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A year after Romney loss, GOP woes run even deeper (o noes 4 woes)
Associated Press ^ | Oct 28, 2013 11:12 AM EDT | Charles Babington

Posted on 10/28/2013 8:37:22 AM PDT by Olog-hai

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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

A newer socialist brick builds upon an older socialist brick. I’m afraid I do not see the capitalist angle here.


51 posted on 10/28/2013 10:37:26 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
So then you are opposed to the state government requiring you to purchase automobile insurance?

I am against the Government, at any level, requiring me to purchase anything.

The Government is not your friend and DOES NOT have your best interests at heart.
52 posted on 10/28/2013 10:39:57 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
1) So socialism is okay with you at the State level, but not at the Federal level. Great. You accept the Socialist label.

2) RomneyCare increased taxes: "Technically the last day to sign up for insurance in compliance with that mandate was November 15, though as a practical measure Massachusetts residents actually had until January 1, 2008. Those without insurance as of that date will lose their personal exemption for the state income tax when they file this spring. In 2009, the penalty will increase to 50 percent of the cost of a standard insurance policy." ?(Emphasis Added) - http://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2008/lessons-fall-romneycare

3) RomneyCare caused increased spending: "The Massachusetts plan might not have achieved universal coverage, but it has cost taxpayers a great deal of money. Originally, the plan was projected to cost $1.8 billion this year. Now it is expected to exceed those estimates by $150 million. Over the next 10 years, projections suggest that Romney-Care will cost about $2 billion more than was budgeted. And the cost to Massachusetts taxpayers could be even higher because new federal rules could deprive the state of $100 million per year in Medicaid money that the state planned to use to help finance the program." (Emphasis Added) http://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2008/lessons-fall-romneycare

So, each of your arguments having been disproved, all we have is the equivalence of RomneyCare and 0bamaCare, one of which you approve because it had a (RINO) tag on it.

RomneyCare was a liberal policy predicated on GOVERNMENT FORCE, HIGHER TAXES and SPENDING. You approve of it. You're a liberal.

53 posted on 10/28/2013 10:42:54 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: SoConPubbie

I refuted his car insurance argument earlier with no rebuttal forthcoming. That’s a dead horse. He lost.


54 posted on 10/28/2013 10:43:39 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Yes those demographics are changing but rather than try to emulate Democrats pandering we need to appeal to minorities in ways that align with our principles stated policy aims. The GOP in Texas has done an excellent job of appealing to minorities especially Hispanics without selling their soul on immigration policy. They also have a sizable number of Hispanic GOP officeholders including Ted Cruz. The Florida GOP has been historically successful also though they have slipped in the past few years. The GOP hurt themselves the most with self inflicted wounds when they embrace the rhetoric and the premises of Democrats and attack each other suggesting latent racism etc and clouding the immigration issue so much that it looks like the GOP want open borders and are the ones looking for near slave labor to make them rich. So they end up taking a hit on both sides and winning very little.


55 posted on 10/28/2013 10:43:53 AM PDT by Maelstorm (Obamacare is your healthcare on stupid.)
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To: GeronL; Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
I cannot believe any FReeper would think the mandate is a good idea

I am flabber-gasted at the obtuseness, tunnel-vision, and what appears to be a stubborn refusal by this poster, on a Conservative website, to acknowledge the Socialistic nature of a policy that forces someone to subsidize someone else's health-care.
56 posted on 10/28/2013 10:44:29 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Reply to my #23 or STFU about car insurance.


57 posted on 10/28/2013 10:44:45 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: SZonian

OK. I see your point. And I respect it. Now. My question for you: An uninsured fellow walks into a hospital. Needs care. Perhaps having a heart attack or chest pains, could be anything. He receives treatment and care. He is later given the bill. He says he cannot or will not pay. Now what?


58 posted on 10/28/2013 10:45:22 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Uncle Miltie

I live in CA. One cannot function in CA without a car.


59 posted on 10/28/2013 10:47:50 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Just a moment and the Governor can MANDATE that you contract with the Public Transportation Utility and make illegal purchasing cars on the open market for personal use.

Just like Romney, making some kinds of economic transactions required, and others illegal.

Problem solved!


60 posted on 10/28/2013 10:49:35 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: SoConPubbie

Romneycare used Medicaid funds the state ALREADY receives to subsidize health insurance. They were going to get the money anyways.


61 posted on 10/28/2013 10:55:07 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

I don’t have auto insurance. I have no car.

Should I be shot by the fascist thugs because I am not paying in?

ObamaCare and RomneyCare are not about getting people insured, you might have noticed that premiums skyrocketed - this is because it is a wealth redistribution scheme and some people will be paying the premiums for others.

