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Bush (Iraq War) Vs. Obama (Obamacare): Who 'Lied'?
Townhall.com ^ | November 7, 2013 | Larry Elder

Posted on 11/07/2013 6:21:01 AM PST by Kaslin

When the weapons hunters failed to find stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so began one of the greatest slanders on a president in history: "Bush lied, people died."

Never mind that, in building the case for war in Iraq, President George W. Bush relied on the unanimous opinion of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies.

Never mind that the bipartisan Robb-Silberman commission examined the intelligence on which Bush relied, and unanimously found that "the Intelligence Community did not make or change any analytic judgments in response to political pressure. ... We conclude that it was the paucity of intelligence and poor analytical tradecraft, rather than political pressure, that produced the inaccurate pre-war intelligence assessments."

Never mind that Bush retained the same CIA director, George Tenet, who served under Bill Clinton. Tenet gave Bush the same intelligence assessment: that Saddam Hussein, the dictator of Iraq, possessed WMD is a "slam dunk." Indeed, according to The Washington Post's Bob Woodward, Bush was initially skeptical of the intelligence that reached that conclusion. When, on December 21, 2002, Tenet laid out the intelligence purportedly showing the existence of WMD stockpiles, Bush said, "This is the best we've got?"

Never mind that former secretary of State Hillary Clinton, then a New York senator, was particularly adamant about the threat posed by Saddam: "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical- and biological-weapons stock, his missile-delivery capability and his nuclear program. ... If left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

Finally, never mind about then-President Bill Clinton's Persian Gulf expert on the National Security Council, Kenneth Pollack. While he opposed the war's timing, Pollack said "no one doubted" Saddam's stockpiles of WMD: "The intelligence community convinced me and the rest of the Clinton Administration that Saddam had reconstituted his WMD programs following the withdrawal of the U.N. inspectors, in 1998, and was only a matter of years away from having a nuclear weapon. ... Other nations' intelligence services were similarly aligned with U.S. views. ... Germany ... Israel, Russia, Britain, China and even France held positions similar to that of the United States. ... In sum, no one doubted that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction."

"Bush lied, people died" -- or some version of it -- was uttered at the highest levels in the opposition party. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., called W. a "loser" and a "liar." He later apologized -- for the "loser" part. Liar stands. The so-called Lion of the Senate, Ted Kennedy, bellowed, "Before the war, week after week after week after week, we were told lie after lie after lie after lie."

If Bush is a "liar," having relied in good faith on the unanimous opinion of the U.S. intelligence agencies, what do you call President Barack Obama? In building the case for Obamacare, Obama promised: "No matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what."

Did Obama "lie"?

Obama's health care team, according to NBC News, knew that more than half of the people who buy their plans on the individual market would lose their plan: "Millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years."

NBC News' sources estimated that 50 to 80 percent of Americans who buy individual insurance will find their policies cancelled, because those existing policies don't meet Obamacare standards. And for many of those -- now forced to buy new policies -- the price tag will give them "sticker shock."

The Affordable Care Act stated that an insurance policy in effect before March 23, 2010, was to be grandfathered in -- provided insurance companies have made no "significant change" to the plan. But if the plan, say, had a change to the deductible, co-pay or benefits, the plan was no longer eligible to be grandfathered, and the policyholder would have to purchase a new plan.

Obamacare's July 2010 regulations included an estimate that "40 to 67 percent" of customers wouldn't be able to keep their policy because of normal annual turnover in the individual insurance market. And, because many policies will have been changed since the March 23, 2010, date, "the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range." Yet Obama continued to tell Americans that no one would lose their plan or doctor, a promise without which Obamacare would never have passed.

For his part, Obama now says: "What we said was, you can keep it if it hasn't changed since the law passed." A lie is an untruth told with intent to deceive.

Bush didn't "lie."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: 0bamacare; barack0bama; iraqwar; lies
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1 posted on 11/07/2013 6:21:01 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Saddam Hussein was in violation of the agreements that followed the 1991 Gulf War.

