

What happened to our military was a national disgrace, and more.


28 posted on 10/04/2013 4:41:28 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: the scotsman

https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/386126088243404800


29 posted on 10/04/2013 4:46:26 PM PDT by Kennard
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To: the scotsman; mickie; flaglady47; pax_et_bonum; seekthetruth; hoosiermama
General Gap
Takes dirt nap
Who gives a...
...rap?

Leni

30 posted on 10/04/2013 4:48:28 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: trisham

I agree 100%.

It is one of the prime reasons, amongst others, I detest hippies, liberalism and the Sixties counter-culture and all thing associated with it.

I was a military brat living overseas during that time, and as a kid, I hated damned hippies.

The things they were saying about my father and my friend’s fathers made me really angry.

When the time came to rotate back to the states, I didn’t want to go.


31 posted on 10/04/2013 5:02:11 PM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: Kennard

That tweet shows that twit is a Manchurian Candidate.


32 posted on 10/04/2013 5:06:07 PM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: kearnyirish2

Sorry. I disagree with you wholeheartedly. The idea that we could “coerce” DeGaulle’s France to do any damned thing IN THE 1950’s is laughable on its face.

I presume you WERE alive then and remember what it was like.

Kearnyirish2, the French OWNED it. It was their pride and damned colonial roots that drove them to it.

It is ludicrous to pin THAT on the USA.


33 posted on 10/04/2013 5:09:04 PM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: the scotsman

He finally died? Better late than never.


34 posted on 10/04/2013 6:51:21 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: pierrem15
Now let's not confuse anybody with the facts.

The current SOS was allied with the communists, and they credit his service in their cause.

Last time we heard from Mr Heinz, he was ready to report for duty in Syria, but another even crazier marxist said no.

35 posted on 10/04/2013 6:55:18 PM PDT by Rome2000 (THE WASHINGTONIANS AND UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE ARE THE ENEMY -ROTATE THE CAPITAL AMONGST THE STATES)
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To: rlmorel

Not a very factual argument; pure anti-French blather. After WWII the French had to re-arm surrendered Japanese troops to police the colony and deal with the Viet Minh; they had no troops or public support for the Indochina War. DeGaulle didn’t lead France in the war; he returned a decade later. French troops wore American helmets, used American weapons, and the US funded the war.

If you would read or research a bit you’d understand.


36 posted on 10/05/2013 4:11:15 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: pierrem15
coming down Highway 1 directly from NV.

Highway 1 runs between Maine and Florida along the east coast. It's not in Nevada........./Humor

37 posted on 10/05/2013 4:20:21 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Ms. Muffett suffered from arachnophobia)
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To: kearnyirish2

Hahahahah. Coerce the French, now that is funny.

Go educate yourself. Yours is pure anti-American blather.

Thank God for the Aussies. They haven’t stabbed us in the back like some of our “friends” over the years.


38 posted on 10/05/2013 4:33:53 AM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: rlmorel

More blather without facts.

“Thank God for the Aussies. They haven’t stabbed us in the back like some of our “friends” over the years.”

The French reacted to our stab in the back by developing nuclear weapons and leaving NATO; they haven’t been attacked since.

Less than a decade after Dien Bien Phu, we did it again (albeit on a much smaller scale) at the Bay of Pigs; what’s your excuse for that?


39 posted on 10/05/2013 4:48:03 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Sure. You read some liberal revisionist history book and took it in hook line and sinker.

As proof you say they used american helmets guns and planes.

Let’s see. You have a country, with a colonial holding that they were trying to hold on to (or, gee...did they try to just hand it back to the Vietnamese?) five years removed from having their country occupied for five years where they were generating no tax revenue and the country’s industry was barely coming back and the government coffers were empty.

They wanted to hold on to their colonial holding. The people who wanted the country were communists. They had no money to raise a large army to project power.

Where on earth could they possibly get military supplies? Gee, there is this country that was massively demobilizing up to the Korean war, and had warehouses bulging with helmets, rifles and were even shoving planes over the sides of ships, they just couldn’t figure out what to do with them!

But, wait! They have a former ally who needed equipment we were going to trash, who was going to hold onto a colonial possession that was likely going to be communist if they just handed it over, and...what to do? Gee...how about we forgive all their debts going back to WWI, and give them scads of money in addition to Marshall Plan money which didn’t need to be paid back? Sounds like a great plan.

All this, of course was fed from within from the factions that were siding with DeGaulle who wanted to hold onto French possessions like Algeria and French Indochina (Degaulle, was, after all the nationalist, the one who all those people in favor of fighting the communists in French Indochina and in Algeria sided with. Politically, it WAS “DeGaulle’s France”. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have been fighting. Right?

Right?

Oh, yeah, but it was the Evil, Backstabbing Americans who betrayed the French in Indochina. We twisted their arms to fight there then stabbed them in the back.

Put a sock in it.

My country has plenty to be ashamed of with respect to our treatment of our South Vietnamese allies who trusted us, and we stabbed them in the back, to our shame.

We don’t need some other eurotrash trying to pin their own follies on us as well.

As for the Bay of Pigs, we have plenty to be ashamed of there as well. We have plenty to regret, but French stupidity and ineptitude is not one of them.


40 posted on 10/05/2013 12:01:05 PM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: the scotsman
'Vo Nguyen Giap, the Vietnamese general who masterminded victories against France and the US, has died aged 102.

His secret weapon -- all those puns about "Fall into the Giap," "Mind the Giap," "Credibility Giap" and "Generation Giap" -- really got under Johnson's and Nixon's skin.

P.S. How do we know that he actually died now and not years ago? Will he be mummified and placed in a mausoleum, or has he already been pretty well pickeled by old age?

41 posted on 10/05/2013 12:04:10 PM PDT by x
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To: rlmorel

You’re full of it; the Indochina War started long before the Korean War finished. France admitted they couldn’t hold onto the colony by military means; we pushed them to fight the Viet Minh, denying them a separation along the lines of the British with their Commonwealth.

De Gaulle didn’t lead France during the Indochina War, but he did WHEN THEY GAVE INDEPENDENCE TO ALGERIA (and that was not considered a colony, but a part of France itself).

If you can’t refute my points stop pretending; you don’t appear smart.


42 posted on 10/05/2013 3:26:47 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

You are just full of it.

I don’t usually make it a point to be rude to people online, but that seems to be the only way you function.

Here’s a clue: why don’t you learn some manners? I disagreed with you, and in no way insulted you. You could have made your point without characterizing my post as “pure anti-French blather”, but reviewing your posts, that appears to be your only way to communicate.

Take it elsewhere. Don’t know why, but people like you have been appearing on FR with increasing frequency the last few years.

If you can’t have polite discourse without disparaging someone else, we don’t want you here.


43 posted on 10/05/2013 6:31:33 PM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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