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‘Stand Your Ground’ and Warning Shots Survive Hearing (Florida, anti-gun forces lose again)
The Root ^ | November 8, 2013 | Stephen A. Crockett, Jr.

Posted on 11/08/2013 7:04:06 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Grace Miranda and other supporters of Trayvon Martin rally in front of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio’s office to ask him to retract his support for the state’s “Stand your ground” gun law in April 2012.

A panel of Florida lawmakers shot down a proposal to repeal the state's "Stand your ground" law but approved an amendment to allow immunity for those who fire a warning shot, the Tampa Bay Times reports.

Nearly 300 people attended the vote to give their opinion on the controversial law that has been in the national spotlight and under intense scrutiny since the shooting of Trayvon Martin and the 20-year prison sentence for Marissa Alexander, a battered wife who fired a single warning shot to scare her abusive husband.

The hearing, which was held before the House Criminal Justice Subcommittee, lasted five hours, the Tampa Bay Times reports.

Rep. Alan Williams, a Tallahassee Democrat, said his push to repeal "Stand your ground" was rooted in trying to make sure "we keep our streets and our communities and our neighborhoods safe," the Tampa Bay Times reports. "We have had a number of cases that have shown us over and over that the law as adopted in 2005 isn't working," Williams said.

The committee rejected the repeal bill in a 2-11 vote.

Democratic Rep. Katie Edwards, a supporter of the law, said, "The people I represent, the people we represent, need not be required, or have imposed upon them, a duty to retreat ... I won't turn my back on responsible self-defense laws."

While the committee upheld "Stand your ground," it did file a separate bill after Alexander's sentencing that would ensure people who fired a warning shot would not be subject to the minimum-mandatory sentencing.....

(Excerpt) Read more at theroot.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; blacks; democrats; florida; marissaalexander; selfdefense; standyourground; trayvon; zimmerman

1 posted on 11/08/2013 7:04:06 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The People of the State of Florida have trumped a thugee’s mama.

I sincerely hope that all of those pictured, have that great Olympic-sprinting recorded response time of the militarized cops, maybe work for them. If not, don’t blame the rest of the population of Florida, and if you survive, MOVE!!!


2 posted on 11/08/2013 7:09:16 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The People of the State of Florida have trumped a thugee’s mama.

I sincerely hope that all of those pictured, have that great Olympic-sprinting recorded response time of the militarized cops, maybe work for them. If not, don’t blame the rest of the population of Florida, and if you survive, MOVE!!!


3 posted on 11/08/2013 7:09:36 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t believe Mossad Ayoob has ever approved warning shots.

That gun is supposed to be used as a last resort/lethal force measure, not a show of force.


4 posted on 11/08/2013 7:11:38 PM PST by Antihero101607
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Ahh, the usual suspects are out and about... the perpetually aggrieved and outraged...

but...

We win another one.


5 posted on 11/08/2013 7:17:52 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Trying to make sure “we keep our streets and our communities and our neighborhoods safe” for barbarian children.


6 posted on 11/08/2013 7:18:22 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Antihero101607

VP Biden recommends warning shots.


7 posted on 11/08/2013 7:19:01 PM PST by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: umgud

That’s correct, straight from that clowns face hole


8 posted on 11/08/2013 7:29:43 PM PST by snappahead (if your gonna be dumb, you better be tough.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

there’s a criminal who has ill intent towards you.

you have no idea.

he or she is armed. so are you.

why is the burden to retreat only placed on the person with no ill will, who is about to be ambushed or surprised walking into their home, on top of figuring out what the hell is going on, to try to retreat before defending themselves?

assinine.


9 posted on 11/08/2013 8:27:21 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: NFHale

[We win another one.]

Great news!!!


10 posted on 11/08/2013 8:41:14 PM PST by Islander2
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To: Antihero101607

When the Police ask, remember that you did not fire a warning shot. You were trying to shoot the guy and you missed.


11 posted on 11/08/2013 11:30:53 PM PST by Haiku Guy (Health Care Haiku: If You Have a Right / To the Labor I Provide / I Must Be Your Slave)
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To: Antihero101607

The first warning shot goes to the head of the threat. The second and third warning shots to center of mass. The remaining ten warning shots go to the center of mass of any associated perps. Reload and assess the situation for safe passage, using cover.

Only draw weapon if in fear for your life and it becomes necessary to defend with lethal force.


12 posted on 11/09/2013 3:21:40 AM PST by FlyingEagle
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Warning Shots?

They are deadly, never fire a gun without a clearly defined target, you might as well shout, I have a gun and good luck with that.

In most instances when using a weapon for self defense the target will be from one to ten feet away... Think About It!

Warning shots are almost as stupid as Joe Biden.


13 posted on 11/09/2013 3:22:57 AM PST by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: Antihero101607
I don’t believe Mossad Ayoob has ever approved warning shots. That gun is supposed to be used as a last resort/lethal force measure, not a show of force.