This is socialism. Even if it is done at a state level.


62 posted on 10/28/2013 10:55:08 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

OK. You don’t drive. You don’t need auto insurance. Fine.

But we have to make sure that if you don’t have health coverage and you get sick and go to the hospital that you won’t walk away from that bill.


63 posted on 10/28/2013 10:57:28 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

lol

That shouldn’t be the governments business. The federal government is $17 trillion in debt and it thinks it should be charged with that? lol


64 posted on 10/28/2013 11:02:07 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

That’s what civil court is for...the man entered into an arrangement with the hospital, they treat his ailment, he pays them. If he fails to honor his part of that agreement, well fellow, we’ll see you in court.

How does having the government involved in a private transaction help anyone involved? Simple, it doesn’t.


65 posted on 10/28/2013 11:10:10 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Stop making arguments that RomneyCare was not a budget buster until you reply to the Cato information posted above. Your say-so doesn’t make it true in the face of reality.


66 posted on 10/28/2013 11:12:15 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Who is “we” Kimosabe?

You and your statist bureaucrat buddies?

Hospitals should be free to contract as they see fit.


67 posted on 10/28/2013 11:13:45 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: GeronL

I totally agree. Health insurance is NOT a federal responsibility. But the states can regulate health insurance and they can regulate automobile insurance.


68 posted on 10/28/2013 11:13:54 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Uncle Miltie

Hospitals are not free to contract as they see fit. They cannot turn people away.


69 posted on 10/28/2013 11:17:12 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Be sure to send our love to Mitt, Juan and Linda at your next RINO conclave.


70 posted on 10/28/2013 11:17:57 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
People do NOT have the right to walk into a hospital, receive care and treatment and leave the taxpayers stuck with the bill,

unless they speak Spanish and are in the country illegally. There - fixed it for you.

71 posted on 10/28/2013 11:18:43 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

they can regulate it, but they cannot force me to buy things I don’t want


72 posted on 10/28/2013 11:18:54 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

But they could if Government weren’t in their business in the first place.

So you would patch a failure of government with more government.

Nice. Socialist.


73 posted on 10/28/2013 11:19:13 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: SZonian

Yo cannot put debtors in prison. If you could, half the college students in this country would now be in the slammer.


74 posted on 10/28/2013 11:19:14 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: jdege

Keep in mind that the media are now unashamed agents of the Democratic Party, and that all policy disputes will be cast as disagreements between “rational” Democrats and “extremist” Republicans. And even indisputable facts will not get in their way. For example, when the recent government shutdown was looming, the Seattle Times editorialized that it was time for Republicans to break ranks and show courage, to quit acting as a monolithic block-vote. But that is what the DEMOCRATS were doing - acting as a block vote - whereas the Republicans were divided and squabbling.


75 posted on 10/28/2013 11:19:53 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Free markets can correct for bad debts.

Your repeatedly preferred socialists positions cannot.


76 posted on 10/28/2013 11:20:44 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
"As I understand the Constitution, states are pretty much free to do whatever they want, unless it is specifically prohibited by the Constitution. States regulate issues such as marriage, abortion, automobile because they are not covered by the Constitution. States even have the power and authority to set up an official state religion (the federal government cannot of course) if they so wanted to."

That is correct. Even Robert Bork conceded that the Constitution does not prohibit the states from passing bad laws, and the Constitutional limits on the states are relatively few.
77 posted on 10/28/2013 11:22:45 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Uncle Miltie

I hate socialism. But the law states hospitals cannot turn away anyone. I do not favor more government or higher taxes. Romneycare did not raise taxes. Romneycare did not increase new spending. Romneycare rediverted funds already allocated to the state from Medicaid.


78 posted on 10/28/2013 11:24:10 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Who said anything about prison? Civil court, not criminal court...

Liens, garnishments, etc. to recoup the payments owed...rightfully owed to the provider of said services.

It’s quite simple, if you don’t like the arrangement, don’t enter into it. Find another provider more to your liking.


79 posted on 10/28/2013 11:26:16 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Steve_Seattle

Exactly. And if Romneycare proved to be bad and unpopular and workable tthe voters in that state could repeal it in the next election. Bad laws get passed. Bad laws can get repealed. Much easier on the state level.


80 posted on 10/28/2013 11:26:54 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Fail.

You did not refute Cato’s analysis in my #53.

Repeating socialist / RINO talking points does not make an argument true.


81 posted on 10/28/2013 11:34:37 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

I believe they do imprison men who have debts owed to females.


