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Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?
New York Times ^ | November 9, 2013 | Daniel Duane

Posted on 11/10/2013 6:57:21 PM PST by nickcarraway

EVERYBODY who knows me knows that I love cycling and that I’m also completely freaked out by it. I got into the sport for middle-aged reasons: fat; creaky knees; the delusional vanity of tight shorts. Registering for a triathlon, I took my first ride in decades. Wind in my hair, smile on my face, I decided instantly that I would bike everywhere like all those beautiful hipster kids on fixies. Within minutes, however, I watched an S.U.V. hit another cyclist, and then I got my own front wheel stuck in a streetcar track, sending me to the pavement.

I made it home alive and bought a stationary bike trainer and workout DVDs with the ex-pro Robbie Ventura guiding virtual rides on Wisconsin farm roads, so that I could sweat safely in my California basement. Then I called my buddy Russ, one of 13,500 daily bike commuters in Washington, D.C. Russ swore cycling was harmless but confessed to awakening recently in a Level 4 trauma center, having been hit by a car he could not remember. Still, Russ insisted I could avoid harm by assuming that every driver was “a mouth-breathing drug addict with a murderous hatred for cyclists.”

The anecdotes mounted: my wife’s childhood friend was cycling with Mom and Dad when a city truck killed her; two of my father’s law partners, maimed. I began noticing “cyclist killed” news articles, like one about Amelie Le Moullac, 24, pedaling inside a bike lane in San Francisco’s SOMA district when a truck turned right and killed her. In these articles, I found a recurring phrase: to quote from The San Francisco Chronicle story about Ms. Le Moullac, “The truck driver stayed at the scene and was not cited.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 11/10/2013 6:57:21 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Bicyclists...probably OK. Motorcyclists no.


2 posted on 11/10/2013 6:58:56 PM PST by prisoner6 ( FREEDOM)
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To: prisoner6

LOL


3 posted on 11/10/2013 7:00:01 PM PST by Lurkina.n.Learnin (This is not just stupid, we're talking Democrat stupid here.)
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To: nickcarraway

I’m a cyclist, a triathlete and a Freeper. It’s damned dangerous out there. You can’t live forever anyway.

Oldplayer


4 posted on 11/10/2013 7:01:00 PM PST by oldplayer
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To: nickcarraway

Not without a permit.


5 posted on 11/10/2013 7:01:27 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: nickcarraway

Of course not.

But that said — bicycles are a lot more dangerous than people seem to understand.

I know of two separate cases where cyclists were run over by semis.

In one, the victim’s guts were strewn out along the pavement amidst a long, wide smear of blood (Saw the photos)

The other, the guy had only enough time to say “Too fast...too fast,” before he died at the scene. (Witness statement)


6 posted on 11/10/2013 7:01:31 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: nickcarraway

Friday, I was treated to wet paint signs on one of our major streets. They had just painted bike lanes.

Yesterday, I was stuck behind a bike rider riding outside the new bike lane.


7 posted on 11/10/2013 7:01:35 PM PST by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: nickcarraway

I can specifically remember being 11 years old, taking my old “Western Flier” bike and riding 7 miles to town, riding around there for a while then 7 miles back to our house in the country.

It was remarkably easy to do. You can really get around on a bike, that is if you are in good physical shape.


8 posted on 11/10/2013 7:01:46 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: cripplecreek

Ah. I didn’t know there was a season on them!


9 posted on 11/10/2013 7:03:53 PM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: nickcarraway

Recyclists, yes.


10 posted on 11/10/2013 7:03:54 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: nickcarraway

There are many freepers who believe, truly believe, hitting cyclists would be okay.


11 posted on 11/10/2013 7:04:25 PM PST by raybbr (I weep over my sons' future in this Godforsaken country.)
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To: raybbr
There are many freepers who believe, truly believe, hitting cyclists would be okay.

And you can prove that slander, of course.

12 posted on 11/10/2013 7:05:13 PM PST by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: raybbr

not all of them.

Just the ones who don’t seem to think that traffic signs and right-of-ways apply to them.


13 posted on 11/10/2013 7:08:25 PM PST by digger48 (/)
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To: umgud
I was stuck behind a bike rider riding outside the new bike lane

I swear, the idiots in Utardia insist on riding on the damned line between bike lane and car lane when the bike lane is 5 feet wide. As far as I'm concerned, they're begging to slammed with someone's mirror pulling that bullcrap.

