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USE OF FORCE TO BE STUDIED IN DC POLICE CHASE
Associated Press ^ | October 7, 2013 | Larry Neumeister,Eric Tucker

Posted on 10/07/2013 4:36:16 AM PDT by Biggirl

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Police in Washington are reviewing the use of officers' deadly force in the killing of a woman who tried to ram her car through a White House barrier, a shooting her family says was unjustified.

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: black; brooklyn; capitol; dc; dcpolice; drill; mentalillness; miriamcarey; senate
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1 posted on 10/07/2013 4:36:17 AM PDT by Biggirl
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To: Biggirl

What, they were supposed to let her keep going until she killed someone?


2 posted on 10/07/2013 4:37:56 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia

Was she trying to get to Obama?


3 posted on 10/07/2013 4:40:11 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: La Lydia
I agree...It had to be stopped...

I have a gut feeling that there is more to this girl than her physco history.

4 posted on 10/07/2013 4:42:30 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Biggirl

“Death by U-Turn” might be the point where one begins to question the current Fedthug police state.


5 posted on 10/07/2013 4:43:03 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Biggirl
The film that I saw combined with the account I read (speeding toward the Capitol?) suggests to me that deadly force was probably a legitimate option.The woman went bonkers.Twenty years on the staff of a large hospital's ER has taught me that stuff like that happens and it's usually not pretty.Her misfortune was that her illness took the form of threatening national leaders/institutions rather than assuming the fetal position in bed and refusing to eat or maintaining a 5,000 pound collection of rubber bands.
6 posted on 10/07/2013 4:43:49 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Osama Obama Care: A Religion That Will Have You On Your Knees!)
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To: Biggirl
They said she left her boyfriend a note with white powder.

Like I said...There's more to this girl than her nutso history.

7 posted on 10/07/2013 4:44:06 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Biggirl
I've seen no video. Was her car capable of ramming through a WH barricade? Was it a styrofoam fluted column?
8 posted on 10/07/2013 4:44:08 AM PDT by HomeAtLast (The original Tea Party entailed a willingness to do without some tea.)
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To: Biggirl

Who in the White House is the baby’s father?


9 posted on 10/07/2013 4:45:00 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: La Lydia

I don’t know, but I watched that video through its entirety.

Initially, there was a quick volley of shots at close range (the child was in the car at that time) Seven in all.

The lady managed to slowly (what looked like to me)work her way out of that. The video keeps rolling and then the car finally passes out of sight. I heard 2 shots a little while later, and then a couple three minutes after that was a barrage of so many quick shots, I couldn’t even count them (at least 30-50) but there was no onsite video......

To me, something is not jibing with this story and the police reaction.


10 posted on 10/07/2013 4:45:48 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: ilovesarah2012
Was she trying to get to Obama?

She had driven from Stamford, CT, to DC without telling anyone. I think her family said they believed she was taking her daughter to a doctor's appointment.

Her initial encounter with police was when she reportedly drove over several low barricades and into a driveway leading to the White House. There, she was stopped by a larger barricade.

Her family members reported that she thought Obama was monitoring her, so he could broadcast her life on TV. To me, it seems like she mixed up an obsession with Obama, plus the revelations about NSA spying, and came up with a bizarre scenario.

11 posted on 10/07/2013 4:48:01 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: Gay State Conservative
The woman went bonkers.Twenty years on the staff of a large hospital's ER has taught me that stuff like that happens and it's usually not pretty. Her misfortune was that her illness took the form of threatening national leaders/institutions rather than assuming the fetal position in bed and refusing to eat or maintaining a 5,000 pound collection of rubber bands.

And people wonder why I have a dentist phobia.

12 posted on 10/07/2013 4:49:27 AM PDT by HomeAtLast (The original Tea Party entailed a willingness to do without some tea.)
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To: Gaffer

Police in dc are trained to treat every incident as a potential terrorist incident. Except two weeks ago at the navy yard they pulled the swat team out. Its not a conspiracy its incompetence.


13 posted on 10/07/2013 4:51:32 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Gaffer

The initial volley of fire seems to be at the tires, because I don’t recall any of the vehicle windows breaking with the first volley.

But I have only seen the video once.


14 posted on 10/07/2013 4:51:33 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: justlurking

She appears to have been disturbed. Doesnt mean she was dangerous.


15 posted on 10/07/2013 4:52:47 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Gaffer
Me too and I agree.

Cops surrounded the car ... four tires taken out effectively stops her.

