Posted on 10/14/2013 8:57:50 AM PDT by celmak
Possibly. I sure don't.
ANY accusation the left makes about the right is going to be at the very least superficially plausible. Those accusations only gain so much power as the right grants their plausibility.
Generally I would agree. With respect to the Gadsden flag do you know anyone on the right who believes it to be offensive? I do not. But we can see that there are some folks - even on this site - who do hold that opinion about the battle flag. Even among conservatives there is disagreement.
Granting those accusations ANY plausibility is nothing less than betrayal of ones idealogical coworkers.
Nonsense.
Do we know if the person carrying the confederate flag was a dem decoy?
Do you know anyone on the right that advocates slavery?
If no one on the right advocates slavery, by what rationale does one from the right countenance accusations that imply the right does advocate slavery?
I also see folks declare themselves and others contemporary slaves (to the state). IMO this gross mischaracterization leaves the barn door wide open for others to broadbrush all of us.
This isn't a binary black/white, all or none thing but rather a series of gradations. Why give them any ammunition that only serves to drive our message off point?
States rights to do what? One of the southern insurrectionists complaints was that northern states didn’t support slavery in their own state boundary.
The slave states were for oppressive federal government power in free states to be exerted to enforce slavery.
The insurrection was started to further and extend slavery, in opposition to the northern state authority to ban slavery in their own territory, and to elect government officials in accordance with the constitution.
The insurrection was put down to restore the Union.
“Confederate flag is stained with the evil of slavery, it was birthed that way and cannot get away from its founding. It is a stumbling block for anyone who flys it.”
I hear what you’re saying, but there are those out there that say the same thing about the Union flag, being that slavery was part of this republic at its founding, and that the war between the states was not reducible to the one issue. Indeed, the unbalanced, partially American Indian girl in New England who pulled up all the American flags representing those who died on September 11th said something similar. Those outraged by the sight of the Confederate battle flag are usually happy to be in the same camp as she is.
And I’m sure as a Texan you’ve already heard about fear of a revolt of Union troops with the Emancipation Proclamation and have considered why this didn’t come until 1863 when the shooting part of the war began in 1861.
I think picking out something like this is out of the Alinsky playbook, and don’t think we’re obliged to go along with it. The stars and bars more represented the slave-owning elite and Confederate officialdom whereas the battle flag more represented the average Confederate soldier, most of whom owned no slaves. Isn’t that the case? But I put it to you that there would be less outcry if that flag were seen than the battle flag which, for a much longer time than the Confederacy existed, has been a representation of Southern pride.
“...but I like programing them some days too..”
Playing with your food again, ehh? Haha!
Unfortunately, political correctness is taking over the GOP. You see it in some of the posters here with their comments about the Confederacy, you see it in the halls of Congress and the Senate with their support for amnesty for illegal immigrants and their lack of incentive to roll back affirmative action.
You did nothing of the sort. I see a rant with a lot of name-calling and very few facts.
So I repeat my question: what the the 19th century Democratic party, which represented an ideology of limited government and state's rights have in common with the Democratic party of the later part of the 20th century and today (i.e. the party of centralized government and the welfare state)? What do Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have in common with Thomas Jefferson or Grover Cleveland?
The answer, of course, is that they have nothing in common, so your trying to retroject the liberalism and welfare state socialism of today's Democrats onto those of the Confederacy is either born of extreme ignorance, extreme dishonesty, or both.
The founders of this nation did not see fit to abolish slavery or to grant the vote to blacks either. So following your specious "logic," the United States was "born of evil" just as the "wicked" Confederacy was. You're so blinded by hatred of the Confederacy that you simply can't or won't see the hypocrisy and double standards in your statements.
I'd suggest that you read some of the OP's posts. He's not saying that flying a Confederate flag is out of place here (in the way that carrying a statue of the Virgin Mary would be). Every one of his posts asserts that the Confederacy is evil, and all those who honor it (including those whose ancestors died fighting for it) are evil. He's simply using this unfortunate incident as a stick to beat the Confederacy and the Southerners who honor its memory with, much as an NAACP activist would.
I understand what you're saying, personally I'm sick of conservatives who want to play the "let's pretend JFK was a heroic leader and great President because the liberal Democrats and the media say he was",
If Kennedy hadn't been assassinated, I doubt that his fans would have so much sway. Nothing creates (false) moral authority for the mediocre as perceived martyrdom.