While basically correct, there are times when a warning shot might be appropriate and end up defusing the situation without loss of life. Situational awareness is key - some folks will remain hostile and belligerent even if they see that you are armed, but will do a quick rethink at the very loud and distinct sound of the explosion propelling a chunk of metal out of the "prop". Without such immunities as FL implemented, you can be jailed for trying to keep from killing someone while staying free for putting a hole in them. I prefer the choice of how to proceed.

14 posted on 11/09/2013 4:15:17 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

― Aleksandra Solzhenitsyn

.

15 posted on 11/09/2013 5:08:43 AM PST by Elle Bee
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To: Islander2

Every one we win is one less the other side gets, and sets them back further.

Revel in it.


16 posted on 11/09/2013 5:26:50 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Good!! So much for Obama’s son, thug, gangsta, criminal, druggie, Trayvon Martin!!! Bye....Obamabots!!!


17 posted on 11/09/2013 5:38:04 AM PST by JLAGRAYFOX ( My only objective is to defeat and destroy Obama & his Democrat Party, politically!!!.)
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To: Antihero101607; 2ndDivisionVet
I don’t believe Mossad Ayoob has ever approved warning shots.

That gun is supposed to be used as a last resort/lethal force measure, not a show of force.

Agreed. I've had some on this board disagree with me, but to me Ayoob is the zen master of defending yourself without having to spend time in jail.

18 posted on 11/09/2013 5:42:07 AM PST by Hardastarboard (You can keep your doctor - if you lock him in your basement.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Anti-gun” is a poor soundbite, “Anti-self defense” is much better.


19 posted on 11/09/2013 7:37:34 AM PST by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: Elle Bee

I’ve read that quote a thousand times, and then I realize that Conservatism Inc. is nothing but a money grubbing racket that peddles the useless tactic of screeching at Obama 24/7 and never taking an axe handle to the knees of his enablers and voters.


20 posted on 11/09/2013 7:44:36 AM PST by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: junta
it must warm your heart to hear Mitch McConnell parrot your sentiments

.

21 posted on 11/09/2013 11:13:01 AM PST by Elle Bee
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To: Elle Bee

Go screech at Obama and let his voters and enablers off the hook, FAIL. And send the clowns money so they can screech louder.


22 posted on 11/09/2013 2:06:04 PM PST by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: trebb
Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Know your target and what lies beyond it.

If you're not shooting with intent to hit.....exactly what is your target?

Warning shots are reckless.

You either fired your weapon because there was an immediate need to neutralize the threat.....or you fired in negligence.

23 posted on 11/09/2013 10:36:26 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Repeat Offender
Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. Know your target and what lies beyond it. If you're not shooting with intent to hit.....exactly what is your target? Warning shots are reckless. You either fired your weapon because there was an immediate need to neutralize the threat.....or you fired in negligence.

Agree 100% with the first 2.

What says a target 9intended impact) HAS to be a person?

Warning shots can be reckless, but like any other, if there is a safe receptacle available so a human doesn't need to die, they may occasionally have value.

A person doesn't have to have his hands around your neck to be a threat - situations vary and there may be a case where you are basically trapped, but the perp hasn't gotten close enough to inflict harm with whatever weapon. Under you precepts, no matter where or what, if it's obvious you can't escape, then shooting to kill is the only option. In a Black/White world that may be the case. In a million-shade-of-gray world, one has the opportunity to assess each situation separately. If I have to kill, I will not hesitate. If I have an opportunity to not kill, I will assess the ramifications. There are billions of potential situations. While a great many may dictate shooting to kill as the most reasonable option, 100% is never a standard when humans are involved.

I'm curious - what is your background that you feel qualified to state your "rules" as 100% certain 100% of the time?

24 posted on 11/10/2013 2:36:06 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Rubio should have his staff throw firecrackers at them from the roof.


25 posted on 11/10/2013 3:25:46 AM PST by MaxMax (Pay Attention and you'll be pissed off too! FIRE BOEHNER, NOW!)
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To: trebb
I'm curious - what is your background that you feel qualified to state your "rules" as 100% certain 100% of the time?

Marine. Infantry. With 4 combat tours. Purple Heart Recipient. Navy/Marine Corps Commendation with Combat 'V' recipient.

I'm not a keyboard combatant theorizing about what I "think." Been there, done that, took lives, saved lives, got the tshirts......I lived those situations day in and day out in the streets. In fact I've lived in those situations more than I've spent physical time in the last three houses I've had.

Today marks the 9th anniversary of the first time I ever had to fire a shot in anger......Operation Phantom Fury/Al Fajr Fallujah, Iraq.

Under you precepts, no matter where or what, if it's obvious you can't escape, then shooting to kill is the only option.

There are plenty of things you can do before you pull that trigger. But if it comes down to pulling a trigger with a lethal round in the chamber - it is to kill. Period. Guns chambered with lethal rounds are fired (lethal force) when lethal force is a necessity.