16 posted on 10/07/2013 4:55:13 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Biggirl

Yes they need to study the question of what to to when the vehicle is stopped and there is a child in there. Do you shoot first or do you reach in and remove the child and then empty your clips into her??? A real dilemma.


17 posted on 10/07/2013 4:55:43 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: HomeAtLast

???


18 posted on 10/07/2013 4:55:51 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Osama Obama Care: A Religion That Will Have You On Your Knees!)
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To: driftdiver
She appears to have been disturbed. Doesnt mean she was dangerous.

In hindsight, that's easy to see -- if you discount driving 80 mph through the equivalent of a national park with tourists walking around.

But at that moment, the police didn't know any of this. And frankly, her erratic behavior looked like a failed car bombing in the absence of that information.

19 posted on 10/07/2013 4:59:43 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: justlurking

I read the article. My question was facetious.


20 posted on 10/07/2013 4:59:46 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: knarf

I have seen countless police chases where 4 flat tires had little effect until the car was down to just rims.

There’s virtually no immediate effect of shooting out 4 tires in a low-speed situation.


21 posted on 10/07/2013 5:02:19 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: La Lydia

According to a witness interview, they REMOVED THE CHILD FROM THE CAR BEFORE KILLING HER!

If that’s true, there was no lawful reason to shoot her.

As it is a clear indication they had the car sufficiently blocked to enter the car.


22 posted on 10/07/2013 5:04:12 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: Gay State Conservative

She was a dental hygienist. One of those people who expect you to lie on your back, open your mouth and let them in while they think about stalking obama and running amok in DC.


23 posted on 10/07/2013 5:08:16 AM PDT by HomeAtLast (The original Tea Party entailed a willingness to do without some tea.)
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To: Biggirl

I think they’re being jumpy. They’ve been instructed that there just might be an insurrection in reaction to all of Bammy’s crap, and there you go....trigger happy cops.


24 posted on 10/07/2013 5:13:36 AM PDT by Thorliveshere (I wish I lived in Texas.)
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To: La Lydia

they had the car stopped, took the baby out then shot her

see?


25 posted on 10/07/2013 5:14:31 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: G Larry

If the car wasn’t sufficiently surrounded they needed more cars. There is no excuse for shooting a perpetrator in the head to stop a bomb or crash threat. Even White House fence jumpers are shot in the arm or leg.


26 posted on 10/07/2013 5:15:16 AM PDT by erlayman
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To: Sacajaweau

no

ok Sacajawea

so you are upset, get gong the wrong way into a police action, you are petrified of those thugs, as I am, so you try to get outta Dodge and they chase you, and shoot you, really?


27 posted on 10/07/2013 5:16:36 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: HomeAtLast

HER car rammed into nothing. A cop car hurt itself when it ran over a barricade trying to get to her. Her car was not bashed up. Cops are lying


28 posted on 10/07/2013 5:17:35 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: La Lydia
What, they were supposed to let her keep going until she killed someone?

Any evidence that she had any intent to hurt someone? Should the police also shoot drunk drivers and kids doing donuts in parking lots?

It appears to me that the officers involved are drilled every day to look for terrorist threats and it becomes an issue of every problem looking like a nail, when the only tool you've got is a hammer.

29 posted on 10/07/2013 5:18:34 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: ltc8k6

You see only what they want you to see..... Something stinks here. A scene from things to come when it comes to Obama and his minions.


30 posted on 10/07/2013 5:20:35 AM PDT by baddog 219
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To: HomeAtLast
She was a dental hygienist.

Oh,OK...got it! Yes,mental illness can afflict medical people just as it can afflict "ordinary" people.I could tell you stories about a few of the physicians and nurses with whom I worked.

31 posted on 10/07/2013 5:20:50 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Osama Obama Care: A Religion That Will Have You On Your Knees!)
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To: justlurking

The multitude of shots was more of a threat then her car or driving. She wasn’t getting close to any buildings. Whats more limely in dc, a deranged person or a terrorist? History shows a deranged person is more likely. Heck the one time they have a terrorist at the navy yard they screw it up.


32 posted on 10/07/2013 5:21:29 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

She had postpartum depression that would have come on only in the last year.


33 posted on 10/07/2013 5:22:42 AM PDT by erlayman
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To: Caipirabob

Indeed.


34 posted on 10/07/2013 5:23:33 AM PDT by sauropod (Fat Bottomed Girl: "What difference, at this point, does it make?")
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To: erlayman

Her car WAS “sufficiently surrounded” at the time they removed the child, before shooting the mother.