14 posted on 11/10/2013 7:08:32 PM PST by SwankyC (Democrats and Republicans agree, govt coercion is OK if it fits your idea of whats OK)
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To: nickcarraway
It's like anything else in this life: you take your chances.

A good friend of mine lost his daughter after she fell off her bicycle hitting her head. Young girl died hours later. Complete "freak accident" kind of thing. Sometimes stuff just happens.

15 posted on 11/10/2013 7:08:43 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: nickcarraway

the scofflaw bike riders....seem to stick in the minds of some people

Those are the people we have to watch out for,

The guys who ride five abreast blocking traffic and refusing to yield by adhusting to a sungle file formation for as long as is necessary to let motorists past are those..”some people” s enemy and they tend to view all cyclists in the same light.

I ride daily and keep my eyes wide open for the multi tasking absent minded driver and the one who are looking for cyclists to intimidate...

be safe


16 posted on 11/10/2013 7:09:25 PM PST by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/ In Glitch We Trust....;o})
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To: nickcarraway
I used to be a big bicyclist, but I gave it up. Today, I am not an aggressive driver, and I try to respect cyclists and give them as much room as I am able.

But, from my perspective, they do not reciprocate. They cut in front of my car, they take up entire lanes, they snarl intersections, and they give me the finger even when I put my left tires over the dividing line.

I think a lot of cyclists have a real attitude problem.

17 posted on 11/10/2013 7:09:47 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: Steely Tom

Just read the replies on any cycling thread.


18 posted on 11/10/2013 7:09:52 PM PST by raybbr (I weep over my sons' future in this Godforsaken country.)
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To: nickcarraway

On the last Friday of every month in San Francisco?

Helllll Yeah....


19 posted on 11/10/2013 7:09:56 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Steely Tom

See post #14. Just sayin’ .....


20 posted on 11/10/2013 7:10:09 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Steely Tom; raybbr

No, he’s right. All cyclists should be killed!!!

(yes, I’m being sarcastic. I don’t think cyclists should be killed. . . just maimed)


21 posted on 11/10/2013 7:10:39 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: nickcarraway

No, but it should be sometimes.


22 posted on 11/10/2013 7:11:06 PM PST by Don W (Know what you WANT. Know what you NEED. Know the DIFFERENCE!)
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To: BenLurkin
The other, the guy had only enough time to say “Too fast...too fast,” before he died at the scene. (Witness statement)

There was a story in the Milwaukee Sentinel a couple years ago about a cyclist who was killed by a car, after speeding down a steep hill. It was clearly the rider's fault but his cycling buddies insisted that their friend would never speed down a hill and disobey traffic signs, etc. Almost sounds like your quote.

23 posted on 11/10/2013 7:11:20 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: nickcarraway

I stick to bike paths in the linear parks. A sign saying that bicyclists can take the whole lane won’t do you much good if you get run over by someone chatting on their cell phone.


24 posted on 11/10/2013 7:13:04 PM PST by PAR35
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To: nickcarraway

I was a cyclist (racer) for about 20 years, and owned a bike shop for 10, worked in the business from ‘75 to ‘96. Three good friends have been killed while riding.

You can’t presume that you have the same rights as cars, maybe by law, but physics doesn’t agree. Ride so that the cagers don’t have to make a conscious effort to avoid you.


25 posted on 11/10/2013 7:13:12 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: usconservative

When I was in junior high school I was on the 7th grade football team. One day my best friend and I were just riding around on our bikes.

For some reason, (this was around 1958) we were wearing our “Riddells”. My friend was trying to do some stunt and fell off his bike. He landed on his head and cracked the helmet. He was only shaken up but I suspect he would have been killed if not wearing the helmet.

I can’t recall either of us ever wearing our helmets at any other time.


26 posted on 11/10/2013 7:14:54 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: All

I posted this a few weeks ago..

No, I don’t think it’s open season on bikers, I used to ride a lot myself but there a reputation out there that has been earned. On the road you can easily tell which category the cyclist falls into.

1- Casual bikers usually don’t wear the gear, stay to the right, stay off roads that are known to be dangerous and high risk and yield the right of way to the large steel and plastic vehicles that weighs about three tons more.

2- dedicated bikers wear the gear, understand the dangers, respect the vehicles, respect the rules of the road and ride when traffic is light and try to find safe roads and bike trails.

