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Senate Debt Deal Includes Provision Lessening Congress' Power On Debt Ceiling
Breitbart ^

Posted on 10/16/2013 4:49:51 PM PDT by Perdogg

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To: bt_dooftlook

In 1863 when President Lincoln gave the Gettysburg Address the Earth was a different place....


151 posted on 10/17/2013 12:05:31 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

I hope you guys/gals are right.


152 posted on 10/17/2013 2:25:10 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Cboldt
The house has dibs on origination of TAXING (bills for raising revenue), not on spending. Obviously the House has to agree to the spending.

Your second sentence above must be added to the power to acquire revenue (raise revenue). Seldom will there be the notion "let's just raise a billion dollars" without some reason attached for doing so, even if it's simply "let's raise a billion to have sitting in an account." The purpose is: "to have sitting in an account" in that instance.

And, the power to block any other use of that money is, as you say, contained in the requirement that the Senate and House must agree on any bill going forward.

So far as my comment that "disbursing funds" is the domain of the House, I would have to agree with you in terms of the exact wording of the Constitution. However, the "purpose" for raising those funds is generally assumed in the raising of them.

The bottom line is that for the most part I agree with you. Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate precision, and you forcing me to be precise. That's a good thing.

153 posted on 10/17/2013 2:33:05 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins
-- Seldom will there be the notion "let's just raise a billion dollars" without some reason attached for doing so, even if it's simply "let's raise a billion to have sitting in an account." --

Heh. And that's the rub. The Supreme Court has defined a "bill for raising revenue" as a bill that has the primary purpose of general operation of government functions. IRS statutes, for example, just establish how to get the money, not how to spend it.

If a bill gives a particular object for spending the money on, then (even if it also raises taxes, see Obama care and the medical devices tax) it is not considered a bill for raising revenue, so it can originate in either chamber.

Not that any of it matters. The Supreme Court is in for a pound on the scheme of enlarging the power of the federal government.

154 posted on 10/17/2013 3:03:45 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: JRandomFreeper
You are correct on all counts /johnny. If there is good news as bad as this looks, it's very short term, exposed our good guys and our weak ones, and exposed Obamacare

2010 was not an anomaly. It will be repeated x2 in 2014.

155 posted on 10/17/2013 3:24:56 AM PDT by chiller (NBCNews et al is in the tank and should be embarrassed)
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To: Perdogg; All

Separation of powers???

Whatever happened to that???

Where is this process called the Supreme Court???

I guess when you blur the lines enoough where the people lose inerest in the crumbling of our system of checks and balances...

Where is the check and balances now???


156 posted on 10/17/2013 3:45:10 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Well, I hope you know what to do about them...


157 posted on 10/17/2013 3:47:27 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: JRandomFreeper; Cboldt

Are you looking for a bass player???

I’m available...

I hear they have a great healthcare plan, free parking (in the back), and a buffet lunch on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays...


158 posted on 10/17/2013 3:50:39 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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This is what you voted for?

And you voted for the Kentucky Kickback too?
Mitch McConnell is trying to blame others for this abuse, but everyone knows he negotiated this deal and everyone knows he wrote the bill.
If he didn’t want the earmark included, he could have kept it out.

AND...
“Also, this isn’t the first time he has supported funds for this project. He also requested $100 million for it in 2010.

Everyone (including you and your staff) gets waivers for obamacare.
And there isn't even a delay on the penalty for regular folk who pay for your insurance?(and everything else)

And I saw someone here posting that Boehner,Cantor, and McCarthy=leadership?
Leadership for who? The democrats?
I'm surprised that Mitch McConnell wasn't praised by them too.

Yep you had me fooled.
159 posted on 10/17/2013 4:06:38 AM PDT by novemberslady
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Lonely Conservative's blog-link to information about McConnell .
160 posted on 10/17/2013 4:09:59 AM PDT by novemberslady
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BTW you talk out of both sides of your mouth
shame on you.
161 posted on 10/17/2013 4:13:07 AM PDT by novemberslady
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To: Perdogg
MCCONNEL RECEIVED EARMARKS IN EXCHANGE FOR THIS DEAL INCLUDING MILLIONS FOR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS.