Did you get that point yet?


35 posted on 10/07/2013 5:28:25 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: SampleMan
It goes even further: we have armed and equipped our cops to look like commandos and we have heightened the divide between "civilians" and law enforcement agencies to the point that it almost seems like an occupying army. It only takes the smallest excuse to turn a minor confrontation into a full-on fusillade.

There is no excuse whatsoever for shooting this woman: she approached some barriers near the White House where she was confronted at very close range by the guards who tried to block her in. She panicked and rabbited off in her luxury car and was chased. Had she been armed, they would have known during that initial confrontation. She raced off through DC traffic and headed towards the congressional complex and then was riddled with gunfire with her baby in the car.

What kind of country have we turned into? Cops aren't suited, mentally or constitutionally for combat. That should be left to the professionals and used against foreign enemies, not mentally fragile moms in cars.

36 posted on 10/07/2013 5:32:14 AM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Biggirl

Cops kill people. So?


37 posted on 10/07/2013 5:35:26 AM PDT by Anton.Rutter
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To: G Larry

Yes, that is what I said exactly. IF it had not been blocked in the police needed to bring in more vehicles. In other words, there is still no excuse, even the Secret Service said their was no serious threat.


38 posted on 10/07/2013 5:47:52 AM PDT by erlayman
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To: Biggirl

I’m a little confused about how this went down. I’ve seen the video with her parked and the police pointing guns at her, then the car circles a few times. Does that video cover the whole incident or was there more that wasn’t on video? They say it started when she “rammed “ a barricade but I don’t see damage on the front grill or bumper. I see on the video where she bumped a barricade. If that’s what provoked this woman being killed, then yeah, it’s another case of unnecessary escalation of the use of force by police.


39 posted on 10/07/2013 5:53:36 AM PDT by virgil
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To: Biggirl

What this showed me was a hair trigger response of police that was not too professional. As several have said, shoot out the tires. Hit the engine and smash the block. Both actions immobilize the car.

I was distressed at shooting at the car with a baby in it.


40 posted on 10/07/2013 6:05:05 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: ltc8k6
It all comes down to, then .. a judgement call by the leo's.

I wonder ... did they see/perceive panic on the face of the lady?

Was the baby crying?

Parents read their children's faces and society operates on people perceiving each other ... something human is missing these days.

41 posted on 10/07/2013 6:10:21 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: driftdiver

“She appears to have been disturbed. Doesnt mean she was dangerous.”

Good point.

We all know it’s the calm and rational people that decide to run over people with their car and not the disturbed.

Disturbed people driving wild are a threat to no one.


42 posted on 10/07/2013 6:19:47 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Biggirl

My wife tells me I am no longer allowed to go to Washington- I drive exactly like the young lady .


43 posted on 10/07/2013 6:22:36 AM PDT by wildernessvoice67
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To: Biggirl

The DC police acted stupidly. The capital was on edge, worried there might be an uprising because of the ‘shutdown’ or 0bamacare. They expected trouble. They were incapable of understanding that they had a disturbed woman, now afraid for HER life.


44 posted on 10/07/2013 6:31:30 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: baddog 219

Something always stinks with Obama and Co.

I’m sure Jesse and Al will let us know how much it stinks, and how much we are going to pay.


45 posted on 10/07/2013 6:41:41 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: knarf

We will probably never get an accurate and complete report.

We will, as is often the case, have to try and figure things out as best we can on our own.

With the media we have, we are largely on our own to filter out the noise and try to find the signal.


46 posted on 10/07/2013 6:44:46 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: Gay State Conservative
speeding toward the Capitol?

Speeding past the capitol. She was killed close to the residential area in NE DC, a couple blocks NE of the capitol.

47 posted on 10/07/2013 6:46:28 AM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: yldstrk
Her car was not bashed up.

Her car had major rear end damage. However it had very minor damange on the front end. She was clearly not trying to ram anything, just backing up so she could turn and flee the cops who were shooting at her. She obviously didn't pay attention to what she was backing into.

Her last maneuver was backing up into a large plastic trash container.

48 posted on 10/07/2013 6:51:37 AM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: virgil
I don't see damage on the front grill or bumper

There was very minor damage on the front bumper on the driver's side. Looks like about 5 mph of impact.

49 posted on 10/07/2013 6:53:19 AM PDT by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: Biggirl
Two D.C. Attacks and a Series of Unfortunate “Coincidences”
50 posted on 10/07/2013 7:29:30 AM PDT by opentalk
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