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The Devil's New World Religion
Renew America ^ | Nov. 1, 2013 | Linda Kimball

Posted on 11/02/2013 8:38:54 AM PDT by spirited irish

With over 500 pages and 1,200 footnotes, Ted Flynn’s book, “Hope of the Wicked: the Master Plan to Rule the World,” details many of the agendas of the global ‘elite’ community. With several thousand quotes it uses the words of prime ministers, secretaries of treasury, secretaries of state, philanthropists and global business leaders to describe their NWO vision and their plans to bring it about as well as the convergence, on a global basis, of multinational corporations, foundations and the political and sociological instruments that would form a one-world government designed to bring about a New World Order.

Flynn writes that there is a confluence of events pointing to major changes that for many years have been coming to the world and they appear to be coming toward us more quickly now. Flynn argues that an 1846 heavenly apparition, a prophecy delivered by the Blessed Virgin Mary to two peasant children and approved by the Catholic Church is a stark and terrible summary of the major changes that have been coming to the world in general but the West and America in particular:

“All the civil governments will have one and the same plan, which will be to abolish and do away with every religious principle, to make way for materialism, atheism, spiritualism and vice of all kinds….The mountains and all Nature will tremble in terror, for the disorders and crimes of men have pierced the vault of the heavens…The righteous will suffer greatly. Their prayers, their penances and their tears will rise up to Heaven and all of God’s people will beg for forgiveness and mercy…And then Jesus Christ, in an act of His justice and His great mercy will command His Angels to have all His enemies put to death….and the persecutors of the Church of Jesus Christ and all those given over to sin will perish…” (p. 445)

In another apparition approved by the Church, the Blessed Virgin Mary warned of the “annihilation of nations.” (ibid, p. 445)

Materialism, Atheism, Communism, & Annihilation of Nations and People

Friedrich Engels (1820-1895), a 19th century German political philosopher figures prominently in Karl Marx’s life. Beginning in 1844, Engels and Marx, a God-hating materialist, collaborated closely in the foundation of modern Communism. By 1848 they had produced The Communist Manifesto and similar works.

The tragedy of Engels is that before joining forces with Marx he had been a faithful Christian. After meeting Marx for the first time he described him as a monster subjected to devils. Marx does not,

“…walk or run, he jumps on his heels full of anger…He stretches his arms far away in the air; the wicked fist is clenched, he rages without ceasing, as if ten thousand devils had caught him by the hair.” (Marx & Satan, Richard Wurmbrand, p. 36)

Engels was very well aware of the dangers of entangling himself with devilish sons of perdition like Marx. In his book, “Schelling, Philosopher in Christ,” he warns that a devilish spirit has entered into a great part of mankind in the heart of Christendom and now there are only two kinds of men, Christians and anti-Christians:

“Since the terrible French Revolution, an entirely new, devilish spirit has entered into a great part of mankind, and godlessness lifts its daring head in such an unashamed and subtle manner that you would think the prophecies of Scripture are fulfilled (Matthew 24:11)..And St. Paul says in II Thes. 2:3: That man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is God, or that is worshipped…The coming of the Wicked is after the working of Satan….(therefore we must have) nothing to do any more with indifference or coldness toward the Lord (for as of now) we have only…Christians and anti-Christians….We see the false prophets among us…They travel throughout Germany and wish to intrude everywhere; they teach their Satanic teachings in the market-places and bear the flag of the Devil from one town to another, seducing the poor youth, in order to throw them in the deepest abyss of hell and death.” (ibid, p. 40)

The devilish fleshy spirit responsible for converting Engels to godless Communism was Moses Hess, the same man who had previously converted Marx. After meeting Engels in Cologne Hess wrote:

“He parted from me as an overzealous Communist. This is how I produce ravages…” (ibid, p. 43)

The spiritual counter-conversion of Engels was striking and hideous. Like Marx, he no longer cared about the destruction of millions of people on behalf of the Revolution.

