Skip to comments.Does The Book of Job Say that Satan Visits Heaven?
Posted on 11/09/2013 9:17:25 AM PST by ComtedeMaistre
One of the strangest parts of the Bible is Job 1:6
[When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. The Lord asked him, What have you been doing?]
This part suggests that Satan visits heaven. Satan, of course, began as a full time resident of heaven, before he was expelled from heaven. It seems that he retains visiting rights.
It is this passage that led Mormons to teach that Jesus and Satan started out as brothers. We do know that Lucifer/Satan was the most senior of the Angels, with more seniority than Arch-Angels Gabriel and Michael. He was effectively Number 3 in heaven after God and Jesus.
Can any freeper Bible experts explain what Satan was doing in heaven, when unrepentant human sinners whose sins are much less than Satan's, are going straight to hell without a chance of seeing heaven?
Satan started out as an angel right?
He is the accuser and he (thinks he) was taunting God
Nevermind, I see you noted that.
You have to read the whole bible to find out.
Satan, was one of God’s Angels. PRIDE made him think he could become as great as (or greater) than God.
He was cast out of heaven, but until the that time, he and the angels that followed him, were allowed in heaven. They are not there now.
They are chained (restrained) now, except for Satan who goes back and forth in the earth, looking for who he can destroy.
God knows things before they happen not because he CAUSES them to happen, but because he can see them just as you can see things as you look left and right. God can see the past and future as easily was we can look around the room.
Tehre is a lot about Angels and Man, and free will and who is to blame that I am leaving out here.
I hope you find your answers. They are there.
The whole story of angels going into rebellion does suggest that angels are not automatons, they have opinions, minds, wills of their own.
My understanding is Heaven is the perfect realm of God or where everything happens according to his will. Hell is the realm completely void of God and his will. Everywhere else like Earth or even other spiritual realms are middle ground.
God is present in middle ground, but it of course is far from perfect and it is filled with many evil characters. Thus the story takes place somewhere there (not heaven)—that is, if you were to read the story literally.
They may have been Chained there at one time. Not now.
Satan's demons also roam the earth too.
Actually, the story of the angels going into rebellion comes from the book of Enoch, not from the Bible.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, / And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. / And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. / And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.That event has to have been after the events in Job. The brethren there most definitely includes Christians as well as the prior prophets and patriarchs of the Old Testament. Also note that the evil spirits were cast down into the earth . . . as for hell, remember that there are four different words in the Bible that were translated as hell but have different meanings.
How do you know for certain that Satan was not already tagged as a rebellious angel before being cast out?
But was allowed to remain until God did what he did to him in his own time frame.
Satan could have been allowed to do both for a time: go to and fro upon the earth AND appear in a heavenly council. God would have had to allow that. And if God did, then he had a reason for it that WE would not be able to explain. Only God would know. His knowledge is infinite and we are not in possession of but a tiny part of it. Much is not told to us.
Judas Iscariot was already predicted to betray Jesus but was nevertheless allowed to remain as an apostle. Judas then went out and hanged himself.
God has a sense of timing. He sometimes strikes people dead on the spot and sometimes allows their evil to come to fruition over time.
God knew Jesus was coming to earth and would preach, minister and die to be raised to life.
He knew it from before the beginning of time, but in earthly years look how long he took to work it out.
Never try to force God into a box that we have created that we think fits God.
The order in which events appear to happen in scripture does not always have to reflect their timing in God’s terms. To God, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day.
Or, it could have been timed as it appears to us, that first Satan was cast out, then returned during Job’s story. But again, if God allowed him to appear after casting him out, it was a one time event to make a point, and it was at God’s allowance, not a privilege that Satan still possessed.
Ergo, Satan may have limited access to some part of Heaven if and when called by God to appear before Him.
Secondly, an emissary (a lawyer, if you will) between God and Satan may have been appointed and the account in Job might have been that person and not Satan himself.
You said: “It seems that he retains visiting rights”
Meant in levity I’m sure, but Satan has no visiting “RIGHTS”. If this does take place in heaven, it’s only because God ALLOWED it, not because Satan has any “right” to be there.