What did Momar Gaddafi do to the United States that warranted us toppling him and cheering his torture, abuse, and murder? “WE came! WE saw! HE DIED!!!” - Sec. of State Hillary Clinton


2 posted on 11/07/2013 6:26:13 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Kaslin

Obamcare is definitely Obama’s Iraq.

Obamcare would never had passed if Obama told us we would lose our insurance then have to buy more expensive policies.
He wouldnt have been reelected.

Congress never would have voted for Iraq if Bush told us that he wouldnt find any WMDs, and how much it would cost in lives and $$$, and that he would wait till late 2006 to demand a surge (~ 4 years after invasion) funding from a new Democrat controled House(Pelosi) , and that we would end up walking away from Iraq anyway,


3 posted on 11/07/2013 6:26:48 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: Kaslin
For his part, Obama now says: "What we said was, you can keep it if it hasn't changed since the law passed." A lie is an untruth told with intent to deceive.

Lies by omission are still lies.


4 posted on 11/07/2013 6:27:19 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Kaslin
Never mind that, in building the case for war in Iraq, President George W. Bush relied on the unanimous opinion of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies.

Both 41 and 43 were very good at putting together coalitions. They knew how to fight a war. What to do after the war, not so much. The big mistake was trusting these Intelligence agencies. The ones that missed the Boston bomber even after the Russians warned them twice.

5 posted on 11/07/2013 6:27:35 AM PST by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: Kaslin

George Bush had every Leftist media outlet helping the Democrats stir up hatred against him. Today, every one of those Leftist media mouthpieces is busy 24/7 covering Obama’s butt, as scandal after scandal comes to light. That is the difference.


6 posted on 11/07/2013 6:28:26 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: Kaslin
"Read my lips, no new taxes!"

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan!"

The difference is what, exactly?

7 posted on 11/07/2013 6:28:54 AM PST by Tonytitan
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To: Kaslin

Gotta love selective fact reporting... Bush withheld action in Iraq for over 6 months while the UN screwed around which gave saddam time to shuffle his weapons off to syria, now the UN has finally found them. George did ok....


8 posted on 11/07/2013 6:29:26 AM PST by vet7279
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To: sickoflibs

When you are not permitted to declare “victory” in a war, and have no say in the subsequent rebuilding effort (including the form of government that is established), you can never WIN that war.

Baraq Hussein Ubama declared MISSION ACCOMPLISHED at the United Nations with regards to the so-called Arab (Islamist) Spring. How’s that working out?

He said that no American lives were lost in the toppling of Momar Gaddafi. O’RLY??? Al Qaeda’s on the run. O’RLY??? Nations respect us more (especially after the saber rattling at Syria). O’RLY???


9 posted on 11/07/2013 6:30:28 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Kaslin

Given the weapons recently “found” in Syria, IMO President Bush did NOT lie. The MSM conveniently covered the truth.

OTOH Obamacare has been a baldfaced, Marxist/Fascist, LIE for the purposes of controlled the lives of Americans and stealing their money which was PUSHED by the MSM.


10 posted on 11/07/2013 6:30:43 AM PST by madison10
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To: Tonytitan

There IS a (D)ifference if you look hard enough.


11 posted on 11/07/2013 6:31:26 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Kaslin

Obama used a Lie to deconstruct 1/7th of this nation so he could remake it into a socialist country. He willfully committed this LIE with intent to remake this country.

Anything that GWB said that did not come true was never said in an attempt to intentionally manipulate this country in any way to change it forever.

Obama has made the greatest LIE known in the history of our Republic because of 2 things; 1 - it was intentional, 2 - its impact is so incredibly vast that it will cause a change to our American way of life.

Its ends justifying the means right our of any playbook by Marx or Lenin.


12 posted on 11/07/2013 6:33:46 AM PST by R0CK3T
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To: a fool in paradise

But the world respects us again under Obama, they gave him thar Peace prize. The world has been at peace since early 2009.