A bloodless Marx writes of the coming genocide of millions of men, women, and children:

“A silent, unavoidable revolution is taking place in society, a revolution that cares as little about the human lives it destroys as an earthquake cares about the houses it ravages. Classes and races…too weak to dominate the new conditions of existence will be defeated.” (ibid, p. 42)

In a similar vein, a cold-hearted Engels speaks of the coming annihilation of millions of Christians, Jews, and other peoples and nations:

“The next world war will make whole reactionary peoples disappear from the face of the earth. This, too, is progress. Obviously this cannot be fulfilled without crushing some delicate national flower. But without violence and without pitilessness nothing can be obtained in history.” (p. 43)

The Revolution

The Revolution is a movement of spirit having its taproot and energy in the devil, the spirit of hate, murder, atheism, apostasy, and ‘this world only’ naturalism, materialism, pantheism, and spiritualism.

The Revolution is war against the supernatural Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which in the words of Marx’s anarchist comrade Bakunin, are the “cursed and fatal principle of authority.”

The sentiment of the Revolution is satanic pride:

"….which spurns subjection to any master whatever, whether of divine or human origin." (Bakunin, Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age, Fr. Seraphim Rose, p. 63)

The nature of the Revolution is the antithesis of authentic Christian faith. Whereas Christian faith is joy, patience, love, truth, humbleness, perseverance, submission in all things to the Will of God and blessed eternal life in Paradise (earth perfected), the Satanic counterfeit is full of hatred, rebelliousness, burning envy and covetousness against man and God, ingratitude, mockery, doubts, lies, revulsion, blasphemy, thoughts of murder and eternal life in Hell.

Fueled by monstrously inflated pride and dissatisfaction with self, the world, society, and God the Father Almighty, it devotes its' infernal energy toward "change," or as Marx put it, toward the wholesale destruction of the Christian-based Old Order and the establishment of a religiously pantheist, totalitarian world order because:

"The idea of God is the keynote of a perverted civilization. It must be destroyed." (Karl Marx, Marx and Satan, p. 59)

The New World Religion

“(The UN is) a weird and diabolical convergence of New Age mysticism, pantheism, aboriginal animism, Communism, socialism, Luciferian occultism, apostate Christianity, Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism.” (The New World Religion: Teaching God’s Children to Worship ‘Divine Nature.’ William Jasper, 2002)

The Revolution, of which the U.N., Lucis Trust (formerly Lucifer Publishing), the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, the Temple of Understanding and Baca Grande (Colorado based New Age Vatican City) are integral components, intends the complete overturning of Biblical moral and spiritual values enjoyed by Western and American civilization for over a thousand years. As part of this goal, the Bible must be reinterpreted in terms of evolutionary pantheism, man must be fundamentally remade by eradication of every vestige of Imago Dei from his inner being, and Christian leadership reduced to a non-factor. Flynn writes that this has largely been accomplished,

“…by placing their own leaders in place where they exert tremendous influence. Much of this program of revolution was confirmed by Franklin D. Roosevelt in his book, ‘Our Way’ (which) summed up, the spiritual and immoral goals of world revolution (and how they) are being achieved, and nowhere more so than in the United States.” (Flynn, p. 361)

Primary goals are:

a. Destruction of the Judao-Christian-based foundation of Western and American civilization;

b. Dissolution of legal government;

c. Destruction of sovereignty and patriotism;

d. Demoralizing, atheitizing and bringing the people of the United States into slavery via liberated sin nature and penury via graduated income taxes, property taxes, inheritance taxes, sales taxes, a massive welfare state and now socialized healthcare;

e. The abolition of God-given right to life via reproductive rights (abortion) and euthanasia and of private property via onerous building codes, zoning regulations and restrictions and by taxing property out of existence and targeting inheritance with bigger and bigger taxes;

f. Destruction of the traditional monogamous family unit via divorce, co-habitation, alternative lifestyles, abortion, pornography, hedonism and homosexuality

Before the top-down spiritually pantheist world order dominated by an occult ‘elite’ can come into existence, there must be a politically correct philosophy of ‘new’ thought and a philosophy of pantheist-based natural religion and natural science to usher in the coming political, social, legal and educational aspects of the new order since New Age evolutionary pantheism is a politically communist, ecologically ‘sustainable,’ sexually androgynous way of living.