82 posted on 10/28/2013 11:35:26 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Democrats-"a party that since antebellum times has been bent on the dishonoring of humanity.)
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To: Uncle Miltie
"Romney(Care) couldn't attack 0bamaCare because he was its intellectual father."

It is disappointing to see Freepers using Dem talking points. Romneycare was 70 pages, Obamacare is - depending on which source you believe - either 890, 906, 2,000, or 2,700 pages, and the accompanying regulations stretched it to about 20,000 pages. So they are NOT the same, or anything close to the same. Moreover, Romneycare applied to only one state, not the entire country.
83 posted on 10/28/2013 11:37:35 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Olog-hai
"widely seen as a major Republican embarrassment"

That is, widely presented by the pro-Democratic press as a Republican embarrassment.
84 posted on 10/28/2013 11:39:14 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Steve_Seattle
"Moreover, Romneycare applied to only one state, not the entire country."

Dude. I used to think so highly of you. You're really going with the "Socialism at the State level is okay" argument?

85 posted on 10/28/2013 11:42:15 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Steve_Seattle

I proved it:

Romneycare Advisers Went to WH to be Obamacare Advisers

By W. James Antle, III on 10.12.11 @ 9:26AM

Records show that Mitt Romney aides met a dozen times with the White House to discuss health care reform, according to reports that are sure to refocus attention on the similarities between Obamacare and Romneycare. The Massachusetts health care plan Romney signed into law was an inspiration for the federal legislation, signed by Barack Obama, that the Republican frontrunner has pledged to have repealed.

http://spectator.org/blog/2011/10/12/romneycare-advisers-went-to-wh


86 posted on 10/28/2013 11:43:35 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Steve_Seattle

Lawrence O’Donnell, MSNBC host: “Alright, come on. Come clean. You were in the room with President Obama discussing healthcare reform and you did in fact work with the Romney administration in Massachusetts. Come on Professor, you’ve got to tell us the truth.”

Jonathan Gruber, MIT professor: “The truth is that the Affordable Care Act is essentially based on what we accomplished in Massachusetts. It’s the same basic structure applied nationally. John McDonough, one of the other advisers,who work in both Massachusetts and advised the White House said ‘it’s the Massachusetts with three more zeros.’ And that’s basically a good description of what the federal bill did.”

Gruber says Massachusetts received some federal funding for Romney’s healthcare reform, meaning all U.S. taxpayers chipped in to fund RomneyCare.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/12/romney_healthcare_adviser_obamacare_based_off_romneycare.html


87 posted on 10/28/2013 11:45:45 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
"Romneycare did not raise taxes."

Because they pre-stole the money from the Federal Taxpayers:

"Did Romneycare raise taxes? No, but the state didn’t need to. It covered the cost of reform with larger payments that it negotiated from the federal government for its Medicaid program."

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/fieldclinic/Obamacare-vs-Romneycare-Is-there-a-difference.html#krldCjqX022ZmAo6.99

88 posted on 10/28/2013 11:49:35 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: SZonian
"Apples and kumquats comparison...

Auto insurance is optional, based on whether or not you choose to operate a motor vehicle. There is no law MANDATING that you MUST operate a motor vehicle, thus requiring vehicle insurance.

Nice try, but the vast majority of adults drive trucks, automobiles, or motorcycles and do not consider it "optional" even if in your imaginary world it is technically optional. Motor vehicles are absolutely essential for modern commerce and to call them "optional" is playing with words. In your view, virtually any mandatory law - building codes, zoning regulations, all fees and taxes - is equivalent to "socialism."
89 posted on 10/28/2013 11:50:56 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Uncle Miltie
"Reply to my #23 or STFU about car insurance."

Get over yourself and your bullying.
90 posted on 10/28/2013 11:52:57 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Uncle Miltie

As I said, you are just citing MSNBC talking points and a liberal MIT professor. Romney HIMSELF pointed out the huge differences between his law and Obamacare, and the length of the respective laws proves that they are vastly different. And this is not to say that I support Romneycare - I’ve read that it too has all sorts of issues and problems, financial and otherwise. My only point is that it is vastly different from Obamacare.


91 posted on 10/28/2013 11:59:17 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Uncle Miltie

Ideally, then I do agree. Most of the legislation passed since the New Deal and Great Socirty should be repealed. You won’t get an argument out of me on that point. I think Romney was simply working within the system. His state does get Medicaid dollars. And hospitals are not allowed to turn away anyone. I think he was simply working within that framework. Rather than simply giving people Medicaid, he though it would be better to make them obtain private insurance.


92 posted on 10/28/2013 12:01:33 PM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Steve_Seattle

The person used auto vs. health insurance as his argument, not me. The last paragraph in your comment are your words, not mine.