Force is always at the heart of any liberal-utopian initiative.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
No, it is a story on one man offering up his suffering to God.
BTW, God threw Satan and his angels out of heaven. I don’t think he will invite them (or even allow them) to re-enter.
They occupy hell and God is happy with that.
The devil really is out to create dystopia.
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.and then confirmed in the Book of Enoch.
I applaud you on your mention of the Book of Enoch. Heavy duty stuff, old Enoch.
I like that.
For later read.
Satan was a fallen angel, he was booted from heaven
This puts the lie to the idea “Once saved, always saved”
If Obama can be elected POTUS, then I guess anything is possible.
“They may have been Chained there at one time.... Not now.....Satan’s demons also roam the earth too.”
Have to agree with you.....How else could a man have been possessed by “Legions” of demons when Christ sent them into the swine...Even the Apostles cast out devils in the book of Acts......Demon possession is very real, have a family member into witchcraft and you can see the spirit in his eyes......Very evil and had to cut contact almost 2 years now....Hates anything or anyone Christian.....
Obviously, they have it (i.e. the capacity to disobey God)...otherwise, they would be nothing more than a bunch of robots.
Well, you’re right.
I was thinking of the stories about the wars that took place between the angels in heaven.
I think a lot of modern beliefs and images about Satan arises from writings from Milton also.
Yes, but Jesus is never described as a created being/angel; which is why Mormons are dead wrong on that.
Satan was and is an angelic being who went into rebellion and was cast down to earth. Our concept of “Heaven” has been heavily Hellenized to the point that people believe it to be angels floating on clouds playing harps or something. Not so.
Jesus Christ went into Hell for three days, Sheol actually, and led the righteous dead out of captivity but also had dealingS with the angels bound there in the furthest depths, from whence our notions of Hell arose. And, Satan partook in an angelic council before the Lord.
Much of popular perception is not altogether Biblical. The division between realms never was shown as being altogether absolute.
I doubt demons are restrained as we see their effects today.(They hold public office in our government!) Further, did not Christ cast out demons which would hardly be possible if chained in hell. Just a thought.
You are not looking at the whole thing......it is an interview -- God is talking with Satan -- not in heaven.....remember that God can be anywhere. Please don't limit him.
7The LORD said to the satan, “Where have you been?” Then the satan answered the LORD and said,d “Roaming the earth and patrolling it.”
11e But now put forth your hand and touch all that he has, and surely he will curse you to your face.”
12The LORD said to the satan, “Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on him.” So the satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Here is the footnote for verse 6
* [1:6] Sons of God: members of the divine council; see Gn 6:1–4; Dt 32:8; Ps 82:1. The satan: lit., “adversary” (as in 1 Kgs 11:14). Here a member of the heavenly court, “the accuser” (Zec 3:1). In later biblical traditions this character will be developed as the devil (Gk. diabolos, “adversary”).
When was he saved?
The Hereafter may arrived before I finished my study of said Hereafter.;-)
This needs to be on the Religion Forum. It got posted on the new forum.
There is a mention in Revelation also.
“It is this passage that led Mormons to teach that Jesus and Satan started out as brothers.
Sorry, but the book of mormon was started by a guy looking to get sexual favors and power. Attempting to rationalize his writings against Christianity is insulting, offensive to Christianity, and illogical.
A lot of the Old Testament doesn’t make sense when you take it literally, because so much of it is missing. Over the centuries many important parts were edited out and lost forever by elitist church elders who took it upon themselves to decide that mankind should not know certain things that were revealed in the original Bible. The modern-day bible is just a puzzle with a lot of missing pieces.
That’s one way to look at it, ultimate betrayal is another.
God says he will never desert us, but the story tells another tale.
So, is the story a parable, or a historical event?
Of interest is the fact that no one is certain who wrote the book of Job.
“Sorry, but the book of mormon was started by a guy looking to get sexual favors and power. Attempting to rationalize his writings against Christianity is insulting, offensive to Christianity, and illogical.”
Same with the Church of England and old Henry VIII wanting sexual favors and power, right?
“Same with the Church of England “
Without question. What’s your point since that organization wasn’t being used to make the point?