In her two books on New Age evolutionary pantheism, ‘The Hidden Rainbow,’ and ‘A Planned Deception,’ Constance Cumbey writes that these goals have largely been accomplished:

“The New Age Movement is a religion complete with its own Bibles, prayers and mantras, Vatican City/Jerusalem equivalents, priests and gurus, born again experiences (they call it ‘rebirthing’), spiritual laws and commandments, psychics and prophets and nearly every other indicia of a religion.” (Flynn, p. 361)

According to Cumbey, the Plan for the new order includes the installation of a New Age messiah, implementation of a New Age totalitarian government and new world religion under Maitreya. As well, there are plans to implement a universal identification system, universal credit system, universal tax, universal draft, and a world food and water authority that will control all of the world’s food and water supplies. To ensure that all people worship the New Age messiah, authentic Christianity and faithful Judaism will be completely stamped out along with all faithful Christians and Jews.

Toward this end, the evil spirit energizing and directing the Revolution intends to fully possess the Christian faith and refashion it completely. In furtherance of his goal, the devil has audaciously declared that the supernatural Holy God the Father Almighty has been isolated in His transcendence and is therefore dead, so though the notion of God is retained, the devil proposes a functionless God that perhaps serves to ignite the Big Bang and set evolution in motion.

According to the devil, the Revolution is now moving with great force and speed across America nearly unopposed and will not stop until every vestige of faith in the supernatural God has been obliterated in every heart. Every man, woman, and child will experience a counter-conversion---a Satanic Initiation in the words of New Age insider David Spangler---to a ‘new’ pantheist spiritualism dressed in Christian symbols and terminology, an anti-gospel preached by anti-saints from the void who will assure men of their salvation though they will find only the leering face of the devil.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: communism; evolution; occult; pantheism
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1 posted on 11/02/2013 8:38:54 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: betty boop; YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; metmom; HiTech RedNeck; hosepipe

ping


2 posted on 11/02/2013 8:40:11 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

Since the time of the Romans and probably even earlier One World Empires have been the dream of megalomaniacs.


3 posted on 11/02/2013 8:41:10 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: spirited irish

Tragedy and Hope by Quigley is also an interesting read, 1300 pages.


4 posted on 11/02/2013 8:41:52 AM PDT by seeker41 (take your country back by whatever means necessary & remove the son of a kenyan mooslimb)
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To: spirited irish

I would like to suggest something that I would encourage others to check out via scripture, though I believe it is true.

The false religion will be based on pride. It will admire itself and live on its self admiration.

The Christian faith will be based on love. It receives gifts gratefully from the Lord and treats them as such (or in our yet incomplete salvation, we attempt to treat them that way, which God still honors and will correct as needed).


5 posted on 11/02/2013 8:45:40 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: spirited irish
Here's what they worship:


6 posted on 11/02/2013 8:47:44 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Who but a TYRANT shoves down another man's throat what he has exempted himself from?)
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To: spirited irish

Anyhow, that divide (pride vs. love) seems to me the most stark difference between the phony and the real faith when they come head to head like this. Right now phony faiths haven’t often managed to ape full-on Christianity very well. Satan’s current bonds are not loosed enough to permit this. Still, Christianity will always outclass phony faiths. Genuine love for God won’t be able to be hidden. People with that love may err sometimes, but God will correct those errors with His grace.


7 posted on 11/02/2013 8:51:52 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: spirited irish

Just what I needed to cheer me up this morning.


8 posted on 11/02/2013 8:56:22 AM PDT by Excellence (All your database are belong to us.)
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To: spirited irish
Thanx ... I intend to get the book.

The publishing date is 2002 ... is there any inkling of obama in that book?

9 posted on 11/02/2013 8:59:39 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: spirited irish

I actually think that they want two classes of people: Atheists and Muslims. Atheists will be a minority (5-10%), but will take care of the science, technology and management. Muslims will make up the general population of workers and consumers.