McConnel was bought cheap...

162 posted on 10/17/2013 4:54:26 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Perdogg

163 posted on 10/17/2013 5:07:13 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Perdogg

I can’t think of where in the Constitution, the current Congress has the authority to limit the constitutional powers of a future Congress.


164 posted on 10/17/2013 5:14:08 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
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To: Diogenesis
Well Said Diogenesis,

Kickbacks, that is how Sh!t like this gets passed.

Senators are like "I Better Get Goodies for my State!"-The Whole thing is a game, Lets make a deal, "How much Can I steal from Kansas and give to Kentucky?"

165 posted on 10/17/2013 5:59:25 AM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: Perdogg
yep
So when they decide not to raise the debt limit next year. Obama can just veto whatever they do, and raise it anyway.

Obama was asked by a reporter will they be going through this fight next year
(like the people posting to me suggested while trying to find the pony in the pile of manure)

Obama answered no that they wouldn't be.
Well Obama was telling the truth-he won't have to.

Good job there Boehner, Cantor and cohorts.
166 posted on 10/17/2013 6:05:53 AM PDT by novemberslady
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To: JRandomFreeper
"109 billion in automatic sequester cuts hits in January."

Sequester cuts will be negotiated away by the GOP Senate, Surely there are enough projects in GOP states that need funding to do in the Sequester cuts? And of course expect the Rats to offer some meaningless face saving "concessions" for eliminating the real Sequester savings.

167 posted on 10/17/2013 6:55:52 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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Please donate today!


168 posted on 10/17/2013 7:17:12 AM PDT by RedMDer (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)
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To: Cboldt

More right that not

Though, my copy of the Constitution doesn’t say Congress can ‘give away’ any authority/power vested to it by We the People. That would require another Amendment. But, I’m sure, that’s just the crazy (L) in me.


169 posted on 10/17/2013 7:20:00 AM PDT by i_robot73 (Give me one example and I will show where gov't is the root of the problem(s).)
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To: jpsb
Sounds like you have given up and don't intend to fight.

/johnny

170 posted on 10/17/2013 7:20:19 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Sounds to me like you think the GOPe believes in something other then getting reelected. Must be nice to be that naive, perhaps you should look at the votes from yesterday again. And while doing so keep in mind that at least one of the Senate votes were cover their ass up for reelection votes.

Next up 30 million new Democrat voters, once that passes and it will, game, set, match.

171 posted on 10/17/2013 7:31:50 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb
I'll keep fighting. And Cornyn must be primaried. I'll be walking the streets trying to get him removed. What are you going to do?

/johnny

172 posted on 10/17/2013 7:37:19 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: PubliusMM
Neither the dhimmicraps or the pubbies represent the will of the people at this juncture.

I would like to believe that, but I can't. The last national election convinced me that adoption of all-out full-bore socialism has finally become the will of the the majority of American voters. How else can we explain the re-election of by far the most socialistic president in US history?

And to make matters even worse, there are at least 13 million illegals, probably far more, waiting in the wings to be granted citizenship and voting rights (with help of the GOP btw), and we all know which party and what type of government they will vote for. We may as well face the hard truth folks, America as we adults have known it is over and done with never to return without massive spillage of patriot's blood.

173 posted on 10/17/2013 7:39:01 AM PDT by epow (God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Who are you going to replace Cornyn with? And oh bye the way that is not going to matter after amnesty passes. Amnesty is the real battle and things are not looking good. The rats have the GOP divided and now they are going for the throat. And you talk about primarying Cornyn? Wake up and see the big picture! We will need Cornyn on our side to stop amnesty, running a candidate against him will do us no good in the big fight coming up almost immediately.


174 posted on 10/17/2013 7:52:31 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb
So what are YOU going to do? Whine? I'll keep fighting.