One of the mysteries of existence is the nature of time. Time is one of the many boxes in which human kind attempts to put God. We are so material and so linear the difficulty to imagine One unconstrained by Time/space is overwhelming. Only those who have thought long and deeply about such things like learned philosophers and theoretical physicists have even scratched the surface of understanding. It may be that time is simply a construct of humanity to organize an orderly progression of events so that our limitations can ascribe meaning to existence. Perhaps for God all things exist/occur simultaneously. His statement “ a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day” may give insight into this. Also the many biblical statements attributing future completed events as if they were currently happening or had already happened. “For unto us a Son IS born...” “Beloved NOW are we the Sons of God but it does not yet appear what we SHALL be...” There is an order of magnitude in difference between God and humankind that is greater than that between an ameoba and a human. While we can glimpse tiny flashes of understanding and can grow in our awarenesses to believe we have the capacity to understand His nature makes for a limited God indeed.
Satan has not yet been cast out of Heaven. This will be done by Michael the archangel at the same time the antichrist is revealed when he defiles the yet-to-be-built third temple.
Satan currently has access to Heaven in order to accuse God’s saints (i.e. believers) before the throne of God. See Revelation 12.
Christ is continuously interceding on behlalf of His saints (i.e. believers). See Romans 8:34.
“It is this passage that led Mormons to teach that Jesus and Satan started out as brothers. We do know that Lucifer/Satan was the most senior of the Angels, with more seniority than Arch-Angels Gabriel and Michael. He was effectively Number 3 in heaven after God and Jesus.”
Wrong. The Devil and Jesus are not on the same level. The Devil is a created finite being. Jesus is the Son of God, diety, Creator of all things (including the Devil).
The Creator is too big to be contained by the entire universe. He is aware of the smallest detail, such as the number of hairs on our head, and whenever a single bird falls to the ground. He knows when, where and what type of bird it was. But He also is fully aware and in control of the largest things in the universe. He has names for every star and planet and other heavenly body.
Satan thought he could run the universe and be God, and do a better or equal job as God. To this, God just laughs. Satan cannot even count the number of stars in heaven. If he could, God said He would break His promise to preserve and protect Israel. If Satan could even just count them, God could verify the number because He knows the number and the unique name and purpose He has given to each one.
Satan cannot even run one tiny little speck in the universe called Earth. He is currently “the god of this world”, and is doing a very poor job of it. There are rules that must be followed. And, yes, Satan does report to God about what he is doing on Earth.
“Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Fathers will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.”
“He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name.”
“blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.”
“Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The Lord of hosts is His name): ‘If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the Lord, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the Lord.’ “
“Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitudeinnumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.”
2 Corinthians 4:4
“whose minds the god of this world has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.”
“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
I am not sure but I vaguely recall a minister stating after Satan brief visit to Heaven regarding Job, Noah’s Flood occur. Flushing out the stench that Satan permeated in the Heavens.
I did not say ALL demons are restrained. They are legion.
Specifically, in the bible, the 1/3 of angels that followed Satan are currently restrained and will be let loose during the end times (as will Satan himself after the 1000 year reign of Christ — which of course is AFTER the Tribulation).
Lesser demons are still running rampant, as is Satan himself who is the “God of this world”.
Archeologists have actually found the location of “UZ” which means “nowhere”...in a pretty remote place in eastern Syria,northern Jordan and extreme western Iraq(quite possible due to the Babylonians taking the Jews captive). (Some argue was southern Israel where the Edomites lived because of verses describing that section as the land of UZ)So another words Job lived in “Nowhere’sville” if you will.( kind of funny is you take it that way) So if the location is real, it is quite plausible that Job may have existed and the book of Job an actual accounting and not a parable.
Maybe his chance to see heaven and face God from time to time is part of his punishment? Show him what he lost?
ROFL That’s true
I’ve heard it said that the fallen angels themselves were bound, but the spirits of their offspring with women roam the earth, as demons. The Ethiopic Enoch backs this up. I don’t necessarily accept or reject this explanation. It’s not counter to the Bible but it’s extraBiblical.