In the eyes of the Elites, the latter is preferable to any other religion because they will do whatever the Mullahs tell them to do. If a Mullah can convince someone to be a suicide bomber for Allah, convincing them to pay higher taxes should be a piece of cake.


10 posted on 11/02/2013 9:00:09 AM PDT by rbg81
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To: spirited irish

ping


11 posted on 11/02/2013 9:01:53 AM PDT by gattaca ("If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain)
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To: spirited irish
the Satanic counterfeit is full of hatred, rebelliousness, burning envy and covetousness against man and God, ingratitude, mockery, doubts, lies, revulsion, blasphemy, thoughts of murder...

The left hasn't changed an iota.

12 posted on 11/02/2013 9:05:15 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Excellence; spirited irish

The apparition is approved. The prophecies have since been tampered with.

REad sources very carefully

Always be careful of misinformation regarding the Catholic church, especially because the true account will always, always, be available.

The enemy hates and fears the Blessed Mother, of course, and will distract as much as possible.

Any apparition should bring faith, hope and love, not dread and fear. And there are Many apparitions that have not been approved by the Vatican, and I find it always good to ignore them.

It’s really a case of don’t believe everything you read.

http://www.arcaneknowledge.org/catholic/lasalette.htm

“...Some of this misinformation was propagated by Melanie herself in her later years, most infamously in an 1879 tract that was placed on the Index of Prohibited Books, yet still enjoys popularity among traditionalist publishers misled by the imprimatur of the bishop of Lecce. Those who have only casual knowledge of the story of La Salette may easily mistake this extravagantly embellished apocalyptic narrative as the true content of the revelation,...

...To correct these common misunderstandings of the message of La Salette, it is essential to return to the original accounts,


13 posted on 11/02/2013 9:16:28 AM PDT by stanne
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To: Excellence; knarf; spirited irish

‘A Woman Clothed With the Sun’ is a good account of the approved apparitions.

Always look on the pub. page for the:

Imprimatur

and the

Nihil Obstat

Otherwise it’s a waste of time and effort (and fear) as anyone can make anything up even with the best intentions.


14 posted on 11/02/2013 9:23:30 AM PDT by stanne
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To: Don Corleone

Lao Tzu wrote about crazies wanting to rule the world 2500 years ago. He was making the point that they never succeed.

Nothing changes. The 1%’ers are still trying.


15 posted on 11/02/2013 9:28:55 AM PDT by warchild9
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To: stanne

Thanx ... saved twenny bucks


16 posted on 11/02/2013 9:32:38 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: knarf

Any one can say anything about the church and they can make it look authentic. It took me a while to find something authentic about that apparition, and I know what I’m looking for.

Save yourself some trouble if you ever want to read about the church, or something apparently approved by the church go to a catholic bookstore and even then look for approval of the tome by a priest, bishop, cardinal or Pontiff:

Imprimatur
Nihil Obstat, as I said earlier

http://www.mycatholicstore.com/


17 posted on 11/02/2013 9:47:15 AM PDT by stanne
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To: spirited irish

I guess they forgot about the Tower of Babel


18 posted on 11/02/2013 9:59:37 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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Support Free Republic.
Please Donate today!


19 posted on 11/02/2013 10:07:29 AM PDT by RedMDer (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)
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To: spirited irish

Thanks for the BEEP!


20 posted on 11/02/2013 10:31:01 AM PDT by YHAOS
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“that divide (pride vs. love) seems to me the most stark difference between the phony and the real faith....”

Spirited: Pride vs. love equates to preference for self over brethren and God against which the self-centered soul covets. Self-centeredness denotes an inward-turned, materialized soul; a cistern without living water. Where self-centeredness reigns, so too does resentment and hatred of ‘other.’ Augustine taught that hatred will eventually burn away the seeds of love placed by God in every soul.

In this light we can see why the devil’s refashioned Christianity will be a loveless religion.


21 posted on 11/02/2013 11:44:06 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: knarf; stanne

Thanx ... saved twenny bucks

Spirited: A questionable prophecy does not invalidate Flynn’s impeccably researched work.