3- entitled toolbags pay $5000 for a bike, pay $5000 for the outfit, ride in the middle of the road, flip off cars, don’t yield the right of way, blow through stop signs, red lights, ride in heavy traffic, ride on known dangerous roads, zip around cars in traffic and expect everyone else around them to thank them for riding. They expect kids and walkers to get the eff out of their way, while they ride on sidewalks and blame everyone else for the consequences of their actions. They also ride side-by-side in packs so they can force responsible drivers to move as slowly as they do and they all think they are Lance Armstrong and have a collective superiority complex that is until they’re wheels up in a ditch because some redneck didn’t feel like waiting while they tried to duplicate Lance’s Alps climb time.


27 posted on 11/10/2013 7:16:11 PM PST by newnhdad (Our new motto: USA, it was fun while it lasted.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
But, from my perspective, they do not reciprocate. They cut in front of my car, they take up entire lanes, they snarl intersections, and they give me the finger even when I put my left tires over the dividing line.

I used to be a pretty avid cyclist ... a very long time ago ... and would log anywhere from 30-70 miles on a weekend on my Trek 700. Yes, I've seen alot of "jerk" cyclists, even more "jerk" motorcyclists (and yes, I have one of those.)

Here's the thing with me: I frankly don't give a damn' how big a jerk someone is on a bike or a motorcycle. If you pull in front of me while I'm driving my big gas guzzling SUV there's only one thing that's going to happen: Me taking my foot off the gas and covering the brake pedal.

The last thing I want is to be the "bigger jerk" and not leave them room enough to fall off their bicycle/motorcycle without my running them over and killing them.

I just don't want that on my conscience, no matter how big of a jerk someone else is on their bicycle or motorcycle.

28 posted on 11/10/2013 7:16:23 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: nickcarraway

Tourists and locals riding bicycles on the sidewalks in West Los Angeles - particularly the beach towns of Venice & Santa Monica has become epidemic. They wreak havoc on the pedestrians while the long established bike paths 25 feet away go empty.


29 posted on 11/10/2013 7:18:09 PM PST by CreviceTool (A Good Samaritan with a handgun saved my life...)
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To: usconservative

Oh, I agree with that completely. I would say that there are quite a few bicyclists who have not been run over simply because a lot of drivers have done the right thing and hit the brakes when the cyclist did something stupid.


30 posted on 11/10/2013 7:21:24 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: nickcarraway

“...the delusional vanity of tight shorts.” For this he should probably be killed.

Just kidding, I know it is a serious article.

I really don’t understand how people bike to work, unless it is a very short distance. Do they have showers at their job? Is their biking attire OK at work?

BTW, the cop who yelled at the people holding a memorial ceremony sounds like a complete jerk.


31 posted on 11/10/2013 7:22:41 PM PST by jocon307
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To: BenLurkin

well,thank you for sharing.


32 posted on 11/10/2013 7:23:23 PM PST by jocon307
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To: oldplayer

Tell me about it.

I use to ride my ten speed up and down Highway 9 between Bolder Creek and Santa Cruz, when I was in High School.

I was once cocked by a driver who matched my speed ten and declared I was going 37 mph. “Huh? Thanks. No big deal...”

Later, in college, I rode between Scotts Valley to Capitola and north Santa Cruz.

I always assumed automobile drivers couldn’t see me, were annoyed by my presence and just plain scared I might get in their way.

That’s why I always rode hard and fast and looked for opportunities to allow them them to pass, as I hugged the road dangerously close to the side of the road.

If I could ride faster than them then I usually had no problem, except foo. that hair pin turn in Felton which could get slippery wet.

When riding on city streets I assumed I was invisible and rode defensively .

What am I gonna do? Fight a 2,500 # battering ram?

Rather live, in peace and good health.

What goes on up in the city is some neauvo arrogance that seeks it own apogee of self importance and imperils everyone.

To those jack asses I say FU.


33 posted on 11/10/2013 7:23:55 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I agree with your observations and your POV. I don’t want to hit anybody with my truck but a lot of bicyclists make it a real challenge to avoid hitting them. Especially trying on two lane mountain roads.


34 posted on 11/10/2013 7:26:04 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: raybbr

Bicycles are dangerous when the cyclist mixes with traffic, and assumes that he is seen.

Take a basketball, and a tennis ball hold them together with the tennis ball on top, and drop them together from about shoulder height. The momentum of the basketball is transferred nearly elastically to the tennis ball. The tennis ball takes off.

Of course when (not if) car strikes cyclist, the collision is not elastic, rather it deforms the cyclist a lot, and in a painful way. Cyclists should be very careful, as they are at risk of death. Drivers should be very careful, as they could kill a loved one, a friend.