It's called Escalation Of Force.

But, you seem to think otherwise.

So tell me smart guy.........where is your warning shot going? Into who's car? Who is in the car? Can your round go through and through the care? Is someone on the other side of that car? Can your round ricochet off that car? Are sure?

What wall is your "warning shot" going to hit? Can your round penetrate that wall? Are sure? Who is behind that wall? Are you sure? How did you see that, xray vision?

What innocent bystander is it going to be hit?. Are you sure?

Ok, you shot in the air, where is that bullet coming down? Who/what is in the vicinity? Are you sure?

You are allegedly so in fear for your life and safety that you fired into the ceiling, will your aggressor seize the opportunity to shoot/harm you while you're brandishing a firearm? Are you sure? Bet your life on it? Bet your loved ones' lives on it?

Warning shots show no other purpose but to warn everyone around you that you are reckless and shouldn't handle firearms.

But please, by all means educate me, as you are obviously and demonstrably an expert.

26 posted on 11/10/2013 9:19:32 AM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Stevie Wonder will henceforth refuse to drink orange juice.


27 posted on 11/10/2013 9:22:45 AM PST by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: Repeat Offender
So tell me smart guy.........where is your warning shot going? Into who's car? Who is in the car? Can your round go through and through the care? Is someone on the other side of that car? Can your round ricochet off that car? Are sure? What wall is your "warning shot" going to hit? Can your round penetrate that wall? Are sure? Who is behind that wall? Are you sure? How did you see that, xray vision? What innocent bystander is it going to be hit?. Are you sure? Ok, you shot in the air, where is that bullet coming down? Who/what is in the vicinity? Are you sure? You are allegedly so in fear for your life and safety that you fired into the ceiling, will your aggressor seize the opportunity to shoot/harm you while you're brandishing a firearm? Are you sure? Bet your life on it? Bet your loved ones' lives on it? Warning shots show no other purpose but to warn everyone around you that you are reckless and shouldn't handle firearms. But please, by all means educate me, as you are obviously and demonstrably an expert.

Your combat experience should mean you have a superb sense of situational awareness - God Bless for your service ( I spent 24 years in uniform in AF and was never sent in harms way).

If no safe (I believe I used the word "receptacle" earlier) place to put it, then no warning round. Not as young and chipper at 61 as I once was - I'm not as prone to wait until there is absolutely no way to deescalate as I once was.

I'm not prone to "brandishing a firearm" and I'm aware enough of my situation that I can generally have a good idea if I need to be prepared to defend myself - the first step of which is to try to get some distance. I'm very grounded in reality and have had a couple tense moments where I was prepared to take my weapon in my hand, but managed to defuse without having to let anyone know I was armed - neither of those situations would have allowed a warning shot so the desire to defuse was great for everyone's safety.

I appreciate the combat experience, hate the ROE you guys have to suffer, but I will go to my grave maintaining that there are situations where a warning shot may be appropriate and safe. While my general rule is very like what you lay out, I believe that there are situations where it's not necessary to wait until shooting to kill is the only option left. Neither me or my wife will hesitate to do what's needed to preserve our life and I have taught her more along your lines because I want to give her the best chance to survive without having to do any extra thinking. Where I may put one or two rounds on target, she is to follow the body mass down until it's time to insert a spare mag.

My prayer is that neither of us has to kill another human being but to be prepared to do so if it ever forces itself on us. I am always more polite when armed (every place but the base I work on) and even willing to let myself "lose face" if it will serve to defuse a situation.

At any rate - I thank you for your concern, but your experience (even killing) doesn't make you the world's expert on across the board situations. You may have used weapons "in anger", but I have used them longer and been around them longer. Learned to aim at age of 4 (Daisy BB gun with saw horse to support the barrel) in '56 and grew up as a NRA/Shooting range brat. Field stripped a 1911 at 10 in '62 (needed to be strong enough to defeat the springs and clean it before I was allowed to shoot it), and watched my father use a gun to stop an intended robber without having to fire the shot. He explained what went down, the potential for harm to us, what his options were as he saw them, and why he made the decision he did instead of killing the guy. He also explained that another 6 inches of closure would have made for a different outcome.

I know myself and I'm not prone to panic (If I have a strong reaction it's after the fact instead of during). I'm sure you trust yourself in situations where you don't trust others - you're not the only one that feels that way, and not the only one who has personal "creds" to validate that sense of ability.

I hope I managed to keep from throwing out any insults. If I did, I have confidence that, willing to toss them, you are also able to absorb them without emotional damage.

We live in a world of a thousand shades of gray. Black and white are only idealistic concepts when humans are put in the mix. Your question about where my warning shot would go indicates you are attempting to live in a black and white world where only familiar/accepted options exist. I used to live there but time out of the womb keeps on changing and tweaking the philosophies of life and living. Hell, the last 12 years of FR have affected me.

Stay safe Warrior and thanks again for your service.

28 posted on 11/11/2013 3:12:15 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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