22 posted on 11/02/2013 11:50:44 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish
Practically everything described in this article is in keeping with the prophesied end time events that were revealed to the Apostle John by Jesus Christ 19 centuries ago on the Mediterranean Isle of Patmos and recorded in the divinely inspired book of the Apocalypse. Most of the conditions that were hoped for and planned for by those 19th century collectivist radicals will be coming to pagan America in the near future. All of these cleverly disguised evils will be willingly accepted as necessary changes in government, the economy, and society in general by virtually everyone except those relatively few people who have been born into the eternal Kingdom of God by belief in and acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

I don't claim to know what devious role that Obama, and probably his successors as well, will play in the soon to come seven year period known to bible believing Christians as the Great Tribulation. But even so, I'm convinced that Obama's presidency is at the very least a relatively mild foretaste of the far worse horrors that are yet to come to the perverse, pleasure-mad, God-rejecting majority of Americans and most other people of this present day "civilized" world.

23 posted on 11/02/2013 12:08:55 PM PDT by epow (My God died to pay the penalty for my sins, what's your god ever done for you?)
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To: spirited irish

It’s interesting, you know, I’ll bet that people will read his tome, think every word is true, and cite Catholic prophesy that isn’t there but will never consider looking at the Vatican report of the apparition and will not even then consider what the Blessed Mother DID say, and DID warn, according to the Vatican, which I’ve included below. And I’ll bet Flynn does not include it.

To quit working and shopping on sundays:

‘The time of God’s wrath has arrived!

If, when you say to the people what I have said to you so far, and what I will still ask you to say, if, after that, they do not convert, (if they do not do penance, and they do not cease working on Sunday, and if they continue to blaspheme the Holy Name of God), in a word, if the face of the earth does not change, God will be avenged against the people ungrateful and slave of the demon.’


24 posted on 11/02/2013 12:19:00 PM PDT by stanne
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To: spirited irish

I don’t think its impeccably researched if it takes post-approval statements from the witness and presents them as approved.

No


25 posted on 11/02/2013 12:34:47 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

“..And I’ll bet Flynn does not include it.”

Spirited: I have a copy of Flynn’s impeccably researched tome, and you are wrong; he does include it.

Your anger and wholesale condemnation of Flynn is unseemly and uncharitable. If in the entirety of your life you have never misspoke, never made a mistake, never erred in any way, then you may cast the first stone upon Flynn because unlike the rest of us you are perfect.


26 posted on 11/02/2013 1:29:20 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: epow

“Practically everything described in this article is in keeping with the prophesied end time events that were revealed to the Apostle John by Jesus Christ 19 centuries ago “

Spirited: It’s also in keeping with the prophetic vision of Fyodor Dostoevsky. Well before Marxist Communists seized control of Russia and murdered in excess of 60,000,000 people, in 1879, desperately concerned for the future of Russia and its’ people, Dostoevsky declared,

“a second tower of Babel stands in the place of the high ideals created by Christ. The sublime Christian view of human nature sinks down to the view of an animal herd and, under the banner of social love, shows entirely unconcealed its contempt for mankind.” (Political Apocalypse: A Study of Dostoevsky’s Grand Inquisitor, Ellis Sandoz)

Atheism, philosophically materialist Darwinism, and the inhumane values of scientific socialism, having only contempt for God and man, committed catastrophic crimes against Russians, as foreseen by Dostoevsky.


27 posted on 11/02/2013 1:44:31 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

If you read the discouragement in the responses then you’ll realize they use prophesy to spread dread and use the church, bible and or Mary to do it

And I’m against it


28 posted on 11/02/2013 2:50:27 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

Your stated position is not a license to cast stones upon Flynn, to call into question his integrity. What you did was wrong.


29 posted on 11/02/2013 3:07:34 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

C. S. Lewis also spoke of pride as enmity.

Anyhow, actual saved Christians with a spiritual “nose” for love will be able to smell out the difference. They need to be careful not to go off with a hair trigger judgment, as even saved Christians still sometimes sin in this mortal coil, but the larger thrust of a Christian life will be love. Even if they carry out the love in a mistaken manner, it will still be love.