LOLOLO


13 posted on 11/07/2013 6:34:10 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: SpeakerToAnimals
The big mistake was trusting these Intelligence agencies

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Bush did not fire George Tenent.

Add Norman Minetta to that also (after 9/11).

14 posted on 11/07/2013 6:34:11 AM PST by Michael.SF. (0bama lied, Stevens died, now 0bama covers up the lies.)
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To: sickoflibs
Last night they made fun of the Naked Emperor at the CMA Awards but I hear he's up for a CYA Award.


15 posted on 11/07/2013 6:35:40 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Kaslin

WMDs and Bush Lied.......This is ‘old’ news... “a BJ doesn’t rise to the level of an ‘impeachable offense’”.......”we’ve been over and over and over this already”, “let’s move on with the business of the American people”, and “what difference does it make at this point?”

What we have now is the ‘current’ business of the American People, and they are being lied to. They are being fleeced, they are being raped, and they are being herded into figurative Obamacare cattlecars. That is what is ‘current.’


16 posted on 11/07/2013 6:36:38 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Tonytitan
"Read my lips, no new taxes!"

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan!"

The difference is what, exactly?

Well, there is one. In Bush's case, he was REALLY saying "Know New Taxes"... so, he was telling the truth! (Although, it's possible he was referring to there being NO Gnu taxes).

I fail to see how 0' was using Clintonspeak in his point about keeping your plan (? unless he was referring to ewe's keeping their plans, but I digress...).

17 posted on 11/07/2013 6:36:42 AM PST by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: a fool in paradise

Progressives are all tyrants at heart. It is the nature of their philosophy.

You don’t see the tyranny clearly until they acquire the means...


18 posted on 11/07/2013 6:37:49 AM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: C210N

LOL!!!


19 posted on 11/07/2013 6:38:39 AM PST by Tonytitan
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To: a fool in paradise

That was a funny skit too!


20 posted on 11/07/2013 6:40:39 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: Kaslin

They both lied. Thanks for asking.


21 posted on 11/07/2013 6:55:19 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Kaslin
Nevermind that the WMDs that Bush talked about were real and are showing up now in Syria. Nevermind the truck convoys we saw taking them there before the invasion.

Think Obama's words will get vindicated in time?

22 posted on 11/07/2013 7:05:22 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: Tonytitan
"Read my lips, no new taxes!"
"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan!"

The difference is what, exactly?

The difference is Bush kept the promise twice and then on the third time he gave in and signed the third tax increase that the democrat congress sent him (after kicking back the first two).

23 posted on 11/07/2013 7:07:26 AM PST by VRWCmember
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To: Tonytitan
The difference is President Bush was forced by the rats who held the majority to renege on his promise not to raise taxes.

That arrogant, lazy, lying pos of the Spite House was not forced by anyone to change his mind. It was he and the rats who forced the unaffordable healthcare down our throats. Also remember the comment of Piglosi. "We must pass the healthcare so we know what's in it.

24 posted on 11/07/2013 7:25:51 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: a fool in paradise

Excellent point


25 posted on 11/07/2013 7:26:57 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: madison10

You said it


26 posted on 11/07/2013 7:28:59 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Romulus
You're full of it. President Bush did not lie and you know it.

So don't come with that typical liberal lame excuse that they both lied. Which is the same lame excuse the rats use when they say "everyone does it"

27 posted on 11/07/2013 7:36:03 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin
"The difference is President Bush was forced by the rats who held the majority to renege on his promise not to raise taxes."

Nice spin here is what H W said

"My opponent won't rule out raising taxes. But I will. And the Congress will push me to raise taxes and I'll say no. And they'll push, and I'll say no, and they'll push again, and I'll say, to them, ‘Read my lips: no new taxes.’"