The whole of your writing is a valid argument; the crux of it is your above quote. The argument against it is that there is a difference in the circumstances of which both flags were born out of; one was for freedom (Stars and Stripes), the other for slavery (Confederate ).
”Indeed, the unbalanced, partially American Indian girl in New England who pulled up all the American flags representing those who died on September 11th said something similar.”
I know where some of the American Indians come from when they say that the US flag represents the Indian Holocaust to them, but there are also others, whom I agree with more, that if it were not the US, it would have been Spain, France or Russia that came in to take over North America; and they would be much worse off. Let’s face it, the American Indians were not a united group. They were often at war with each other and were ripe for any nation to come in and slaughtered – this was the way of man for centuries. I’m not justifying sinful behavior; but Lord knows the US is one of the few that have repented from this “sin”. But then, it can be argued that conquests may not be sinful either.
I have cousins that are Apache in Mexico that can attest to the deplorable way the Mexican government treats them there; much worse than in the US. In fact, the US treats their indigenous people much better than any country in history – most live tax free and are thriving. This is fine with me; I wish I could live tax free – that is true economic freedom! These whom I agree with, and there are many, realize that man’s history has been about conquering other nations until just recently; and the US was one of the first to change that way of thinking. So the bottom line is, I do not agree with what that one American Indian girl did and would tell her not only the same thing I state above but a few other things as well – decently of course.
As to the Stars and Stripes and the Confederate flag, there are two options here; to see if grace or condemnation is applicable. The Stars and Stripes does have a history of representing men that oppressed others; but it was not born out of oppression but of liberty, and this nation has repented on many occasions of its wrong doing (sometimes even when it has not done anything wrong – but that’s because of Libs). It also has a Biblically based history, which those of us who are under this flag, and who believe the principals of the Bible, will always be a rudder of direction in truth until there is none of us left.
On the other hand, as I have written about before, the Confederate flag was birthed as the representation of the want to keep slaves. David Barton – who is a true Texan – shows from the original writings that this is true.
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=92
The Confederate flag was founded by the Democrat Slaver Party. Now people may say that the Democrat Slaver Party has changed since then, but unlike the Stars and Stripes (unless there is a Democrat President, or RINO President) it is still a better representation of the Democrat Slaver party today than is of people who wish to use it to go against whatever disagreement they with the federal government. We should be shoving it in the faces of Democrats and reminding them of their history with that flag, as they are doing not only the same things they did then but are doing much worse things now.
I will point out, as I have written in a previous post, that a friend of mine in Mississippi flies the Bonnie Blue state flag, the flag that flew before the modern day state flag of Mississippi; it is a white star with a blue background. Every state has a way to express their states good heritage in the same way, and it can be done without containing what symbolizes the Democrat Slaver Party.
“I don’t care what flag anybody flies. ...(snip)...
But there are a bunch of goobers who think every event absolutely has to have a rebel flag at it.” - D
Conflicted much?
Concurring bump.
At events like this that garner national attention, the Confederate battle flag is a distraction which dilutes the Tea Party message when unity and focus should be the over-riding objective.
That said, I don't see anything particularly sinister about the young man in the photo. He's obviously proud to be an American, which is a lot more than you can say about the vast majority of protesters on the left.
The whole of your writing is a valid argument; the crux of it is your above quote. The argument against it is that there is a difference in the circumstances of which both flags were born out of; one was for freedom (Stars and Stripes), the other for slavery (Confederate
Tell that to the first slaves or the native Americans. See to some there is no difference, to you there is and that is where you are missing the point , also the KKK flew the stars and stripes.
WOW I agree with every word, it had to happen one day that I would agree with you I suppose.
Uh, no; free blacks legally voted then; and there were states in which slavery was illegal. There was also those who argued against slavery and got the 3/5ths compromise. The main point of the creation of this country was freedom for men, and eventually for all men.
"You're so blinded by hatred of the Confederacy that you simply can't or won't see the hypocrisy and double standards in your statements."
Again, no. My hatred for slavery is justified, as is my hatred for everything the Democrat Slaver party - and its flag, the Confederate flag - has and does stand for . Not only slavery of in the old and new manner, but abortion, socialism, communism, liberalism, etc.
read the rest of my post, I rebut what you state in it.
see post 266
Southbasher can’t seem to stir up much help can he
Maybe his pards are on furlough from the shutdown and away from daytime computers
And I’m not kidding
Nice to see so many freepers with common sense
Many who I’ve never seen wade in
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.