30 posted on 11/02/2013 3:27:13 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: spirited irish; stanne

Hey both of you could stand to not “devour” one another.

While not the best Christian in the book, I’m beginning to get an inkling about this stuff.

I think the Roman Catholic church does have problems. It does and has long done with respect to Christianity what we would in modern terms call “micromanage.”

Well intended, and thus not fatal to faith, but it creates genuine difficulties.


31 posted on 11/02/2013 3:30:54 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

What does the church micromanage?


32 posted on 11/02/2013 3:41:46 PM PDT by stanne
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To: spirited irish

I said not a thing about his integrity


33 posted on 11/02/2013 3:57:23 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

A lot.


34 posted on 11/02/2013 4:07:12 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stanne

[A lot.]

The current pope, Francis, is in fact beginning to chip at this problem. He did so when he emphasized the very evangelical doctrine of the salvation provided by Christ over “rules” that are hindering people’s spiritual lives.

Men, who (and I won’t mince words) got proud at times, thought they could trap the gospel in a document, other than the agreed original Holy Scriptures. They can’t! The gospel is free. The communications of Christian preachers are supposed to be addressed to the situation and time, just as the Holy Ghost would, not added to a conglomeration of written, blanket ipse dixits.

It’s a problem in evangelical congregations too, but less so because of the strong dynamic gospel ethic of most evangelical congregations. Typically the strongest evangelical congregations will have the briefest written statements of faith, usually reflecting an old historic creed.


35 posted on 11/02/2013 4:13:35 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Name one item The question was not answered


36 posted on 11/02/2013 4:14:57 PM PDT by stanne
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To: spirited irish; TNMountainMan; alphadog; infool7; Heart-Rest; HoosierDammit; red irish; fastrock; ..
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

37 posted on 11/02/2013 4:17:20 PM PDT by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: stanne

You are acting mighty small minded, pedantic, to say that. How about what your Pope was talking about, for starters?


38 posted on 11/02/2013 4:17:43 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: spirited irish

.


39 posted on 11/02/2013 4:52:08 PM PDT by dubyagee ("I can't complain, but sometimes I still do.")
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To: HiTech RedNeck

What does the church micromanage? That was the accusation


40 posted on 11/02/2013 5:28:34 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

Your pope already began to tell you. Don’t you want to listen to your pope?


41 posted on 11/02/2013 5:58:48 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

If one wants to say that the Church micromanages, one can point to exactly how.

Just one example.


42 posted on 11/02/2013 6:16:31 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

Are you truly interested in this? Maybe you should start with what your pope said.


43 posted on 11/02/2013 6:25:11 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stanne

And let me make it plain why I ask.

Are you interested in knowing you can have less micromanagement in your personal Christian life? Or are you just interested in defending your organization’s warts because after all they’re your warts right or wrong?


44 posted on 11/02/2013 6:30:44 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I’m not defending. Anything. The accusation was that the church micromanaged

The question is, what does it micromanage?


45 posted on 11/02/2013 8:32:40 PM PDT by stanne
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To: stanne

That’s like asking a fish where the water is, almost.

Anybody who tried to live up to just the official catechism as it exists would have his or her hands full. And it’s not true you can keep losing and gaining your salvations, you read the bible grimly.


46 posted on 11/02/2013 8:41:55 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stanne

I don’t mean everything in there is bad, by the way. There’s some stuff that a lot of evangelicals would do well to know. But there’s also so much moderation by men by policy when there should be dynamic control by the Holy Spirit. God works through all that stuff but it isn’t the free gospel.


47 posted on 11/02/2013 8:44:38 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stanne

In general, “it’s a sin to ____” statements, when not directly backed up by scripture, require scrutiny. Some make spiritual sense; some are gratuitous attacks on the free gospel.


48 posted on 11/02/2013 8:47:29 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stanne

Because the gospel statements are not given to mankind in the form of “it’s a sin to ____” but “it is righteousness to ____”. Righteousness is the thing that is free and that is where gospel power is.


49 posted on 11/02/2013 8:49:20 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stanne

Very interesting link, thanks.


50 posted on 11/02/2013 9:13:51 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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