28 posted on 11/07/2013 7:45:28 AM PST by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: SpeakerToAnimals

It’s not a big leap to trust the agencies on Iraq’s possession of chemical and other proscribed weapons when Iraq had a history of using chemical weapons, declared stocks, were definitively caught hiding further stocks on a roughly annual basis which were tagged, inventoried, sampled, and in large amounts turned over for destruction. The only question was what happened to the stocks which weren’t turned over for destruction and were declared ‘lost or destroyed’ by Iraq itself...in an environment where they were not only not allowing coherent inspections, but in some cases deconstructing and removing entire suspected compounds and the buildings in them.

What kind of idiot assumes they were then complying and did indeed *secretly* destroy the materials they were under under violation of ceasefire supposed to have turned over?


29 posted on 11/07/2013 7:55:25 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Kaslin

Bump


30 posted on 11/07/2013 7:56:03 AM PST by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: sickoflibs

” and that he would wait till late 2006 to demand a surge (~ 4 years after invasion)”

You act like that was an example of incompetence for a President not to do so, when the surge was against the advice of his military advisors and generals. He turned out to be right.


31 posted on 11/07/2013 8:01:13 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Tonytitan

“”Read my lips, no new taxes!”
“If you like your plan, you can keep your plan!”
The difference is what, exactly?

Well, for starters, GHWBush didn’t propose the tax increases, but only acceded to them later under a Dem threat (they controlled both houses of Congress at the time), to cut funding for troops in the field in Desert Shield. He also extracted limits to budget growth, which caused Dem conniptions for years.

Obama on the other hand was being false from the beginning, with solid plans to get private plans cancelled.


32 posted on 11/07/2013 8:08:50 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: txrefugee
George Bush had every Leftist media outlet helping the Democrats stir up hatred against him. Today, every one of those Leftist media mouthpieces is busy 24/7 covering kissing Obama’s butt, as scandal after scandal comes to light. That is the difference.
33 posted on 11/07/2013 8:12:17 AM PST by Foolsgold (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: lepton
RE :”You act like that was an example of incompetence for a President not to do so, when the surge was against the advice of his military advisors and generals. He turned out to be right.”

Generals ????, he was the CinC. It was him who sent his administration out to sell the invasion, so it was his job to make it work.
You posted like Obama talks, that Bush waltzed in late 2006 as a trouble shooter from the outside.

Obama has lots of excuses too:Its all the GOPs fault the website doesnt work
Its all the insurance companies fault that policies are canceled.

Each party (loyalists) LOVES their own excuses and scoffs at the others.

Obamacare is Obama

Bush was warned :"If you break it then you will own it"

34 posted on 11/07/2013 8:16:29 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: lepton
RE :”....when the surge was against the advice of his military advisors and generals.”

Hitler always blamed his generals for his mistakes.
its weak.

35 posted on 11/07/2013 8:19:44 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: sickoflibs

You’re blaming Bush for being successful.

The difference is that I remember last Thursday.


36 posted on 11/07/2013 8:29:32 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: lepton
RE :”You’re blaming Bush for being successful.”

At what?

All those lost and ruined lives and our $$$ wasted and Iraq is a mess regardless. We didnt even get a land base out of it.

I never want another ‘success’ like that disaster again.

37 posted on 11/07/2013 8:32:12 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: sickoflibs

“Generals ????, he was the CinC.”

Perhaps you don’t understand what the President’s job is there. It is usually a bad thing when the President gets involved in tactics....as you note with Hitler, while clearly not understanding what you are saying.


38 posted on 11/07/2013 8:33:25 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: sickoflibs

RE :”You’re blaming Bush for being successful.”
At what?


You know...the subject of this line of conversation: the surge.


39 posted on 11/07/2013 8:37:41 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: lepton
RE :”It is usually a bad thing when the President gets involved in tactics....”

You just claimed that him doing it was good, now you say its bad.

Tactics??? the country went into a civil war thanks to him. It was a disaster

He was warned :”If you break it then you will own it”
\

Obama acts like everyday was his first day as POTUS too
I will clean up this mess, I dont know how it got like this as I wasnt paying attention, but now I will fix it”

40 posted on 11/07/2013 8:39:02 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: lepton
I am blaming him for his mess, as I do with Obama.