I don’t HAVE to drive and along with that comes all manner of perceived “inconveniences”. So be it...again, I (me personally) DON’T HAVE TO DRIVE. I can choose alternative methods to get along/around.

Thus, auto insurance is not compulsory or mandatory for me to get along in life. If I CHOOSE to engage in behavior that requires licensing or following legislation of some sort, then so be it, I’m under the government’s thumb.

But for simply being born, existing in the USA, we are now FORCED to purchase insurance.

I stand by my original premise/response, one that is supported by numerous other FReepers and the simple fact that, in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I consider myself a free man, a citizen, not a subject.


93 posted on 10/28/2013 12:01:39 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Steve_Seattle

Romney’s “liberal MIT professor”


94 posted on 10/28/2013 12:09:43 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Steve_Seattle

Oh noes! I better get myself to an anti-bullying campaign because another poster repeatedly refuses to refute my point, and keeps making the same disproven point.


95 posted on 10/28/2013 12:11:19 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Steve_Seattle
"Romney HIMSELF pointed out the huge differences between his law and Obamacare"

Well there's an unbiased unimpeachable source.

96 posted on 10/28/2013 12:14:00 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Uncle Miltie

At this point, I’m just going to reflect on the nature of the argument.

Here at FR we have people who justify socialism because it came from a guy with an (R) behind his name.

How in the world can conservatism ever win with allies like this?


97 posted on 10/28/2013 12:16:25 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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To: Olog-hai
Let's correct something, it's not "business-oriented Republicans", it's government-oriented businesses, mostly attached to the financial services industries, the Fed and government control Republicans. Crony Capitalists within the GOP want to elect Republicans to manipulate the government for their benefit.

More "ideological Republicans" are to dumbies who believe in the US Constitution and Rule of Law. How quaint.

98 posted on 10/28/2013 12:35:11 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (You can have a free country or government schools. Choose one.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

We have anti-bullying campaigns on FR now? What won’t the GOP-e stoop to, I wonder.


99 posted on 10/28/2013 12:38:39 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Uncle Miltie

Not that I trust Robert Reich for much of anything, but today he partially made the case I’ve been pointing out. Socialism constructed by Republicans makes the case the Democrats want:

Don’t Like Obamacare? It Was the Republicans’ Idea, Says Liberal Democrat

October 28, 2013 - 10:12 AM

By Susan Jones

Subscribe to Susan Jones RSS

Follow Susan Jones on Twitter

89 38

Robert Reich
Robert Reich served as Labor Secretary for President Bill Clinton. (AP File Photo)
(CNSNews.com) - Not a single Republican voted for the Democrats’ Affordable Care Act, but one liberal Democrat is nevertheless blaming Republicans for the system that’s debuted to so much criticism.

“While Republicans plot new ways to sabotage the Affordable Care Act, it’s easy to forget that for years they’ve been arguing that any comprehensive health insurance system be designed exactly like the one that officially began October 1st, glitches and all,” said Robert Reich, who served as President Bill Clinton’s Labor Secretary.

Reich says Democrats should have insisted on a single-payer system because it would have been “cheaper, simpler, and more popular.”

In a blog at The Huffington Post website, Reich wrote that Republicans have long argued for a health care system based on private insurance and paid for with subsidies and a requirement that the young and healthy people sign up. Democrats, he says, wanted to model health care reform on Social Security and Medicare, and fund it through the payroll tax.

Reich says President Richard Nixon in 1974, “proposed, in essence, today’s Affordable Care Act.” Thirty years later, then-Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, another Republican, “made Nixon’s plan the law in Massachusetts.”

Reich adds: “When today’s Republicans rage against the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act, it’s useful to recall this was their idea as well,” as proposed in 1989 by Stuart M. Butler of the Heritage Foundation.

“Now that the essential Republican plan for healthcare is being implemented nationally, health insurance companies are jubilant,” Reich said, because they see opportunities for higher profits and expanded growth.

“So why are today’s Republicans so upset with an Act they designed and their patrons adore? Because it’s the signature achievement of the Obama administration,” he says.

Reich’s blog is entitled, “The Democrat’s Version of Health Insurance Would Have Been Cheaper, Simpler, and More Popular (So Why Did We Enact the Republican Version and Why Are They So Upset?)”

Reich, now a professor of public policy at the University of California at Berkeley, advocates a single-payer health insurance system, such as “Medicare for all.”
..- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/dont-obamacare-it-was-republicans-idea-says-liberal-democrat#sthash.l5J8mEie.dpuf


100 posted on 10/28/2013 12:39:22 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie ( "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it." - California Girl)
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