35 posted on 11/10/2013 7:26:36 PM PST by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar will soon be repeated.)
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To: usconservative; raybbr

I guess on a forum words are all we have to go on, and you only need one case for proof.

You’ve got a valid point, it would seem.


36 posted on 11/10/2013 7:27:01 PM PST by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Ride so that the cagers don’t have to make a conscious effort to avoid you.

I ride on sidewalks and ALWAYS against traffic when on the street. There are so many brain dead drivers out there I need to look at their faces as they approach me.

37 posted on 11/10/2013 7:28:34 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Play the 'Knockout Game' with someone owning a 9mm and you get what you deserve)
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Bicycling should not be done as a ‘Caravan’.
Bicycling is not a group sport.

Single or occasional double file only!

Yutes ride bicycles safely.
Adults pretending they are cars, never use crosswalks or jump curbs, and have the same rights as other vehicles are the problem.


38 posted on 11/10/2013 7:30:13 PM PST by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
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To: BenLurkin

39 posted on 11/10/2013 7:30:26 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: yarddog

Did you insist on riding in car lanes when there was an alternative? I doubt it.


40 posted on 11/10/2013 7:31:43 PM PST by old-ager
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To: donmeaker
Take a basketball, and a tennis ball hold them together with the tennis ball on top, and drop them together from about shoulder height. The momentum of the basketball is transferred nearly elastically to the tennis ball. The tennis ball takes off.

Of course when (not if) car strikes cyclist, the collision is not elastic, rather it deforms the cyclist a lot, and in a painful way. Cyclists should be very careful, as they are at risk of death. Drivers should be very careful, as they could kill a loved one, a friend.

It's more like "take a basketball and a wet washcloth, hold them together with the washcloth on top, and drop them together from about shoulder height."

I've seen plenty of obnoxious, holier-than-thou bicyclists. I don't desire to kill them, or to see them crash. Sometimes I have to ride behind them at 10 mph as they struggle to make it up a hill because I can't safely pass them.

I chalk it up to "they pay taxes too."

41 posted on 11/10/2013 7:31:46 PM PST by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: nickcarraway

I wouldn’t mind them so much if they didn’t act as if they’re exempt from traffic laws.


42 posted on 11/10/2013 7:32:35 PM PST by Libertarian4Bush (if you voted for obama, I have no respect for you. you're either a loser or a sucker. sorry!)
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To: rabidralph

There was argument as to what he meant — and whether it would be considered a dying declaration and/or admission against interest exception(s) to hearsay. IIRC it was ordered excluded from evidence.


43 posted on 11/10/2013 7:33:09 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: nickcarraway

There are just way too many distracted drivers out there these days. Not to mention the ones under the influence of both legal and illegal substances.


44 posted on 11/10/2013 7:35:11 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: jocon307

Indeed.

I always tell people to think twice before they hop onto their adult version of the children’s toy and pedal into traffic.


45 posted on 11/10/2013 7:35:20 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: umgud

In most states, unless it’s specifically posted, a bike line is a courtesy lane, but bikes are vehicles and are still entitled to use travel lanes if cyclists so desire. That also obligates them to all of the rules of the vehicle code not specifically exempted or specifically changed, including mandatory slowing down/stopping and turning hand signals, yielding right of way to pedestrians and obeying all traffic control signals and signs.


46 posted on 11/10/2013 7:35:43 PM PST by FredZarguna (The sequel, thoroughly pointless, derivative, and boring was like all James Cameron "films.")
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To: Steely Tom

They don’t pay gas taxes while riding their bicycle.


47 posted on 11/10/2013 7:35:56 PM PST by donmeaker (The lessons of Weimar will soon be repeated.)
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To: old-ager

I used to ride facing traffic and if a vehicle approached, I would just get off the highway completely, maybe 10 feet off the road, until it passed.

Those old single speed bikes with the large wide tires were not fast but you could ride them on rough ground.

I simply would not have ridden on a road which had a lot of traffic on it.


48 posted on 11/10/2013 7:36:33 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: nickcarraway

A “level 4” trauma center is just a community hospital. Another writer who can’t be bothered with a few simple facts.


49 posted on 11/10/2013 7:36:38 PM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms....."e)
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To: usconservative

> I just don’t want that on my conscience

Exactly. And the article suggests it should go on your record, too.

The arrogant bird-head finger-flipping cursing faggot lawyer cyclists are putting your conscience, record and peace of mind at risk.


50 posted on 11/10/2013 7:36:40 PM PST by old-ager
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