Hypocrisy doesn't work for me.

I guess Obama bringing in those tech wizards to the website is his ‘surge’.

Obama has no idea how it got so f...ed up, he is like Bush, "I am here now to save the day'

41 posted on 11/07/2013 8:42:32 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: lepton

When Obamacare went bad Obama claimed it all was a GOP conservative idea that he implemented.

But when Iraq went bad and no WMDs found then Bush Republicans claimed that Iraq invasion was really a Democrat idea, all those Democrats told Bush Iraq has those WMDs and must be stopped now. Look at those 2002 speeches on floor.

Perfect analogy.


42 posted on 11/07/2013 8:47:52 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: Kaslin

He lied all right. My conscience gives me no trouble at all in asserting that. It was always clear to any judicious observer that we were railroaded into that war.

BTW, nothing’s more lame than smearing people as liberal just because you disagree.


43 posted on 11/07/2013 8:48:20 AM PST by Romulus
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To: 5thGenTexan
Never mind that Bush couldn't have lied about WMDs if he wanted to. To lie he would have had to have had proof that WMDs did not exist in Iraq, which he did not. You cannot prove something does not exist, you can only look at evidence and make a judgment call. People can dispute evidence and say he was wrong, but they cannot say he lied.
44 posted on 11/07/2013 9:03:01 AM PST by Old North State
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To: sickoflibs

“You just claimed that him doing it was good, now you say its bad.”

Now you’re hitting willfully obtuse.

It is usually a bad thing...and thus not something to be regularly done. It turned out well, and thus ended up being a good thing despite the general history of such things.


45 posted on 11/07/2013 9:19:01 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: sickoflibs

“But when Iraq went bad and no WMDs found then Bush Republicans claimed that Iraq invasion was really a Democrat idea, all those Democrats told Bush Iraq has those WMDs and must be stopped now. Look at those 2002 speeches on floor.”

Except that’s not the argument that was being made. The argument was that Bush couldn’t have made it up because the information was there before he was even President, and further, was so blatantly obvious that even the Dems were advocating it. The act of bringing it up again was to address the Dems who were then beginning to claim they had no idea until ‘Bush misled them’. It was pointing out that the Dems had been fully involved in voting to change the Iraq government (Oct 31, 1998) long before Bush even began running for President and could not reasonably claim Bush thrust it upon them unaware - as they were doing. They were also fully aware that Iraq did indeed have WMDs, which they began pretending never existed...despite later condemning him for not having the military sufficiently secure materials when it suited them to alter history again in 2006.

That is not remotely like, and functionally the opposite of blaming Republicans for a bill none of them voted for, and for which the Dems had no need to and did not compromise their plans for, and for which they funded and implemented without any Republican input.


46 posted on 11/07/2013 9:32:55 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Kaslin

When a Republican misspeaks, he lies; when a Democrat lies, he misspeaks.


47 posted on 11/07/2013 9:37:37 AM PST by kevao (Biblical Jesus: Give your money to the poor. Socialist Jesus: Give your neighbor's money to the poor)
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To: lepton
But Democrats Forced Bush to invade Iraq ”(pssst after he showed them all that great’evidence’ te hee )

Nailing you on the similarities between GOP and Dem excuses inspired this:

Obama's and Democrat's best excuses for Obamacare Problems (please add your favorites)

48 posted on 11/07/2013 9:42:21 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOP warnings')
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To: Kaslin
Bush didn't "lie."

The author fails to mention that both Clintons, Kerry, Kennedy and all Democrat leaders were saying in the 90's that Saddam had WMD's.

Bush in no way, shape or form lied yet he was slandered perhaps more than any politician in a century.

I've seen this being written about more lately; I hope this is the time when Bush starts to be vindicated.

49 posted on 11/07/2013 9:54:42 AM PST by what's up
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To: sickoflibs

The only winner of the Iraq war was Iran.


50 posted on 11/07/2013 9:56:23 AM PST by dfwgator
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