/johnny

175 posted on 10/17/2013 7:55:45 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

“We’re operating under sequestration now. It continues and there are automatic sequestration cuts in January that total 109 billion. “

Sequester is just a budgetary guideline until an appropriation is pass, with this deal the funds are higher than the sequester guidelines so for all intents and purposes sequester has been gutted. The only thing that will remain in effect is the defense cuts but the rest can be used for any bing Barry wants to go on.


176 posted on 10/17/2013 7:56:08 AM PDT by Breto (Stranger in a strange land... where did America go?)
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To: Breto
with this deal the funds are higher than the sequester guideline

You haven't read the legislative summary, have you? The sequester cuts remain in the current CR.

/johnny

177 posted on 10/17/2013 7:58:33 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Yeah so you said, by walking the streets to get Cornyn unelected while the rest of us fight against amnesty. Way to go!


178 posted on 10/17/2013 8:00:08 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb
I'll be fighting amnesty too. I can do more than one thing at a time.

/johnny

179 posted on 10/17/2013 8:02:41 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JPG
I have five of those 100 Trillion dollar Zimbabwe bills (bought them on Ebay for about $5).

I thought they were really funny when I bought them. Now, not so much.

180 posted on 10/17/2013 8:09:42 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: jeffc

I believe it’s called stealth (sneaky) legislation. You know....the same kind we’ve had since Democrats took control in 2009 (you have to pass it to see what’s in it).

Pitchfork time YET?????


181 posted on 10/17/2013 8:35:35 AM PDT by XenaLee (The only good commie is a dead commie)
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To: Perdogg

You know, if this provision is really in the bill, I’m not sure what difference it would make with the current Congress. They have demonstrated repeatedly that they will NEVER refuse to lift the debt ceiling anyway, because they don’t want to be seen as “defaulting” on our debt.

And they obviously don’t want to do the heavy lifting of educating the public on the truth — which is that under the 14th Amendment, we are obligated to pay our creditors no matter what, and we have more than enough revenue coming into the treasury to do so.

Bottom line — we need to replace the GOP leadership and a good number of congressmen and senators before we will see any real results.


182 posted on 10/17/2013 8:49:34 AM PDT by lquist1
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To: beethovenfan

Never been so angry in all my life, as I am at this moment.


183 posted on 10/17/2013 9:27:27 AM PDT by WTFOVR (I find myself exclaiming that expression quite often these days!)
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To: Perdogg
The article contains this classic of beltwaythink:

“Such a plan would be obviously good for Democrats, as they can get the immediate gratification of not having to risk default in order to fully implement the Affordable Care Act. But it'd be good for Republicans too, who could not only avoid the stigma of blame for a default, but also presumably reap the ruling-party rewards in future Congresses and presidencies.”

Me Tooo! Me Tooooo! Me Tooooooooooo!

The gangrenous rot in Washington is making me retch and the republic is a stinking zombie corpse.

184 posted on 10/17/2013 9:31:06 AM PDT by mojito (Zero, our Nero.)
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To: Perdogg

WE WANT A REAL BUDGET!!!!! Where is the budget?


185 posted on 10/17/2013 10:21:21 AM PDT by Phillyred
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To: markomalley
You know, I posted that image back when the Blue Dogs were doing their Hamlet impersonation about supporting ObamaCare. My thread got pulled.


186 posted on 10/17/2013 10:34:59 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Is John's moustache long enough YET?)
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To: Perdogg

McConnel is a traitor. He is a complete traitor. The people of Kentucky will ride his ass on a rail. This is madness. This is unconstitutional. We are spiraling down the toilet in total chaos. Protect your self— protect your family. This is going to get very ugly.


187 posted on 10/17/2013 5:24:05 PM PDT by SADMILLIE (r)
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To: Perdogg

completely contradicts the spirt and letter of the Constitution, but this proposal fits the brand of leftism practiced by the GOPe like a glove.

i hope the house saw it and stripped it out...


188 posted on 10/17/2013 8:27:23 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: Perdogg

How is this Constitutional? Congress must approve all spending. Borrowing money is spending.

Plan: File suit against this provision as unConstitutional.


189 posted on 10/20/2013 6:52:08 AM PDT by Forgiven_Sinner (Seek you first the kingdom of God, and all things will be given to you.)
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